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Link Posted: 4/20/2016 1:06:51 PM EDT

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At the time the allegation by those who uncovered the warrant application is that there was PC but it was not acted upon primarily out of laziness. I have no idea what the truth is, I'm just retelling the facts of the coverup theory as I can recall them.



ETA: One thing that was certain is that the department denied the fact that such an investigation and application ever existed, hence the coverup.
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Quoted:





Interesting.
So there wasn't enough probable cause to get the warrant sign.
I suppose they could have made up some shit to get enough for a warrant.  Would that be OK?
 




At the time the allegation by those who uncovered the warrant application is that there was PC but it was not acted upon primarily out of laziness. I have no idea what the truth is, I'm just retelling the facts of the coverup theory as I can recall them.



ETA: One thing that was certain is that the department denied the fact that such an investigation and application ever existed, hence the coverup.
...and I appreciate that... My post/question was more rhetorical.  



 
Link Posted: 4/20/2016 1:09:46 PM EDT
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It was supposed to be a bombing, then they were going to wait in the parking lot to shoot people running out and first responders. They had tested and successfully detonated several bombs, but between their testing and when they started final preps for the attack the watches they were using for timers had been switched from metal hands to plastic. So when they wired them they didn't go off. When the bombing failed they started shooting
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You've done your homework.
Link Posted: 4/20/2016 1:10:52 PM EDT
IBTL
Link Posted: 4/20/2016 1:11:43 PM EDT
Ost for later
Link Posted: 4/20/2016 1:14:20 PM EDT
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if it disappeared and was never acted on how do you know he had bomb making materials. how do you even know about its existence?
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The cover up that local law enforcement tried to pull in the aftermath was shameful.


What cover up?  Need some details as I don't remember anything unless we're talking about some "jet fuel won't melt steel" thing.


A year before the murders the police had a warrant to search Harris' house (which contained bombs and bomb-making materials, and he was on probation at the time too).  That warrant was never acted on and it later "disappeared."  Then afterward the police denied its existence.  

May have prevented the whole thing if they'd done their job.



if it disappeared and was never acted on how do you know he had bomb making materials. how do you even know about its existence?


They admitted later on it existed.  This all came out in '01, two years after.
Link Posted: 4/20/2016 1:15:26 PM EDT
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They admitted later on it existed.  This all came out in '01, two years after.
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The cover up that local law enforcement tried to pull in the aftermath was shameful.


What cover up?  Need some details as I don't remember anything unless we're talking about some "jet fuel won't melt steel" thing.


A year before the murders the police had a warrant to search Harris' house (which contained bombs and bomb-making materials, and he was on probation at the time too).  That warrant was never acted on and it later "disappeared."  Then afterward the police denied its existence.  

May have prevented the whole thing if they'd done their job.


Good chance LEO would not have found shit.   They talked about the attack for a year with their buddies in "The Trench Coat Mafia", don't know when they started acquiring supplies.   They messed around with making different types of bombs in the National Forest months before.

Day of they rigged some propane tanks to explode in a field couple miles away that never went off.  It was going to be a diversion so they would buy themselves a little more time in the school.


Local police was less then forthcoming after so people started with the "cover up".  There was a lot of criticism of LE for not going in sooner.  The shooters killed themselves and LE was still waiting outside while kids were bleeding out in the school.  I'm sure a lot of you remember the bloody kid crawling out the window on to the box truck.
if it disappeared and was never acted on how do you know he had bomb making materials. how do you even know about its existence?


They admitted later on it existed.  This all came out in '01, two years after.


Good chance LEO would not have found shit.   They talked about the attack for a year with their buddies in "The Trench Coat Mafia", don't know when they started acquiring supplies.   They messed around with making different types of bombs in the National Forest months before.

Day of they rigged some propane tanks to explode in a field couple miles away that never went off.  It was going to be a diversion so they would buy themselves a little more time in the school.


Local police was less then forthcoming after so people started with the "cover up".  There was a lot of criticism of LE for not going in sooner.  The shooters killed themselves and LE was still waiting outside while kids were bleeding out in the school.  I'm sure a lot of you remember the bloody kid crawling out the window on to the box truck.
Link Posted: 4/20/2016 1:20:31 PM EDT
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Good chance LEO would not have found shit.   They talked about the attack for a year with their buddies in "The Trench Coat Mafia", don't know when they started acquiring supplies.   They messed around with making different types of bombs in the National Forest months before.

Day of they rigged some propane tanks to explode in a field couple miles away that never went off.  It was going to be a diversion so they would buy themselves a little more time in the school.


Local police was less then forthcoming after so people started with the "cover up".  There was a lot of criticism of LE for not going in sooner.  The shooters killed themselves and LE was still waiting outside while kids were bleeding out in the school.  I'm sure a lot of you remember the bloody kid crawling out the window on to the box truck.
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Their link to the TCM is a myth, they weren't social outcasts in anyway. Klebold attended prom with a date 3 days before harris was described as being charming by his fellow students.
Link Posted: 4/20/2016 1:21:10 PM EDT
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They admitted later on it existed.  This all came out in '01, two years after.
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The cover up that local law enforcement tried to pull in the aftermath was shameful.


What cover up?  Need some details as I don't remember anything unless we're talking about some "jet fuel won't melt steel" thing.


A year before the murders the police had a warrant to search Harris' house (which contained bombs and bomb-making materials, and he was on probation at the time too).  That warrant was never acted on and it later "disappeared."  Then afterward the police denied its existence.  

