I think what we are going to see is sweeping new restrictions on what cattle are and aren't slaughtered.  I don't think this is going to be swept under the rug (too much at steak...sorry couldn't help myself).

If someone is looking for sources for mad cow info PLEASE make sure that you read respected literature.  I would suggest Nature.  Its a scientific journal that most people can read and understand.  I'd also recommend NIH and CDC online sources.  Be wary of books and other non-reviewed sources.  People with an agenda WILL distort facts to advance an agenda...I'm anxious to see how much Opra toots her horn on this one...she's attaked the BEef industry for years on this subject.

I am beginning to think that this may very well be a VERY serious problem; both health wise and potentially economically as well.

How do we accurately assess the size of the outbreak on the farms?  Has it spread?

How DID it get here?  How long has it been here?

How do we contain it...if that is possible?

How do we assess the incidence of infection within the beef already processed and either on the market or on the way to market?

If the USDA does find out that the beef supply is tainted, then what?  This is not a flippant question.  We must contain it, we must protect our meat eating society (Damn...I LOVE a good steak!) but how far do we go?  The economic impact to our beef industry could be devastating.

Given what DRJarhead says, how badly affected will be the entire meat producing industry...swine, poultry, lamb, across the board?

Should we really stop eating meat...at least for a while?

Are we getting the full truth from our government now?  Did they BS us on the outbreak in Washington?  Have they known for some time and been keeping it under wraps to protect the beef industry?  Has it spread?

When will the Left blame George W. Bush for the Mad Cow outbreak?  What did he know...and when did he know it!!!

DrJarhead...you scare the crap out of me!  [:(]

Couldn't agree more. The available information is fairly limited at this point and as this is really cutting edge research we are no doubt in for a few surprises and any book on the subject is likely to be outdated.

Shoudl we stop eating beef?  NO.  Is DC hiding something...I don't think so.  I think that the USDA and beef industry understand the lessons learned in England.  You can't hide or sweep this under the rug.  If not properly addressed people can and will die.  Its a problem that if nipped in the bud can be dealt with, if not, it will destroy the whole industry.

As for the risk...goto the Nature article I linked ont he last page.  I'm going to include another one below.  They state that the transmitability between bovine and humans in inefficent.  Is it possible, yes.  But its not going to spread like wildfire.  Couple this wiht the fact that the prions are concentrated in neurological tissue, and you need to understand that the risk is very, very low.

Lets consider England.  Numbers vary but I'll go with 125-140 documented cases.  Consider that many, many more were exposed and failed to develop the vCJD.  

Although I have no hard scientific numbers to back this up, I personally would be more worried over a bad case of E. coli versus contracting vCJD.  I certainly think my risk of dying from that bacteria is far greateer than a prion related ailment.

[url]http://www.nature.com/cgi-taf/DynaPage.taf?file=/nature/journal/v378/n6559/full/378779a0.html&filetype=pdf[/url]

Also there have been methods discovered to "disinfect" processed meat.

[url]http://www.nih.gov/news/pr/may2003/ninds-05.htm[/url]

Pretty good review article, although a bit technical...

[url]http://www.nature.com/cgi-taf/DynaPage.taf?file=/nrm/journal/v2/n2/full/nrm0201_118a_fs.html[/url]

Please people, don't take my thoughs as gospel truth.  Read as much as you can from respected sources and make up your own mind.  Don't give into the chicken little mentality without understanding for yourself the risk.

No way to tell.
We haven't eaten sheep for years and I won't.
Poultry is [i]unlikely[/i]
swine-no known cases in pigs but given their eating habits I would not be shocked to hear of one. Bottmo line is that it probably depends on what they are fed. Unfortunately in this case, farmers buy and sell animals to one another and this makes spread of the disease more likely.

In the UK there were several zoo animals of different species(all mammals) that developed the disease. These were all linked to contaminated feed.




I'm not going to stop eating all red meat but we are making some changes for sure. That really is what my posts are all about.
There may be greater danger at some point in the future, of course.





Trying to somwhat but don't go overboard.

[homersimpson]"Mmmmmm....soylent green"[/homersimpson]

Quiche! [shock]

Question for drjarhead and sloth... As you two seem to be very well informed on the subject, not a cut just thanks for the info.

What producers will be affected. Are the feed lots the risk point, or will the small mother cow operations where all the feed is raised on the farm be severly impacted?

