User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 8/31/2015 9:39:09 AM EDT
[#1]
I do security work on govt installations. Our markup to do work on a .gov site vs a civilian site is slightly higher, but not exorbitant. Almost everything we install has to be broken down into RS Means line items in our bid so it's not like we can screw them on parts.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/31/2015 9:41:06 AM EDT
[#2]
Use to sell the government those $1000 dollar toilet seats and $10,000 dollar coffee makers. They couldn't use a commercial white toilet seat that the airlines use that where $50 bucks. They had to have the mental hospital green colored toilet seats that no one makes. The specifications for the coffee makers are outrageous and again they are not used by airlines so they have to be custom made and tested. They specify what they want. A contract is made up and they approve it and sign it. One thing about the Air Force is they like to keep coming back and changing the requirements. Changes cost money and as specified in the contract you have to pay extra for changes outside of the contracts original specifications. Had a part on an airplane that had been deactivated years earlier. Part was missing from the airplane due to an accident. Tried to talk them out of it, no luck. Had to have original manufacturer make one took 6 months and charged them an arm and a leg so they could put it on the airplane and deactivate it. Wonder where your money goes. Asked the officer in charge why not just buy another new airplane since this one was costing more to repair than a new one. He said the repair money comes out of a repair fund no questions asked. A new airplane they would have to go to congress to request the money. These are the people spending our money.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/31/2015 9:46:59 AM EDT
[#3]
its a double edged sword.
yes they charge 200 bucks for a 20 dollar hammer but the government has a lot of red tape and other bullshit that the average company just doesn't want to deal with. the ones that do have to make their margins somewhere. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/31/2015 9:55:52 AM EDT
[#4]
The problem with government contracts are many. Some agency will buy a hammer and draw up a set of specs. Now all hammers have to be exactly like that. If the model isn't made anymore then it has to be made from scratch. And they want 10. The big problem is the bureaucracy. It is simply not possible to to send a person the Home Depot to by the 10 hammers that you need.
Years ago 60 minutes went after a guy who was selling flashlights to the government for something like $135. Turns out the flashlights are designed to survive an airplane crash and are a survival tool. Anyone else could have purchased them for $350. But the owner of the company sold them to the government at a loss trying to be a good citizen. Next thing he knows 60 Minutes is showing up at the door with a $2.00 flashlight in their hands wanting to know why he is ripping off the government. A lot of the high cost of items is simply due to set up costs and quantities ordered. Plus the documentation that you have to supply with the item is a wonder to behold. All engineering drawings. All circuit diagrams. All assembly and service procedures etc. If it is for the military there is a whole other lever of testing that has to be performed to ensure survivability. All of this has to be documented too. As in any large organization, public of private, paperwork is the real end product and reason for their existence. All the other stuff is fluff. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/31/2015 9:59:16 AM EDT
[#5]
You should see our 300 dollar bottle of red loctite.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/31/2015 10:00:39 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The problem with government contracts are many. Some agency will buy a hammer and draw up a set of specs. Now all hammers have to be exactly like that. If the model isn't made anymore then it has to be made from scratch. And they want 10. The big problem is the bureaucracy. It is simply not possible to to send a person the Home Depot to by the 10 hammers that you need. Years ago 60 minutes went after a guy who was selling flashlights to the government for something like $135. Turns out the flashlights are designed to survive an airplane crash and are a survival tool. Anyone else could have purchased them for $350. But the owner of the company sold them to the government at a loss trying to be a good citizen. Next thing he knows 60 Minutes is showing up at the door with a $2.00 flashlight in their hands wanting to know why he is ripping off the government. A lot of the high cost of items is simply due to set up costs and quantities ordered. Plus the documentation that you have to supply with the item is a wonder to behold. All engineering drawings. All circuit diagrams. All assembly and service procedures etc. If it is for the military there is a whole other lever of testing that has to be performed to ensure survivability. All of this has to be documented too. As in any large organization, public of private, paperwork is the real end product and reason for their existence. All the other stuff is fluff. Extra goverment regulations and red tape is why the bottle of red loctite costs $300. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/31/2015 10:02:40 AM EDT
[#7]
I used to bitch about the "$200 hammer" but in the last few decades I have seen social spending balloon to the point that I am starting to grow nostalgic.
