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Posted: 6/3/2008 2:18:01 PM EDT
[#1]
I am no hunter, but I'll guess that any North American bear that is weaned from its mother's milk will not be killed quickly by buckshot. Bears are husky, muscular animals, with a reputation for being very, very unforgiving when they are injured. I agree with the selection by blackmagic94: the MINIMUM you want to shoot at a bear is 30-06, and even THAT is pretty mild. Here's something to keep us entertained: www.youtube.com/watch?v=PkjbMgNoV7g&feature=related |
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Posted: 6/3/2008 2:21:57 PM EDT
[#2]
If she has to carry a shotgun, sabot slugs...
Otherwise, 7.xxmm rifle of some sort... |
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Posted: 6/3/2008 2:30:25 PM EDT
[#3]
Every problem is an opportunity in disguise.
viper5243, if she HAS to stick with the 12ga, try THESE to break her in. I've used the stuff for beginners before - it really helps a lot! If you can't get the Aguila 1¾" slugs, you have the best excuse you'll ever find to start reloading.  |
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Posted: 6/3/2008 2:32:05 PM EDT
[#4]
Tell her to make sure she takes somone slower than she is.
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Posted: 6/3/2008 2:41:52 PM EDT
[#5]
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Posted: 6/3/2008 2:46:50 PM EDT
[#6]
She only needs to read the stories of bear attacks to summon the adrenaline needed to fire full power, hard, non-expanding slugs. Most slugs are made for deer hunting and expansion is touted/prefered/marketed. Nonesense, you want heavy, hard slugs that will penetrate bone.
This is where the .45-70 has the advantage. Or a .450 Marlin. |
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Posted: 6/3/2008 2:47:31 PM EDT
[#7]
This one is better! www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_VlVckrUgY "Look, an Eagle!" I agree though, slugs or bust. |
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Posted: 6/3/2008 2:48:17 PM EDT
[#8]
OH SHIT!!!  
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Posted: 6/3/2008 2:54:13 PM EDT
[#9]
I just got my Pope and Young Black bear delivered from the taxidermist today.
Buckshot SUCKS for killing animals at more than 10 yards or so. I have seen the poor results of this MANY times over the years. A 12ga. slug, any 12 ga. slug will give a bear a REALLY bad day. Use the slugs..... |
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Posted: 6/3/2008 5:15:09 PM EDT
[#10]
Dibs on your girlfriend's guns.
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Posted: 6/3/2008 5:22:29 PM EDT
[#11]
I have dragged out many a whitetail that were taken far beyond 10 yards with buckshot. The G/F has no guns. She loved my Beretta 92 though and wants a two tone one. But she said for the amount of times she would use it she would just rather use mine. |
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Posted: 6/3/2008 5:28:23 PM EDT
[#12]
Whatever she decides to choose for a long gun.......get a Limbsaver pad put on it.
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Posted: 6/3/2008 5:29:28 PM EDT
[#13]
  - Clint ETA: My bear gun of choice.... .375 RUM with 20" barrel and EO Tech, shooting 300 gr Barnes TSX's... yeah I've been charged a few times and I've killed a few bears. This gun weighs less than 7 lbs loaded... 
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Posted: 6/3/2008 5:32:58 PM EDT
[#14]
 When you are looking in that face you are going to want slugs. Lots of em. |
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Posted: 6/3/2008 5:40:34 PM EDT
[#15]
He's just upset because he has all them teeth and no toothbrush. |
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Posted: 6/3/2008 5:40:39 PM EDT
[#16]
But using the OP's logic, #9's would hit him with even MORE pellets than buckshot. 
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Posted: 6/3/2008 5:41:24 PM EDT
[#17]
My first thought after seeing that picture was "bang, bang, bang" I leave bears alone, and if they do not reciprocate, they die. |
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Posted: 6/3/2008 5:42:33 PM EDT
[#18]
I agree. Go talk to www.wildwestguns.com hes in AK. the naysayers on this site will hate on Jim, but he builds a MEAN and I MEAN WICKED MEAN lever gun, which is compact and whill handle all the bear stopping power needed, but be prepped to pay in both real dollars and recoil dollars. |
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Posted: 6/3/2008 5:50:17 PM EDT
[#19]
I have been in there many times. That is the one gun store store (well any store) that i refuse to go into. I have never heard anything good about that store. They are only interested in selling you a $25,000 Wild West special. Anything you have is shit unless it was made by them. i have been in there several times waiting 10-15 min for service and the guy is just bullshitting. Then some customer comes in asking about the run room in the back with the high priced guns and they escort him back there. I look young so they don't give a shit about me but in reality i could cut a check for any overpriced shit in that place. I would never buy a fucking thing from that shop. |
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Posted: 6/3/2008 6:00:34 PM EDT
[#20]
I hate going in Wild West Guns, Jim West & his employees have always gone out of their way to make me feel like a total dumbass... That's the last gunshop that I would ever spend ANY money in. I would rather give up shooting than have to shop there! You can quote me on that! - Clint |
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Posted: 6/3/2008 11:50:47 PM EDT
[#21]
Slugs, followed by two double-ought buck.
