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Posted: 6/2/2010 4:09:43 PM EDT
[#1]
Quoted:
Yeah and over a year ago people were saying it won't go over $1K an ounce. Right now its at $1,225 an ounce. People can only down play gold so much before everyone starts running towards it. Also please explain how wanting to end the Federal Reserve is socialist? So were the founding father socialist? They didn't want a central bank because they fought to end that bullshit...one of the things they fought for. Saul Alinsky technique of name calling your opposition. To a rabid, statist, fascist, not wanting a central bank is socialism. |
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Posted: 6/2/2010 4:11:32 PM EDT
[#2]
Dude, read up on Dave_A's economics posts, then take macro with a classical economist teaching the course.
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Posted: 6/2/2010 4:13:20 PM EDT
[#3]
Quoted: Yeah and over a year ago people were saying it won't go over $1K an ounce. Right now its at $1,225 an ounce. People can only down play gold so much before everyone starts running towards it. People 'run towards' gold every time there's a recession, because they buy into idiocy like what's behind the article the OP posted... As soon as the recession is over, they dump it, and the price comes back down... 1980, anyone? BTW, no one said gold wouldn't get over $1k - we all said (and still say) it is not an economically sustainable price... IAW, it's a BUBBLE. Also please explain how wanting to end the Federal Reserve is socialist? Opposing banks and whining about greed is socialist. So is desiring the government to dictate prices - including desiring the government to set the price of gold by decree (which is what 'gold backed' currency is - it's government price-fixing). So were the founding father socialist? They didn't want a central bank because they fought to end that bullshit...one of the things they fought for. That's a very common myth. The Founding Fathers did NOT in any way fight to 'end' central banking. In fact, they immediately ESTABLISHED a Central Bank right after ratifying the Constitution... When that one expired, James Madison himself signed a SECOND Central Bank into law.... So much for that theory.... |
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Posted: 6/2/2010 4:14:15 PM EDT
[#4]
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By all means, do this... And when the gold bubble breaks, you will have 'Darwined' yourself out of relevance.... HA-HA, that 'Evil' free market wins again, crazy-foil-hat-gold-bugs get smushed... Life goes on... As for the OP's socialist class-warfare BULLSHIT... It got old a long time ago... Like the last time one of 'You people' won a Presidential election (Andrew 'Dumb Hick' Jackson) and DESTROYED the US Economy over his hatred of banks! Calling other members names, is that a coc violation? Referencing an ideology as 'crazy', 'foil hat', or 'gold buggery' is not a CoC violation. The fact that the OP subscribes to said ideology does not make it a personal attack on him. Neither is calling someone's ideology socialist... And I am not aware that Andrew Jackson is a member here... Since he's long dead... But nice try... You should really give up the  , as I'm not going to violate the CoC...
LOL. I wouldn't call you an idiot, but your absolutist statements from someone who has very little life experience are absolutely retarded! I call BS on your BS because, although I would never call you a retarded Spec-4 OCS failure, Charles, your ideas certainly fit the mold. So what exactly is an O-4 Medical Officer doing running around on an internet forum, stalking an E-4 and heckling him from the sidelines? You don't actually join the discussion, you just sit there & chuck shit like that out.... Hoping to get a rise out of me (or whatever)... For all the 'life experience' you have, you don't seem to have the ability to actually JOIN these monetary policy discussions (or maybe you have the ability, but 'feel better' chucking shit into the ring from the peanut gallery), so it would be much better for all involved if you kept the personal crap to yourself... Contribute to the discussion... Or go shit in some other thread.... LOL, OOOOOHHHH, Charlie, sorry to touch a nerve, just standing up for other members. It amuses me, 'nuf said. I didn't call you any names, just that the ideology was one of a pathetic, no life experience control freak who liked to dance about the COC and make fun of other members with various labels"gold bug, tin foil hat, etc." I gladly enter discussions about monetary policy with individuals who actually want to have a reasonable discusion without name calling, rolling animations, or other smarmy comments. Just playing it how you play it. |
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Posted: 6/2/2010 4:14:33 PM EDT
[#5]
Quoted: Quoted: Yeah and over a year ago people were saying it won't go over $1K an ounce. Right now its at $1,225 an ounce. People can only down play gold so much before everyone starts running towards it. Also please explain how wanting to end the Federal Reserve is socialist? So were the founding father socialist? They didn't want a central bank because they fought to end that bullshit...one of the things they fought for. Saul Alinsky technique of name calling your opposition. To a rabid, statist, fascist, not wanting a central bank is socialism. Given your last post, you have no room to talk about name calling... Nor have you shown any ability to actually debate the economics... Central Banking is not about 'statisim'... The gold standard is the ultimate in 'statisim'.... |
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Posted: 6/2/2010 4:15:23 PM EDT
[#6]
Dave_A -
I fail to see how advocating gold as an investment strategy to secure wealth is a socialist viewpoint? Please educate me. |
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Posted: 6/2/2010 4:16:18 PM EDT
[#7]
Quoted:
I have 1/8 of an ounce so far from my one prospecting trip. I hope to clear a few ounces this summer. I immediately thought of this 
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Posted: 6/2/2010 4:16:43 PM EDT
[#8]
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Yeah and over a year ago people were saying it won't go over $1K an ounce. Right now its at $1,225 an ounce. People can only down play gold so much before everyone starts running towards it. Also please explain how wanting to end the Federal Reserve is socialist? So were the founding father socialist? They didn't want a central bank because they fought to end that bullshit...one of the things they fought for. Saul Alinsky technique of name calling your opposition. To a rabid, statist, fascist, not wanting a central bank is socialism. Given your last post, you have no room to talk about name calling... Nor have you shown any ability to actually debate the economics... Central Banking is not about 'statisim'... The gold standard is the ultimate in 'statisim'.... Dude, who me? I was talking about the idealogy. So the epithet "socialist" applies to those who want the gold standard? How so? How does a "socialist" not want central banking? When did Madison use the term "gold bug?" |
