User Panel
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A lot of the respect my authority types will become even more arrogant now. |
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Another fine example of rights and freedom but only if it is folks they agree with. What part of a pro gun victory is a pro gun victory is confusing some of you? Explain how this is a victory for gun owners.. ...in detail. How is is not? So far all I've read here is a bunch of pissing about how cops get to do something cool and the other 99.5% of the population got pushed aside in some nebulous and unfair way. Then how that .5% is selfish for not doing the work of the other 99%. It looks like nothing more than jealousy and hurt feelings at this point. If that shoe fits...GROW UP! FWIW, if anyone hasn't had a clue until now, 218 has been FAR from an understood quantity in the LE community. It has been far less clear than the CCW laws on the books of most states, so this is a big deal. Additionally, it holds nobody back and in the process presents a case for nation wide concealed carry as a viable option. What better than a bunch of trained and vetted individuals roaming the nation with guns to get the booger eaters and mouth breathers to feel comfortable with the idea of having armed individuals in public? Seriously. |
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What about us lowly peasants? <––- yep, no conceal and carry round these parts... I hear ya, Towely. |
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So when does the push for civi national ccw come? When we get off our collective asses and clean the House and Senate of all the liberty usurpers. |
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What about us lowly peasants? <––- yep, no conceal and carry round these parts... I hear ya, Towely. You guys need to secede from Chicago. I say this as former Illinois resident, born and raised. I miss my state but won't go back due to the stupidity of the gun laws. |
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This came about as the result of an officer fighting criminal charges, right?
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I wonder how they define retired. I wonder how many days one would have to be a cop before one can "retire". I need to find myself a small town that needs a volunteer deputy for a short time for a minimal donation.
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If this is from a federal law, does the CCW extend to federal property? Airports and airliners?
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What about us lowly peasants? National carry for cops was an important first step for us! Now, all we have to do is wait! And wait, and wait, and wait... I'm certain that police will be clamoring for our rights now that theirs are secure, right? Right? http://www.nyworms.com/images/groupcrickets.jpg We'd have been better off to see HR 218 struck down. I was with the FOP lobbying for 218. What are you doing to get it passed for the "lowly peasants"? |
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If this is from a federal law, does the CCW extend to federal property? Airports and airliners? No, it is specifically excluded from those. LE can still carry on airplanes if they have a letter from their chief stating they are on official business. It even applies to federal agents. Some FBI guys I know were denied carrying on the plane when they travelled for vacation. Lame. You guys cry and moan all you want. It's like saying you don't care when a state gives the right back to citizens to CHL or to own class 3. If you don't care about everyone who is a gunslinger, you're a hypocrite. I thank every CHL I stop on a traffic stop, especially if they are carrying their weapon. Doc |
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What about us lowly peasants? National carry for cops was an important first step for us! Now, all we have to do is wait! And wait, and wait, and wait... I'm certain that police will be clamoring for our rights now that theirs are secure, right? Right? http://www.nyworms.com/images/groupcrickets.jpg We'd have been better off to see HR 218 struck down. I was with the FOP lobbying for 218. What are you doing to get it passed for the "lowly peasants"? Show me the bill/petition you wrote and I'll sign it. Doc |
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What about us lowly peasants? National carry for cops was an important first step for us! Now, all we have to do is wait! And wait, and wait, and wait... I'm certain that police will be clamoring for our rights now that theirs are secure, right? Right? http://www.nyworms.com/images/groupcrickets.jpg We'd have been better off to see HR 218 struck down. I was with the FOP lobbying for 218. What are you doing to get it passed for the "lowly peasants"? He's going sit there like a stick in the mud waiting for some one to do his job for him. |
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Anyone have a department I can be hired by as an officer, for no salary and no benefits, and then retire from without having my benefits vest? I would think that department could run a little revenue boost by charging for the paperwork and background checks.
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If this is from a federal law, does the CCW extend to federal property? Airports and airliners? No, it is specifically excluded from those. LE can still carry on airplanes if they have a letter from their chief stating they are on official business. It even applies to federal agents. Some FBI guys I know were denied carrying on the plane when they travelled for vacation. Lame. You guys cry and moan all you want. It's like saying you don't care when a state gives the right back to citizens to CHL or to own class 3. If you don't care about everyone who is a gunslinger, you're a hypocrite. I thank every CHL I stop on a traffic stop, especially if they are carrying their weapon. Doc The above should absolutely not happen, unless they are traveling to foreign lands on vacation. FED Agents are allowed to carry on planes per Title 49. |
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If this is from a federal law, does the CCW extend to federal property? Airports and airliners? No, it is specifically excluded from those. LE can still carry on airplanes if they have a letter from their chief stating they are on official business. It even applies to federal agents. Some FBI guys I know were denied carrying on the plane when they travelled for vacation. Lame. You guys cry and moan all you want. It's like saying you don't care when a state gives the right back to citizens to CHL or to own class 3. If you don't care about everyone who is a gunslinger, you're a hypocrite. I thank every CHL I stop on a traffic stop, especially if they are carrying their weapon. Doc The above should absolutely not happen, unless they are traveling to foreign lands on vacation. FED Agents are allowed to carry on planes per Title 49. It did and does. First hand information, not a brother of a friend story. Doc |
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If you bitch about this law passing you're an immature self centered dumb fuck. This is a good thing for our country's security no matter how you look at it.