Slugs get the bear as they charge. The buck shot wipes their face off as a last-ditch effort. |
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Posted: 6/4/2008 1:27:58 AM EDT
[#22]
Alaskacajun, that gun is begging for a micro aimpoint.
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Posted: 6/4/2008 1:35:46 AM EDT
[#23]
Even normal lead slugs are too soft to penetrate reliably on bear. Buckshot is completely out of the question; that's basically 8 or 9 50-grain pistol caliber lead balls traveling at about 1000 fps from the muzzle. In this case, each pellet is about equivalent to a .32 or a .380...
You'd want something with serious penetration and rapid-fire capabilities. Think along the lines of some kind of semi-auto .30-'06 loaded with heavy bullets, at least 180 grain (preferably 200-220). Your girlfriend, unfortunately, might not be up to the job. 
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Posted: 6/4/2008 2:00:28 AM EDT
[#24]
I read in some book about bear attacks were this guy and his friends killed this attacking bear. His friend shot the bear in the side with buck shot at like 10 yards then the author shot him with a 375 and killed it. When they skinned it they said the buck shot hardly made it threw the skin. I would say anything is better then buck shot.
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Posted: 6/4/2008 2:10:31 AM EDT
[#25]
I recall reading a story (anecdotal) a couple of years back about a hunter in Alaska who managed to defend himself against a Grizzly with a .357 Mag. The hunter was using 180 gr. hard cast lead bullets and maximum powder charges. He shot the bear with a single shot to the skull, from the front. Classic between the eyes kind of shot. The bear was dead right there. The hunter admitted it probably had more to do with luck than anything else. |
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Posted: 6/4/2008 2:19:28 AM EDT
[#26]
Read it, learn it, live it:
 Buy the T Shirt |
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Posted: 6/4/2008 2:51:42 AM EDT
[#27]
dude that link is fucking hilarious
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Posted: 6/4/2008 2:58:15 AM EDT
[#28]
Because buckshot won't kill a bear. If you can't hit with a slug, you probably won't hit with buckshot. At least if you hit with a slug, the bear might die. |
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Posted: 6/4/2008 3:53:11 AM EDT
[#29]
You're all wrong... one powershot from squatdog and the bear is history.
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Posted: 6/4/2008 7:15:09 AM EDT
[#30]
Define these terms for me. Many? Far beyond? Sometimes people forget that they are talking to people who have seen a lot of animals killed. A lot of deer to me is several a day for months at a time. Back in the day when we could use dogs to run deer in Texas, a lot of the kids, [I was a kid back then too] would use buckshot. It sucked then and it sucks now. It doesn't kill deer or pigs worth a fuck. Nothing is going to change that. It will kill them, but it is not very reliable. PERIOD. I would estimate I have witnessed at least 20 buckshot hit deer that had to be finished off after the dogs had run them to the ground after an hour, or more, long chase. An AR in .223 is far more reliable and preferable. to buckshot or even a .44 mag pistol for bears, deer and pigs. |
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Posted: 6/4/2008 7:21:07 AM EDT
[#31]
You would definitely be wrong on brown bears. Buckshot just isn't going to reliably penetrate enough . |
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Posted: 6/4/2008 7:30:18 AM EDT
[#32]
Given her choices, slugs are better than buckshot.
But, if I were in her situation, I would much prefer a real rifle. As Capstick wisely pointed out, "A .375 H&H Magnum will make two holes in an elephant, one going in and one coming out." Penetration is the key to reaching vital organs and stopping the threat. |
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Posted: 6/4/2008 7:35:42 AM EDT
[#33]
Killing a bear can take time.
Stopping a bear means breaking one of it's shoulders and only a slug can do that. Get her some bear deterrent pepper spray and tell her to keep it handy. Chances are the shotgun will never be within arms reach. eta: Link to December Admiralty Island bear attack. |
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Posted: 6/4/2008 7:41:16 AM EDT
[#34]
Diversity means not having to be qualified. Isn't it great!?!? |
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Posted: 6/4/2008 9:28:38 AM EDT
[#35]
Look the bottom line is this .
