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Link Posted: 4/6/2017 2:43:16 PM EST
[#1]
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Quoted:
At least FN worked out the FDE color-matching issue with the SCAR...
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Yeah they really don't put much effort into color matching do they.

Not very good for the Instagram commando crowd at all.
Link Posted: 4/6/2017 2:44:47 PM EST
[#2]
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Quoted:
OP doesn't know how to read reports?

MRBF = Mean Rounds Between Failures. Higher numbers are better. The HK entrant (09D) got 2nd place in Class I and II and 3rd in class III and had the best barrel life.

Based on these results, the HK makes the most sense as you are more likely to change out a barrel then have a Class III failure. Plus with a relatively high class I and II failure over the colt options its clearly better for the guys in the field.

Altough I would have picked the FN. Not a single class III failure in all of testing? That's rather impressive. Still better barrel life than the colts and 5000 MRBF for class I and II, 4 times that of all the other entrants? Seems like a clear winner on this data.
View Quote
We don't know how they came to that est. Barrel life.

And MARSCORSYSCOM wouldn't tell me how either.

Fact is HK was slightly more reliable than the Colt 13 stoppages vs 20, however it broke way more often, 20k vs 60k.

Look, there is no way you can tell me with a straight face Colt barrels only last 1,600 rounds. You just can't.
Link Posted: 4/6/2017 2:44:55 PM EST
[#3]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
OP doesn't know how to read reports?

MRBF = Mean Rounds Between Failures. Higher numbers are better. The HK entrant (09D) got 2nd place in Class I and II and 3rd in class III and had the best barrel life.

Based on these results, the HK makes the most sense as you are more likely to change out a barrel then have a Class III failure. Plus with a relatively high class I and II failure over the colt options its clearly better for the guys in the field.

Altough I would have picked the FN. Not a single class III failure in all of testing? That's rather impressive. Still better barrel life than the colts and 5000 MRBF for class I and II, 4 times that of all the other entrants? Seems like a clear winner on this data.
View Quote
Is the FN not just a SCAR essentially? They have lots of problems besides reliability of the action itself.

The calculated barrel lives are preposterous, I simply can't see any way there's that much disparity.
Link Posted: 4/6/2017 2:46:12 PM EST
[#4]
A, B, C and D all passed the reliability tests, but FN scored above the rest
Link Posted: 4/6/2017 2:49:03 PM EST
[#5]
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Quoted:


Yes. The M27 was adopted in 2009.

These are the test results.

A further breakdown between Colt entrant A and HK entrant D.

Colt - 20 stoppages per 20,000 rounds.
H&K - 13 stoppages per 20,000 rounds.
View Quote
But look at the difference in estimated barrel life  between the two!  Holy cow!
Link Posted: 4/6/2017 2:53:37 PM EST
[#6]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


We don't know how they came to that est. Barrel life.

And MARSCORSYSCOM wouldn't tell me how either.

Fact is HK was slightly more reliable than the Colt 13 stoppages vs 20, however it broke way more often, 20k vs 60k.

Look, there is no way you can tell me with a straight face Colt barrels only last 1,600 rounds. You just can't.
View Quote
Only way I see the HK making 20K rounds while everything else is under 10K is if the HK was running M855 and everything else was running M855A1... And everyone was doing full-auto.
Link Posted: 4/6/2017 2:54:46 PM EST
[#7]
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Quoted:
But look at the difference in estimated barrel life  between the two!  Holy cow!
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Quoted:
Quoted:


Yes. The M27 was adopted in 2009.

These are the test results.

A further breakdown between Colt entrant A and HK entrant D.

Colt - 20 stoppages per 20,000 rounds.
H&K - 13 stoppages per 20,000 rounds.
But look at the difference in estimated barrel life  between the two!  Holy cow!
So they changed the barrels on the Colts over 10 times throughout the testing?

Were the barrels made out of copper? Colt M4 barrels last substantially longer than the estimates presented here.
Link Posted: 4/6/2017 2:55:18 PM EST
[#8]
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Quoted:


But look at the difference in estimated barrel life  between the two!  Holy cow!
View Quote
I would love to know how they go those.

According to the data they tested the barrels at 5,000 rounds.

So at that point they would either be good, or not.