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Posted: 6/2/2010 4:17:44 PM EDT
[#9]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: By all means, do this... And when the gold bubble breaks, you will have 'Darwined' yourself out of relevance.... HA-HA, that 'Evil' free market wins again, crazy-foil-hat-gold-bugs get smushed... Life goes on... As for the OP's socialist class-warfare BULLSHIT... It got old a long time ago... Like the last time one of 'You people' won a Presidential election (Andrew 'Dumb Hick' Jackson) and DESTROYED the US Economy over his hatred of banks! Calling other members names, is that a coc violation? Referencing an ideology as 'crazy', 'foil hat', or 'gold buggery' is not a CoC violation. The fact that the OP subscribes to said ideology does not make it a personal attack on him. Neither is calling someone's ideology socialist... And I am not aware that Andrew Jackson is a member here... Since he's long dead... But nice try... You should really give up the , as I'm not going to violate the CoC...LOL. I wouldn't call you an idiot, but your absolutist statements from someone who has very little life experience are absolutely retarded! I call BS on your BS because, although I would never call you a retarded Spec-4 OCS failure, Charles, your ideas certainly fit the mold. So what exactly is an O-4 Medical Officer doing running around on an internet forum, stalking an E-4 and heckling him from the sidelines? You don't actually join the discussion, you just sit there & chuck shit like that out.... Hoping to get a rise out of me (or whatever)... For all the 'life experience' you have, you don't seem to have the ability to actually JOIN these monetary policy discussions (or maybe you have the ability, but 'feel better' chucking shit into the ring from the peanut gallery), so it would be much better for all involved if you kept the personal crap to yourself... Contribute to the discussion... Or go shit in some other thread.... LOL, OOOOOHHHH, Charlie, sorry to touch a nerve, just standing up for other members. It amuses me, 'nuf said. I didn't call you any names, just that the ideology was one of a pathetic, no life experience control freak who liked to dance about the COC and make fun of other members with various labels"gold bug, tin foil hat, etc." I gladly enter discussions about monetary policy with individuals who actually want to have a reasonable discusion without name calling, rolling animations, or other smarmy comments. Just playing it how you play it. Not even close... The ideological labels, animations, and such, are reserved for posters (like the OP) who routinely use the same... Folks who can't manage a reasonable discussion... There are plenty of folks (WiseJake, LouisanaCarry, et-al) who I do not use such things with... See the abortion thread for the 'difference' in MO between 'one of them', and someone like the OP.... I didn't use any of those tactics with HRhomberg.... As for you, you aren't 'sticking up' for anyone... You just have an issue with me, that you want to splatter all over the site... Most of it confined to veiled (just enough to be rules-compliant) personal attacks, and similar bullshit... |
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Posted: 6/2/2010 4:18:54 PM EDT
[#10]
Quoted: Dave_A - I fail to see how advocating gold as an investment strategy to secure wealth is a socialist viewpoint? Please educate me. Advocating a government-imposed gold standard, and opposing banking, complaining about greed, and such is a socialist (or at least, a totalitarian) viewpoint. Invest in whatever you like (but know that gold is presently in a bubble phase, and the price WILL fall as the economy recovers).... |
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Posted: 6/2/2010 4:19:52 PM EDT
[#11]
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By all means, do this... And when the gold bubble breaks, you will have 'Darwined' yourself out of relevance.... HA-HA, that 'Evil' free market wins again, crazy-foil-hat-gold-bugs get smushed... Life goes on... As for the OP's socialist class-warfare BULLSHIT... It got old a long time ago... Like the last time one of 'You people' won a Presidential election (Andrew 'Dumb Hick' Jackson) and DESTROYED the US Economy over his hatred of banks! Calling other members names, is that a coc violation? Referencing an ideology as 'crazy', 'foil hat', or 'gold buggery' is not a CoC violation. The fact that the OP subscribes to said ideology does not make it a personal attack on him. Neither is calling someone's ideology socialist... And I am not aware that Andrew Jackson is a member here... Since he's long dead... But nice try... You should really give up the , as I'm not going to violate the CoC...
LOL. I wouldn't call you an idiot, but your absolutist statements from someone who has very little life experience are absolutely retarded! I call BS on your BS because, although I would never call you a retarded Spec-4 OCS failure, Charles, your ideas certainly fit the mold. So what exactly is an O-4 Medical Officer doing running around on an internet forum, stalking an E-4 and heckling him from the sidelines? You don't actually join the discussion, you just sit there & chuck shit like that out.... Hoping to get a rise out of me (or whatever)... For all the 'life experience' you have, you don't seem to have the ability to actually JOIN these monetary policy discussions (or maybe you have the ability, but 'feel better' chucking shit into the ring from the peanut gallery), so it would be much better for all involved if you kept the personal crap to yourself... Contribute to the discussion... Or go shit in some other thread.... LOL, OOOOOHHHH, Charlie, sorry to touch a nerve, just standing up for other members. It amuses me, 'nuf said. I didn't call you any names, just that the ideology was one of a pathetic, no life experience control freak who liked to dance about the COC and make fun of other members with various labels"gold bug, tin foil hat, etc." I gladly enter discussions about monetary policy with individuals who actually want to have a reasonable discusion without name calling, rolling animations, or other smarmy comments. Just playing it how you play it. Not even close... The ideological labels, animations, and such, are reserved for posters (like the OP) who routinely use the same... Folks who can't manage a reasonable discussion... There are plenty of folks (WiseJake, LouisanaCarry, et-al) who I do not use such things with... See the abortion thread for the 'difference' in MO between 'one of them', and someone like the OP.... I didn't use any of those tactics with HRhomberg.... As for you, you aren't 'sticking up' for anyone... You just have an issue with me, that you want to splatter all over the site... Most of it confined to veiled (just enough to be rules-compliant) personal attacks, and similar bullshit... Actually, giving you a taste of how you talk in an vain attempt to teach you a valuable lesson about discourse. If I keep it juuuuuussst within the COC is it any less annoying? Is it any less disruptive? See what I am trying to point out to you, Charles? |
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Posted: 6/2/2010 4:21:00 PM EDT
[#12]
Quick.....somebody get some rice!!
