you take off in second gear or roll it out steady keeping wheels under control.  First gear ratios are too much with the bottom end torque I usually find in Fords.

I still want to see a factory(factory rear end as well) Camaro Z28 or a factory Camaro SS, take LT1 or LS1, and have it run 12s on the strip.    With street tires I highly doubt it and with drag tires I might begin to believe it, still though the list of factory cars that can do 12 second E/T through the 1/4 mile is pretty small and you're tryin to tell me an unmodified Z28 or SS is gonna go 12s?   The guys I know driving Z28s weren't able to get there without doing mods first, now they have progressed a bit past 12s runnin around 11s with 420+hp where the tires meet the road.

[img]http://www.trabi.de/sport/5_2.jpg[/img]

Hmmmm...I thought the Mustang was still in production because people wanted to buy them???

The '03' Cobra has a 281 ci.(4.6 ltr) 4 valve motor topped with a 112 ci. eaton blower.Makes 381 horse at the rear wheels(395 without the air silencer,a common take off)and does well under 12 seconds in the quarter mile.

$35,000 for a fully loaded(leather,six in dash cd,T56-6speed,independent rear susp.Brembo,Bilstein,bla,bla,bla....)coupe.

Pretty cool and by FAR the baddest factory Mustang ever.

F&*# ford. I want one of these. Teh GMC syclone. Eats ferraris  for breakfast and shits out fords..

[img]http://georgiasyty.com/images/JoeKellersSy.jpg[/img]
-T.

The Cyclone and Typhoon are one of the coolest automoblies ever made.

But, all money aside, the M5 is probably the best car EVER made.

Full-size, low 13's in the 1/4, 6 speed, did I forget anything?

one question.
do the ducts work?
or are they only shitty plastic covers?

This man knows his stuff!

Anyway,LS1 F cars run hight 12s all day,don't make a fool of your self and act like thats a big deal.
GM cars and trucks have more "on the table" then any others do,if you are one of the few guys that know how to get all the power out of a stock F car and you don't go and slap headers and K&N filters and call it a hot rod you will get more that 400hp.

The LS1 was made to put out about 600hp but they de-tuned it.
If you know what they did to it you can undo it,ask your self way a 90% staock Vette can win the 24hrs of La-Mans.

That syclone has a 262ci V6 if it can go as fast as it can then how much more can you get from 348ci(or for the C6 490ci)

Sorry guys.....bought American once. Nice car....three years later the company got shut down, and the car is worth less than one third of what I paid for it. Not buying American again.

And while I respect the BMW and the whole 'Precision German Engineering' thing....it just can't hold a candle to the Son of Godzilla.

[img]http://mywebpages.comcast.net/fzado4/r34a.jpg[/img]

[img]http://mywebpages.comcast.net/fzado4/r34b.jpg[/img]

2000-2001 Nissan Skyline R-34 GT-R Vspec-II

RB26DETT 2.6l DOHC 24 valve In-Line 6 with Intercooled Twin Turbo
~350hp @ 6800rpm tested (listed at 280hp)
36.8kg/m @ 4000rpm
6 Speed Getrag gearbox
Nissan Super HICAS steering system
ATTESA E-TS Pro 4WD system
245/40ZR18 Potenz tires w/ Brembo brakes

Stock 0-60mph in 4.7 seconds
Stock 0-100mph in 12.7 seconds
Stock 1/4 mile in 13.7 seconds

If we want to touch the aftermarket area.....Veilside has one putting out over 1300hp, with a top speed of over 215mph.
It's a beast, and it looks it....or as it's also called, the 'battle god'.

Please tell me it will be at least a 5.0liter engine. The current mustang is a friggen joke! Through the 80's and very early 90's the Mustangs were faster than the Z28 and Formula/Trans-Am.

However for the last two generations, the GM poducts have been significantly faster than the Mustangs. Ford really dropped the ball with the last two versions.

FWIW; that "yuppie" BMW is a bad ass car and you'll pick up more chicks driving that beemer than any Ford or Chevy product.