Just thinking that the small operations who control thier own feed and breeding stock may be clean.  But it looks like a disaster in the making for the large feedlots and packer operations.. fullclip

I wouldn't say I know a lot about the subject.  I don't claim to be an expert.  Unlike my counterpart, I'm NOT a doctor (I don't even play one on TV).  

I think its too early to predict the economic impact.  The export bans will hurt, btu if we get this niped in the bud, we can force doors open.

As for who will hurt the most, I think it will hit most of the industry.  The only exception may be very local growers that sell beef directly to others that have come to rely on that specific producer.  I suspect this will flursh as the consmres know EXACTLY where and how their cattle are raised.

Its not a really good situation shaping up.  The industry needs this to be the ONLY case.  If that happens, it can be written off as a lone incident and things will soon get back to normal.  If, however, other cases are discovered inother regions of the country; the results will be devestating to the beef industry.

I hate to say this, but I think with the microscope turned up now, we are going to find other cases.  

I'm not sure there really are any experts on TSE's and to be honest the medical community knows little about prions in general. When I started talking to the docs I work with about this they didn't take my concern very seriously. Now we have a case in the US.
My interest began shortly after they were first described in the early 80s as I was in the middle of obtaining my microbiology degree at the time and found the idea fascinating. I am unhappy to say that we know not a whole lot more than we did then.



Agreed. Expect beef prices to drop, at least short term. If there are more cases then you cna expect a pretty severe impact on the industry.




agreed as well. I have already begun to look into my local beef growers considering purchasing a large quantity of beef. That may become difficult to obtain before long. It may also give some a false sense of security.



Agreed again.
I really doubt that this will be the only case. Only 19,000 catle are examined for the diseaes yearly. This is a very small proportion and allows you to pick up on an outbreak fairly early on but not at the very beginning.  
FWIW, some improperly made feed was released a year or 2 ago(not going to check exact date). Supposedly, the feed mill bought all the cattle that ate the feed and destroyed them but....

I will say again, we really need to change the way we feed, raise and process animals for human consumption in this country. A decent outbreak of Avian flu would decimate the poultry industry in this country and place humans even at risk for a global flu pandemic. We cram our animals into crowded pens and cages, feed them dead animal products and then wonder why there is a problem. It is also inhumane. Antibiotics in animal feed are used almost universally now and probably contribute more to antibiotic resistance than overuse in humans. At least on a global scale. My rant for the day.

im thinkin

[img]http://i.imdb.com/Photos/Ss/0289043/02.jpg[/img]

[b]I just found this on the Seattle times web site. It says the cow was slaughter there on Dec. 9.

Vern meats is place in moses lake that butchers animals then sells the meat to anyone that wants to buy it they also do custom butchering people that raise their own meat.

The cow that they are talking is downed cow. It's common practise around here that cows that go down in a dairy or feedlot are sent to the butcher.[/b]

MABTON — Beef from a Moses Lake company is being recalled and a dairy farm near this south central Washington town is under quarantine because of preliminary test results indicating one animal had mad cow disease.
Vern's Moses Lake Meat Co. "is voluntarily recalling approximately 10,410 pounds of raw beef that may have been exposed to tissues containing the infectious agent that causes bovine spongiform encephalopathy," the U.S. Agriculture Department said in a statement issued early today from Washington, D.C.

The federal agency's Food Safety and Inspection Service said there was an "extremely low likelihood that the beef being recalled contains the infectious agent," according to the news release.

This morning, a person who answered the phone at Vern's Moses Lake Meat Co. said government people were present but she did not know their identities. She said a manager was not immediately available for comment.

The cow found to have the disease was slaughtered at Vern's on Dec. 9, after she became paralyzed, apparently as a result of calving. Federal officials said the cow joined a Washington state herd in October 2001. They were trying today to determine where the animal was born.

Because the brain-wasting disease is usually transmitted through contaminated feed and has an incubation period of four to five years, it is "important to focus on the feed where she was born" in 1999, USDA chief veterinarian Ron DeHaven said.

Even as the investigation continued, officials sought to reassure Americans about the safety of the nation's food supply. That didn't stop at least 11 nations from banning U.S. beef, including Japan, Taiwan and Mexico, the three largest importers.

Agriculture Department officials and cattle industry executives tried to allay fears that American beef supplies had become infected, saying the U.S. inspection system was working effectively. "The important point is that the high-risk materials — that is, the brain and spinal column that would cause infectivity in humans — were removed from this cow," Veneman said on ABC's "Good Morning America" this morning. The United States has had in effect, since August 1997, a ban on use of cow and sheep byproducts for animal feed, which cuts off a major mode of transmission of the disease. "We are in an abundance of caution," Veneman told NBC's "Today" show. Meanwhile, DeHaven said federal officials have identified two livestock markets in Washington state where the cow could have been purchased, but would not disclose where the markets were.