If they don't test till 5,000 rounds how can they know the Colt barrels were gone at 1,800?

Although I'm sure MARSCORSYSCOM purposely chose estimated barrel life to release for a reason.

Probably because it's the only factor to truly favor the M27 selection according to these results.

Colt was 3x as durable, and only a fraction less reliable (13 vs 20 stoppages) while also running $1,600 less per rifle.

So they chose the H&K based off of estimated barrel life?

Seems fishy.

Edit: and you can't tell me FNH barrels only get 5,000 rounds....Especially a heavy barrel SCAR variant.
Link Posted: 4/6/2017 3:04:16 PM EST
[#9]
Lol piston AR's
Link Posted: 4/6/2017 3:07:14 PM EST
[#10]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Lol piston AR's
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09A was a DI rifle.
Link Posted: 4/6/2017 3:07:23 PM EST
[#11]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
At least FN worked out the FDE color-matching issue with the SCAR...
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You gotta focus on the big picture stuff first
Link Posted: 4/6/2017 3:29:29 PM EST
[#12]
The 10th IAR Bid Sample, Competitor I, was determined
unsafe for live fire due to a lack of proof marking. Live fire
testing was not conducted.
View Quote
Poor Robinson Arms, just can't catch a break.
Link Posted: 4/6/2017 3:39:27 PM EST
[#13]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

Is the FN not just a SCAR essentially? They have lots of problems besides reliability of the action itself.

The calculated barrel lives are preposterous, I simply can't see any way there's that much disparity.
View Quote
The HAMR is, essentially, the SCAR 16 with a few nominal changes. Heavy barrel and alternating closed/open bolt firing.

Basically, if you get it hot enough, it switches from closed bolt to firing from an open bolt. Makes it great for sustained fire, IE, the role of an automatic rifle.

I'm suspecting shenanigans if they claim HK has 20K barrel life but the Colt, with it's heat sink and heavy barrel made of the same material as standard M4 barrels, is getting under 2K. Not to mention FN's CHF barrels, the Scar is well-regarded in terms of barrel life. Having everyone but HK use M855A1 is the only way I can see them burning out barrels that quickly.

I want to see the standards for a barrel to have been considered "shot out."
Link Posted: 4/6/2017 3:40:54 PM EST
[#14]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
ITT: Beaking, Shocking, H&K IAR, & Joglee

NEVER would've seen this coming...
View Quote
this
Link Posted: 4/6/2017 3:48:25 PM EST
[#15]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
How many rounds does a regular big marine corp 0311 run through a carbine in a 3 year hump?

With qualification, a six month tour, etc
View Quote
Obama ended all the wars, so I have no idea what it is these days.

I am curious to know as well.
Link Posted: 4/6/2017 3:50:11 PM EST
[#16]
Watch, competitor F is an M4A1.

Minds will be blown.
Link Posted: 4/6/2017 3:51:25 PM EST
[#17]
Anybody can use an old A2 grip.  H&K has a different grip.  That's probably why they won.
Link Posted: 4/6/2017 4:06:02 PM EST
[#18]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Anybody can use an old A2 grip.  H&K has a different grip.  That's probably why they won.
View Quote
Not for CMP though.  You can have damn near anything you want, but it better be an A1 or A2 grip.
Link Posted: 4/6/2017 4:14:12 PM EST
[#19]
Who is competitor "F"?
Link Posted: 4/6/2017 4:16:42 PM EST
[#20]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Who is competitor "F"?
View Quote
Hipoint Firearms Carbine
Link Posted: 4/6/2017 5:05:30 PM EST
[#21]
If I remember correctly, LWRC submitted a rifle based on one of their piston setups. Closed bolt in semi, open bolt in full. Don't know what letter they were assigned though.
Link Posted: 4/6/2017 6:06:06 PM EST
[#22]
What makes the H&K barrel different in increased barrel life?
Link Posted: 4/6/2017 6:07:58 PM EST
[#23]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
What makes the H&K barrel different in increased barrel life?
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Teutonic incantations spoken during the rifling process.
Link Posted: 4/6/2017 6:11:54 PM EST
[#24]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Fancy metal, CHF, melonited, chrome lined, with a tapered bore.