Hardcase,
Is that nissan a production car and is it ever available at US Nissan dealerships?

Gee, pretty, but it's still a ford and it's still a piece of shit.  "Ford, where quality, is someone else's job."

Mike

A Corvette has never been the overall winner in the 24hours of Le Mans.

They don't even run in the top class.BMW and AUDI have dominated international endurance racing in the last few years.They run in the prototype class(you know -wildass looking ground effects cars).Cadillac(developing there own engine) has been trying to compete in this class(Cadillac LMP-maybe you've seen the commercials)for the last 2-3 years in hopes of an overall win at Le Mans(prestege),but havn't won any races yet.

Yeah and you know who won four years in a row until they closed their factory racing program down, yep the only U.S. manufacturer to win...Ford

The GT40 is for real...

My brother was in Detroit 2 weeks ago, and sat in the finished prototype...

Too bad it will be un-affordable for most of us...

first the only shelbys that hertz rented where66,67,68,69, gt350. the gt500 which frist came out in 1967 ,then in 68 gt500 with 428cj, then th gt500 kr which had a ram air, as for camaro there will be no camaro aftwer this year.the hood on this sweeet new mustang is straight of a 1968 gt350/500(they are the same but for motor and trans), very nice , maybe they make a new shelby gt350/ 500 before he dies. and maybe they will bring back the boss 429 hemi,, as the svt guy have already stuff a efi 429 into a 2000 mustang . god bless em. just my 2 cents.

ps nissan gtr kicks ass 4 wheel steer,4 wheel drive. they have been around for quit some time now, just not in the good old us of a, but a small company is now importing them, they come 3 stages, i think it 348hp.750hp and 1000hp.street legal.

I've owned more Camaros than I can remember, but only ever raced three of them...

My '86 IROC looked identical to yours...[:D]
(black/gold)

The '86 IROC-Z w/TPI 305 & AT went 15.14 bone stock...

The '88 Camaro w/305 TBI & AT went 16.20 bone stock...


For you muscleheads...

My favorite, the '70 Z-28 went 8.46 @ 159.85 mph...(NOT stock[:D])

Yup, that's going from a dead stop to 160 mph in 8.46 seconds...



It sorta goes like this...
Follow along for the ride...


Roll out of the staging lanes, and into the burnout box...

Flip the tires in the water

Roll up a few feet

set the line-loc

swat the throttle down 1/2 way

start the tires smoking

shift into high gear

release the line-loc

roll up to the starting line

Pre-stage

Stage

hold transbrake button on

floor the throttle



3 Yellow lights all come on (Pro Tree)

Green light

release transbrake button

BANG!!!

1 Mississippi...(gone 60 feet)

2 Mississippi...

3 Mississippi...

4 Mississippi...

5 Mississippi...(gone 660 feet now,125mph and climbing )

6 Mississippi...

7 Mississippi...

8 Miss/... (gone 1320 feet & 160 mph)

pull the 'chute release

slow down enough to make the return road...

stop and throw the chute in the trunk...

go back to the pits, & re-pack the chute...(pain in the ass)


Thank you for joining me in the land of make-believe [:D]




Also for "real-world" comparison, my buddy's '91 454SS Chevy truck ran a 14.85 bone stock...

These are "real-world" numbers at Maple Grove Dragstrip, from NHRA licensed, "seasoned" drivers...

I've been Dragracing for over 15 years, and there's NO WAY you will EVER duplicate a Dragstrip time on the street...
The starting line on a dragstrip is so sticky, it will pull the sneakers right off your feet...

Dragstrip starting line G's from an 8-second car are incredible, and are impossible to achieve on any highway...
Even a 12-second car would struggle for enough traction to go 1320 feet on a regular road in less than 14 seconds...

Most of the E.T. is gotten in the first 60-feet...

I've run passes already that tripped the lights in 9.0 seconds at 85 mph, only because I shut it off at 1/2 track, and had 60-ft times in the low 1.20's...

By the same token, if you shake the tires, or spin on the line, you might run 155 mph, but only do it in 12 seconds...Only because the 60-ft times sucked...