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I love all the cop bashers on Arfcom... CXS Oh really, you can't at all comprehend how we would have issues with this "superior citizen" bullshit? |
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Quoted:There are more gun owners than cops. Sounds like gun owners need to get off their butts and fight for their cause.
Regular gun owners are not on the "same team" as the government. It's nice, in theory, but in reality there will be no traction. Ironically, it will come down to how the states issue permits, criteria, etc that will sink a universal carry law for all citizens. Despite the fact that HR218 merely identifies the beneficiary as being a current or retired police officer –– irrespective of individual department training in firearms, self-defense and tactics. A "Barney Fife" would be covered, but a "Larry Vickers" isn't.... Hmm... I agree to a degree with what you are saying. I wouldn't mind seeing a national level CCW law along with states having their own permit and reciprocity system. |
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the NYPD has zero experience in encountering legally armed people on the street. there have been instances where undercover/off-duty NYPD officers have intervened in a crime only to be shot by responding uniformed officers. the automatic response here is that if they have a gun they are a bad guy...
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So...this means that a cop from another state can carry in DC right? how about NYC? Both. Happens in places other NYC. Uniform is greater than plain clothes everyday. |
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So we just need to find a friendly Sherriff somewhere to make us all reserve Deputies and then we have nationwide carry that isn't restricted by state law (such as school zones, etc.).
Gotta be someone out there willing to take this on. |
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This came about as the result of an officer fighting criminal charges, right? Charged with carrying a weapon without a permit. |
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Anyone have a department I can be hired by as an officer, for no salary and no benefits, and then retire from without having my benefits vest? I would think that department could run a little revenue boost by charging for the paperwork and background checks. You can join Obama's special police as soon as they are up and running.... along with the majority of current LEO's...Since paying taxes is now patriotic...I am sure that being special police will be a volunteer "Force"... |
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Its funny because all the boosters for the LEOSA curried support of the rank and file gunowners by selling this as a "small step" towards everyone being able to carry. After it was passed can you guess what happened?
Now... if we could just get rid of the "some of us are more equal than others" attitude. Incorporation can't happen soon enough. |
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I wonder how they define retired. I wonder how many days one would have to be a cop before one can "retire". I need to find myself a small town that needs a volunteer deputy for a short time for a minimal donation. iirc 10 years. |
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If this is from a federal law, does the CCW extend to federal property? Airports and airliners? Not airliners. |
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Anyone have a department I can be hired by as an officer, for no salary and no benefits, and then retire from without having my benefits vest? I would think that department could run a little revenue boost by charging for the paperwork and background checks. If you wanna become a cop-become a cop. |
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So...this means that a cop from another state can carry in DC right? how about NYC? Both. Wait till some dipshit still tries to charge you with carrying a concealed firearm. Of course, I wouldn't mind, since it would be like winning the lottery afterwards. |
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I love all the cop bashers on Arfcom... CXS Oh really, you can't at all comprehend how we would have issues with this "superior citizen" bullshit? I seemed to have missed the post where someone is claiming to be a superior citizen. Maybe I'm wrong but see more of an "us vs them" attitude from the cop bashers than anyone here on ARFCOM. |
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Quoted:If you bitch about this law passing you're an immature self centered dumb fuck.