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Posted: 6/2/2010 4:27:10 PM EDT
[#13]
Quoted:
I bought gold back before it was the 'in' thing to do. Now I have doubled my money. I guess my tin foil must be on too tight, right. Just wait, when gold hit $5k and ounce people are going to be kicking themselves. Oh yeah, I also own a 365 acre gold mine...how's that for planning a head. I'm just curious where you get this figure from, seeing as gold is now at an all-time high. |
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Posted: 6/2/2010 4:27:32 PM EDT
[#14]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Yeah and over a year ago people were saying it won't go over $1K an ounce. Right now its at $1,225 an ounce. People can only down play gold so much before everyone starts running towards it. Also please explain how wanting to end the Federal Reserve is socialist? So were the founding father socialist? They didn't want a central bank because they fought to end that bullshit...one of the things they fought for. Saul Alinsky technique of name calling your opposition. To a rabid, statist, fascist, not wanting a central bank is socialism. Given your last post, you have no room to talk about name calling... Nor have you shown any ability to actually debate the economics... Central Banking is not about 'statisim'... The gold standard is the ultimate in 'statisim'.... Dude, wSo the epithet "socialist" applies to those who want the gold standard? How so? It applies to those that want a government imposed gold standard, combined with a prohibition on banking (opposition to Fractional Reserve lending), and who cite 'banker greed' and supposedly 'unearned wealth' as a justification. Classic populist-socialist class-warfare tactics. Advocating for government to replace the free market in determining the value of money. How does a "socialist" not want central banking? Central banking as implemented in the US removes control of the value of money from the government, and places it in the hands of the open market - currency traders, investors, and similar... Under a gold standard, the government can just up and decide 'Well, 1oz of gold used to be worth $25, let's make it $35' - they pass a law doing this, and it's *done*... Nothing to do with how much the open market thinks that nation's currency should be worth... Government decrees it's worth 1/35th of an ounce of gold... And makes it so... That's hardly 'freedom'. Under a proper fractional-reserve based system (like ours), the final say is with the market - no one is forcing anyone to buy (or not buy) money (by borrowing)... Even at the 'zero boundary' (0% central bank interest rate), the actual growth or contraction of the money supply is still firmly in the hands of the market - as if people do not borrow money, even at that price, the supply will not expand. When did Madison use the term "gold bug?" I never said he did... What I did say, is that he established the 2nd Bank of the United States by his Presidential signature, clearly placing him in the pro-Central-Bank camp, vice the OP's bank-hate camp. The only President who truly identified with the OP, was Jackson - and in doing so he DESTROYED the US Economy within the span of his presidency. (See, not one insult, charicterization, or smilie) |
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Posted: 6/2/2010 4:28:00 PM EDT
[#15]
Quoted:
Wealth stored as physical gold cannot be accessed by bankers or by the evils and manipulation of the financial markets.
Sure they can. The evil bankers and markets just get gov't to outlaw the ownership of gold. It's been done before. Yep the stupid people will hand it right over when told to. It can also be devalued as well as THEY control the gold market. Just like diamonds gold is worth what it cost to mine it and bring it to its salable state and anything more is artificial. |
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Posted: 6/2/2010 4:29:08 PM EDT
[#16]
Quoted: Actually, giving you a taste of how you talk in an vain attempt to teach you a valuable lesson about discourse. If I keep it juuuuuussst within the COC is it any less annoying? Is it any less disruptive? See what I am trying to point out to you, Charles? Well, as you can see, I reserve *that* tone for those who use it on me... (Making an exception in your case here, to prove a point... And because I know that even if you lower yourself to that level, you really *are* capable of level-headed discussion) |
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Posted: 6/2/2010 4:29:31 PM EDT
[#17]
Dave, you say that gold being "set" for a price is anti free market right?
well that paper has a set price printed on it... and the Fed just prints as needed... where is sound, free market principles in that? where is the ebb and flow of supply economics? curious pacu44 |
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Posted: 6/2/2010 4:29:53 PM EDT
[#18]
 The Crash course is a long one, but really worth sitting through. |
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Posted: 6/2/2010 4:30:01 PM EDT
[#19]
Quoted: Quoted: Dave_A - I fail to see how advocating gold as an investment strategy to secure wealth is a socialist viewpoint? Please educate me. Advocating a government-imposed gold standard, and opposing banking, complaining about greed, and such is a socialist (or at least, a totalitarian) viewpoint. Invest in whatever you like (but know that gold is presently in a bubble phase, and the price WILL fall as the economy recovers).... Advocating a government-imposed gold standard is not socialist, it's just tying the value of the dollar to a real asset (much like banks tie the value of a loan to physical assets, for a mortgage, for instance). In my opinion, it just makes sense. But I'm not an economist, nor will I pretend to be one. I don't see anyone opposing banking per se, just railing against abuses in our current banking system. I don't like most banks either, but I have no problem with the concept of banking, I just think it's abused frequently by mega-banks and especially the fed. Complaining about greed - yeah, I'll agree with you there. That's the cry of the socialist. Greed is a base part of human nature, but capitalism works by acknowledging greed and using it to the advantage of society as a whole. Some guy wants to make a million so he can buy a mansion and a bunch of overly expensive cars and boats, in other words, he's greedy. That's great, though. He works his butt off, makes his million, then spends it on stuff that others get paid to provide him. They, in turn, use that money they've earned from the greedy millionaire to provide for their own families and better themselves. Win - Win. Capitalism almost makes greed a virtue. |
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Posted: 6/2/2010 4:31:09 PM EDT
[#20]
I don't see how wanting the paper money in my pocket to mean something is socialist. I don't like the idea of a central bank printing money like its going out of style. Also once the dust settled on the revolution there was also some founding fathers that wanted to setup the same system they just came from because they were to stupid to realize there was another choice in the matter. Just because one of the founding fathers wanted a central bank doesn't make it a good thing. Men much smarter have realized the problems with a central bank and now those problems are coming to a head. Again I would much rather have the paper money backed by something as it keeps things under control instead of swinging wildly.
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Posted: 6/2/2010 4:31:12 PM EDT
[#21]
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Wealth stored as physical gold cannot be accessed by bankers or by the evils and manipulation of the financial markets.