May have prevented the whole thing if they'd done their job.



if it disappeared and was never acted on how do you know he had bomb making materials. how do you even know about its existence?


They admitted later on it existed.  This all came out in '01, two years after.



So they didnt deny its existence.. they acknowledged it. Or are you saying right after the event they denied it then later acknowledged it. Because no way first reports of anything are wrong.  How long did the entire investigation take? Since you haven't really provided any cites on when how why or who "they" are the idea that it was anything more than two assholes who went homicidal is laughable.
Link Posted: 4/20/2016 1:29:07 PM EDT
Hyper lame. Evidence the government lied in one situation does nothing to prove they lied in another. If ANYONE was arguing that it cannot be a coverup because the government would never lie to us, that would be a relevant debate point.

But nobody ever claimed that the government never lies.

Your move.
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Hyper lame huh?   Wow that's a good one! Lol. You silly.  
Link Posted: 4/20/2016 1:33:52 PM EDT
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My only problem with this photo is the fact they were not taken alive....Mob justice should have been administered rather then taking their own lives.



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The cheek slap on the 995 could be brutal
Link Posted: 4/20/2016 1:37:18 PM EDT
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Are you guys serious that the footage was never leaked?  Around 10 years ago I downloaded a tens of minutes long video which appeared to be surveillance video footage of them shooting people under tables, etc., right down to them sitting on the floor and shooting up through their mouths and falling over.  That was a reenactment?!?!

I can't remember if it was on my work computer or my home computer.  I'll dig around.
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Not real.  It was from some kind of movie or re-enactment.  I know the video you speak of.
Link Posted: 4/20/2016 1:38:59 PM EDT
Lots of close misses before the shooting. One of the parents got a call about an order of magazines the shooters put on his credit card or similar and never followed up on it. It also could have been much worse. Supposedly if.the bombs had worked they would have collapsed the 2nd story into the cafeteria area and killed about ten times as many people. Also the guns were straw purchased.

Eta: went back and looked it up. The gunstore the magazines were ordered from called the house and the father answered. He stated that he did not order them and did not follow up on it.

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Link Posted: 4/20/2016 1:41:39 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/20/2016 1:42:10 PM EDT
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Hyper lame huh?   Wow that's a good one! Lol. You silly.  
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Hyper lame. Evidence the government lied in one situation does nothing to prove they lied in another. If ANYONE was arguing that it cannot be a coverup because the government would never lie to us, that would be a relevant debate point.

But nobody ever claimed that the government never lies.

Your move.



Hyper lame huh?   Wow that's a good one! Lol. You silly.  

Wow, stunning demolition of my worldview.  
I concede.
Link Posted: 4/20/2016 1:50:23 PM EDT
Also according to the basement tapes transcript the parents found a pipe bomb and never told anybody. So many people fucked up at the wrong time. The parents, the people that bought them the guns and ammo, and everyone elsr that dropped the ball.

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Link Posted: 4/20/2016 1:53:49 PM EDT
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Wow, stunning demolition of my worldview.  
I concede.
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Hyper lame. Evidence the government lied in one situation does nothing to prove they lied in another. If ANYONE was arguing that it cannot be a coverup because the government would never lie to us, that would be a relevant debate point.

But nobody ever claimed that the government never lies.

Your move.



Hyper lame huh?   Wow that's a good one! Lol. You silly.  

Wow, stunning demolition of my worldview.  
I concede.


I felt the  same when you called me hyper lame.
Link Posted: 4/20/2016 1:59:02 PM EDT
That is a good book.

The "cover up" was that the sheriff's department suspected that Harris had explosives and was dangerous (because Harris wrote on his website that he had explosives and was going to kill people) and they prepared a warrant application to search his home. This was about a year before the attack.  For whatever reason, they didn't act on it.  And then, a couple of days after the attack, county officials agreed to conceal that that they knew Harris had explosive and was threatening people, and that they had filled out the warrant affidavit.  The original file was disappeared, but a copy of the warrant affidavit was found in the county archives by an investigator in 2001.
Link Posted: 4/20/2016 2:05:31 PM EDT
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Also the guns were straw purchased.
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IIRC, a girlfriend purchased two of the long arms for them, and the pistol was a private sale from a coworker.  The coworker was prosecuted for the sale, but the girlfriend wasn't, if I'm remembering that correctly.
Link Posted: 4/20/2016 2:09:50 PM EDT
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Isn't that about a mall shooting?
Link Posted: 4/20/2016 2:10:02 PM EDT
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Are you drunk?
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The cover up that local law enforcement tried to pull in the aftermath was shameful.


What cover up?  Need some details as I don't remember anything unless we're talking about some "jet fuel won't melt steel" thing.


Fucking herp durp "NATO SWAT team was there" and all sorts of conspiracy theories.  

I work with folks who responded to Columbine, I used to love about a mile away from the school,


Careful, You'll be put on a registry for that.



Are you drunk?


Are you stupid?
Link Posted: 4/20/2016 2:18:07 PM EDT
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IIRC, a girlfriend purchased two of the long arms for them, and the pistol was a private sale from a coworker.  The coworker was prosecuted for the sale, but the girlfriend wasn't, if I'm remembering that correctly.
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Also the guns were straw purchased.