Dr. Scott Abbott, a Mabton veterinarian, said he received calls from dozens of dairy owners concerned about their stock and business prospects. Some wanted to know if their farm had been quarantined, he told The Associated Press on Tuesday.

Many residents of Mabton — population 2,045 — were protective of local dairy owners and unwilling to discuss the matter with reporters, who were turned away from businesses and farms.

U.S. Agriculture Secretary Ann Veneman announced Tuesday that a single Holstein from a farm near the town, about 40 miles southeast of Yakima, likely had mad cow disease. If confirmed, the case would be the first in U.S. history.

BSE, or mad cow disease, eats holes in the brains of cattle. Outbreaks decimated the European beef industry and killed more than 100 people in the 1980s.

"We are taking all necessary steps to assure the protection of the health and safety of our citizens and our state's livestock industry," Gov. Gary Locke said.

USDA officials said the affected cow was a "downer," meaning it couldn't walk. The slaughtered cow was screened earlier this month and any diseased parts were removed before they could enter the food supply and infect humans, they said.

Though Veneman did not provide the name or exact location of the farm — there are about eight dairy farms in Mabton, and dozens more in the surrounding area — she did say that after the cow was slaughtered, it was deboned at Midway Meats in Centralia, about 150 miles west of Mabton.

From there, the USDA said the meat — though no contaminated spinal or brain tissue — was sent to two other plants in the region, identified as Willamette and Interstate Meat.

On Tuesday, Midway Meats owner William Sexsmith told The Chronicle of Centralia, "I wish somebody had let me know about this." He did not return calls to The Associated Press. Messages left at Midway Meats also were not returned.

Jeff Kline, spokesman for Willamette Valley Meat in Portland, Ore., refused to comment when asked if the remains of the animal had been sent to that plant.

Quint Daggett, a spokesman for Interstate Meat Distributors Inc. in suburban Portland said today that the USDA had told the business to refer all calls to the agency.

Bruce Pokarney, Oregon Department of Agriculture spokesman, said the state is helping the USDA to track down the distribution of any meat or byproducts from the suspected sick cow.

Pokarney confirmed that meat cuts, probably hamburger, were sent to Interstate Meat Distributors, while bone and meat cuts that would not be used for hamburger was shipped to Willamette Valley Meat.

"At this point it doesn't appear that any of the animals came to Oregon, but we would have a record of it," Pokarney said.

Bill Brookreson, deputy director of the Washington State Department of Agriculture, said authorities believe tissue from the cow's central nervous system was discarded when the animal was slaughtered, but acknowledged that it's not known where the rest of the meat wound up.

"The likelihood of (contaminated meat) moving into the food chain is very, very, very small," Brookreson said at a news conference Tuesday.

Hours after the mad cow announcement, Locke said, "I intend to have prime rib on Christmas," but didn't answer a reporter who asked if he'd feed his kids hamburger.

BSE is caused by rogue proteins called prions that collect in the cow's brain, spinal cord and other nervous system tissue. Processors are supposed to remove the spinal cord to minimize health risks, although a 2002 report found that rule was not always followed. The Agriculture Department last spring began more careful testing to ensure compliance.

I'll still eat beef no matter what but not tonight. It's Christmas Eve and seafood, seafood and seafood is on the menu tonight.

Two thoughts for which I have little doubt.
I hope we are not to far behind the curve on this one.

I hope this little outbreak will help bring some reform into the cattle industry.  Downer animals should not be butchered.  Plain and simple.  Run it into the sick pen until they either die or get better.  The feeding of animal material is already prohibited, but putting teeth into that is the issue.

If you have a local source of beef and you can check out the operation, you can feel pretty safe in what you are getting.

It all boils down to economics.  We want safe food but we also want it cheap.  We use downer animals because not too will leave the farmer at a loss.  Margins are already slim.  Unless we are prepared to pay more for our food, we should not expect to see any serious reforms (that will be adopted by the beef insudtry in earnest).

Keep in mind with the number of producers out there, you can mandate this and that, but the real issue, again, becomes enforcement.  I truly believe that farmers want to do the right thing, but like any other buisness they have to make a profit to remain in buisness.

As for antibiotic in food animals...we'll reserve that discusion for another day.  Again, I have some differnt thoughts on that issue.  

damn man

i eat hamburger 4-5 nights a week