When you support a host of leaches who produce nothing but more leaches then you will realize the benefit of a $200 hammer or a $1000 toilet seat. Hammers and toilet seats are at least useful to someone. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/31/2015 10:03:59 AM EDT
[#8]
I'm sending the .gov (specifically the AF) a design proposal today that is about twice what it would be in the private sector. Between the gold-plated specifications and the Corps of Engineers' history at this particular base, I feel like it's not really overcharging.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/31/2015 10:05:20 AM EDT
[#9]
Use to work for a family owned battery dealer. Use to get bid proposals from the Air Force and Army. Owner said to use the price we sold batteries to our employees. Owner was patriotic and never gouged anyone but his dentist. They would send out investigators to find out why are bids where so low. I asked them if they ever investigated the high bidders and they said "no"!
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/31/2015 10:18:44 AM EDT
[#10]
Government is it's own worst enemy. There is alway's a scramble at the end of the year to spend the money left in there budget at the end of the year. If they have any money left the money is deducted from there budget next year. So there is no reward for saving money in there system just penalties if you don't spend it all. That's why there are warehouses filled with a million tongue depressors and Q tips sitting around. "Order some more hammers and toilet seats, we just found some more money we got to spend before the end of the fiscal !". If we could only figure out away that the government operated 3 months out of the year it would be cheaper to pay government employees to sit at home, we would still save money. Most people wouldn't realize the government was closed.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/31/2015 10:50:05 AM EDT
[#11]
There's usually more to the hammer than the face value of the story. Usually it's R&D costs applied to limited production. Low volume won't let you spread the costs of assembly jigs very far.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/31/2015 11:05:14 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Government is it's own worst enemy. There is alway's a scramble at the end of the year to spend the money left in there budget at the end of the year. If they have any money left the money is deducted from there budget next year. So there is no reward for saving money in there system just penalties if you don't spend it all. That's why there are warehouses filled with a million tongue depressors and Q tips sitting around. "Order some more hammers and toilet seats, we just found some more money we got to spend before the end of the fiscal !". If we could only figure out away that the government operated 3 months out of the year it would be cheaper to pay government employees to sit at home, we would still save money. Most people wouldn't realize the government was closed. I worked at CDW for about 6 months or so- we got SLAMMED at the end of the fiscal year. I can't even fathom the sales volume in those last 2-3 weeks. So many computers and monitors, we didn't even know where to put the stuff. We joke about ammo forts, but you could literally hide in the stacks and stacks of stuff being sold to government people trying to use up their budget. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/31/2015 1:00:02 PM EDT
[#13]
I won't repeat what everyone has said about paper trails, submittals, etc. But I will chime in and tell you how frustrating it is when asked to duplicate something, you ask for previous specs/submittals/as builts and no one seems to know what the fuck you're talking about.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/31/2015 1:03:08 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No, i mean what i posted. Would YOU overcharge the government? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
You mean every government contractor, ever??  No, i mean what i posted. Would YOU overcharge the government? Perhaps you have not done work for the .gov, or someone else on down the supply chain. There is no overcharge. It's all well worth the price charged from my experience - at least from my perspective in manufacturing. A.W.D. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/31/2015 1:06:56 PM EDT
[#15]
The issue is that these representatives from the government are colluding with contractors to spend our tax dollars. Just because the government and their suppliers agreed to the price doesn't mean they aren't crooks.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/31/2015 1:08:32 PM EDT
[#16]
When you understand what the Government believes their job is, it all makes sense.
The job of the government is to spend money. Contractors that overcharge have figured that out and enable the government to do its job. You pay a government employee to create BS specs and several other government employees to write the contract and audit the contract, specs, and everything else Then you pay contractor to comply with the specs, contract, audits, etc..... and pay him for his trouble. I wish I was wrong. 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/31/2015 1:10:20 PM EDT
[#17]
Quoted:
Are they criminals? I know, Capitalism, Free Market etc. Would you charge 200 bucks for a hammer knowingly it was going to affect the average joe in the long run. No. Elected officials and their agents are the ones with a fiduciary responsibility to the taxpayer, NOT the guy selling a hammer for $200 to the government. I would charge the most for my products and services that the buyer was willing to pay. Same as every other person on this planet. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/31/2015 1:28:50 PM EDT
[#18]
Prison and take all of their stuff. A criminal is a criminal no matter if they rob you with a gun or a pen.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/31/2015 2:50:16 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I don't blame anyone for trying to get the most money for their wares. And fuck the government. I'll give you 1 guess at who it is that gets fucked when it comes to footing the .gov bill... |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/31/2015 2:53:18 PM EDT
[#20]
It's a $15 hammer and $185 in regulatory and safety requirements mandated to the contractor by the government.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/31/2015 2:55:44 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You mean every government contractor, ever?? Welcome to Northern Virginia where the four top wealthiest counties reside.... |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/31/2015 2:56:57 PM EDT
[#22]
I imagine the upcharge has to do with the almost absurd amount of documentation that needs to accompany the materials that went into it, starting from the fucking ore that's dug out of the ground, to the how the energy used to manufacture it was generated, to delivery and receipt.
Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/31/2015 3:43:03 PM EDT
[#23]
I worked for a defense contractor for close to 15 years and I found that people who work for the government are in constant CYA (Cover Your Ass) mode. I don't hold that against them, that is just the culture. They do not want to have things break, blow up, leak, or whatever, so they Spec the shit out of everything to the extreme. Even when they pushed the COTS initiative 15 or so years ago, they still had a ton of requirements that added unnecessary costs to parts. If people think stuff is overpriced now, the should have seen the mark ups during the cost plus days.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/31/2015 5:31:18 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'll give you 1 guess at who it is that gets fucked when it comes to footing the .gov bill... Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I don't blame anyone for trying to get the most money for their wares. And fuck the government. I'll give you 1 guess at who it is that gets fucked when it comes to footing the .gov bill... And I'll give you one guess as to whether that fucking took place before or after the $200 hammer. 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/31/2015 5:45:35 PM EDT
[#25]
Having to hire an environmental impact firm to assess the impact of running a generator and drilling 3/4" holes in railroad ties.
There is no amount of money to charge to make that right, so you just wing it. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/31/2015 7:53:05 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It's a $15 hammer and $185 in regulatory and safety requirements mandated to the contractor by the government. And money handling fees and the occasional hiding other programs' costs |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/31/2015 8:04:35 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
oh reallllllllllly. When I got out of the .mil I worked in contracting for the army for about 11 months.. Looking at the billing breakdown was disgusting. and we have this little gem. Pentagon pays nearly $1m to have 2-.12cent washers shipped to iraq Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Are they criminals? I know, Capitalism, Free Market etc. Would you charge 200 bucks for a hammer knowingly it was going to affect the average joe in the long run. You guys know that the government never paid $200 for a hammer, right? You know that was all a cold war hiding "black budget" thing... oh reallllllllllly. When I got out of the .mil I worked in contracting for the army for about 11 months.. Looking at the billing breakdown was disgusting. and we have this little gem. Pentagon pays nearly $1m to have 2-.12cent washers shipped to iraq Your post is inaccurate, this involved fraud, it appears from your post the .gov knowingly paid this. I imagine some of these people are at clubfed. Excerpt from YOUR link; C&D and two of its officials were barred in December from receiving federal contracts. Today, a federal judge in Columbia, South Carolina, accepted the guilty plea of the company and one sister, Charlene Corley, to one count of conspiracy to commit wire fraud and one count of conspiracy to launder money, Assistant U.S. Attorney Kevin McDonald said. Corley, 46, was fined $750,000. She faces a maximum prison sentence of 20 years on each count and will be sentenced soon, McDonald said in a telephone interview from Columbia. Stroot said her sibling died last year. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/31/2015 8:07:10 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Do you really think that the .gov is paying 1200 dollars for a toilet seat? That money has to be laundered somehow so it's off the books, what better excuse than government incompetency. Pretty sure I was told by a member her I know personally, and is in the industry, said that the famous toilet seat in question was a special made seat for an oddball toilet inside a navy anti sub plane... The cost evidently had a lot to do with the prototyping and special design that was required by .gov.... this was not a home depot toilet seat. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/31/2015 8:16:10 PM EDT
[#29]
Quoted:
Are they criminals? I know, Capitalism, Free Market etc. Would you charge 200 bucks for a hammer knowingly it was going to affect the average joe in the long run. Well, it isn't real capitalism or free market. The reality is that the government doesn't know what things should cost. Oh, it can figure our a regular hammer, but when buying something that doesn't exist on the real market it doesn't really know. Frankly the .gov efforts at fighting fraud burn a lot of money a lot of ways. And fraud still exists, and it always will. It is inherent in the nature of the beast. Goverment paying for medical care has tghe same effect. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/31/2015 8:22:40 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
And money handling fees and the occasional hiding other programs' costs Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
It's a $15 hammer and $185 in regulatory and safety requirements mandated to the contractor by the government. And money handling fees and the occasional hiding other programs' costs Well, the amount of red tape that goes towards making sure money goes to the correct project is very high. It can be very hard to shift a box of screws to another project. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/31/2015 8:27:22 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Well, the amount of red tape that goes towards making sure money goes to the correct project is very high. It can be very hard to shift a box of screws to another project. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