IIRC, a girlfriend purchased two of the long arms for them, and the pistol was a private sale from a coworker.  The coworker was prosecuted for the sale, but the girlfriend wasn't, if I'm remembering that correctly.


The girlfriend was the chick that Klebold took to the prom three days before.  Can't imagine the hate, humiliation and regret she's had to endure (and still does probably).  The coworker--think it was their boss--yeah he got put through the ringer when prosecuted.  People were out for blood and he was the only one to go after.
Link Posted: 4/20/2016 2:20:31 PM EDT
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Isn't that about a mall shooting?
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Isn't that about a mall shooting?


Eh, close enough.
Link Posted: 4/20/2016 2:26:05 PM EDT
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Also according to the basement tapes transcript the parents found a pipe bomb and never told anybody. So many people fucked up at the wrong time. The parents, the people that bought them the guns and ammo, and everyone elsr that dropped the ball.

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That seems to be the going theme in a lot of these things.  People know these people are about to go off the rails but no one does anything.  Then because they ignored what seem to be obvious signs something is up everyone starts to say we need to be super careful and watch everyone.  I know the difference between someone that is a little off and someone who might start something.  If the guy that is a little off crosses the line into something that I should be worried about I hope I'll have the foresight to do something about it.
Link Posted: 4/20/2016 2:26:09 PM EDT
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if it disappeared and was never acted on how do you know he had bomb making materials. how do you even know about its existence?
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The cover up that local law enforcement tried to pull in the aftermath was shameful.


What cover up?  Need some details as I don't remember anything unless we're talking about some "jet fuel won't melt steel" thing.


A year before the murders the police had a warrant to search Harris' house (which contained bombs and bomb-making materials, and he was on probation at the time too).  That warrant was never acted on and it later "disappeared."  Then afterward the police denied its existence.  

May have prevented the whole thing if they'd done their job.



if it disappeared and was never acted on how do you know he had bomb making materials. how do you even know about its existence?

IIRC, when they coordinated the date of the warrant with the things in Harris's notes and the local bomb reports (pipe bombs), they suggested that a proper search might have found enough illegal materials to prosecute.
Link Posted: 4/20/2016 2:29:22 PM EDT
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I felt the  same when you called me hyper lame.
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Hyper lame. Evidence the government lied in one situation does nothing to prove they lied in another. If ANYONE was arguing that it cannot be a coverup because the government would never lie to us, that would be a relevant debate point.

But nobody ever claimed that the government never lies.

Your move.



Hyper lame huh?   Wow that's a good one! Lol. You silly.  

Wow, stunning demolition of my worldview.  
I concede.


I felt the  same when you called me hyper lame.

But of course, I went on to support my categorization by specifically destroying the logical fallacy upon which your comment rests.

Link Posted: 4/20/2016 2:36:57 PM EDT

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This photo legit?
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My only problem with this photo is the fact they were not taken alive....Mob justice should have been administered rather then taking their own lives.
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-SHbKHuz5nIg/TjBidwgJaZI/AAAAAAAAACc/AKbTH7_wWHE/s1600/deadguys2.jpg





This photo legit?
I remember seeing a short piece of surveillance video that showed one of them (Klebold I think) walking past the camera wearing those stupid calf length shorts.



Both kids in that pic are wearing long pants.



 
Link Posted: 4/20/2016 2:56:02 PM EDT
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But of course, I went on to support my categorization by specifically destroying the logical fallacy upon which your comment rests.

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Hyper lame. Evidence the government lied in one situation does nothing to prove they lied in another. If ANYONE was arguing that it cannot be a coverup because the government would never lie to us, that would be a relevant debate point.

But nobody ever claimed that the government never lies.

Your move.



Hyper lame huh?   Wow that's a good one! Lol. You silly.  

Wow, stunning demolition of my worldview.  
I concede.


I felt the  same when you called me hyper lame.

But of course, I went on to support my categorization by specifically destroying the logical fallacy upon which your comment rests.




Link Posted: 4/20/2016 3:03:02 PM EDT
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Not real.  It was from some kind of movie or re-enactment.  I know the video you speak of.
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Are you guys serious that the footage was never leaked?  Around 10 years ago I downloaded a tens of minutes long video which appeared to be surveillance video footage of them shooting people under tables, etc., right down to them sitting on the floor and shooting up through their mouths and falling over.  That was a reenactment?!?!

I can't remember if it was on my work computer or my home computer.  I'll dig around.



Not real.  It was from some kind of movie or re-enactment.  I know the video you speak of.


the footage from the school cafeteria security cameras are real. There have been a few re-enactments of the footage for movies and tv shows but you can find the real unedited cafeteria footage on youtube.com.
Link Posted: 4/20/2016 3:36:09 PM EDT
I sat in a CE on this that was given to LEO's for Mass Cas information, since I was the one who wrote the procedure and policy manuals for ER and the Blood Bank. be glad their IED's didn't go off.

it would have been 100X worse.
Link Posted: 4/20/2016 3:37:08 PM EDT
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this is my understanding as well. they we not social outcasts.

Their link to the TCM is a myth, they weren't social outcasts in anyway. Klebold attended prom with a date 3 days before harris was described as being charming by his fellow students.
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Good chance LEO would not have found shit.   They talked about the attack for a year with their buddies in "The Trench Coat Mafia", don't know when they started acquiring supplies.   They messed around with making different types of bombs in the National Forest months before.

Day of they rigged some propane tanks to explode in a field couple miles away that never went off.  It was going to be a diversion so they would buy themselves a little more time in the school.