Also, most of the newer stock bodied LT-1 Camaros run "real-world" times around 13.20's-13.40's...

The LS-1 Camaros will dip into the 12's...

The LS-1 Vette's I've seen running 12.80's...

I haven't seen any ZO6 Vette's run yet, but I figure they are good for low to mid 12's...


Those ARE the facts, and my 2 cents...


(Edited to add the land of make-believe)

the rustangs never stood a chance against the mighty chevy LS1 engine. Rustangs V8 puts out 260HP, Z28 does 310HP, SS 325HP. oh and the v6(V6 is not a LS1)? it does 200HP.

the new Chevy trailblazer V6 puts out 270HP. now thats a little embarrasing for ford. a V6 outputting more HP then a V8.

Wonder if the 'advanced' suspension will utilize leaf springs ?

The pics are of a standard production model Skyline R34 GT-R, and unfortunately it's not available at US Nissan dealers. It was never imported, mostly I think because it's really a niche market vehicle (how many people in the US would take NISSAN as a muscle car?) and the projected revenue wouldn't match the cost of importation (R&D to convert to left side drive). However.....the car is actually on hiatus until 2004. When Carl Ghosn became president of Nissan, he took a number of their models out of production for retooling. Technically '01 is the last production year of the R34. This is good news, because the Nissan Skyline 4-door sedan has been brought over to the US as the Infiniti G35. The Skyline GT-R will be released in early '04, and it will be released in the American market.

The R34 I listed generally costs in the area of about $45-$50k USD...it can be bought by a company called Motorex, who have done all the legal mumbo jumbo (DOT cert, EPA cert, crash testing, import legalities, paperwork) to bring it in. Problem is, that jumps the price up to about $90k USD. Curse the US Government and it's silly importation laws....

I'll just have to settle for the R32 GT-R...only about $38k after import cost.

awesome looking car! lightning motor won't fit under the hood. the superchrager is a roots type that sits atop the motor. they would have to use a centrical charger to get hood clearance.

So, YOU stand by your statements.  Just because you say so, the Mustang in 'Bullitt' has a 396 Chevy in it.  Never mind the linked article that explains all about the car preps.

What do the number of Bullitt Mustangs at a Mustang show have to do with it?  Even if some guy on the street puts a 396 in a Mustang does not mean the one in the movie had one, if that is what you are insinuating with the Bullitt Mustangs at a Mustang show bit.  Some people are so eat up with GM (Guaranteed Malfunction) that reality just gets lost somewhere.

Further, why would the makers of a movie go to all that trouble?  It's just a movie, they can edit any way they want, so why supposedly hop it up (if you believe that's what the 396 would do, which is doubtful)

I don't own GM or Ford.  I have owned GM in the past and will never own another.  If I had to choose between the two, it would be a Ford, having been a service adviser at two GM dealerships in the past.

I see you have never owned a C-5 Corvette.

Go to:
[url]http://www.lingenfelter.com/pac350magscc5.asp[/url]

The AUDIs and the Corvettes are not in the same race,prototype class is just that.
Don't yu think it's funny that the Vette's 1-2 finish in GTS class was still better that many of the prototypes?

I saw a guy in a Skyline make an ass of him self in Sebring FL.
Some people where filming a commercial or something with one of the "1 off" Lingfelter Z06s.
Track time there is not cheap so ever on works fast,I gess they did not see the sports car club from Plam Beach pull up but the next thing you know they are setting up to go out.

So I'm standing in a gass field next to the Skip Barber Racing school and I hear this buzz and here it comes,looks just like the one posted but with white rims.

He pulls in next to the Z06 and yells something and takes off,after about 2 or 3 secs the Z06 takes off and goes by so fast you can see the Nissan rock.

Lingfelter Z06 is only the fastest street car in the world now,take that POS back to the land of the little people Japanimation boy[:D]

800+hp
1.7secs 0-60
Next!