Interesting analysis. |
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So...this means that a cop from another state can carry in DC right? how about NYC? Both. And because of this, I think this is great news for CC for everyone. The more positive encounters that happen between police and armed citizens, including out of jurisdiction LE, will help calm the nerves of people who are nervous about "blood in the streets" It also helps desensitize the sheep to seeing non-uniformed people with guns. |
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.R. 218 NOW LAW
A Look at HR 218, The Law Enforcement Officers Safety Act of 2004 Please Post in Your Headquarters NJLawman.com Thursday, July 22, 2004 10:18 p.m. WASHINGTON - Today, in a Roosevelt Room Ceremony the bill which we have come to know simply as H.R. 218 was signed into law by President George W. Bush. Also known as the "National Concealed Carry for Cops" legislation and the "Law Enforcement Officers Safety Act of 2004," this new law allows law enforcement officers to carry their weapons while off duty between states. It is expected that guidance on this law will come down from the State Attorney General's Offices, and we strongly recommend that officers wait until such time before carrying their weapons over state lines. We would like to offer some warnings for all to heed. First, when in another state you will be subject to the use of force laws of that state. Additionally, the laws of arrest, self defense, and firearms in other states will be different and will govern any actions taken. HR 218 will not be a defense to possessing hollow point bullets, carrying a weapon on a school campus, carrying a prohibited weapons, carrying a weapon in a casino, etc. Some of these scenarios are illegal in certain states. Know HR 218, but also know the laws of that state in which you intend to carry! Second, and this goes double for uniformed officers, you have to identify yourself. You need to identify yourself by badge and by word. Officers who work primarily in uniform are the worst at this since they are not accustomed to identifying themselves at scenes. The uniform takes care of that. When identifying yourself, use the loudest voice possible so witnesses will hear you and be able to corroborate your account of the incident later. Below we have provided a basic breakdown of the new law. We again caution that guidance should be sought by your agency and/or the Attorney General's Office before acting on the new HR 218 law. Consult the administration from your own agency regarding HR 218 before acting on it. Also, at the bottom of the page we have provided a link which will bring you to the actual text of the new law. Okay, what is HR 218? ...an individual who is a qualified law enforcement officer and who is carrying the identification required by subsection (d) may carry a concealed firearm that has been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce, subject to subsection (b). For whom does HR 218 apply? This law applies to persons who meet the definition listed below of a "Qualified Law Enforcement Officer." qualified law enforcement officer means an employee of a governmental agency who–– `(1) is authorized by law to engage in or supervise the prevention, detection, investigation, or prosecution of, or the incarceration of any person for, any violation of law, and has statutory powers of arrest; `(2) is authorized by the agency to carry a firearm; `(3) is not the subject of any disciplinary action by the agency; `(4) meets standards, if any, established by the agency which require the employee to regularly qualify in the use of a firearm; `(5) is not under the influence of alcohol or another intoxicating or hallucinatory drug or substance; and `(6) is not prohibited by Federal law from receiving a firearm. What kind of "Identification" is Necessary Under HR 218? (d) The identification required by this subsection is the photographic identification [emphasis added] issued by the governmental agency for which the individual is employed as a law enforcement officer. What Does HR 218 Prohibited me from Carrying? (e) As used in this section, the term `firearm' does not include–– `(1) any machinegun (as defined in section 5845 of the National Firearms Act); `(2) any firearm silencer (as defined in section 921 of this title); and `(3) any destructive device (as defined in section 921 of this title). What About us Retired Guys? Yes, HR 218, the Law Enforcement Officer Safety Act of 2004, applies to retired officers who meet the law's definition of "qualified retired law enforcement officer." How does the Law Define "Qualified Retired LEO?" (c) As used in this section, the term `qualified retired law enforcement officer' means an individual who–– `(1) retired in good standing from service with a public agency as a law enforcement officer, other than for reasons of mental instability; `(2) before such retirement, was authorized by law to engage in or supervise the prevention, detection, investigation, or prosecution of, or the incarceration of any person for, any violation of law, and had statutory powers of arrest; `(3) (A) before such retirement, was regularly employed as a law enforcement officer for an aggregate of 15 years or more; or `(B) retired from service with such agency, after completing any applicable probationary period of such service, due to a service-connected disability, as determined by such agency; `(4) has a nonforfeitable right to benefits under the retirement plan of the agency; `(5) during the most recent 12-month period, has met, at the expense of the individual, the State's standards for training and qualification for active law enforcement officers to carry firearms; `(6) is not under the influence of alcohol or another intoxicating or hallucinatory drug or substance; and `(7) is not prohibited by Federal law from receiving a firearm. What about Identification for Retired Officers? (d) The identification required by this subsection is–– `(1) a photographic identification [emphasis added] issued by the agency from which the individual retired from service as a law enforcement officer that indicates that the individual has, not less recently than one year before the date the individual is carrying the concealed firearm, been tested or otherwise found by the agency to meet the standards established by the agency for training and qualification for active law enforcement officers to carry a firearm of the same type as