As I posted earlier in this thread, I own a BMW and I think it is a great car.  I can't think of another brand of car in the price range that I would rather own.  However, when you get into higher end cars there is more stuff that can go wrong, so high-end and maintenance free do not necessarily go hand in hand.  But then again, that's why they have warranties.  Although in my 36000 miles so far, I've only had two maintenance issues.  The power steering pump went out and the electronic trip meter would not reset.

No flame intended, I tend to be a little abrasive, thanks for not taking it badly.

On topic:
I will try and look for that link tomorrow when I'm at work if I've got time.

From an avid BMW/Porsche racer:

If you want to save a few $$$ on a BMW and get the most for your money:  Get the 330Ci vice the M3.

The average driver will not see an appreciable difference in acceleration around town or on the highway between the two.

I think they are a few thousand apart, but the gearing and such in the 330Ci makes it seem like it is as quick as the M3 -- assuming you're clutch/driving skills are not like Mario Andretti or Dale Earnhardt.

Once you get to 100mph though the M3 will SHINE...or if you are a closet auto-xer...

YMMV....this source has considerable knowledge and drives a 330Ci daily -- with a 911 Turbo, 928, 944 Turbo, E30 M3, and E46 M3 in the stable I think he has a good knowledge base with which to judge these things -- not to mention the actual club race cars he has. [:D]

I dunno, from the website it's a $10k difference , $36k for the 330 vs $46k for the M3, plust the M3 is going to have the asshole fee tacked on ("oh no sir, this is a very rare car, we need to charge you an extra $10k for that").
I'm not quite sure how a 225 horsepower engine is going to feel quite the same as a 333 horsepower engine either.  Maybe in standard start/stop traffic, but I would expect the M3 to stomp the nuts out of the 330 pedal to the metal.

M3 0-60 4.7 seconds +/-
330 o-60 6.4 seconds +/-
Seems like a pretty big difference to me.

I have had my BMW 528I for 3 yrs.

Anyone from the DFW crew can tell you, it's one hell of a car.  The Hun Farm can attest to that.

I would not buy anything else in it's price range.

I LOVE to drive, and there is a reason it is sets the benchmark for sports sedans.  

Dpeacher can attest to it's acceleration from 70 to 100.

I have 80k miles, and truly love driving it now as much as I did the first day.

It is expensive to work on, but I know the engine is good for at least another 100k miles.

TXL

Check out a Jag. I have an xkr convertible and I love it!

TT [wave]

I just bought an Infiniti G35 coupe and cannot be happier!  I drove the BMW, Mercedes, Acura, Lexus and Audi and came away with a huge smile on my face with the G35!  Price cannot be beat and the engine is second to none (for the price).  

The BMW 330's are being beaten by the G35's recently.  I think it is really worth your time to test drive one, especially to save the money on a BETTER car. [;)] Then again, I'm biased!  

My main choices in the end were the 330i performance package (M tuned) and the Infiniti coupe.  Coupe was clearly better after my drive.

Finally, STAY THE FUCK AWAY FROM JAGUAR!  They are garbage and will give you problems.

And yet another thread where I can post a pic of my baby!
[img]http://g35driver.com/rides/spec/pix/Balzac72_1055535541.jpg[/img]
[img]http://g35driver.com/rides/spec/pix/Balzac72_1055535580.jpg[/img]

My fam has owned both a Bemer and a Lex, and I can tell you that the BMW whoops the Lexus in every category....I've never driven a Benz, but regardless of the model, I imagine that it's the sweetest of them all.

I think 6.4 is one of the slower times I've seen for the 330Ci.

Remember that the WRX is only 227hp and 217lb-ft TQ....5.1 best 5.9 worst 0-60....

I believe I said exactly what you said "around town or in normal driving".  I then went so far as to qualify over 100mph and auto-cross racing...the M is definitely worth it if you plan on pushing it, if you don't and are a point A - point B driver there is not the extra thousands of dollars of of value in the M. [red]IMHO[/red]

If he has the M3 in his stable, you think he randomly chooses to drive the E46 330Ci?  Slightly better gas mileage, similiar acceleration when not really pushing it....I think if he wanted to go fast he would just take the 911 Turbo and be done with it, hmm??

50lbs-ft of torque difference at the flywheel, 110hp difference at [red]redline[/red] for the M.  So if you are not revving it out to the 7900rpm redline then you see what difference, when?  Also, the gearboxes are geared differently with a lower bottom two gears on the 330Ci so the initial NON-RACING thrust will feel similar, again for around town etc....

