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Link Posted: 11/19/2008 10:55:27 AM EDT
[#1]
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A McCain strong on immigration, socially conservative, minus McCain-Feingold and able to communicate a coherent fiscally conservative economic policy makes the race winnable even with the bank meltdown.



NO SHIT.

Trouble is, no one has done that since before 2000.

Jesus Tapdancing Christ, thats exactly what I've been saying.


No it is not what you have been saying.
Link Posted: 11/19/2008 10:56:29 AM EDT
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I think Badfish's point is that making social conservatism the focal point of the platform is a sure loser.

And he's right.

He's not suggesting abandoning it entirely, just saying that social issues should not be the only thing differentiating R's from D's. And lately, it has been.


No he is wrong… people did not decide who to vote for on social issues, they did not. If they had the Republicans would have won California.

This election had nothing to do with social issues. A pro-abortion, pro gay marriage McCain loses by another 6 million votes.

A McCain strong on immigration, socially conservative, minus McCain-Feingold and able to communicate a coherent fiscally conservative economic policy makes the race winnable even with the bank meltdown.


This is a big part right there. The ability to communicate is HUGE.

Reagan had it.
Clinton had it.
Obama had it.

GWBush and his father only had it only by default over the dullanddry Dukakis, wierdlywooden AlGore and that boringstiff Kerry.





It helps if you actually HAVE a coherent fiscally conservative economic policy, makes it a lot easier to communicate it.

Link Posted: 11/19/2008 10:57:43 AM EDT
[#3]
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A McCain strong on immigration, socially conservative, minus McCain-Feingold and able to communicate a coherent fiscally conservative economic policy makes the race winnable even with the bank meltdown.



NO SHIT.

Trouble is, no one has done that since before 2000.

Jesus Tapdancing Christ, thats exactly what I've been saying.


Perhaps I'm wrong, but that's not what you've been incessantly saying for the past two weeks.

From what I've read you've simply espoused the "drop all that religous stuff" agenda that every liberal Republican/Media outlet has been pushing for the past 20 years after every GOP defeat.


I know, you know, and he knows... but he ain't going to it admit it.
Link Posted: 11/19/2008 11:03:30 AM EDT
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Drift to the right? Sink the party's chances? WTF? Over?


Weeks after voters elected Barack Obama president and increased Democratic majorities in Congress, social conservatives in Iowa who have a huge influence in state politics have indicated they won't back down. That has some Iowa Republicans worried the party is adopting too narrow a focus.

"We've gone so far to the social right, particularly in caucus attendees, that unless you meet certain litmus tests you have a very difficult time competing in Iowa," said Doug Gross, the party's 2002 gubernatorial nominee. "I think you'll have some candidates who won't compete here unless they perceive that's somehow changed."


You can't out dem the Dems. If you are not at least tolerant of social conservatism find a different party. We will not vote for a lib republican, period.




Clearly the implication is that this is an on-off switch. You're either Mike "I want to change the constitution to make it Christian" Huckabee or you're a Faggot.

Geez. Reading comprehension is at a premium nowadays.


No one is pining for Mike Huckabee.

If the GOP doesn't want to continue losing it has to drift back to the right.  Much of its staunchest supporters are socially right.  If the GOP decides to give then the finger, then it will be forever the loser party.
Link Posted: 11/19/2008 11:05:54 AM EDT
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You are saying exactly that... WTF was the point of this thread.

You have in fact for weeks implied and said as much… you know it, I know it, and so does everyone else, so try the disingenuous routine on someone else.
Don't put words in my mouth. The only thing I've ever said is that if Republicans run as the "God, Guns, and Gays" party they'll never win.

Huckabee won in Iowa because he ran a better campaign there in a WEAK field… THERE WAS NO STRONG CONSERVATIVE CANDIDATE IN THE RACE.

Huckabee won in IA because he was a strong social conservative in a strong social conservative state. Thats the extent of his conservatism. Remember the lovely coalition Reagan put together? That ain't it.


Huck had no chance nationally.  McCain would have had little chance nationally save for the open primaries, and lack of conservative competition.
Link Posted: 11/19/2008 11:19:50 AM EDT
[#6]
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A McCain strong on immigration, socially conservative, minus McCain-Feingold and able to communicate a coherent fiscally conservative economic policy makes the race winnable even with the bank meltdown.



NO SHIT.

Trouble is, no one has done that since before 2000.

Jesus Tapdancing Christ, thats exactly what I've been saying.


Perhaps I'm wrong, but that's not what you've been incessantly saying for the past two weeks.

From what I've read you've simply espoused the "drop all that religous stuff" agenda that every liberal Republican/Media outlet has been pushing for the past 20 years after every GOP defeat.


No, thats what everyone assumes I've been saying because I dare question the consensus around here.
Link Posted: 11/19/2008 11:21:43 AM EDT
[#7]
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I know, you know, and he knows... but he ain't going to it admit it.