It's a $15 hammer and $185 in regulatory and safety requirements mandated to the contractor by the government. And money handling fees and the occasional hiding other programs' costs Well, the amount of red tape that goes towards making sure money goes to the correct project is very high. It can be very hard to shift a box of screws to another project. A couple years back, Dept of State wanted to charge the Marine Corps a 10 percent service charge to accept money we transferred to DSS for the Marine Security Guards. After threats of no longer provided MSG they said they waive the fee for this one program because they end up saving billions because we do the mission for them. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/31/2015 8:28:04 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I worked for a defense contractor for close to 15 years and I found that people who work for the government are in constant CYA (Cover Your Ass) mode. I don't hold that against them, that is just the culture. They do not want to have things break, blow up, leak, or whatever, so they Spec the shit out of everything to the extreme. Even when they pushed the COTS initiative 15 or so years ago, they still had a ton of requirements that added unnecessary costs to parts. If people think stuff is overpriced now, the should have seen the mark ups during the cost plus days. We once (at a former workplace, a major DoD colntractor) had a TV set go unprocurable. We went through a trade study to find a replacement that met all requirements. We selected a replacement, and someone took too long giving the green light and it became unprocurable, too. The market had changed and the specs coluldn't be met, and we had to get spec relief. And then do another trade study and select another TV for the new requirements. Now think that through, and consider the time of the engineers involved, the purchasing people, the chief engineer, PMO, quality, test, DCMA, etc. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/31/2015 8:29:18 PM EDT
[#33]
I'm a gov IT type.
A couple months ago, I spent a day or so writing some HTML. It was just a mockup for what we wanted the contractors to make this web app look like. I emailed the code to the contractors. It was a pretty polished finish product, not some rough bullshit. They literally just cut and pasted it into their preferred editor, added a tiny bit of logic with cold fusion(it was a very simple part of the app), then billed us $2500 for "design work."
My supervisor gives me an odd look when I make comments about being on the wrong side of this business lol The bills they send us for little shit is just unreal. This is the tip of the iceberg... tons of money is pissed away on this web app that only 100ish people use each month. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/31/2015 8:30:51 PM EDT
[#34]
ON a semi-related note, Contractors - remember that registering and updating your registration in SAM is FREE!!!
If you find a site that is charging you, it's a "service" that borders on being a scam. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/31/2015 8:31:36 PM EDT
[#35]
I never figured out how that works. I work for a construction company and we lost our butts on every government job we've done. It's they sit around and think up ways for people to lose money. Getting them to pay for change orders is such a PINTA.
Our project manager was actually told once by a Corps of Engineers guy "You aren't here to put a job in. We're here to have meetings about putting a job in." |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/31/2015 8:31:51 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I worked for a defense contractor for close to 15 years and I found that people who work for the government are in constant CYA (Cover Your Ass) mode. I don't hold that against them, that is just the culture. They do not want to have things break, blow up, leak, or whatever, so they Spec the shit out of everything to the extreme. Even when they pushed the COTS initiative 15 or so years ago, they still had a ton of requirements that added unnecessary costs to parts. If people think stuff is overpriced now, the should have seen the mark ups during the cost plus days. The big take away I get form every meeting at work, is that everyone is constantly in a state of feeling they have to justify their existence in some way. Whether it's pushing for added bullshit requirements, or wanting to redo something that works fine, or just sitting around and trying to be the good idea fairy even though they have no idea what the hell they are talking about (non-IT GS15's in an IT office are great at that). It's insanity
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/31/2015 8:33:54 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
A couple years back, Dept of State wanted to charge the Marine Corps a 10 percent service charge to accept money we transferred to DSS for the Marine Security Guards. After threats of no longer provided MSG they said they waive the fee for this one program because they end up saving billions because we do the mission for them. That's awsome. "Go ahead State, provide your own security!" |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/31/2015 8:35:53 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The big take away I get form every meeting at work, is that everyone is constantly in a state of feeling they have to justify their existence in some way. Whether it's pushing for added bullshit requirements, or wanting to redo something that works fine, or just sitting around and trying to be the good idea fairy even though they have no idea what the hell they are talking about (non-IT GS15's in an IT office are great at that). It's insanity There usually someone who likes to show up at meetings and throw out ideas just to sound smart, and usually they are just wasting other people's time. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/31/2015 8:36:53 PM EDT
[#39]
For all those who are in the military, particularly anyone who uses a parachute, read the label.