I have seen at least one published sub-6 second 0-60 for the 330Ci.  Road & Track IIRC.

The only sub 6 second BMW 330 is the 330i Performance package, which is what I mentioned earlier.  It has an M tuned 235 HP engine, 6 speed tranny, 18" wheels and other PP goodies, but only a 5.9 second 0-60.  However, it starts at $44k, but that's loaded anyway.

The 330Ci is no comparison and I'd severely doubt it could do the sprint in under 6 secs.  I ran against one the other day and left him so far back that it reaffirmed my love affair with the G!  So far I've killed a TT, 330Ci,  Mustang, Accord V6 and Acura Cl type S.  (Along with boy racer cars like Celica and RSX.)

Can I sing the praises of the G enough?  Nope.  

the 340hp [b]Infiniti[/b] Q45 is nice

and the G35 coupe is CooL (LUX 2+2 350Z)

I'm not gonna take the time to look it up, but doesn't your wrx weigh less than the Bimmer?

I'm not questioning your friend, I'm just wondering at the logic.  Regardless of what he owns/races/drives, he could still be nuts, haha.

Catera was on the RWD Opel Omega platform
used a 60degree DOHC V-6
evolved into the current CTS which will have
the 400hp LS6 in it for 2004 with a 6spd manual
(Vette hardware)

Malibu was a FWD econo sedan with a 90 degree pushrod v-6

NOT the same chassis

could you elaborate on this ??

Volvo was acquired by Ford in 1999 & has no affiliation with Mitsubishi that I'm aware of??
 What's the common platform ?

Mitsubishi has had development relationships with Chrysler for 20yrs & worked with Mercedes on a few things & licensed their balance shaft technology to Porsche in the 1980's for the 944/968 series 4 bangers

300lbs lighter....yes he is nuts.  Not really a friend per se, he owns a speed shop local to me.

FWIW, he drove the 330Ci 1 second faster per lap, at Summit Point, than my former boss drove in his M3.  Kind of like shooting I suppose, sometimes it is more about the idiot behind the trigger {wheel}.

[:D]

I guess I have to hunt now, but I could have sworn I saw the 330Ci published at 5.8...still no M3, but then again not everyone can make an M3 do a 4.7 either.....

Gets even more complicated:
As far as I know, DaimlerChrysler AG owns 37.3% of Mitsubishi Motors Corporation (DCAG bought the 3.3% MMC shares owned by Volvo).

Volvo Cars also works with Mitsubishi in a company called Nedcar in the Netherlands which produces a common chassis for the Volvo S40 and V40 models, now owned by Ford, and for the Carisma made by Mitsubishi.

ahhh.....I forgot about those little sedans.
learn something new everyday!

all have the potential to be great cars, which models are you considering ??

GS430, 330i/330ci, 530i & any AMG Mercedes would be great
 the AMG C32 would be a nice sleeper hot-rod sedan or of course any of the AMG 55-kompressor models are incredible,
hard to argue with [red]over 450hp & over 500lb-ft of torque![/red]

Yo Shawn,

Lotsa opinions here.  OK,  here's another.  If all you want is a reliable family car you already have one of the best in the Honda Accord.

I assume you are in a  higher tax bracket now and part of that lifestyle is a heavier, safer, zoomier car.  OK, I can dig it.  And you are on the right track.   Not withstanding the "ultracool" cars some guys are talking about, you really come down to the BMW 5 series, the Benx E series or the Lexus LS or GS series.

My wife currently owns a E320.  I have a LS400.  Our experience has been excellent for  both cars, though I've only had the LS for a short time (bought used).  In over 30K miles the Benz has had one failure - the battery.  It was replaced by MB roadside service.  

If you do the homework you will find that both the Benz and Lexus surpass the BMW in the reliability department.  This isn't opinion.  Look into Consumer Reports.  They do this for a living.  And, the Lexus brand name is the MOST reliable label in the automotive world - period. Those that say these cars aren't reliable are simply not paying attention to the data available.  All these cars will be far  more reliable than almost any 4WD or SUV (unless it is the  Lexus SUV - don't get the Benz one).