Local police was less then forthcoming after so people started with the "cover up".  There was a lot of criticism of LE for not going in sooner.  The shooters killed themselves and LE was still waiting outside while kids were bleeding out in the school.  I'm sure a lot of you remember the bloody kid crawling out the window on to the box truck.


this is my understanding as well. they we not social outcasts.

Their link to the TCM is a myth, they weren't social outcasts in anyway. Klebold attended prom with a date 3 days before harris was described as being charming by his fellow students.

Link Posted: 4/20/2016 3:57:44 PM EDT
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I sat in a CE on this that was given to LEO's for Mass Cas information, since I was the one who wrote the procedure and policy manuals for ER and the Blood Bank. be glad their IED's didn't go off.

it would have been 100X worse.
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I honestly believe had they not been so successful with their shooting spree we wouldn't have had things like Newtown. They set the standard for school tragedies.
Link Posted: 4/20/2016 4:11:04 PM EDT

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I honestly believe had they not been so successful with their shooting spree we wouldn't have had things like Newtown. They set the standard for school tragedies.
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Quoted:

I sat in a CE on this that was given to LEO's for Mass Cas information, since I was the one who wrote the procedure and policy manuals for ER and the Blood Bank. be glad their IED's didn't go off.



it would have been 100X worse.




I honestly believe had they not been so successful with their shooting spree we wouldn't have had things like Newtown. They set the standard for school tragedies.




 
My question is "Have we gotten any smarter since then?".  Newtown would suggest that the answer is "No".  If we take that as true, the next question is "Have we gotten any smarter since Newtown?".  I'm guessing no.  I drive by a school every day, I also vote there and I see nothing that would prevent a student (or anyone else) from walking in with guns in a backpack and shooting the place up.  I see no metal detectors, I see no armed guards and I know that there are no legally armed teachers.




Instead we pass meaningless laws that make us feel good but don't address the problem in the slightest degree.  Another school shooting could happen tomorrow and we'd still do nothing about it that would work to stop the next one.
Link Posted: 4/20/2016 4:18:36 PM EDT
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  My question is "Have we gotten any smarter since then?".  Newtown would suggest that the answer is "No".  If we take that as true, the next question is "Have we gotten any smarter since Newtown?".  I'm guessing no.  I drive by a school every day, I also vote there and I see nothing that would prevent a student (or anyone else) from walking in with guns in a backpack and shooting the place up.  I see no metal detectors, I see no armed guards and I know that there are no legally armed teachers.


Instead we pass meaningless laws that make us feel good but don't address the problem in the slightest degree.  Another school shooting could happen tomorrow and we'd still do nothing about it that would work to stop the next one.
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I sat in a CE on this that was given to LEO's for Mass Cas information, since I was the one who wrote the procedure and policy manuals for ER and the Blood Bank. be glad their IED's didn't go off.

it would have been 100X worse.


I honestly believe had they not been so successful with their shooting spree we wouldn't have had things like Newtown. They set the standard for school tragedies.

  My question is "Have we gotten any smarter since then?".  Newtown would suggest that the answer is "No".  If we take that as true, the next question is "Have we gotten any smarter since Newtown?".  I'm guessing no.  I drive by a school every day, I also vote there and I see nothing that would prevent a student (or anyone else) from walking in with guns in a backpack and shooting the place up.  I see no metal detectors, I see no armed guards and I know that there are no legally armed teachers.


Instead we pass meaningless laws that make us feel good but don't address the problem in the slightest degree.  Another school shooting could happen tomorrow and we'd still do nothing about it that would work to stop the next one.


I honestly don't think there's anything we can do and maintain the idea that this is a free society. I don't want my kids going to school where they have to be searched without a warrant every day on their way in because of something that could possibly happen but isn't very likely.

There have been just over 1000 people killed since the year 2000 in active shooter situations. Statistically it's not even worth worrying about. I'd like to see teachers be able to carry, keep a local LEO on duty at the school, and live life.

Even if you put up the metal detectors and all that, all you've done is move the target from inside to outside. Some asshole drives into a crowd with a car rigged to blow and kills 100 people.

Or throws pipe bombs into the line before the metal detectors, shoots as people run out. There's a never ending way to kill people unless we want to surrender everything and live in a nationwide prison.
Link Posted: 4/20/2016 4:35:02 PM EDT
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  My question is "Have we gotten any smarter since then?".  Newtown would suggest that the answer is "No".  If we take that as true, the next question is "Have we gotten any smarter since Newtown?".  I'm guessing no.  I drive by a school every day, I also vote there and I see nothing that would prevent a student (or anyone else) from walking in with guns in a backpack and shooting the place up.  I see no metal detectors, I see no armed guards and I know that there are no legally armed teachers.


Instead we pass meaningless laws that make us feel good but don't address the problem in the slightest degree.  Another school shooting could happen tomorrow and we'd still do nothing about it that would work to stop the next one.
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I sat in a CE on this that was given to LEO's for Mass Cas information, since I was the one who wrote the procedure and policy manuals for ER and the Blood Bank. be glad their IED's didn't go off.

it would have been 100X worse.


I honestly believe had they not been so successful with their shooting spree we wouldn't have had things like Newtown. They set the standard for school tragedies.