Sure they can. The evil bankers and markets just get gov't to outlaw the ownership of gold. It's been done before. Yep the stupid people will hand it right over when told to. It can also be devalued as well as THEY control the gold market. Just like diamonds gold is worth what it cost to mine it and bring it to its salable state and anything more is artificial. then what is this paper dollor, a tree cut and ink slapped on it... I can grow a tree in my backyard, fact, I gotto cut them down, they grow like weeds... Gold, eh, no dont think so... |
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Posted: 6/2/2010 4:33:12 PM EDT
[#22]
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Dave_A - I fail to see how advocating gold as an investment strategy to secure wealth is a socialist viewpoint? Please educate me. Advocating a government-imposed gold standard, and opposing banking, complaining about greed, and such is a socialist (or at least, a totalitarian) viewpoint. Invest in whatever you like (but know that gold is presently in a bubble phase, and the price WILL fall as the economy recovers).... Advocating a government-imposed gold standard is not socialist, IT IS THE LAW, which has never been legally changed... which amendment changed Article 1 section 8? t's just tying the value of the dollar to a real asset (much like banks tie the value of a loan to physical assets, for a mortgage, for instance). In my opinion, it just makes sense. But I'm not an economist, nor will I pretend to be one. I don't see anyone opposing banking per se, just railing against abuses in our current banking system. I don't like most banks either, but I have no problem with the concept of banking, I just think it's abused frequently by mega-banks and especially the fed. Complaining about greed - yeah, I'll agree with you there. That's the cry of the socialist. Greed is a base part of human nature, but capitalism works by acknowledging greed and using it to the advantage of society as a whole. Some guy wants to make a million so he can buy a mansion and a bunch of overly expensive cars and boats, in other words, he's greedy. That's great, though. He works his butt off, makes his million, then spends it on stuff that others get paid to provide him. They, in turn, use that money they've earned from the greedy millionaire to provide for their own families and better themselves. Win - Win. Capitalism almost makes greed a virtue. |
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Posted: 6/2/2010 4:34:04 PM EDT
[#23]
Quoted: Dave, you say that gold being "set" for a price is anti free market right? Correct, it is price fixing well that paper has a set price printed on it... and the Fed just prints as needed... where is sound, free market principles in that? where is the ebb and flow of supply economics? The 'number' printed on the paper, is the quantity, not the price. The price is determined on the open market, by supply and demand for said paper - resulting in inflation or deflation depending on supply/demand factors. Although equilibrium is theoretically possible, it is an 'elephant balancing on the head of a pin' sort of 'theoretical possibility - not something that can be maintained. |
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Posted: 6/2/2010 4:34:15 PM EDT
[#24]
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By all means, do this... And when the gold bubble breaks, you will have 'Darwined' yourself out of relevance.... HA-HA, that 'Evil' free market wins again, crazy-foil-hat-gold-bugs get smushed... Life goes on... As for the OP's socialist class-warfare BULLSHIT... It got old a long time ago... Like the last time one of 'You people' won a Presidential election (Andrew 'Dumb Hick' Jackson) and DESTROYED the US Economy over his hatred of banks! Calling other members names, is that a coc violation? Referencing an ideology as 'crazy', 'foil hat', or 'gold buggery' is not a CoC violation. The fact that the OP subscribes to said ideology does not make it a personal attack on him. Neither is calling someone's ideology socialist... And I am not aware that Andrew Jackson is a member here... Since he's long dead... But nice try... You should really give up the , as I'm not going to violate the CoC...
LOL. I wouldn't call you an idiot, but your absolutist statements from someone who has very little life experience are absolutely retarded! I call BS on your BS because, although I would never call you a retarded Spec-4 OCS failure, Charles, your ideas certainly fit the mold. So what exactly is an O-4 Medical Officer doing running around on an internet forum, stalking an E-4 and heckling him from the sidelines? You don't actually join the discussion, you just sit there & chuck shit like that out.... Hoping to get a rise out of me (or whatever)... For all the 'life experience' you have, you don't seem to have the ability to actually JOIN these monetary policy discussions (or maybe you have the ability, but 'feel better' chucking shit into the ring from the peanut gallery), so it would be much better for all involved if you kept the personal crap to yourself... Contribute to the discussion... Or go shit in some other thread.... LOL, OOOOOHHHH, Charlie, sorry to touch a nerve, just standing up for other members. It amuses me, 'nuf said. I didn't call you any names, just that the ideology was one of a pathetic, no life experience control freak who liked to dance about the COC and make fun of other members with various labels"gold bug, tin foil hat, etc." I gladly enter discussions about monetary policy with individuals who actually want to have a reasonable discusion without name calling, rolling animations, or other smarmy comments. Just playing it how you play it. Not even close... The ideological labels, animations, and such, are reserved for posters (like the OP) who routinely use the same... Folks who can't manage a reasonable discussion... There are plenty of folks (WiseJake, LouisanaCarry, et-al) who I do not use such things with... See the abortion thread for the 'difference' in MO between 'one of them', and someone like the OP.... I didn't use any of those tactics with HRhomberg.... As for you, you aren't 'sticking up' for anyone... You just have an issue with me, that you want to splatter all over the site... Most of it confined to veiled (just enough to be rules-compliant) personal attacks, and similar bullshit... Actually, giving you a taste of how you talk in an vain attempt to teach you a valuable lesson about discourse. If I keep it juuuuuussst within the COC is it any less annoying? Is it any less disruptive? See what I am trying to point out to you, Charles? Doc, you do realize that Axis II disorders aren't really responsive to therapy, right? I honestly, seriously have to ask you; why are you investing any time or energy in these exchanges? You're not going to change him, and it defeats the purpose of the 'ignore' feature for those of us who aren't willing to deal with cluster B drama here. With all due respect Sir, you're stooping. |
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Posted: 6/2/2010 4:35:21 PM EDT
[#25]