the concealed firearm; or `(2)(A) a photographic identification issued by the agency from which the individual retired from service as a law enforcement officer; and `(B) a certification issued by the State in which the individual resides that indicates that the individual has, not less recently than one year before the date the individual is carrying the concealed firearm, been tested or otherwise found by the State to meet the standards established by the State for training and qualification for active law enforcement officers to carry a firearm of the same type as the concealed firearm. http://www.njlawman.com/Feature%20Pieces/HR%20218.htm H.R.218: The Law Enforcement Officers Safety Act of 2004 (Enrolled as Agreed to or Passed by Both House and Senate) One Hundred Eighth Congress of the United States of America AT THE SECOND SESSION Begun and held at the City of Washington on Tuesday, the twentieth day of January, two thousand and four An Act To amend title 18, United States Code, to exempt qualified current and former law enforcement officers from State laws prohibiting the carrying of concealed handguns. Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled, SECTION 1. SHORT TITLE. This Act may be cited as the `Law Enforcement Officers Safety Act of 2004'. SEC. 2. EXEMPTION OF QUALIFIED LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS FROM STATE LAWS PROHIBITING THE CARRYING OF CONCEALED FIREARMS. (a) In General- Chapter 44 of title 18, United States Code, is amended by inserting after section 926A the following: `Sec. 926B. Carrying of concealed firearms by qualified law enforcement officers `(a) Notwithstanding any other provision of the law of any State or any political subdivision thereof, an individual who is a qualified law enforcement officer and who is carrying the identification required by subsection (d) may carry a concealed firearm that has been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce, subject to subsection (b). `(b) This section shall not be construed to supersede or limit the laws of any State that–– `(1) permit private persons or entities to prohibit or restrict the possession of concealed firearms on their property; or `(2) prohibit or restrict the possession of firearms on any State or local government property, installation, building, base, or park. `(c) As used in this section, the term `qualified law enforcement officer' means an employee of a governmental agency who–– `(1) is authorized by law to engage in or supervise the prevention, detection, investigation, or prosecution of, or the incarceration of any person for, any violation of law, and has statutory powers of arrest; `(2) is authorized by the agency to carry a firearm; `(3) is not the subject of any disciplinary action by the agency; `(4) meets standards, if any, established by the agency which require the employee to regularly qualify in the use of a firearm; `(5) is not under the influence of alcohol or another intoxicating or hallucinatory drug or substance; and `(6) is not prohibited by Federal law from receiving a firearm. `(d) The identification required by this subsection is the photographic identification issued by the governmental agency for which the individual is employed as a law enforcement officer. `(e) As used in this section, the term `firearm' does not include–– `(1) any machinegun (as defined in section 5845 of the National Firearms Act); `(2) any firearm silencer (as defined in section 921 of this title); and `(3) any destructive device (as defined in section 921 of this title).'. (b) Clerical Amendment- The table of sections for such chapter is amended by inserting after the item relating to section 926A the following: `926B. Carrying of concealed firearms by qualified law enforcement officers.'. SEC. 3. EXEMPTION OF QUALIFIED RETIRED LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS FROM STATE LAWS PROHIBITING THE CARRYING OF CONCEALED FIREARMS. (a) In General- Chapter 44 of title 18, United States Code, is further amended by inserting after section 926B the following: `Sec. 926C. Carrying of concealed firearms by qualified retired law enforcement officers `(a) Notwithstanding any other provision of the law of any State or any political subdivision thereof, an individual who is a qualified retired law enforcement officer and who is carrying the identification required by subsection (d) may carry a concealed firearm that has been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce, subject to subsection (b). `(b) This section shall not be construed to supersede or limit the laws of any State that–– `(1) permit private persons or entities to prohibit or restrict the possession of concealed firearms on their property; or `(2) prohibit or restrict the possession of firearms on any State or local government property, installation, building, base, or park. `(c) As used in this section, the term `qualified retired law enforcement officer' means an individual who–– `(1) retired in good standing from service with a public agency as a law enforcement officer, other than for reasons of mental instability; `(2) before such retirement, was authorized by law to engage in or supervise the prevention, detection, investigation, or prosecution of, or the incarceration of any person for, any violation of law, and had statutory powers of arrest; `(3)(A) before such retirement, was regularly employed as a law enforcement officer for an aggregate of 15 years or more; or `(B) retired from service with such agency, after completing any applicable probationary period of such service, due to a service-connected disability, as determined by such agency; `(4) has a nonforfeitable right to benefits under the retirement plan of the agency; `(5) during the most recent 12-month period, has met, at the expense of the individual, the State's standards for training and qualification for active law enforcement officers to carry firearms; `(6) is not under the influence of alcohol or another intoxicating or hallucinatory drug or substance; and `(7) is not prohibited by Federal law from receiving a firearm. `(d) The identification required by this subsection is–– `(1) a photographic identification issued by the agency from which the individual retired from service as a law enforcement officer that indicates that the individual has, not less recently than one year before the date the individual is carrying the concealed firearm, been tested or otherwise found by the agency to meet the standards