  My question is "Have we gotten any smarter since then?".  Newtown would suggest that the answer is "No".  If we take that as true, the next question is "Have we gotten any smarter since Newtown?".  I'm guessing no.  I drive by a school every day, I also vote there and I see nothing that would prevent a student (or anyone else) from walking in with guns in a backpack and shooting the place up.  I see no metal detectors, I see no armed guards and I know that there are no legally armed teachers.


Instead we pass meaningless laws that make us feel good but don't address the problem in the slightest degree.  Another school shooting could happen tomorrow and we'd still do nothing about it that would work to stop the next one.

Well I've gotten smarter.  My kids are homeschooled.
Link Posted: 4/20/2016 4:39:26 PM EDT


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That was the day of the attack, the warrant was for long before,  The question is, how does anyone know there would be bomb making materials so long before the acted.
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A year before the murders the police had a warrant to search Harris' house (which contained bombs and bomb-making materials, and he was on probation at the time too).  That warrant was never acted on and it later "disappeared."  Then afterward the police denied its existence.  





May have prevented the whole thing if they'd done their job.



if it disappeared and was never acted on how do you know he had bomb making materials. how do you even know about its existence?



  Pretty sure they found homemade bombs inside and outside of the school.  





That was the day of the attack, the warrant was for long before,  The question is, how does anyone know there would be bomb making materials so long before the acted.
If I remember correctly, Dylan Klebold had a falling out with a friend and had made some threats that the kid's mother reported to police. Included in the report she'd said that her son had seen pipe bombs in his possession, or at least had knowledge that Dylan was making bombs. The police spoke with Klebold, but never investigated further and eventually the whole thing blew over. I might be sketchy on the details, but it was something along those lines, then after Columbine the original report the mother had filed went missing.

 
 
Link Posted: 4/20/2016 4:44:52 PM EDT
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I honestly believe had they not been so successful with their shooting spree we wouldn't have had things like Newtown. They set the standard for school tragedies.
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I sat in a CE on this that was given to LEO's for Mass Cas information, since I was the one who wrote the procedure and policy manuals for ER and the Blood Bank. be glad their IED's didn't go off.

it would have been 100X worse.


I honestly believe had they not been so successful with their shooting spree we wouldn't have had things like Newtown. They set the standard for school tragedies.


You're right.  In fact they've become cult figures to subsequent high-profile school shooters.
Link Posted: 4/20/2016 4:54:31 PM EDT

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It was supposed to be a bombing, then they were going to wait in the parking lot to shoot people running out and first responders. They had tested and successfully detonated several bombs, but between their testing and when they started final preps for the attack the watches they were using for timers had been switched from metal hands to plastic. So when they wired them they didn't go off. When the bombing failed they started shooting
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Not watch hands it was the alarm clock bells.
Link Posted: 4/20/2016 5:01:20 PM EDT
Back when I was in High School, people had rifles on racks in their trucks, carried knives in their pockets and nobody thought anything about it............

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I remember it was a watershed moment when schools went from places where kids had fun to maximum security prisons of social engineering.

I used to bring my rifle to school and leave it at the safe so it wouldn't get stolen from my truck.
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When I first moved to Colorado I lived less than 10 minutes from Columbine High School.  I was home that day.  I remember hearing all of the sirens and walking outside to see all of the first responders racing through the streets. Watching it on TV  live.  Terrible tragedy.  I hope that the families of the victims have found peace in their lives.  I still believe that Dave Sanders was a hero that day as well as the two janitors Jon Curtis and Jay Gallentine.  What a horrible day that was.......

I remember it was a watershed moment when schools went from places where kids had fun to maximum security prisons of social engineering.

I used to bring my rifle to school and leave it at the safe so it wouldn't get stolen from my truck.

Link Posted: 4/20/2016 5:08:42 PM EDT
Here is a picture of our jukebox heroes in their 1999 class picture - - take note of the other guy circled, it's the guy from the Jacksonville Jaguars exasperated fan meme



Link Posted: 4/21/2016 12:57:41 AM EDT
Bump for more columbine info. I grew up in Aurora and remember my dad calling me in from playing outside with a toy Uzi the day it happened.
Link Posted: 4/21/2016 2:16:05 AM EDT
Any civil action against Leo for protocol that kept them outside so long?
Link Posted: 4/21/2016 8:09:37 AM EDT
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Any civil action against Leo for protocol that kept them outside so long?
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No, why would there be? They had never dealt with a situation like this, if I'm remembering it correctly they were thinking it was a hostage situation. They didn't realize there was no other goal than to kill people.
Link Posted: 4/21/2016 8:39:35 AM EDT


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Any civil action against Leo for protocol that kept them outside so long?
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No offense meant, but sheesh dude, even our office secretary knows that Columbine was a game changer for LE emergency response.  Maybe I don't exactly know what you're asking?  Lawsuits?  Probably, but everyone sues every one these days.  I don't remember anything about a payout if there was though.

How about this?  Obama (fbho) is footing the bill to send ALERT and a small FBI team to give your local LEOs a free active shooter response training class.  It's a pretty good one at that.



Link Posted: 4/21/2016 8:59:49 AM EDT
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Dead's dead.
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My only problem with this photo is the fact they were not taken alive....Mob justice should have been administered rather then taking their own lives.



http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-SHbKHuz5nIg/TjBidwgJaZI/AAAAAAAAACc/AKbTH7_wWHE/s1600/deadguys2.jpg


Dead's dead.