It probably says "Han Zho Bait and Tackle. 8A contractor to the Department of Social Services." Jump, and know your life is in their hands. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/31/2015 8:38:15 PM EDT
[#40]
You assume that its overcharging. As in "charging too much money". Its rarely that. Do you think you can simply charge the government more than the contract allows - and they'll just pay it?
Sure the $200 hammer stories play well - and people that only remember headlines have that depth of comprehension. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/31/2015 8:41:17 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The issue is that these representatives from the government are colluding with contractors to spend our tax dollars. Just because the government and their suppliers agreed to the price doesn't mean they aren't crooks. Not really. Most contracting officers take their role seriously. There are some lazy .gov employees that just sit around and don't issue any contracts. I would say the .gov wastes more money on employees that do nothing than on contractors. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/31/2015 8:43:06 PM EDT
[#42]
I guess most people don't know how contract bidding works?
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/31/2015 8:45:18 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I imagine the upcharge has to do with the almost absurd amount of documentation that needs to accompany the materials that went into it, starting from the fucking ore that's dug out of the ground, to the how the energy used to manufacture it was generated, to delivery and receipt. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Read the Federal Acquistion Regulations (FAR). Contractors spending lots of time and money following the rules and documenting that the ore was obtained in accordance with green, sustainable, unicorn safe, federation approved, practices. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/31/2015 8:49:02 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Extra government regulations and red tape is why the bottle of red loctite costs $300. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
The problem with government contracts are many. Some agency will buy a hammer and draw up a set of specs. Now all hammers have to be exactly like that. If the model isn't made anymore then it has to be made from scratch. And they want 10. The big problem is the bureaucracy. It is simply not possible to to send a person the Home Depot to by the 10 hammers that you need. Years ago 60 minutes went after a guy who was selling flashlights to the government for something like $135. Turns out the flashlights are designed to survive an airplane crash and are a survival tool. Anyone else could have purchased them for $350. But the owner of the company sold them to the government at a loss trying to be a good citizen. Next thing he knows 60 Minutes is showing up at the door with a $2.00 flashlight in their hands wanting to know why he is ripping off the government. A lot of the high cost of items is simply due to set up costs and quantities ordered. Plus the documentation that you have to supply with the item is a wonder to behold. All engineering drawings. All circuit diagrams. All assembly and service procedures etc. If it is for the military there is a whole other lever of testing that has to be performed to ensure survivability. All of this has to be documented too. As in any large organization, public of private, paperwork is the real end product and reason for their existence. All the other stuff is fluff. Extra government regulations and red tape is why the bottle of red loctite costs $300. I got asked to bid on manufacturing the diesel exhaust fluid for a government installation. This shit is EASY to make. There is nothing to it. The specs in the pdf were clearly written so only one company could blend it. There were requirements for the building it was blended including how many electric outlets each wall had and where they were located.