Thinking about sending my 2000 Hard top to Lingenfelter in 2003:

1997 - 2002 LS1, LS6 Corvette
Lingenfelter Supercharged C5 Corvette Package

490 BHP / 480 lbs-ft of torque**

0-60-MPH 3.7 seconds 1/4 mile-11.7 sec  @ 126 MPH
As tested by Car & Driver 4/2002

Package includes:
• Magnacharger supercharger package - aluminum finish
• Properly sized fuel injectors
• Custom LPE fiberglass hood painted & blended
• Professional installation, testing and calibration
• Chassis dyno tested after assembly

Thank God.  In racing, the 'vette is known as 'Plastic Pig'.  The only 'vette doing any good in racing is the full blown factory effort and they only started doing well when Chrysler stopped backing the Vipers.

His point was that FORD has won Le Mans overall, something NO GM product has done.

As for the Z06 and the Skyline, an aftermarket modified car outruns a factory production car.  Big deal.

I am posting the link referred to earlier [url]www.terraworld.net/smoker/cars/bullitt.html[/url].  This article was written by those involved in making the movie and they don't agree with that.

I'll take the word of those involved over that of some rag that says 'so and so said.....'.

At least I supply links, I see no info to backup your claim.
First a 390 Ford can run with a 396 Chevy. Why would the makers go to all the trouble of customizing  motor mounts and headers to put a 396 Chevy in a Mustang. If the makers of the movie wanted more horsepower in their car they would have pulled the 390 out and put in a 427 Ford which would put out a hell of lot more horsepower than a 396 chevy motor and be a direct bolt in.  I think somewhere maybe you saw a car that said it was a bullitt with a 396 and you assumed it was a chevy when in fact it might have been a .30 over 390 which would be in fact a 396c.i. motor.

From what I've always read,Bullit's car was a basically bone stock '67' fastback with a 390,4 speed and torque thrusts.

I don't know about LarryG,but I think the C5 is a really neat road car.But he's right the Corvette,really throughout its history,has never  done anything against the worlds best in international road racing(where sports cars are proven).The Viper did dominate its class for several years until the factory recently stopped backing them.

I'm glad GM is now backing the Vette's,America should always have a successfull rig representn.Guess GM just never bought into the "win on sunday,sell on monday" deal before.

Saleen is also building a monstrous sportscar in hopes of an overall win at Le Man type events.S2 or S4? mid engined all aluminum 427 big block....hell yeah!

Personally I tilt towards Ford,but I like both makes.Ford has the upper hand right now cause of all the different configurations of Mustangs and the Lightning while all GM has is the Vette(Why is the Monte Carlo a fwd v6?).I also don't understand why they didn't invest in updating the F cars.Anyhow I hope they get some things going cause its the competition that makes these two manufacturers offer us these juicy rides.

I don't think there's any way to make an accurate comparison of the the speed/quickness capbilities of any rig, on the street.Too many variables.The only real test is the same driver driving both cars with the same tequnique on a track.The rest is just boyracer BS.

I think we all know that for the most part, money equals speed.Course there are some exceptions.I could buy a used 87-93 fox mustang 5.0 5speed for $3-4,000 put very little into it and break into the twelves.On the other hand I was watching that HotRod Magazine TV show(cool program)when they had a "fastest for the least bucks" story.This nut took a chevette and stuffed a Cadillac 492 into it(with dashboard delete of course)put some slicks on it and dipped into the 10's,all for a little over 4 grand.It was funny,they raced it against a new vette(smoked it)just to emphasize the performance per dollar factor.

byron2112,

If you look at the car magazines they generally compare apples to apples.  The Corvette is tested against cars tens of thousands of dollars higher and consistently beats them.  I want someone to name a domestic production car that will beat a 2003 Z06 in overall performance.  The concept Mustang looks like the rest of fords retread lineup.  

"I don't know about LarryG,but I think the C5 is a really neat road car.But he's right the Corvette,really
                       throughout its history,has never done anything against the worlds best in international road racing(where
                       sports cars are proven).The Viper did dominate its class for several years until the factory recently stopped
                       backing them."