established by the agency for training and qualification for active law enforcement officers to carry a firearm of the same type as the concealed firearm; or `(2)(A) a photographic identification issued by the agency from which the individual retired from service as a law enforcement officer; and `(B) a certification issued by the State in which the individual resides that indicates that the individual has, not less recently than one year before the date the individual is carrying the concealed firearm, been tested or otherwise found by the State to meet the standards established by the State for training and qualification for active law enforcement officers to carry a firearm of the same type as the concealed firearm. `(e) As used in this section, the term `firearm' does not include–– `(1) any machinegun (as defined in section 5845 of the National Firearms Act); `(2) any firearm silencer (as defined in section 921 of this title); and `(3) a destructive device (as defined in section 921 of this title).'. (b) Clerical Amendment- The table of sections for such chapter is further amended by inserting after the item relating to section 926B the following: `926C. Carrying of concealed firearms by qualified retired law enforcement officers.'. Speaker of the House of Representatives. Vice President of the United States and President of the Senate. for your convenience, the SITE MAP provides easy access to all of our website! http://www.leaa.org/218/218text.html |
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Wonder if us civis will ever get our national carry, probably not cause we are not as capable
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If you bitch about this law passing you're an immature self centered dumb fuck. This is a good thing for our country's security no matter how you look at it. Excellent point. |
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Quoted: Good. Now it's my turn. Seriously. However, some are more equal than others. |
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Many states, Pennsylvania included haven't conformed to the requirements for retirees. As of now, Governor Rendell and his cronies are sitting on their hands more or less not moving on the qualification specifications that the retirees have to meet each year and the specifics of the ID. It's not like the battle is over yet for the cops.
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Im all for a national CCW law. As long as those people have a college education, can make it through a physically challenging 12 week citizens academy, then pass a national re-qual four times a year. Not to mention several interview boards and an extensive background check and a 16 week citizen's FTO program.
After all, this is some of what I went through in order to carry my gun. |
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If this is from a federal law, does the CCW extend to federal property? Airports and airliners? No, it is specifically excluded from those. LE can still carry on airplanes if they have a letter from their chief stating they are on official business. It even applies to federal agents. Some FBI guys I know were denied carrying on the plane when they travelled for vacation. Lame. You guys cry and moan all you want. It's like saying you don't care when a state gives the right back to citizens to CHL or to own class 3. If you don't care about everyone who is a gunslinger, you're a hypocrite. I thank every CHL I stop on a traffic stop, especially if they are carrying their weapon. Doc The above should absolutely not happen, unless they are traveling to foreign lands on vacation. FED Agents are allowed to carry on planes per Title 49. It did and does. First hand information, not a brother of a friend story. Doc I know it does, but it shouldn't. It's happened to FAMs before too, but that usually doesn't turn out to good for the airlines. |
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What about us lowly peasants? <––- yep, no conceal and carry round these parts... Anybody got enough land to become Arfcomville and deputize a few thousand? |
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What wrong with giving more rights to one group than another?
It's what the founders whould have wanted. An American Samurai class,sign me up |
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Quoted: Do you want a cookie or something?Im all for a national CCW law. As long as those people have a college education, can make it through a physically challenging 12 week citizens academy, then pass a national re-qual four times a year. Not to mention several interview boards and an extensive background check and a 16 week citizens FTO program. After all, this is some of what I went through in order to carry my gun. |
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What about us lowly peasants? Back in your place, be silent, and obey. The Overlords have spoken. |
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Im all for a national CCW law. As long as those people have a college education, can make it through a physically challenging 12 week citizens academy, then pass a national re-qual four times a year. Not to mention several interview boards and an extensive background check and a 16 week citizen's FTO program. After all, this is some of what I went through in order to carry my gun. Yea, fuck the Constitution! |
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Yay! Special rights for special people! Thanks! My mom thinks I'm special too! |
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Im all for a national CCW law. As long as those people have a college education, can make it through a physically challenging 12 week citizens academy, then pass a national re-qual four times a year. Not to mention several interview boards and an extensive background check and a 16 week citizens FTO program. After all, this is some of what I went through in order to carry my gun. Whoa there PP; I'm a veteran LEO myself, we went through all that to learn a hell of a lot more than just how to carry a gun concealed. What does a college education have to do with self defense? Do you think every soldier in Iraq has a Criminal Justice Degree? Who would administer these interview boards you speak of, what would be the deal breaker regarding the background check? CCW should be no more challenging than getting a driver's license IMHO. |
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