Best military barrel on the market imo....Well not the civilian market.....
View Quote
How many machines exist that are capable of building a barrel like that?
Link Posted: 4/6/2017 6:18:35 PM EST
[#25]
Saw this image online.  
I wonder if the 6940H was the other Colt submission:
http://i50.tinypic.com/2ighgdg.jpg
Link Posted: 4/6/2017 6:19:37 PM EST
[#26]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
ITT we find out that H&K hates both civilians and the military.
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If someone hates you for no reason, give that motherfucker a reason.
Link Posted: 4/6/2017 6:22:08 PM EST
[#27]
The Colt barrels were CHF also if I remember correctly.
Link Posted: 4/6/2017 6:22:25 PM EST
[#28]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Saw this image online.  
I wonder if the 6940H was the other Colt submission:
http://i50.tinypic.com/2ighgdg.jpg
View Quote
Correct.
Link Posted: 4/6/2017 6:23:54 PM EST
[#29]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Only way I see the HK making 20K rounds while everything else is under 10K is if the HK was running M855 and everything else was running M855A1... And everyone was doing full-auto.
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:


We don't know how they came to that est. Barrel life.

And MARSCORSYSCOM wouldn't tell me how either.

Fact is HK was slightly more reliable than the Colt 13 stoppages vs 20, however it broke way more often, 20k vs 60k.

Look, there is no way you can tell me with a straight face Colt barrels only last 1,600 rounds. You just can't.
Only way I see the HK making 20K rounds while everything else is under 10K is if the HK was running M855 and everything else was running M855A1... And everyone was doing full-auto.
Back in the old days in some gun mag they shot a colt AR 10,000 times and had to replace the bbl after that. I think it was non chrome lined though. Hard to believe a chrome lined bbl only lasts as long as a regular barrel.
Link Posted: 4/6/2017 6:26:47 PM EST
[#30]
... regardless, at this point in my lifetime, I'm staying with Colt
Link Posted: 4/6/2017 6:35:37 PM EST
[#31]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
... regardless, at this point in my lifetime, I'm staying with Colt
View Quote
Ignoring the odd estimated barrel life, which is just strange for both Colt and FN.

The Colt IAR did well.

3 UUTs each firing 20,000 rounds.

61 stoppages out of a combined 60,000 rounds.
1 parts breaking out of a combined 60,000 rounds.

That's not insignificant.
Link Posted: 4/6/2017 6:41:23 PM EST
[#32]
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Quoted:
How many machines exist that are capable of building a barrel like that?
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:


Fancy metal, CHF, melonited, chrome lined, with a tapered bore.

Best military barrel on the market imo....Well not the civilian market.....
How many machines exist that are capable of building a barrel like that?
Only one such forge exists, but it's at the heart of Mt. Doom, deep within Mordor...
Link Posted: 4/6/2017 6:45:25 PM EST
[#33]
Barrel life of 1,400 rounds?  Is that a fucking joke??
Link Posted: 4/6/2017 7:17:26 PM EST
[#34]
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Quoted:
Barrel life of 1,400 rounds?  Is that a fucking joke??
View Quote
Even FN only had a 5,000 round barrel life.

Something is fishy about the barrel life data.
Link Posted: 4/6/2017 7:39:18 PM EST
[#35]
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Quoted:
Barrel life of 1,400 rounds?  Is that a fucking joke??
View Quote
Gotta be a zero missing in there.
Link Posted: 4/6/2017 8:53:34 PM EST
[#36]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Only one such forge exists, but it's at the heart of Mt. Doom, deep within Mordor...
View Quote
Soooo... Germany I suspect?
Link Posted: 4/6/2017 9:01:31 PM EST
[#37]
Link Posted: 4/6/2017 9:21:54 PM EST
[#38]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
This is from a test in 2008/2009?  Am I reading that right?
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What they knew this and still sent our Navy Seals in with them to kill Osama?
Link Posted: 4/6/2017 9:29:17 PM EST
[#39]
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Quoted:
Gotta be a zero missing in there.
View Quote
I mean I could see the Colt having 10,000 rounds life, but 1,400.

Hell no way is a FNH barrel only good for 5,000 rounds.

That means the M249 and M240 barrels are toast by that point to....