Maybe......but when the survivors are unable to see justice actually served to those responsible for the crimes, they tend to focus their attention on other things.....like the tools used, or some 3rd party......
Link Posted: 4/21/2016 9:24:52 AM EDT
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The girlfriend was the chick that Klebold took to the prom three days before.  Can't imagine the hate, humiliation and regret she's had to endure (and still does probably).  The coworker--think it was their boss--yeah he got put through the ringer when prosecuted.  People were out for blood and he was the only one to go after.
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Also the guns were straw purchased.

IIRC, a girlfriend purchased two of the long arms for them, and the pistol was a private sale from a coworker.  The coworker was prosecuted for the sale, but the girlfriend wasn't, if I'm remembering that correctly.


The girlfriend was the chick that Klebold took to the prom three days before.  Can't imagine the hate, humiliation and regret she's had to endure (and still does probably).  The coworker--think it was their boss--yeah he got put through the ringer when prosecuted.  People were out for blood and he was the only one to go after.


I thought the guy that sold them the Tec-9 claimed he had first met them in the woods, when he and they happened to be out shooting at the same time.  

If my memory isn't off, he also stated (after he was charged) that he now believed his mother was right.  His mother was supposedly a contributing supporter of Handgun Control Inc.
Link Posted: 4/21/2016 9:31:34 AM EDT
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I thought the guy that sold them the Tec-9 claimed he had first met them in the woods, when he and they happened to be out shooting at the same time.  

If my memory isn't off, he also stated (after he was charged) that he now believed his mother was right.  His mother was supposedly a contributing supporter of Handgun Control Inc.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Also the guns were straw purchased.

IIRC, a girlfriend purchased two of the long arms for them, and the pistol was a private sale from a coworker.  The coworker was prosecuted for the sale, but the girlfriend wasn't, if I'm remembering that correctly.


The girlfriend was the chick that Klebold took to the prom three days before.  Can't imagine the hate, humiliation and regret she's had to endure (and still does probably).  The coworker--think it was their boss--yeah he got put through the ringer when prosecuted.  People were out for blood and he was the only one to go after.


I thought the guy that sold them the Tec-9 claimed he had first met them in the woods, when he and they happened to be out shooting at the same time.  

If my memory isn't off, he also stated (after he was charged) that he now believed his mother was right.  His mother was supposedly a contributing supporter of Handgun Control Inc.



http://www.vpc.org/studies/wgun990420.htm

Where'd They Get Their Guns?

An Analysis of the Firearms Used in High-Profile Shootings, 1963 to 2001

Date: April 20, 1999

Location: Columbine High School, Littleton, Colorado

Alleged Shooters: Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold

People Killed: 15 (shooters committed suicide)

People Injured: 23

Firearm(s): Intratec TEC-DC9 assault pistol, Hi-Point 9mm Carbine, Savage 67H pump-action shotgun, and a Savage 311-D 12-gauge shotgun


Circumstances

The two students walked through their high school at lunchtime on April 20, 1999, shooting at classmates and teachers before killing themselves. Twelve students and one teacher were killed. In addition to their firearms, they had scattered an assortment of explosive devices throughout the school, many of which did not detonate.


How Firearm(s) Acquired

Robyn Anderson, a friend of Klebold and Harris, bought the shotguns and the Hi-Point 9mm Carbine at The Tanner Gun Show in December of 1998 from unlicensed sellers. Because Anderson purchased the guns for someone else, the transition constituted an illegal "straw purchase." Klebold and Harris bought the TEC-DC9 from a pizza shop employee named Mark Manes, who knew they were too young to purchase the assault pistol, but nevertheless sold it to them for $500.



David Olinger, "Following the Guns," The Denver Post Online, 1 August 1999.
David Olinger et al., "Arrests Possible in Pistol Sale; Authorities to Interview Suspected Gun Provider," The Denver Post, 30 April 1999, sec. A, p. 1.
Mark Obmascik et al., "Tracing a Deadly Trail; Officials Say Girlfriend Bought Guns," The Denver Post, 27 April 1999, sec. A, p. 1.
David Ottaway, "With Often Arcane Tools, U.S. Agency Traces Littleton Guns," The Washington Post, 30 April 1999, sec. A, p. 6.
David Olinger and Peter Chronis, "Guns Used in Attack Believed Bought Through Private Deals," The Denver Post, 24 April 1999, sec. A, p. 13.



Probably some liberal anti site but it's early and I'm lazy
Link Posted: 4/21/2016 9:37:35 AM EDT
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Quoted:



http://www.vpc.org/studies/wgun990420.htm

Where'd They Get Their Guns?

An Analysis of the Firearms Used in High-Profile Shootings, 1963 to 2001

Date: April 20, 1999

Location: Columbine High School, Littleton, Colorado

Alleged Shooters: Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold

People Killed: 15 (shooters committed suicide)

People Injured: 23

Firearm(s): Intratec TEC-DC9 assault pistol, Hi-Point 9mm Carbine, Savage 67H pump-action shotgun, and a Savage 311-D 12-gauge shotgun


Circumstances

The two students walked through their high school at lunchtime on April 20, 1999, shooting at classmates and teachers before killing themselves. Twelve students and one teacher were killed. In addition to their firearms, they had scattered an assortment of explosive devices throughout the school, many of which did not detonate.