Go ahead, show me where I've said anything approaching "drop all that religious stuff."  Please, with bated breath I shall wait.
Link Posted: 11/19/2008 11:27:13 AM EDT
[#8]
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I know, you know, and he knows... but he ain't going to it admit it.


Go ahead, show me where I've said anything approaching "drop all that religious stuff."  Please, with bated breath I shall wait.


Not in those specific words, of course.  But you keep posting articles about how the GOP needs to abandon its conservative social positions.  From what I've read in similar articles for the past two decades that means give the Religious Right the finger and dropping the opposition to abortion.

If the GOP goes pro-choice it will cease to exist as a viable political party.
Link Posted: 11/19/2008 11:31:49 AM EDT
[#9]
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I know, you know, and he knows... but he ain't going to it admit it.


Go ahead, show me where I've said anything approaching "drop all that religious stuff."  Please, with bated breath I shall wait.


Not in those specific words, of course.  But you keep posting articles about how the GOP needs to abandon its conservative social positions.  From what I've read in similar articles for the past two decades that means give the Religious Right the finger and dropping the opposition to abortion.

If the GOP goes pro-choice it will cease to exist as a viable political party.



Then allow me to clarifiy:
My point has been, since day one, that the party's only platform left is social conservatism. Fiscal conservatism has been completely forgotten. If you'll look back in this very thread, you'll see me talking about the "Reagan Coalition." Thats what the party needs to strive for. If you'll look back in older threads, you'll see me bitching and moaning that Bush completely forgot to cut spending while President, but managed to continue to push the social issues. All of this is in every single thread that I've ever started. Just because I post an article critical of the social conservative side of the house doesn't mean I want to see them disappear.

The opposite is true. Republicans can't win without the social right. And the social right can't win without fiscal conservatives.
Link Posted: 11/19/2008 11:35:50 AM EDT
[#10]
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I know, you know, and he knows... but he ain't going to it admit it.


Go ahead, show me where I've said anything approaching "drop all that religious stuff."  Please, with bated breath I shall wait.


Not in those specific words, of course.  But you keep posting articles about how the GOP needs to abandon its conservative social positions.  From what I've read in similar articles for the past two decades that means give the Religious Right the finger and dropping the opposition to abortion.

If the GOP goes pro-choice it will cease to exist as a viable political party.


Yes, it will (or pro-weed or pro-gay marriage).  To the OP - you are early 20's correct?  How many Republican (or any) campaigns have you worked on (volunteer or paid)?

If you have been involved in many then you know the "religious right" that you and the other "libertarians" here so loathe provide the foot soldiers for the party.  When they stay home Republicans (on a national basis) do poorly.  
Link Posted: 11/19/2008 11:37:41 AM EDT
[#11]
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I know, you know, and he knows... but he ain't going to it admit it.


Go ahead, show me where I've said anything approaching "drop all that religious stuff."  Please, with bated breath I shall wait.


Not in those specific words, of course.  But you keep posting articles about how the GOP needs to abandon its conservative social positions.  From what I've read in similar articles for the past two decades that means give the Religious Right the finger and dropping the opposition to abortion.

If the GOP goes pro-choice it will cease to exist as a viable political party.



Then allow me to clarifiy:
My point has been, since day one, that the party's only platform left is social conservatism. Fiscal conservatism has been completely forgotten. If you'll look back in this very thread, you'll see me talking about the "Reagan Coalition." Thats what the party needs to strive for. If you'll look back in older threads, you'll see me bitching and moaning that Bush completely forgot to cut spending while President, but managed to continue to push the social issues. All of this is in every single thread that I've ever started. Just because I post an article critical of the social conservative side of the house doesn't mean I want to see them disappear.

The opposite is true. Republicans can't win without the social right. And the social right can't win without fiscal conservatives.


If that is your opinion, then I agree.

Besides the stock market meltdown, the main reason the Republicans lost is that they stopped acting like Republicans and tried to outspend the Democrats.
Link Posted: 11/19/2008 11:39:09 AM EDT
[#12]
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The opposite is true. Republicans can't win without the social right. And the social right can't win without fiscal conservatives.


If that is your opinion, then I agree.

Besides the stock market meltdown, the main reason the Republicans lost is that they stopped acting like Republicans and tried to outspend the Democrats.


I agree completely.
Link Posted: 11/19/2008 2:50:20 PM EDT
[#13]
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Obama will steam roll back into the White House in 2012. Republicans probably will not have another shot at it until 2020.



You must do well at lotto... They guy hasn't even been sworn it yet, guess about 2012 is a pipe dream.



+1 Someone needs to put the crack pipe down and give it the next two years until the 2010 elections to see how the congressional votes go before calling the 2012 election for someone that hasn't served day 1 yet.  
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