I wish I had kept a copy of that bullshit. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/31/2015 8:50:29 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The expensive toilet seat was the per item cost to create an injection mold and make somewhere around 50 seats for a specific aircraft lavatory, of course a toilet seat is going to be expensive if you have to include the cost of the $60k mold in the per item cost. Kharn Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Do you really think that the .gov is paying 1200 dollars for a toilet seat? That money has to be laundered somehow so it's off the books, what better excuse than government incompetency. The expensive toilet seat was the per item cost to create an injection mold and make somewhere around 50 seats for a specific aircraft lavatory, of course a toilet seat is going to be expensive if you have to include the cost of the $60k mold in the per item cost. Kharn Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile It was actually for the KC-135 and the order was for less than 50. Boeing had not made any since the final aircraft was delivered in the 1960's and no more were left in inventory. Of course it had to be mil spec and since it was an aircraft part it got the extra 'love' by the mil spec machine. This was the story told to me by a friend who did all the flight test work on the KC-135's as they came out of depot. He was in a position to know and was not known to embellish (even for a tanker toad). |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/31/2015 8:54:10 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Most people that bitch about how much .gov contractors charge for their products or services have never done business with the government. Last year I bid on a toilet paper holder for the C-130's. Nothing fancy about it, could have bought one at Home Depot that would have worked just fine. Every stinking item in the assembly had to have documentation stating the source of origin of the material, certification that the material was in fact what was specified, DFARS flowdown reports, AS9102 Quality documents, coated with non-VOC paints, packaged in accordance with a MIL-SPEC that I can't recall. The boxes they were to be shipped in had to have been produced from a renewable resource and contain at least 30% recycled material with any markings on the package done with low-VOC inks and taped up with a MIL-SPEC tape of a very specific thickness with the adhesive, again, of low-VOC compounds. Everything had to be documented so the accompanying paper trail would be about 47 pages long and take hours to produce, any clerical error would cause a rejection of the shipment even if the parts were perfect. If you take into consideration all the BS a company has to put up with, $200 for a hammer is a bargain. Yeah, or if the gov't engineer, or Clerk-of-the-Works fucks up, we could never push those to labor costs. Any Change Orders, or off-shift labor differentials had to be pushed to materials. As others have stated. The Fed is the worst customer to work for. ETA: The stories about $200 hammers, and $500 toilet seats used to piss me off too, until I started doing construction projects for them. My take is that most of the time it's their ridiculous specs, or the guy running the project covering their own fuck ups. There is a lot of accountibility in labor costs, but not so much in materials, so that's where the CO's get pushed to. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/31/2015 9:04:53 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted For Truth You also forgot to mention that absolute abomination of an online invoicing system DFAS uses so vendors can get paid. The only other gov't information system I've found that was worse than WAWF is ATF eForms. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Most people that bitch about how much .gov contractors charge for their products or services have never done business with the government. Last year I bid on a toilet paper holder for the C-130's. Nothing fancy about it, could have bought one at Home Depot that would have worked just fine. Every stinking item in the assembly had to have documentation stating the source of origin of the material, certification that the material was in fact what was specified, DFARS flowdown reports, AS9102 Quality documents, coated with non-VOC paints, packaged in accordance with a MIL-SPEC that I can't recall. The boxes they were to be shipped in had to have been produced from a renewable resource and contain at least 30% recycled material with any markings on the package done with low-VOC inks and taped up with a MIL-SPEC tape of a very specific thickness with the adhesive, again, of low-VOC compounds. Everything had to be documented so the accompanying paper trail would be about 47 pages long and take hours to produce, any clerical error would cause a rejection of the shipment even if the parts were perfect. If you take into consideration all the BS a company has to put up with, $200 for a hammer is a bargain. Quoted For Truth You also forgot to mention that absolute abomination of an online invoicing system DFAS uses so vendors can get paid. The only other gov't information system I've found that was worse than WAWF is ATF eForms. And the brain-devoid drones of the Defense Contract Audit Agency. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/31/2015 9:09:34 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I never figured out how that works. I work for a construction company and we lost our butts on every government job we've done. It's they sit around and think up ways for people to lose money. Getting them to pay for change orders is such a PINTA. Our project manager was actually told once by a Corps of Engineers guy "You aren't here to put a job in. We're here to have meetings about putting a job in." |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/31/2015 9:15:51 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I hope you weren't their estimator/BD person. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I never figured out how that works. I work for a construction company and we lost our butts on every government job we've done. It's they sit around and think up ways for people to lose money. Getting them to pay for change orders is such a PINTA. Our project manager was actually told once by a Corps of Engineers guy "You aren't here to put a job in. We're here to have meetings about putting a job in." No I wasn't. They were all bid by the same guy that left shortly after the contracts were signed. He bid them correctly if the customer had been a private sector company but didn't listen to me when I advised him to add 40% when bidding anything for the MIL. It wasn't just us though, I think everyone lost money or broke even on those three projects. I heard several experienced subs remark they would never bid another MIL contract after those disasters. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/31/2015 9:21:25 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
And money handling fees and the occasional hiding other programs' costs Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
It's a $15 hammer and $185 in regulatory and safety requirements mandated to the contractor by the government. And money handling fees and the occasional hiding other programs' costs No Say you made some wiz bang part to sell to the .gov. Do you have a certified safety specialist, hazmat specialist and industrial hygienist? Can you prove your widget meets all associated requirements on the contract? If you make the world's best 16oz hammer and the contract states a 15.9oz head you can't profile .1oz off the head, you have to jump through the hoops. I bet a lot of machine shop guys here get shit done day to day and have no idea what a hazmat locker, AUL binder, or IH survey are |
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