How Firearm(s) Acquired

Robyn Anderson, a friend of Klebold and Harris, bought the shotguns and the Hi-Point 9mm Carbine at The Tanner Gun Show in December of 1998 from unlicensed sellers. Because Anderson purchased the guns for someone else, the transition constituted an illegal "straw purchase." Klebold and Harris bought the TEC-DC9 from a pizza shop employee named Mark Manes, who knew they were too young to purchase the assault pistol, but nevertheless sold it to them for $500.



David Olinger, "Following the Guns," The Denver Post Online, 1 August 1999.
David Olinger et al., "Arrests Possible in Pistol Sale; Authorities to Interview Suspected Gun Provider," The Denver Post, 30 April 1999, sec. A, p. 1.
Mark Obmascik et al., "Tracing a Deadly Trail; Officials Say Girlfriend Bought Guns," The Denver Post, 27 April 1999, sec. A, p. 1.
David Ottaway, "With Often Arcane Tools, U.S. Agency Traces Littleton Guns," The Washington Post, 30 April 1999, sec. A, p. 6.
David Olinger and Peter Chronis, "Guns Used in Attack Believed Bought Through Private Deals," The Denver Post, 24 April 1999, sec. A, p. 13.



Probably some liberal anti site but it's early and I'm lazy
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Also the guns were straw purchased.

IIRC, a girlfriend purchased two of the long arms for them, and the pistol was a private sale from a coworker.  The coworker was prosecuted for the sale, but the girlfriend wasn't, if I'm remembering that correctly.


The girlfriend was the chick that Klebold took to the prom three days before.  Can't imagine the hate, humiliation and regret she's had to endure (and still does probably).  The coworker--think it was their boss--yeah he got put through the ringer when prosecuted.  People were out for blood and he was the only one to go after.


I thought the guy that sold them the Tec-9 claimed he had first met them in the woods, when he and they happened to be out shooting at the same time.  

If my memory isn't off, he also stated (after he was charged) that he now believed his mother was right.  His mother was supposedly a contributing supporter of Handgun Control Inc.



http://www.vpc.org/studies/wgun990420.htm

Where'd They Get Their Guns?

An Analysis of the Firearms Used in High-Profile Shootings, 1963 to 2001

Date: April 20, 1999

Location: Columbine High School, Littleton, Colorado

Alleged Shooters: Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold

People Killed: 15 (shooters committed suicide)

People Injured: 23

Firearm(s): Intratec TEC-DC9 assault pistol, Hi-Point 9mm Carbine, Savage 67H pump-action shotgun, and a Savage 311-D 12-gauge shotgun


Circumstances

The two students walked through their high school at lunchtime on April 20, 1999, shooting at classmates and teachers before killing themselves. Twelve students and one teacher were killed. In addition to their firearms, they had scattered an assortment of explosive devices throughout the school, many of which did not detonate.


How Firearm(s) Acquired

Robyn Anderson, a friend of Klebold and Harris, bought the shotguns and the Hi-Point 9mm Carbine at The Tanner Gun Show in December of 1998 from unlicensed sellers. Because Anderson purchased the guns for someone else, the transition constituted an illegal "straw purchase." Klebold and Harris bought the TEC-DC9 from a pizza shop employee named Mark Manes, who knew they were too young to purchase the assault pistol, but nevertheless sold it to them for $500.



David Olinger, "Following the Guns," The Denver Post Online, 1 August 1999.
David Olinger et al., "Arrests Possible in Pistol Sale; Authorities to Interview Suspected Gun Provider," The Denver Post, 30 April 1999, sec. A, p. 1.
Mark Obmascik et al., "Tracing a Deadly Trail; Officials Say Girlfriend Bought Guns," The Denver Post, 27 April 1999, sec. A, p. 1.
David Ottaway, "With Often Arcane Tools, U.S. Agency Traces Littleton Guns," The Washington Post, 30 April 1999, sec. A, p. 6.
David Olinger and Peter Chronis, "Guns Used in Attack Believed Bought Through Private Deals," The Denver Post, 24 April 1999, sec. A, p. 13.



Probably some liberal anti site but it's early and I'm lazy


This whole thread is interesting, but WTF is an "assault pistol"
Link Posted: 4/21/2016 9:41:59 AM EDT
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  My question is "Have we gotten any smarter since then?".  Newtown would suggest that the answer is "No".  If we take that as true, the next question is "Have we gotten any smarter since Newtown?".  I'm guessing no.  I drive by a school every day, I also vote there and I see nothing that would prevent a student (or anyone else) from walking in with guns in a backpack and shooting the place up.  I see no metal detectors, I see no armed guards and I know that there are no legally armed teachers.


Instead we pass meaningless laws that make us feel good but don't address the problem in the slightest degree.  Another school shooting could happen tomorrow and we'd still do nothing about it that would work to stop the next one.
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I sat in a CE on this that was given to LEO's for Mass Cas information, since I was the one who wrote the procedure and policy manuals for ER and the Blood Bank. be glad their IED's didn't go off.

it would have been 100X worse.


I honestly believe had they not been so successful with their shooting spree we wouldn't have had things like Newtown. They set the standard for school tragedies.

  My question is "Have we gotten any smarter since then?".  Newtown would suggest that the answer is "No".  If we take that as true, the next question is "Have we gotten any smarter since Newtown?".  I'm guessing no.  I drive by a school every day, I also vote there and I see nothing that would prevent a student (or anyone else) from walking in with guns in a backpack and shooting the place up.  I see no metal detectors, I see no armed guards and I know that there are no legally armed teachers.