In bear country you are not the top of the food chain . Luckily as a human you have the ability to think and to cheat . Stack the deck as far as you can in your favor . Sure buckshot can kill a bear . Maybe . Sure bear bells may make the bear leave you alone . Maybe . Sure pepper spray may work . Maybe . Sure a .44 may work . Maybe. If you have never been charged by a bear before you have no idea how utterly shit dropping scary it is . From everything I have been told it was a lean winter here this year . I spent it in California so I don't know for sure . What I do know is I didn't take a job that makes me go into bear country and I am going to avoid them as best I can . The facts are if you get charged you probably only have time to get off a round or two tops before you are dinner . Bears are something that you just don't fuck around with or you will end up dead . |
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Posted: 6/4/2008 9:33:12 AM EDT
[#36]
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Posted: 6/4/2008 9:35:41 AM EDT
[#37]
45-70 Lever gun
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Posted: 6/4/2008 10:17:18 AM EDT
[#38]
+1 on the Wild West review.
The only ones who treat you at any level above disdain are the woman and the older gentleman (not Ken and NOT Jim). The custom 1911s and lever guns keep him in face-to-face business. The exclusive Colt's distributorship for Alaska pays the big bills. Their treatment of customers puts them at the bottom of the heap whether in the storefront or in back with the custom work. Case in point: I purchased one of the P7s he had on sale before he jacked up the prices. I bought mine for cash, turned to walk out the door, and then swung back and asked if he would do a transfer for an AR lower. Mind you, I just gave him more than a couple $100 bills, and Ken said, "No, we don't do that here, we'll sell you one of our guns, but I won't do a transfer on a lower receiver." I wish I'd asked him before I purchased the pistol. What the heck, it was a gift. Another case: I brought in an AR10 upper to have them do some work on it. They wouldn't take it at first without the serial number for the lower. I argued for 30 minutes or so before they would take it. Later (months later) after checking repeated times on progress for a simple job, I had to come into the shop and get the upper back. I sent it to Noveske to get the work done. God knows how much longer I would have had to wait to get it from Wild West. Final case: my brother had them re-barrel his Ruger Number 1 more than 10 years ago. He spec'ed the barrel, length, profile, twist -- everything. When we came in to pick it up nearly a year later, the had put a completely different barrel than what he had specified. He gave them the WTF and they replied that they felt he had asked for the wrong barrel, so they put the 'better' barrel on. They would not re-do the work and he was forced to pay full price in order to get his rifle back. I'll go in to look at their toys, but they don't get a dime from me. Especially when they're charging $29.95 'sale' price on standard PMags.
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Posted: 6/4/2008 5:41:27 PM EDT
[#39]
I had a friend who worked for AK F&G back in the 1980s, and she was issued a .375 H&H.
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Posted: 6/4/2008 5:53:58 PM EDT
[#40]
Would, would'nt or use something else is all pointless.
back to the question. If you only two choices were slug or buckshot in 12 guage and your target is a bear then the answer is slug and no way around that. It may not kill it but it will do better against the threat than buck. Hopefully it will make it think twice about running away. You should sit down with your GF and teach her how to shoot slugs. Your not asking her to get in a running firefight with them just use all 5-10 of them that she has loaded. What hurts worse; getting mauled by a bear or dropping 8 quick high brass slugs? |
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Posted: 6/4/2008 6:19:22 PM EDT
[#41]
She has already flow out to 1 of the 2 islands that she will be on. There is no cell reception out there so i wont be able to talk to her for 2 months. She was able to call me from a land land line(im guessing somebody's office) and thats when she told me about the slugs.
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Posted: 6/5/2008 6:20:48 AM EDT
[#42]
Can she use any gun she wants or does she have to use the provided gun?
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Posted: 6/5/2008 6:22:02 PM EDT
[#43]
All things considered Grizzly Custom would be a better choice than Wild West.
Lever Gun Porn of the 1895G variety |
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Posted: 6/5/2008 7:35:07 PM EDT
[#44]
Buckshot isn't legal for BUCKS in some states because of its lack of penetration. If the Fish and Game folks don't think it'll do a clean kill on a Bambi, I sure don't want to carry it for a Bruin.
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Posted: 6/5/2008 7:36:48 PM EDT
[#45]
slug
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Posted: 6/5/2008 7:47:02 PM EDT
[#46]
Most certainly slugs. Shooting a big brown bear with buckshot isn't a real good idea.
Like previous posters have stated, a big bore lever gun in .45-70, .444, or .450 Marlin would be a better choice yet.
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Posted: 6/7/2008 12:56:15 PM EDT
[#47]
Eureka! Click me! --->
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