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Link Posted: 3/14/2011 10:31:49 AM EDT
[#1]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Don't forget, all you have to do is rack the slide and any bad guy will loose his bowels and run away crying!


Actually heard that one the weekend before the last, when I overheard three guys talking about guns.

The first was saying how he had an AK because "that .22 just gets their attention."

After gun expert #2 said all you needed was an empty 12ga, the third guy gave him a VERY dry look and said,"Why would it be empty?"

It went down hill from there.



lol....
Link Posted: 3/14/2011 10:33:21 AM EDT
[#2]
Quoted:
Quoted:
5.56 > 12ga

Lighter, faster follow-up shots, more capacity, more maneuverable even if not SBR'd, ability to mount a can.


Just sayin'....



"From a pure wound trauma standpoint on a shot against unarmored soft tissue, a close range hit from a 12 ga shotgun using buckshot will create more damage than any 5.56 mm projectile; it is for this reason that Dr. Fackler has expressed his preference for 12 ga buckshot over 5.56 mm for close range defensive use."

Just sayin'


I'll take my 12 ga over my rifle in a CQ situation any day of the week.

I have also heard through anecdote that 5.56 isn't a good round for HD as it could start a fire due to it's velocity, etc. Not sure if it's true, as it said it was anecdote, but still makes me weary.
Link Posted: 3/14/2011 10:38:17 AM EDT
[#3]





Quoted:



I think any serious buckshot would put the hurt on a BG.





I will offer that low-recoil buckshot should allow for faster follow ups. I guess there is some compromise on velocity and effective range, but if we're talking a home defense round, I'm alright with that.





If you run an auto, make sure whatever you use cycles well.





My saiga runs great with Win. Ranger Low Recoil 00 Buck.



This is what I use in my NEF Pardner. Decent patterning, cheap enough to shoot a lot of it, and the softest recoil of any 12ga load I've tried. Because anything worth shooting once is worth shooting two or more times...



I also have I think 2 boxes of Federal Flitecontrol 00 in a drawer somewhere, in the off chance I have to shoot a guy 50yds out...





 
Link Posted: 3/14/2011 10:41:41 AM EDT
[#4]
Quoted:
I think any serious buckshot would put the hurt on a BG.

I will offer that low-recoil buckshot should allow for faster follow ups. I guess there is some compromise on velocity and effective range, but if we're talking a home defense round, I'm alright with that.If you run an auto, make sure whatever you use cycles well.

My saiga runs great with Win. Ranger Low Recoil 00 Buck.


I like the low recoil stuff. It should increase effective range, it is usually plated and buffered, and therefor patterns better. For that matter, the velocity reduction probably also improves pattern. It is pattern, not velocity, that matters for buckshot effective range.
Link Posted: 3/14/2011 10:43:54 AM EDT
[#5]
Quoted:
So I was perusing shootingtimes.com, and came across this article: http://www.shootingtimes.com/ammunition/12_great_12-gauge_loads_for_defense_111810/index1.html

There is a wide variation of loads in this list, including a couple of "exotic" ones.  The thought that occurred to me was, does it matter?  Are there any 12 gauge buckshot loads that are unlikely to almost instantly incapacitate, in one shot to COM, any drug-crazed intruder who is hell-bent on hurting me?  Is there a compelling reason to not simply get whatever 00, 000 or even #1 load that is on sale at the local fun store?


I like low recoil and a good pattern. And pellots that penetrate well.

FWIW, some experts recomment #1 buck.
Link Posted: 3/14/2011 10:46:46 AM EDT
[#6]
I wouldn't go any smaller than 00 buck, but that's just me.

Link Posted: 3/14/2011 10:47:39 AM EDT
[#7]
Quoted:
5.56 > 12ga

Lighter, faster follow-up shots, more capacity, more maneuverable even if not SBR'd, ability to mount a can.


Just sayin'....




Well you can mount a can on a shotgun...  Just Google Red Jacket Firearms.

























Link Posted: 3/14/2011 10:55:49 AM EDT
[#8]
Another Flitecontrol believer here...

I recently played with Flite vs some decades old Remington 00 (may have had no cup, just a wad) out of a Saiga 12 and the difference is amazing.  Admittedly, this is a best case vs worst test.  I just paced it out, no official measurement,  but I was getting  all pellets in a paper plate at about 20 yards, whereas one or two would be in the plate with the old 00.  A great range extender!

Expense is the only drawback.
Link Posted: 3/15/2011 7:53:31 AM EDT
[#9]
Your thread got me curious - The following is from a thread on thefiringline.com.  Thread

Here's some info that might interest some.
From 18" cyl bore.

LE 127 RS Fed. Tac slug, low recoil
1236 fps

Win Ranger RA12RS15, low recoil
1193fps

Fed. Classic 1oz slug (def not low recoil)
1495 fps

Rottweil Brenneke 1oz
1372fps

Rottweil short mag 2 3/4" Brenneke, 1 1/8 oz
1343fps

Fed LE132-00 buck 9 pellet with FliteControl plated shot
1124 fps

Fed LE133-00 buck 8 pellet without FC (though I believe it has it now) plated shot
1159 fps

Note: I believe the 8 pellet loads were created because some LE agencies specify 8 pellet on the belief that they produce better patterns than the 9 pellet loads. I think the Remington load did produce better patterns, and MAYBE the others as well.

Win Ranger RA12005 00 buck lead shot
1107 fps
Mild shooting, pleasant load (not on Bubbas' end)

Hornady tap lead shot with FliteControl produces same tight patterns as Fed Tac w/FC. Not chrono'ds, but is almost as mild to shoot as Ranger–– though all low recoil (Tactical) loads are easy to shoot.

Didn't chrono full power Fed Classic buck, but it's noticeably harder on the shoulder than the Tactical stuff.  
   
Link Posted: 3/15/2011 9:07:35 AM EDT
[#10]
wunbadweel: The answer to that situation is to fire multiple 12 gauge rounds, that scum won't be standing long after that.  ;)  My H&K-Benellli would have  quickly had 3 rounds on target just for starters.  hehe  :)
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