No guys,Corvettes have alway been there.
Some of the most landmark races have been Vettes VS "the worlds best"

Names like Grand Sport and ZO6 are not new.
A long time ago before it was cool to think about any thing other than big block Novas and Hemis there where guys pulling big Gs and going very fast when Sebring was still an air port and there was no such thing as American La-Mans.(or Vipers)

It's funny that someone would think team Corvette only did well after the Vipers left,they got better and better ever race and the Viper boys knew one day it would not be so easy.
To get out when your still on top is not a bad idea,but to stay and show you are really the champ is better.

Anyway, as for the lil. Jap car,the Skyline is a "one off" the TT Z06 is a "one off" there is no big deal.


Like QCMGR said,you can call it a pig or what ever you like but you can't beat it.
Plastic? yes and before it's time,now that so many others do it in 2002 I would think that makes Chevy look smart for starting the hole thing back in the 50s.
As for this La-Mans crap, GM may or may not take over all and  don't give a damn

No Ford  product did,the mad it just for the race.
a  "product" is something you can buy at dealer.


I know a Corvette will never do it,it's a sports car and a real car that you can go buy not a prototype.

If you like AUDIs so much get one, I bet I can spank the crap out of a 02 AUDI with any year Vette from 53 to 03.

byron2112,keep an eye out GM has some good stuff on the way,I got to see a SSR Wed.
327ci w/700R4,4:11s and a hell of alot of room to go faster.
Old farts may love the new T-barf but this thing is the next dream car.

BTW:"This nut took
             a chevette and stuffed a Cadillac 492 into it(with dashboard delete of course)put some slicks on it and dipped into the
             10's,all for a little over 4 grand.It was funny,they raced it against a new vette(smoked it)just to emphasize the
             performance per dollar factor"

What is  performance? can this nut go left and stop at a red light,
or is this just a hotrod mag in need of crap to put in it's book?

I am sure you could find some Viper owners who would disagree with your comments

for you vette lovers...yuck..[:)]
[url]http://www.rogerscorvette.com/history.htm[/url]
lot of nice info on vettes

Hey your right ,the ZO6 is hot!Maybe the best performace car for the $ in the world.

The 2003 Cobra(whether it apeals to you or not)is also gonna be a great value.Looks like it outperforms the base vette(close to the ZO6)for about $35,000.I've read alot of people that payed 50 grand for the Cobra R are gonna be pissed cause this car is near equal.

Anyhow I don't know what a ZO6 costs(50 grand?)but it doesn't matter.A Mustang is still a Mustang no matter how powerfull the engine,A Vette is a whole different thing,a sleek, sexy 2 seat sports car.I've dreamed of having one since I was a kid,I'm sure most have.

I'd like to own a C5 someday.Talk about value,good used low mileage vettes are UNDER 30 grand now!

Maybe someday. :0)

What magazine were you shown that said it had a 396 chevy motor in it ?

smarty pants

I only wanted to give some facts on Le Mans cause you brought it up.

I'm not sure what your tryin to say,but those C5-R GTS class vettes that won at Le Mans this year are not even close to the same car you buy off the showroom.Different wheelbase,track,suspension.The LS1's punched out to 427 ci(amongst other things)different body.Sorta like a Trans Am car(for comparison)The GT class would be more of a factory stock hotrod(with cage,fuel cell ect...)

You are correct in the fact that Vette's have won many SCCA production class championships(here on their home turf),they just never went overseas and ran races like Spa,Monza,Nurburgring,LeMans and such.Something IMO required of a car calling itself America's sportscar(getting out in the world and beating the best.)

Anyhow back in the 60's(golden age of road racing)GM unfortunatly ,had a ban on factory racing,meanwhile Ford was in th midst of their"Total Performance" era ,with GT350 R's,Cobra's,Cobra coups and of course GT40 Mk's.Ford totally backed their program and with Shelby's help dominated the world, winning the World Manufacturer's Championship and dominating LeMans and all of road racing for a number of years.(the only American make to do so)But thats another story.