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Yeah and over a year ago people were saying it won't go over $1K an ounce. Right now its at $1,225 an ounce. People can only down play gold so much before everyone starts running towards it. Also please explain how wanting to end the Federal Reserve is socialist? So were the founding father socialist? They didn't want a central bank because they fought to end that bullshit...one of the things they fought for. Saul Alinsky technique of name calling your opposition. To a rabid, statist, fascist, not wanting a central bank is socialism. Given your last post, you have no room to talk about name calling... Nor have you shown any ability to actually debate the economics... Central Banking is not about 'statisim'... The gold standard is the ultimate in 'statisim'.... Dude, wSo the epithet "socialist" applies to those who want the gold standard? How so? It applies to those that want a government imposed gold standard, combined with a prohibition on banking (opposition to Fractional Reserve lending), and who cite 'banker greed' and supposedly 'unearned wealth' as a justification. Classic populist-socialist class-warfare tactics. Advocating for government to replace the free market in determining the value of money. How does a "socialist" not want central banking? Central banking as implemented in the US removes control of the value of money from the government, and places it in the hands of the open market - currency traders, investors, and similar... Under a gold standard, the government can just up and decide 'Well, 1oz of gold used to be worth $25, let's make it $35' - they pass a law doing this, and it's *done*... Nothing to do with how much the open market thinks that nation's currency should be worth... Government decrees it's worth 1/35th of an ounce of gold... And makes it so... That's hardly 'freedom'. Under a proper fractional-reserve based system (like ours), the final say is with the market - no one is forcing anyone to buy (or not buy) money (by borrowing)... Even at the 'zero boundary' (0% central bank interest rate), the actual growth or contraction of the money supply is still firmly in the hands of the market - as if people do not borrow money, even at that price, the supply will not expand. When did Madison use the term "gold bug?" I never said he did... What I did say, is that he established the 2nd Bank of the United States by his Presidential signature, clearly placing him in the pro-Central-Bank camp, vice the OP's bank-hate camp. The only President who truly identified with the OP, was Jackson - and in doing so he DESTROYED the US Economy within the span of his presidency. (See, not one insult, charicterization, or smilie) Cool thing, charles, you are holding it reasonably, don't fail me now...How is one socialist and one is not? Seems to me that either way is placing the monetary supply into the hands of the free market, as gold is a commodity, is it not? The best arguement for gold is that you cannot print more of it, thus keeping it slightly more stable than current currency, its weakness lies in the inability to expand as commerce expands. "Fiat" currency, or currency with an arbitrary value placed to it, is extremely succeptible to inflation, especially if the hands that run the press are lacking in self control and prudence, the advantage, of course it the ability to expand to support a rapidly expanding market. See, I was able to argue both sides without terms like "goldbug" or "socialist". See how easy that is? Amazing. |
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Posted: 6/2/2010 4:35:56 PM EDT
[#26]
Quoted: IT IS THE LAW, which has never been legally changed... which amendment changed Article 1 section 8? Find the words 'Gold' or 'Silver' in Article 1 Section 8. |
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Posted: 6/2/2010 4:38:20 PM EDT
[#27]
Quoted:
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Actually, giving you a taste of how you talk in an vain attempt to teach you a valuable lesson about discourse. If I keep it juuuuuussst within the COC is it any less annoying? Is it any less disruptive? See what I am trying to point out to you, Charles? Well, as you can see, I reserve *that* tone for those who use it on me... (Making an exception in your case here, to prove a point... And because I know that even if you lower yourself to that level, you really *are* capable of level-headed discussion) No, you jump off with that tone right off the bat on many an occasion, this thread included. Don't play that game, you and I both know that is not true. I tried years ago to explain this to you politely and you blew me off, now I'm being a bit brusque. Sometimes it takes having the same game played on you to realize just how you sound to other people. You may not realize it, but this is how you come off. |
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Posted: 6/2/2010 4:38:21 PM EDT
[#28]
Isn't gold at an all time high?
Wouldn't ammo or real estate be a better choice if you wanted to put your money into something durable. |
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Posted: 6/2/2010 4:38:36 PM EDT
[#29]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Wealth stored as physical gold cannot be accessed by bankers or by the evils and manipulation of the financial markets.
Sure they can. The evil bankers and markets just get gov't to outlaw the ownership of gold. It's been done before. Yep the stupid people will hand it right over when told to. It can also be devalued as well as THEY control the gold market. Just like diamonds gold is worth what it cost to mine it and bring it to its salable state and anything more is artificial. then what is this paper dollor, a tree cut and ink slapped on it... I can grow a tree in my backyard, fact, I gotto cut them down, they grow like weeds... Gold, eh, no dont think so... There's no wood pulp in currency paper. |
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Posted: 6/2/2010 4:39:13 PM EDT
[#30]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Dave, you say that gold being "set" for a price is anti free market right? Correct, it is price fixing well that paper has a set price printed on it... and the Fed just prints as needed... where is sound, free market principles in that? where is the ebb and flow of supply economics? The 'number' printed on the paper, is the quantity, not the price. The price is determined on the open market, by supply and demand for said paper - resulting in inflation or deflation depending on supply/demand factors. Although equilibrium is theoretically possible, it is an 'elephant balancing on the head of a pin' sort of 'theoretical possibility - not something that can be maintained. Whart is a dollar? the defination? paper money was originally a receipt for gold held at a bank... what is the dollar a receipt for? wait wait wait for it.......... a dollar... a paper receipt for more paper... classic shell game... oh yeah, that 1 dollar is worth 80 cents on the open market and can only buy 2 cents of the last dollar before the Federal Reserve started counterfieting... "Whenever talk turns to gold being a bubble, regard the syndicate message as one of desperation," writes Jim Willie, a Ph.D. statistician and editor of the Hat Trick Letter. "The true bubble is USTreasurys, if not all government debt including UKGilts, the PIGS national debt, and much more. ... The phenomenon most striking in the last two to three years has been the transfer of wrecked assets from private banker balance sheets to the government balance sheets, now wrecked also. The tragedy is that the private banks remain deeply mired in insolvency, while the debt ratios and extreme leverage of the sovereign debt is coming to light. Thus gold has begun to be openly recognized as a legitimate safe haven in full competition with the USTreasurys and the major currencies. from hit it |
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Posted: 6/2/2010 4:40:48 PM EDT
[#31]
Quoted:
Isn't gold at an all time high? Wouldn't ammo or real estate be a better choice if you wanted to put your money into something durable. inflation adjusted, now we are still 40% from the high... |
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Posted: 6/2/2010 4:42:00 PM EDT
[#32]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
By all means, do this... And when the gold bubble breaks, you will have 'Darwined' yourself out of relevance.... HA-HA, that 'Evil' free market wins again, crazy-foil-hat-gold-bugs get smushed... Life goes on... As for the OP's socialist class-warfare BULLSHIT... It got old a long time ago... Like the last time one of 'You people' won a Presidential election (Andrew 'Dumb Hick' Jackson) and DESTROYED the US Economy over his hatred of banks! Calling other members names, is that a coc violation? Referencing an ideology as 'crazy', 'foil hat', or 'gold buggery' is not a CoC violation. The fact that the OP subscribes to said ideology does not make it a personal attack on him. Neither is calling someone's ideology socialist... And I am not aware that Andrew Jackson is a member here... Since he's long dead... But nice try... You should really give up the , as I'm not going to violate the CoC...
