User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 12/17/2020 9:30:35 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Would appear that way. ATF is getting awfully aggressive all of the sudden. P80, Diversified, and the proposed rule making for braces hits the federal register tomorrow. Probably going to be going after people who built F1 cans with Diversified's parts too now like they're doing with P80. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: The game is no longer in the shadows. Would appear that way. ATF is getting awfully aggressive all of the sudden. P80, Diversified, and the proposed rule making for braces hits the federal register tomorrow. Probably going to be going after people who built F1 cans with Diversified's parts too now like they're doing with P80. |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/17/2020 9:30:48 PM EDT
[#2]
@goloud just in case you haven’t heard/can get info.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 12/17/2020 9:31:37 PM EDT
[#3]
Trumps ATF
|
|
|
|
Posted: 12/17/2020 9:31:47 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I think they are going after kits. They didn't like the P80 kits, don't like the form 1 kits... I think similar happened to quiet bore They ARE trying to kill small business, for like the last 12 mos. |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/17/2020 9:32:43 PM EDT
[#5]
They are wasting no time at all.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 12/17/2020 9:32:44 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: are these raids like swat team showing up guns drawn or just guys walking in flashing badges? (serious question, i know that it might seem dumb) I think I read the other day on here it was a single agent trying to get info from brownells or midway usa about p80 purchases. They save the welcome parties and tanks for special gatherings where the women and children will be in attendance. |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/17/2020 9:33:44 PM EDT
[#7]
The Sniffer hasn't even been installed into office yet, I wonder what happens when/if he actually does
|
|
|
|
Posted: 12/17/2020 9:33:46 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If you used the kit after getting an F1 approved, that is 100% legal. No gray area there. If you assembled your P80 BBS at home, that is 100% legal. No gray area there. See how quickly that changed? |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/17/2020 9:33:56 PM EDT
[#9]
AR pistols and braces, check
P80 and kits, check Now form 1 suppressor parts manufacture, check creepy joe not even in office and all ready calling for new gun laws, check Yup the left is moving ahead with their agenda, fuck feels like we are entering the dark ages for freedom and liberty.... |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/17/2020 9:34:30 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: At this point with overreach, I'm surprised someone hasn't done that. Then again, 'destroying evidence' charges can put you away for a long time anyhow. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. but but that wasn't the case for Hillery. It's all good if one of our ruling class does it. |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/17/2020 9:34:54 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Same (bad) logic as the P80 BBS kits. It's already a firearm, so it's supposed to have a 4473 or form 1 before taking possession of all of the components. They'll claim you illegally possessed a silencer between taking delivery and getting your approved Form 1 back. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Why would they go after people who lawfully built cans on an approved form 1? Same (bad) logic as the P80 BBS kits. It's already a firearm, so it's supposed to have a 4473 or form 1 before taking possession of all of the components. They'll claim you illegally possessed a silencer between taking delivery and getting your approved Form 1 back. Yeah. I guess I should not underestimate them. |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/17/2020 9:35:43 PM EDT
[#12]
It's easier to go after distributors than try to track down every credit card purchase all over the country. They don't have the manpower.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 12/17/2020 9:35:53 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: AR pistols and braces, check P80 and kits, check Now form 1 suppressor parts manufacture, check creepy joe not even in office and all ready calling for new gun laws, check Yup the left is moving ahead with their agenda, fuck feels like we are entering the dark ages for freedom and liberty.... We never left the dark ages. That light we thought was the end of the tunnel was just an oncoming train. 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 12/17/2020 9:37:29 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Just clean the server, like with a washcloth Then nothing happens to you 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 12/17/2020 9:38:17 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I have a question, what if I were a P80 kit owner/solvent trap owner and I ain't home because I work! I'm gone for months at a time and I live alone. Am I going to come home to my shit kicked in? And what if they JBTs don't find what they are looking for? Start calling every shitty hotel around refineries till they find me? Good question. I wonder what their S.O.P. is. |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/17/2020 9:38:48 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: FATF is doing everything they can to kick off the big igloo. One day soon, they will hit someone that has a barren field of fucks. Hopefully they have live streaming cameras. The show would be epic. |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/17/2020 9:40:52 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Jesus Jones, man; read the damn NFA, at least. You are either complying with the law, or you are breaking the law. It is binary. The notion of legal 'gray area' or 'loophole' is a construct by people trying to expand the reach of laws without going through the legislative process as required by law; nothing else. These guys were following the rules, they were obeying the law, they'd even asked permission & worked with the ATF previously to make sure they were in compliance...but gubmint didn't like that some scumbags (and also tons & tons of good people) took it upon themselves to buy these products, do the work completing them, to produce weapons we all know they have every right to possess anyway. This company is innocent, and the only reason --mark my words-- the only reason some judge will go along with it like they always do, is quite literally "because the ATF said so." That's all they have, the pure, lawless use of force to impose their will. Stop enabling tyrants; this is wrong, plain and simple. ATF gets a hard-on for specific companies from time to time (usually when a sting operation they themselves set up involves the products of that company), and sets out to destroy them. Before P80 it was EP Armory, now it's Diversified Machining. With each of these the companies have tried to work with the Bureau, accommodate its requests so they can keep selling products, and it always comes down to "you're done, we're putting you out of business, now give us your sales records so we can harass your customers en masse." Because that's the real goal.  |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/17/2020 9:41:17 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I have not read all the post as it made me sick to see several post saying in effect "they were asking for it". What the hell is wrong with you people? I guess that is what you will say when people are fired for not kneeling and chanting black lives matter or not using the proper pronouns for some mentality ill person. There is legal and illegal. I would also go as far as to remind everyone that only our elected representatives are able to make laws. We have failed to reign in these government agencies that can arbitrarily make rules that carry the force of law. I don't know the solution at this point, but to say that the business that are victimized by the Gestapo brought this infringement upon themselves makes me sad that you are here infecting my one great republic. Because Gun owners are some of the most fucked up people there are. The left can unite behind a cause while we fucking eat our own. You could fine the best gun owner that have everything in common, one guy says I will say a prayer before we eat, other guy "Oh I am an athiest". That will be the end of it. We will never be able to unite because we will be too busy eating our own. Its fucking sad and pathetic. Too much I dont like what you like so fuck you. I belive in freedom but you drive a KIA and suck dick, fuck you. Your bump stick is gay and your shit is all fucked up, fuck you. |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/17/2020 9:41:20 PM EDT
[#19]
Meh, I guess folks have to buy these off Wish now.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 12/17/2020 9:43:07 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It's easier to go after distributors than try to track down every credit card purchase all over the country. They don't have the manpower. They don't need the manpower, they can just ask big tech to do it for them. This is about scaring off potential suppliers, making examples of people who weren't breaking any laws, and - as a bonus, giving people an opportunity to create an incident that the feds would use as an excuse to clamp down harder. That last part is especially important now - they'd LOVE to try and seal the deal on Biden by being able to scream about eeeevil right wing terrorists. |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/17/2020 9:44:49 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They don't have the manpower. This can be a good thing no? |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/17/2020 9:45:29 PM EDT
[#22]
Curious how far back he maintains customer records.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 12/17/2020 9:45:47 PM EDT
[#23]
cease and desist... what, exactly?
Making and selling threaded pieces of pipe? |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/17/2020 9:47:18 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Amazing how Trump was cock blocked for his entire term. But Biden seems to be calling the shots before he is even President-Elect. Deep state is more like Dem-State. Trump is cuck |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/17/2020 9:48:17 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I have a question, what if I were a P80 kit owner/solvent trap owner and I ain't home because I work! I'm gone for months at a time and I live alone. Am I going to come home to my shit kicked in? And what if they JBTs don't find what they are looking for? Start calling every shitty hotel around refineries till they find me? I think you know the answer. |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/17/2020 9:49:04 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: cease and desist... what, exactly? Making and selling threaded pieces of pipe? We all know the FATF gets to put the goalpost wherever they want them to fit their feels of the day. |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/17/2020 9:50:27 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: We all know the FATF gets to put the goalpost wherever they want them to fit their feels of the day. Right, and I'm sure that's exactly what they're doing here. But what's the actual cease and desist letter say? |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/17/2020 9:53:24 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I am back, have been for about a year now. It's good to be back. 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 12/17/2020 9:53:41 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Right, and I'm sure that's exactly what they're doing here. But what's the actual cease and desist letter say? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: We all know the FATF gets to put the goalpost wherever they want them to fit their feels of the day. Right, and I'm sure that's exactly what they're doing here. But what's the actual cease and desist letter say? No doubt. That's a really good question. We need about a few hundred more Nolo's on our side. |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/17/2020 9:57:35 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:  since you saw this, I'll delete my post about it on your FB page. Wish I could offer more info though. |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/17/2020 9:59:50 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Trumps ATF Biden but thanks for outing yourself. |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/17/2020 10:02:01 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: AR pistols and braces, check P80 and kits, check Now form 1 suppressor parts manufacture, check creepy joe not even in office and all ready calling for new gun laws, check Yup the left is moving ahead with their agenda, fuck feels like we are entering the dark ages for freedom and liberty.... Almost like pulling the pin on a little bit of a festive dance and BBQ doesn't seem like the worst idea. |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/17/2020 10:05:18 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Biden but thanks for outing yourself. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Trumps ATF Biden but thanks for outing yourself. Is he wrong? DJT is POTUS until 1200 on 20JAN2021. Did Biden direct the relook of bumpstocks too? ETA "I'd like to think about it. I mean nobody's talking about silencers very much. I did talk about the bump stock and we had it banned and we're looking at that. I'm going to seriously look at it. I don't love the idea of it," the president told Piers Morgan on Good Morning Britain. https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trump-banning-gun-silencers/story?id=63502902 |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/17/2020 10:05:33 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I may or may not have placed an order with them recently. In. I’ve been seriously considering placing an order from them. |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/17/2020 10:05:49 PM EDT
[#35]
"You know you're over the target when the flak is the thickest."