As to how they drive, well, unless you are looking at quarter mile times as being important they are all fast enough.  The wifes E320 is a 6 cylinder which I thought was good as it would be slow and keep her out of trouble.  BZZST.  Wrong.  If is plenty quick and will cruise up to 100 MPH without strain.  The Lexus LS400 is a rocket.  I know I will get  a ticker for having this car.  The BMWs do drive sportier and if this is important than accept the slightly higher break down rate and get one.  

In the end, all good cars.   Pick what you like and can afford and go for it.  

Too bad they never sent this baby over here.

[img]http://www.itbyn.net/~kfi/lotus/images/727.jpg[/img]

Where's the vid link of that thing dusting the police in Europe???

I wish I knew how, or where to upload MPEGs....

Not true.  The Passat is the sister car of the Audi A4.  The Toureg and Cayanne are similar, but the Porsche has quite a few "upgrades" and almost double the sticker price at ~$65-80K.



I have a '99 Accord EX.  Same thing - over 120K miles and NO problems with it.
If you want a more luxurious "Accord" go with the Acura TL, or the newly released TSX.  Both are VERY nice cars built on the Accord base.

Actually, Jaguars have been getting very high reliability ratings in the past few years.  I wouldn't worry about a brand new Jag. Although, I wouldn't buy one because they are ugly!

the site of which I spoke:

[ulr]http://www.autooninfo.net/ReliabilityPercentranks.htm[/url]

Two neighbors bought X-Types, both have had numerous electrical problems.  I'm encouraging one to return it under the lemon law, since its been in the dealership a lot.  Then there's the guy trading in his R Type for an M45 at the Infiniti dealership who told me he'd never buy a [s]Ford[/s] Jaguar again.  He had the same electrical problems.

Jaguars suck, I stand by my comment.

Not to hijack Shawn's thread, but does anyone have a link to the guy with the used BMW nightmare? The one that was a stolen car mixed with a totaled car? I believe it was an M3.
I wanted to see what happened with that situation.
thanks,
tony

Jaguar= Ford
VW= Audi, Bently, Bugatti, Porsche; The Toureg and the Cayanne are the same "platform", same for the VW Bug/Audi TT/Porsche Carrera(911)
Infinity G35= Nissan 350Z
GM "Cadillacs"= Cimmaron, Catera,& the Suburban stationwagon thing.

Personally, I hate BMW. But, if your going to get one, get the "M Sport" (formerly "Alpina"). Make sure you get a REAL M car, flared fenders and four exhuast tips!!! Not one of the lame "shocks and emblems" cars that they sell to the boy racer wannabe's.

[url]http://bimmer.roadfly.org/bmw/forums/e21/forum.php?postid=3378984&page=2 [/url]

Not quite...the Audi A6 is a C5 chassis while the Passat is a B5.  The B5 is the 96-2001 Audi A4 which is now a B6 designation.

Do not confuse chassis with name.  They might have been similar a decade ago but its totally different.  

The Porsche is slightly different too.  Different lines, different trim, different paint.  The drivetrains are similar but that's the end.

Back when I had my Audi , I had some idiot tell me it was an upscale Jetta.  No freaking way because the Jetta, while being an A4 chassis, was transverse engined while the Audi was longitudinal.

Do you have any idea what you're talking about?

No joke!  The TT is a 911? NOT FREAKING EVEN!!  FWD vs RWD?  Front engine vs rear engine?

And get it straight!  VW has not made a water cooled engine.  Ever.  They have all been Audi engines that were shared with VW.

I personally own a 330CI and love it.

BMW do sometimes break (so do all cars) and are costly to fix, i.e (read: Buy the extended warranty if you plan on keeping it for awhile)
My first BMW a 318is I had for 8 years and put close to $8000 bucks on that extended warranty.

However, as drivers they beat MB and Lexus hands down.

The only other car in BMW class performance and handling-wise is Audi.


Just my 2 cents.


James
Austin, Texas

yes, note the word "platform".

I got to see that!

That was pretty fcked up but when he saw the car in person he noticed the flawless car wasn't flawless.  That should've been his first clue the guy was a scumbag.

I've never seen a 15 degree VR6 in an Audi [?]

Water-cooled boxer anyone?



I'm almost sure that statement is a bit too broad, too.

In other words, "no, I have no fucking clue what I'm talking about".  Define platform for those of us that aren't as knowledgeable as you.

IM me an email account that will handle a 2.76MB file incoming....

I have it on the hard drive.  From 120km/h to 170km/h and the Omega is GONE!!!!

Friggin' incredible.....

Check your IM thanks!