LOL. I wouldn't call you an idiot, but your absolutist statements from someone who has very little life experience are absolutely retarded! I call BS on your BS because, although I would never call you a retarded Spec-4 OCS failure, Charles, your ideas certainly fit the mold. So what exactly is an O-4 Medical Officer doing running around on an internet forum, stalking an E-4 and heckling him from the sidelines? You don't actually join the discussion, you just sit there & chuck shit like that out.... Hoping to get a rise out of me (or whatever)... For all the 'life experience' you have, you don't seem to have the ability to actually JOIN these monetary policy discussions (or maybe you have the ability, but 'feel better' chucking shit into the ring from the peanut gallery), so it would be much better for all involved if you kept the personal crap to yourself... Contribute to the discussion... Or go shit in some other thread.... LOL, OOOOOHHHH, Charlie, sorry to touch a nerve, just standing up for other members. It amuses me, 'nuf said. I didn't call you any names, just that the ideology was one of a pathetic, no life experience control freak who liked to dance about the COC and make fun of other members with various labels"gold bug, tin foil hat, etc." I gladly enter discussions about monetary policy with individuals who actually want to have a reasonable discusion without name calling, rolling animations, or other smarmy comments. Just playing it how you play it. Not even close... The ideological labels, animations, and such, are reserved for posters (like the OP) who routinely use the same... Folks who can't manage a reasonable discussion... There are plenty of folks (WiseJake, LouisanaCarry, et-al) who I do not use such things with... See the abortion thread for the 'difference' in MO between 'one of them', and someone like the OP.... I didn't use any of those tactics with HRhomberg.... As for you, you aren't 'sticking up' for anyone... You just have an issue with me, that you want to splatter all over the site... Most of it confined to veiled (just enough to be rules-compliant) personal attacks, and similar bullshit... Actually, giving you a taste of how you talk in an vain attempt to teach you a valuable lesson about discourse. If I keep it juuuuuussst within the COC is it any less annoying? Is it any less disruptive? See what I am trying to point out to you, Charles? Doc, you do realize that Axis II disorders aren't really responsive to therapy, right? I honestly, seriously have to ask you; why are you investing any time or energy in these exchanges? You're not going to change him, and it defeats the purpose of the 'ignore' feature for those of us who aren't willing to deal with cluster B drama here. With all due respect Sir, you're stooping. Yeah, just like hitting a punching bag, you can hit it all you want, you won't change the punching bag's mind, but it does serve to get some agression out! Honestly. I was once a know it all, arguementative E-4, and it took some beatings up by a Marine Corps Captain to make me realize what an ass I was. He helped me get a comission. Perhaps its that. I tell you what, just for you, I shall ignore the (not COC compliant.) |
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Posted: 6/2/2010 4:42:44 PM EDT
[#33]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Yeah and over a year ago people were saying it won't go over $1K an ounce. Right now its at $1,225 an ounce. People can only down play gold so much before everyone starts running towards it. Also please explain how wanting to end the Federal Reserve is socialist? So were the founding father socialist? They didn't want a central bank because they fought to end that bullshit...one of the things they fought for. Saul Alinsky technique of name calling your opposition. To a rabid, statist, fascist, not wanting a central bank is socialism. Given your last post, you have no room to talk about name calling... Nor have you shown any ability to actually debate the economics... Central Banking is not about 'statisim'... The gold standard is the ultimate in 'statisim'.... Dude, wSo the epithet "socialist" applies to those who want the gold standard? How so? It applies to those that want a government imposed gold standard, combined with a prohibition on banking (opposition to Fractional Reserve lending), and who cite 'banker greed' and supposedly 'unearned wealth' as a justification. Classic populist-socialist class-warfare tactics. Advocating for government to replace the free market in determining the value of money. How does a "socialist" not want central banking? Central banking as implemented in the US removes control of the value of money from the government, and places it in the hands of the open market - currency traders, investors, and similar... Under a gold standard, the government can just up and decide 'Well, 1oz of gold used to be worth $25, let's make it $35' - they pass a law doing this, and it's *done*... Nothing to do with how much the open market thinks that nation's currency should be worth... Government decrees it's worth 1/35th of an ounce of gold... And makes it so... That's hardly 'freedom'. Under a proper fractional-reserve based system (like ours), the final say is with the market - no one is forcing anyone to buy (or not buy) money (by borrowing)... Even at the 'zero boundary' (0% central bank interest rate), the actual growth or contraction of the money supply is still firmly in the hands of the market - as if people do not borrow money, even at that price, the supply will not expand. When did Madison use the term "gold bug?" I never said he did... What I did say, is that he established the 2nd Bank of the United States by his Presidential signature, clearly placing him in the pro-Central-Bank camp, vice the OP's bank-hate camp. The only President who truly identified with the OP, was Jackson - and in doing so he DESTROYED the US Economy within the span of his presidency. (See, not one insult, charicterization, or smilie) How is one socialist and one is not? Seems to me that either way is placing the monetary supply into the hands of the free market, as gold is a commodity, is it not? Because we are not talking about people walking around handing out 'Xoz' of gold to each other to buy and sell things... We are talking about an arbitrary government price-peg of 'Xoz gold:Y Dollars'. And price fixing is a socialist concept, weather you are price-fixing gasoline, gold, or dollars... The best arguement for gold is that you cannot print more of it, thus keeping it slightly more stable than current currency, its weakness lies in the inability to expand as commerce expands. The weakness you recognize, is a fatal flaw. The end state of all gold-standard currencies is an economically isolated nation and a deflationary currency collapse. While this can be put off by imperialism (going out and conquering more places, to take their gold), it cannot actually be stopped. Hence, once the nations of the world lost their appetite for imperial conquest & colonialism, they abandoned the gold standard - there was no alternative, other than monetary suicide by deflation. "Fiat" currency, or currency with an arbitrary value placed to it, is extremely succeptible to inflation, especially if the hands that run the press are lacking in self control and prudence, the advantage, of course it the ability to expand to support a rapidly expanding market. Gold-standard currency is also seceptable to inflation, but eventually 'hits a wall', hence the deflationary collapse... In fact, the express reasoning for the establishment of the 2nd Bank of the United States reaching Madison's desk (after a temporary lapse, when Congress failed to present him with a renewal bill for the 1st Bank), was uncontrolled inflation following the War of 1812... Under the gold standard, no less. And with no government-produced paper money. |
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Posted: 6/2/2010 4:45:15 PM EDT
[#34]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Wealth stored as physical gold cannot be accessed by bankers or by the evils and manipulation of the financial markets. Sure they can. The evil bankers and markets just get gov't to outlaw the ownership of gold. It's been done before. Yep the stupid people will hand it right over when told to. It can also be devalued as well as THEY control the gold market. Just like diamonds gold is worth what it cost to mine it and bring it to its salable state and anything more is artificial. then what is this paper dollor, a tree cut and ink slapped on it... I can grow a tree in my backyard, fact, I gotto cut them down, they grow like weeds... Gold, eh, no dont think so... Good luck getting anyone to give you the same 'stuff' for your paper, that they give folks for Dollars (which are actually linen based, IIRC)... It's not about what the money is made of (or if it's physically made of anything at all - we only have $800bn physically printed dollars in circulation, out of a $13TN money supply).... All that matters is that people want it, and will give you labor and/or goods to obtain it... All value is relative. |
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Posted: 6/2/2010 4:45:35 PM EDT
[#35]
Much better, without Charle's rambling.