Is this one of those occasions (the stolen election, if you're dense, or I suck at writing)? |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/17/2020 10:06:25 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: seems to be a trend. They're really ramping shit up... |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/17/2020 10:08:51 PM EDT
[#37]
This wasn't an election. It was phase 4 of a coup that began before Trump was even sworn in. I am sure BATFE has been planning these moves for years. With the way the bureaucracy works, it does not happen in weeks, or even months.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 12/17/2020 10:13:28 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They will get super fucking raped for obstruction of justice if they do , but it does look like fo time is a comin. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Mfg's need the same systems that our spy planes use to destroy the hard drives. Just make sure it's a raid before killing the drives. They will get super fucking raped for obstruction of justice if they do , but it does look like fo time is a comin. Learn to properly write in .gov “....no one was more surprised than I, when the power surge, caused by global warming, destroyed our servers...” |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/17/2020 10:14:31 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Why would they go after people who lawfully built cans on an approved form 1? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: The game is no longer in the shadows. Would appear that way. ATF is getting awfully aggressive all of the sudden. P80, Diversified, and the proposed rule making for braces hits the federal register tomorrow. Probably going to be going after people who built F1 cans with Diversified's parts too now like they're doing with P80. Why would they go after people who lawfully built cans on an approved form 1? The raid implies something they were selling the FATF is considering to be a suppressor or suppressor part. Ergo, anyone who bought said product would be in illegal possession of a suppressor in their eyes as you can't transfer on a F1. It's not very different than the bullshit with the P80, except the F1 cans are registered. The customer (excepting prohibited persons) would be legal to own the product but because it's transfer wasn't legal according to FATF they claim they have to confiscate it. It's a ridiculous argument, but it's the one they're making. |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/17/2020 10:16:29 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: FTFY |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/17/2020 10:16:39 PM EDT
[#41]
They're just getting us ready for the Hearing Protection Act to pass.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 12/17/2020 10:18:03 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They're really ramping shit up... they've been given the green light. |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/17/2020 10:19:56 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This wasn't an election. It was phase 4 of a coup that began before Trump was even sworn in. I am sure BATFE has been planning these moves for years. With the way the bureaucracy works, it does not happen in weeks, or even months. Why do you think the ATF is working against Trump? Remember that he wanted a director who was so anti-gun the Republican Senate wouldn't swing for it. |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/17/2020 10:20:03 PM EDT
[#44]
Obviously the AFT feels as though they have an incoming administration that will support whatever they want to do.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 12/17/2020 10:20:56 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If you used the kit after getting an F1 approved, that is 100% legal. No gray area there. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: The game is no longer in the shadows. Would appear that way. ATF is getting awfully aggressive all of the sudden. P80, Diversified, and the proposed rule making for braces hits the federal register tomorrow. Probably going to be going after people who built F1 cans with Diversified's parts too now like they're doing with P80. I don't think that's how they're going to play it. The raid suggests there's some product they consider to be NFA in and of itself, similar to how they were considering the P80 kits as firearms. F1 is for making, not transfer, so even though the tax is paid they're likely to claim it was an illegal transfer, giving them the authority to confiscate. Taking customer data (by taking computers) definitely makes me think they're thinking of going after the customers. |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/17/2020 10:24:47 PM EDT
[#46]
This makes me wonder if they are going to start trying to prosecute the old “constructive intent” crime we used to hear about all the time on this site years ago.
Purchase some suppressor parts but haven’t gotten around to filing your form 1, then in their eyes you have shown intent to make an illegal suppressor. Mind you, all of this BS is happening when the Orange messiah is still in office. So much for Trump being our second amendment savior. |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/17/2020 10:24:53 PM EDT
[#47]
BTW - those of you that say it doesn't matter who's in the White House .....
|
|
|
|
Posted: 12/17/2020 10:25:36 PM EDT
[#48]
Now yous cant leave.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 12/17/2020 10:26:10 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Trumps ATF Apparently not. |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/17/2020 10:28:42 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Obviously the AFT feels as though they have an incoming administration that will support whatever they want to do. Has the "outgoing" administration done anything to stop the ATF? All I've seen is encouragement at worse, indifference at best. Fucking rino's wouldn't even back DJTs ATF nomination he was so anti 2A. Trump withdraws ATF nominee amid Republican concerns |
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