GM did start to build the Grand Sports to challange the Cobra's,but pulled the plug before they ever raced for the factory.They got out into private hands,but never won anything significant.They're sort of an urban legend of what might have been-1900 lbs, with an all aluminum 377ci. small block.Hemi heads,twin distributors and port injection making 550 hp(in 1963!ouch)an engine that was never fitted.

I would submit to you that the Vipers got out of racing because #1 its epensive and #2they had nothing left to prove.Much like Ford at the end of the 60's they moved on after proving their point.Now its Corvettes turn.

Doesn't really matter to me which motor was in the bullit Mustang, but anyone who thinks a 390 Ford motor will keep up with a Chevy 396, is smoking crack...

Ford big blocks have way too much rotating weight, and the cylinder heads are too small...

Big block Chevy motors will run circles around Ford motors...

Don't believe me ?
Just go to any dragstrip in the U.S.
You will see for yourself...

BTW...

As earlier mentioned, you will gain 6 cubic inches when boring a 390 .030 over...
Maybe that's where the confusion is...

Sorry, no. Big block Chevys never could compete with the 427 and 429 Fords. You go to a dragstrip you see no Fords because Fords are expensive and hard to find, once Ford got out of the performance at all costs business when they fired Iaccoca they REALLY got out. The parts dried up. Not till the eighties did extensive performance parts reappear for older Fords. And even then they were more expensive.

Even within GM itself, serious performance people used the Pontiac and Oldsmobile V8's and the GM "corporate" block used by pro-stockers today, and also by Allan Johnsons top fuel machines (untill he switched to Toyota) are a decendant of the Oldsmobile 455cid block.

Chevrolets small block design was a breakthrough and years ahead of its time, which is why it is still in use today, but the big blocks were a dog compared to other makes, including other GM brands.

Check the underside of the console lid for the option codes...

The gear ratio is a "G" code...
"G80" means positraction rear...
The ratio code will be something like "GT4" or "GU6"...
Call yur local Chevy dealer, and ask the parts guy to look-up a set of gears for your car...
He will ask for the option code, and will be able to tell you what the ratio is...

You could also crawl under the car, pull the cover, and count the teeth on the gears [:D]

All the factory stick cars had a numerically higher gear ratio in them...

My '86 IROC TPI had an automatic, and 3.23 gears in the rear...

My '84 Z-28 305-4bbl H.O. had a 5-speed, and 3.73's in the rear...

My '88 305TBI/AT only had 2.73's in it...

Depending which size ring gear you have in the rear (7.75" or 7.625")
You could have a 2.73,2.77,3.23,3.27,3.42,3.45, or 3.73 ratio...
I'm pretty sure they didn't use the 3.08's in the Camaros...(I could be wrong though)

The beefier rear with the 7.75" ring gear was fairly rare, and only came with 2.77's, 3.27's and 3.45's...
It 'sorta looked like a Dana 44 rear, but was mfg'd by Borg-Warner...

13's should be easy with your combo...

If you haven't tried it yet, throw some Nitrous to it and have some REAL fun...

I've been building & tuning Nitrous motors for years now...
DEFINATELY the most horsepower per dollar you can buy...

Email me if you need any Nitrous advice...[:D]


ART

Big Blocks were a dog ???
Huh ???
That's so far out in left field, I'm not even going to respond to that...


You are absolutely correct in stating that the Pro-stock boys are using an "Oldsmobile style" BLOCK...

The only REASON they use this block is because the pan rails are wider than a stock BBC block...
This allows them to use custom made wide "kickout" oil pans, longer stroke BIG BLOCK CHEVY CRANKS, and longer BIG BLOCK CHEVY RODS...
The Olds DRCE block also has a +.400" raised cam bore allowing a larger base cirle BIG BLOCK CHEVY CAMSHAFT...

The Top Fuel boys are running Chrysler Hemi style motors made of solid billet aluminum, not anything GM...

As far as the big block Ford debate, I just know from my own experience and observations over the years...
15+ years in machine shops and building Dragracing engines for myself and many others...