Instead we pass meaningless laws that make us feel good but don't address the problem in the slightest degree.  Another school shooting could happen tomorrow and we'd still do nothing about it that would work to stop the next one.


The Newton nutcase had to get past a 'security door' that had top be unlocked by pushing a button in the school office.

He simply fired at the floor to ceiling window next to the door, then stepped through the hole he had just made in the safety glass.  

The elementary school closest to me, has a very similar entrance.  My daughter went there, and I vote there.  I have noticed no changes that would increase the security of the entrance beyond the level of an illusion of safety.

My daughter's high school had similar locks, but was an older building with no 'inviting, open, glass entrance'.  While dropping her off, I frequently saw students let another student in the back door, so that they didn't have to walk around the building to the front door.  Once in a while, I would see the back door propped open with a chair.

My daughter is now in college, and during new student orientation, the head of campus security gave a speech where he stated that their security measures mean nothing, if the students decide that it's just too much of a hassle to deal with swiping their ID to unlock a door, and start propping doors open.  Didn't take long after she became a student there, for me to see examples of what he had been talking about.  She's even had to lecture her current roommate, because the girl is so absent minded (or just irresponsible) that she walks off and leaves their dorm room unlocked (left it unlocked when she went home for spring break, even after they had a nighttime incident of two guys somehow getting into the building and knocking on doors to see if any girls would let them spend the night).
Link Posted: 4/21/2016 9:45:45 AM EDT
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Back when I was in High School, people had rifles on racks in their trucks, carried knives in their pockets and nobody thought anything about it............


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Back when I was in High School, people had rifles on racks in their trucks, carried knives in their pockets and nobody thought anything about it............

Quoted:
Quoted:
When I first moved to Colorado I lived less than 10 minutes from Columbine High School.  I was home that day.  I remember hearing all of the sirens and walking outside to see all of the first responders racing through the streets. Watching it on TV  live.  Terrible tragedy.  I hope that the families of the victims have found peace in their lives.  I still believe that Dave Sanders was a hero that day as well as the two janitors Jon Curtis and Jay Gallentine.  What a horrible day that was.......

I remember it was a watershed moment when schools went from places where kids had fun to maximum security prisons of social engineering.

I used to bring my rifle to school and leave it at the safe so it wouldn't get stolen from my truck.



Knives in their pockets?  Some guys at my school had 3 or 3.5 inch lockblades in belt pouches.  I had two teachers that asked to borrow mine to open something, a few times.  The shop teacher allowed at least a couple people to bring rifles or shotguns in to work on the stocks.
Link Posted: 4/21/2016 9:52:27 AM EDT
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This whole thread is interesting, but WTF is an "assault pistol"
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Quoted:
Quoted:


I thought the guy that sold them the Tec-9 claimed he had first met them in the woods, when he and they happened to be out shooting at the same time.  

If my memory isn't off, he also stated (after he was charged) that he now believed his mother was right.  His mother was supposedly a contributing supporter of Handgun Control Inc.



http://www.vpc.org/studies/wgun990420.htm

Where'd They Get Their Guns?

An Analysis of the Firearms Used in High-Profile Shootings, 1963 to 2001

Date: April 20, 1999

Location: Columbine High School, Littleton, Colorado

Alleged Shooters: Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold

People Killed: 15 (shooters committed suicide)

People Injured: 23

Firearm(s): Intratec TEC-DC9 assault pistol, Hi-Point 9mm Carbine, Savage 67H pump-action shotgun, and a Savage 311-D 12-gauge shotgun


Circumstances

The two students walked through their high school at lunchtime on April 20, 1999, shooting at classmates and teachers before killing themselves. Twelve students and one teacher were killed. In addition to their firearms, they had scattered an assortment of explosive devices throughout the school, many of which did not detonate.


How Firearm(s) Acquired

Robyn Anderson, a friend of Klebold and Harris, bought the shotguns and the Hi-Point 9mm Carbine at The Tanner Gun Show in December of 1998 from unlicensed sellers. Because Anderson purchased the guns for someone else, the transition constituted an illegal "straw purchase." Klebold and Harris bought the TEC-DC9 from a pizza shop employee named Mark Manes, who knew they were too young to purchase the assault pistol, but nevertheless sold it to them for $500.



David Olinger, "Following the Guns," The Denver Post Online, 1 August 1999.
David Olinger et al., "Arrests Possible in Pistol Sale; Authorities to Interview Suspected Gun Provider," The Denver Post, 30 April 1999, sec. A, p. 1.
Mark Obmascik et al., "Tracing a Deadly Trail; Officials Say Girlfriend Bought Guns," The Denver Post, 27 April 1999, sec. A, p. 1.
David Ottaway, "With Often Arcane Tools, U.S. Agency Traces Littleton Guns," The Washington Post, 30 April 1999, sec. A, p. 6.
David Olinger and Peter Chronis, "Guns Used in Attack Believed Bought Through Private Deals," The Denver Post, 24 April 1999, sec. A, p. 13.



Probably some liberal anti site but it's early and I'm lazy


This whole thread is interesting, but WTF is an "assault pistol"


The Tec-9 was one of the handguns that were banned by the 1994 Assault Weapons Ban.  Intratec simply did away with the threaded muzzle and barrel shroud, and renamed it the Tec-DC9.

Same reasoning that the news media uses for calling the AR-15 an "assault rifle" - a bullshit law (that has since expired) said that's what it is.
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