OK. So if gold is a viable method of backing currency, who can explain what advantages it has over our current system and what disadvantages it would hold in our technological society? I can see both in my own mind, but let's hear some coherent, objective thoughts on the matter. |
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Posted: 6/2/2010 4:48:07 PM EDT
[#36]
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Posted: 6/2/2010 4:50:22 PM EDT
[#37]
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Posted: 6/2/2010 4:50:40 PM EDT
[#39]
Quoted:
http://www.marketskeptics.com/2010/04/gold-manipulation-officially-confirmed.html  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jok3XLBz_SI&feature=player_embedded Gold is exchanged on the world market, so connecting the dollar to the price of gold is not price fixing any more that giving a paper dollar the value of a dollar. Both are traded on the market and both do fluctuate. |
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Posted: 6/2/2010 4:52:32 PM EDT
[#40]
Debt has value - someone owes you something in the future, for something they were given in the past... It's a logical way to run an economy without resorting to price pegs. |
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Posted: 6/2/2010 4:53:57 PM EDT
[#41]
Quoted: Quoted: http://www.marketskeptics.com/2010/04/gold-manipulation-officially-confirmed.html http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jok3XLBz_SI&feature=player_embedded Gold is exchanged on the world market, so connecting the dollar to the price of gold is not price fixing any more that giving a paper dollar the value of a dollar. Both are traded on the market and both do fluctuate. When the government ties the value of money to a commodity, at an arbitrary number, it is indeed price-fixing of the dollar. As evidenced by the government's ability to change that price-fix (devalue the currency) by legislative fiat. |
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Posted: 6/2/2010 4:54:04 PM EDT
[#42]
Dave, admit that the system is broken due to corrupt manipulation. Will you do that?
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Posted: 6/2/2010 4:55:45 PM EDT
[#44]
Quoted:
Dave, admit that the system is broken due to corrupt manipulation. Will you do that? Pacu, some people think that corrupt manipulation does not exist as long as it is done by an all knowing state. What do you propose as a good alternative? |
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Posted: 6/2/2010 4:55:54 PM EDT
[#45]
Quoted:
Debt has value - someone owes you something in the future, for something they were given in the past... It's a logical way to run an economy without resorting to price pegs. ok, fine. no debate... why do private bankers create money out of nothing and charge us interest? when we could do it interest free... |
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Posted: 6/2/2010 4:57:02 PM EDT
[#46]
I agree. I think the best way to get a "gold standard" is as follows: http://www.gopcoup.com/fmttogold.php
I use http://goldmoney.com/index.html for now. Quoted: Quoted: http://www.marketskeptics.com/2010/04/gold-manipulation-officially-confirmed.html http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jok3XLBz_SI&feature=player_embedded Gold is exchanged on the world market, so connecting the dollar to the price of gold is not price fixing any more that giving a paper dollar the value of a dollar. Both are traded on the market and both do fluctuate. |
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Posted: 6/2/2010 4:57:22 PM EDT
[#47]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Dave, admit that the system is broken due to corrupt manipulation. Will you do that? Pacu, some people think that corrupt manipulation does not exist as long as it is done by an all knowing state. What do you propose as a good alternative? get the creation of money out of the hands of a private banking cartel... the charter is clearly written in article 1 section 8.. gold or no gold, clearly spelled out and never legally amended... |
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Posted: 6/2/2010 4:57:28 PM EDT
[#48]
Quoted:
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Yeah and over a year ago people were saying it won't go over $1K an ounce. Right now its at $1,225 an ounce. People can only down play gold so much before everyone starts running towards it. Also please explain how wanting to end the Federal Reserve is socialist? So were the founding father socialist? They didn't want a central bank because they fought to end that bullshit...one of the things they fought for. Saul Alinsky technique of name calling your opposition. To a rabid, statist, fascist, not wanting a central bank is socialism. Given your last post, you have no room to talk about name calling... Nor have you shown any ability to actually debate the economics... Central Banking is not about 'statisim'... The gold standard is the ultimate in 'statisim'.... Dude, wSo the epithet "socialist" applies to those who want the gold standard? How so? It applies to those that want a government imposed gold standard, combined with a prohibition on banking (opposition to Fractional Reserve lending), and who cite 'banker greed' and supposedly 'unearned wealth' as a justification. Classic populist-socialist class-warfare tactics. Advocating for government to replace the free market in determining the value of money. How does a "socialist" not want central banking? Central banking as implemented in the US removes control of the value of money from the government, and places it in the hands of the open market - currency traders, investors, and similar... Under a gold standard, the government can just up and decide 'Well, 1oz of gold used to be worth $25, let's make it $35' - they pass a law doing this, and it's *done*... Nothing to do with how much the open market thinks that nation's currency should be worth... Government decrees it's worth 1/35th of an ounce of gold... And makes it so... That's hardly 'freedom'. Under a proper fractional-reserve based system (like ours), the final say is with the market - no one is forcing anyone to buy (or not buy) money (by borrowing)... Even at the 'zero boundary' (0% central bank interest rate), the actual growth or contraction of the money supply is still firmly in the hands of the market - as if people do not borrow money, even at that price, the supply will not expand. When did Madison use the term "gold bug?" I never said he did... What I did say, is that he established the 2nd Bank of the United States by his Presidential signature, clearly placing him in the pro-Central-Bank camp, vice the OP's bank-hate camp. The only President who truly identified with the OP, was Jackson - and in doing so he DESTROYED the US Economy within the span of his presidency. (See, not one insult, charicterization, or smilie) The government does control the value of base money, i.e., the monetary base, via permanent open market operations. By increasing the quantity of reserves in the banking system via permanent open market operations, the Fed does, in fact, dilute the value of reserves (base money). By diluting the value of reserves, it dilutes the value of credit created via fractional reserve lending. Increases in credit created via fractional reserve lending when no excess reserves exist are, then, not backed by real savings but by "virtual" money printing, i.e., the addition of reserves created out of thin air by the central bank. The new credit gives the illusion of wealth and