I've seen guys dump 20k into a Big Block Ford with stroker cranks, Motorsport heads, and all the high dollar goodies, only to get spanked at the dragstrip by guys with Chevelles, Camaros, and Novas running mild Big blocks with a $500 Nitrous kit...

I laugh every time I see a guy "trying" to get a good run down the track with a Big Block Ford...


The Big Block Chevy motor is/was just as famous as it's little brother...
Very powerful and reliable...

They've put BBC's in cars from '65 to'73, and they've always been available in the Chevy trucks...

Hell, you can even find BBC motors in school busses, dump trucks,  and offshore racing boats...


Sorry for highjacking the thread [:D]
I'll shut-up now...

yeah lets look at the drag strip(NHRA current record holders)
A/Stock:  [email protected] Fairlane with a 427
B/Stock: 10.31.....67 Fairlane with a 427
B/Stock: 130.64mph..69 Mustang with a 428
We won't even talk about NASCAR in the 60's.
Only competition the big block Fords had was from the Mopar boys.

Heads too small?  You must have never seen high-riser or tunnel port 427 heads not to mention the monster SOHC.  If we look at the 385 series big block Fords it gets worse as heads like the 429SCJ were slow because the heads were too big.

Like was said all ready, only reason you don't see mant big block Ford FE motors anymore is because of price and collectability.

Nowadays with engine improvements it is hard to justify most big block V8s in drag racing except in the professional classes. I can stroke a 351 Windsor and have it run as hard as an older big block and not spend a fortune on parts.

That 427 is what made the GT40 so successfull.They pulled it right outta nascar.It'd make an honest 500 hp at a reasonable RPM,and make it all day long.FIA eventually had to limit displacment from 7 to 5 liter cause no one could compete.But Ford just came back with the 289 cobra motor,4 webers and 380 hp all day long.And they were world champs once again.

Damn, guys.  Settle down.

I like the concept for the new 'stang.  Looks good.  Should be plenty fast.  I would guess they'll go with some variation of the 5.4.  (Which, rumor has, the Marauder is going to get too, eventually, though it's getting the Cobra 4.6 to start out with.)

I also like 'vettes.  Look sharp.  Plenty fast.  Expensive toy.  Not really in the same class as a Mustang.  Never has been.

Camaros I can take or leave.  Chevy makes a good motor, but I've not been to fond of the build quality on the rest of the car.  I'm also a little pissed at GM for putting the Impala name on that FWD abomination they're selling now.

Vipers?  Sweet.  Especially the lingenfelter's.  Ungodly ammounts of power.  Even MORE expensive.  Nowhere near the class of a mustang, even a top of the line Saleen.

Bimmers?  Probably the best ALL AROUND cars on the road, period.  I want one.  M5.  To be a little more realistic, 330Ci.  Test drove one of these.  Put my hand on the strut tower while the salesman revved it up to 3500 RPM.  Felt like the car was OFF.  Truly amazing.


[b]ANYWAY...[/b]  My point here is, the Ford vs. Chevy vs. Mopar thing is retarded.  I like cars.  I especially like cars that do whatever they were designed to do very well.  And that could mean going fast, going off road, hauling things, or just keeping you comfortable.

So all of you people...  [b]GET A LIFE![/b]  [:)]

Make that an M3.  Or an M5.  Those are NICE cars.

lol, yes, the M3 is an awesome machine.

but I was keeping my "dream" a bit more 'realistic'.  If i were to win the lottery, an M3 would be one of the first things on my list... and you can damn sure know that I'd buy it with the German Delivery program.. nothing like tearing up Europe for a  month... and don't forget the Autobahn.......[sex]

Oh, and a German friend of mine tells me that the track at Nurburgring is open to drive on... whooooo hoooooo!

This is in response to earlier posts...

I had a '66 mustang coupe 289, Holley 2 bbl big throat (450 cfm), stock tires.

I raced a GMC Cyclone with only the driver (I had 2 passengers) and was door to door all the way with him.

The bad part is that I accidentally ran the next signal because I couldn't stop fast enough (drums all around).  Rolled right thru it and was able to turn right.