savings. The result is a bubble. This scenario can be understood from the standpoint of the required reserve ratio. When credit is maxed out, i.e., there are no more excess reserves available to loan, credit in the banking system equal reserves times the reciprocal of the reserve ratio. At this point, no additional credit can be created, i.e., no additional loans may be made by banks, because the reserve requirement would prohibit this. Additional credit can then only be created via the creation of new reserves out of thin air. This may only happen when the central bank creates reserves. Without it, the market could not create new credit (loans). True advocates of the gold standard merely want the legal tender laws abolished, the tax on gold eliminated, and gold clauses in contracts honored. The Fed. will still be able to create Federal Reserve Notes and banking reserves out of thin air. Its monopoly on money, however, will be eliminated. It will have to complete with the market which probably would treat gold as money in transactions. Finally, revaluing a gold certificate is theft. It's fraud by a private party doing such, and it's fraud when the government, as under FDR, does it. The 5th Amendment specifically prohibits it, and Article I, Section 8 does not grant power to Congress to reprice gold certificates. |
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Posted: 6/2/2010 5:00:22 PM EDT
[#49]
Quoted: Quoted: Debt has value - someone owes you something in the future, for something they were given in the past... It's a logical way to run an economy without resorting to price pegs. ok, fine. no debate... why do private bankers create money out of nothing and charge us interest? when we could do it interest free... You can't do it 'interest free', and it's not 'out of nothing'. The reason that said money has value, is because someone owes it to someone else. So it's not 'out of nothing'. It's created by debt (which is a 'thing). The Keynesian view of the government creating money by spending does not work, as there is nothing there to make the money 'worth something' if no one owes it to anyone else... That is a particularly socialist system (advocated by some anti-Fed folks, who do not want a gold standard), in that the governmeent is just 'creating' money by declaring that it exists and then demanding that people accept it. Such a system was tried by the Soviets for their internal economy (they had 'Soft' rubles and 'Hard' rubles - 'Soft' rubles were arbitrarily created by the Soviet government for their people, 'Hard' rubles were used in international trade).... It failed. You see, if money is 'debt free', then it is worthless - because no one owes it to anyone else... |
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Posted: 6/2/2010 5:00:23 PM EDT
[#50]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Yeah and over a year ago people were saying it won't go over $1K an ounce. Right now its at $1,225 an ounce. People can only down play gold so much before everyone starts running towards it. Also please explain how wanting to end the Federal Reserve is socialist? So were the founding father socialist? They didn't want a central bank because they fought to end that bullshit...one of the things they fought for. Saul Alinsky technique of name calling your opposition. To a rabid, statist, fascist, not wanting a central bank is socialism. Given your last post, you have no room to talk about name calling... Nor have you shown any ability to actually debate the economics... Central Banking is not about 'statisim'... The gold standard is the ultimate in 'statisim'.... Dude, wSo the epithet "socialist" applies to those who want the gold standard? How so? It applies to those that want a government imposed gold standard, combined with a prohibition on banking (opposition to Fractional Reserve lending), and who cite 'banker greed' and supposedly 'unearned wealth' as a justification. Classic populist-socialist class-warfare tactics. Advocating for government to replace the free market in determining the value of money. How does a "socialist" not want central banking? Central banking as implemented in the US removes control of the value of money from the government, and places it in the hands of the open market - currency traders, investors, and similar... Under a gold standard, the government can just up and decide 'Well, 1oz of gold used to be worth $25, let's make it $35' - they pass a law doing this, and it's *done*... Nothing to do with how much the open market thinks that nation's currency should be worth... Government decrees it's worth 1/35th of an ounce of gold... And makes it so... That's hardly 'freedom'. Under a proper fractional-reserve based system (like ours), the final say is with the market - no one is forcing anyone to buy (or not buy) money (by borrowing)... Even at the 'zero boundary' (0% central bank interest rate), the actual growth or contraction of the money supply is still firmly in the hands of the market - as if people do not borrow money, even at that price, the supply will not expand. When did Madison use the term "gold bug?" I never said he did... What I did say, is that he established the 2nd Bank of the United States by his Presidential signature, clearly placing him in the pro-Central-Bank camp, vice the OP's bank-hate camp. The only President who truly identified with the OP, was Jackson - and in doing so he DESTROYED the US Economy within the span of his presidency. (See, not one insult, charicterization, or smilie) The government does control the value of base money, i.e., the monetary base, via permanent open market operations. By increasing the quantity of reserves in the banking system via permanent open market operations, the Fed does, in fact, dilute the value of reserves (base money). By diluting the value of reserves, it dilutes the value of credit created via fractional reserve lending. Increases in credit created via fractional reserve lending when no excess reserves exist are, then, not backed by real savings but by "virtual" money printing, i.e., the addition of reserves created out of thin air by the central bank. The new credit gives the illusion of wealth and savings. The result is a bubble. This scenario can be understood from the standpoint of the required reserve ratio. When credit is maxed out, i.e., there are no more excess reserves available to loan, credit in the banking system equal reserves times the reciprocal of the reserve ratio. At this point, no additional credit can be created, i.e., no additional loans may be made by banks, because the reserve requirement would prohibit this. Additional credit can then only be created via the creation of new reserves out of thin air. This may only happen when the central bank creates reserves. Without it, the market could not create new credit (loans). True advocates of the gold standard merely want the legal tender laws abolished, the tax on gold eliminated, and gold clauses in contracts honored. The Fed. will still be able to create Federal Reserve Notes and banking reserves out of thin air. Its monopoly on money, however, will be eliminated. It will have to complete with the market which probably would treat gold as money in transactions. Finally, revaluing a gold certificate is theft. It's fraud by a private party doing such, and it's fraud when the government, as under FDR, does it. The 5th Amendment specifically prohibits it, and Article I, Section 8 does not grant power to Congress to reprice gold certificates. I am not as articulate 
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