This honestly looks to me like a scam since the H&K didn't perform the best in Class I-III they had to justify it by pencil whipping barrel life.
Link Posted: 4/8/2017 5:28:00 AM EST
[#40]
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Quoted:


HK makes good military barrels. Fancy metals, melonited, then chrome lined, with a tapered bore.
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


HK makes good military barrels. Fancy metals, melonited, then chrome lined, with a tapered bore.
Quoted:


Fancy metal, CHF, melonited, chrome lined, with a tapered bore.

Best military barrel on the market imo....Well not the civilian market.....
@joglee

What alloy is the 416 barrel made of?

What alloy is the MR223/556 barrel made of? Does it have a tapered bore too?
Link Posted: 4/8/2017 5:28:14 AM EST
[#41]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Is the HK barrel CHF and SBN?
View Quote
SBN?
Link Posted: 4/8/2017 5:54:11 AM EST
[#42]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Obama ended all the wars, so I have no idea what it is these days.

I am curious to know as well.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
How many rounds does a regular big marine corp 0311 run through a carbine in a 3 year hump?

With qualification, a six month tour, etc
Obama ended all the wars, so I have no idea what it is these days.

I am curious to know as well.
An 0311 does not shoot too many rounds at all. Besides the basement dwellers here, most of you probably put more rounds down range in a year. I certainly did prior to my enlistment in 2008.

An 0311 should qual. once a year and will go through quite a few training evolutions. I would estimate between 1500 and 2500 depending on the unit and weather they were slated for a MEU or a tour in the Afghanistan.

Lots of training is done with cold weapons or blanks and BFAs (in which case the goal was not to pull the trigger)
Link Posted: 4/8/2017 6:19:01 AM EST
[#43]
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Quoted:


This were the civilian barrels. They are different.

The civilian barrel H&K makes for the USA sucks ass.
View Quote
Because they aren't CL or even melonited?
Link Posted: 4/8/2017 6:38:15 AM EST
[#44]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
How many machines exist that are capable of building a barrel like that?
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:


Fancy metal, CHF, melonited, chrome lined, with a tapered bore.

Best military barrel on the market imo....Well not the civilian market.....
How many machines exist that are capable of building a barrel like that?
GFM machines? According to a recent Weaponsman post, there are only about 20 hammer-forging machines making barrels in the US.

@joglee
Does H&K use GFM hammer-forging machines?
Link Posted: 4/8/2017 6:39:22 AM EST
[#45]
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Quoted:
The Colt barrels were CHF also if I remember correctly.
View Quote
Sourced from Colt Canada? Or does Colt Defense have its own CHF machines too?
Link Posted: 4/8/2017 6:39:37 AM EST
[#46]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


We don't know how they came to that est. Barrel life.

And MARSCORSYSCOM wouldn't tell me how either.

Fact is HK was slightly more reliable than the Colt 13 stoppages vs 20, however it broke way more often, 20k vs 60k.

Look, there is no way you can tell me with a straight face Colt barrels only last 1,600 rounds. You just can't.
View Quote
thinking same exact thing. no fucking way colt barrel's only lasted 1,600 rds
Link Posted: 4/8/2017 6:45:14 AM EST
[#47]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


thinking same exact thing. no fucking way colt barrel's only lasted 1,600 rds
View Quote
I'd say wolf ammo but haven't seen any evidence of that in less than 5k.  
Link Posted: 4/8/2017 7:50:48 AM EST
[#48]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Sourced from Colt Canada? Or does Colt Defense have its own CHF machines too?
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
The Colt barrels were CHF also if I remember correctly.
Sourced from Colt Canada? Or does Colt Defense have its own CHF machines too?
Caniduh.
Link Posted: 4/8/2017 11:36:10 AM EST
[#49]
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Quoted:


Caniduh.
View Quote
If that's true there's no way, absolutely no way a Colt Canada barrel only got 1,800 rounds barrel life.

KAC uses those barrels on the SR-15 and those see way beyond 20,000 rounds of life.
Link Posted: 4/8/2017 11:40:03 AM EST
[#50]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Because they aren't CL or even melonited?
View Quote
They are not. I believe DD hammer forged them though for H&K.

This is why battlefield Vegas burned through theirs so fast.

Nothing to protect the barrel from the heat. The civilian barrels would be like having Vulcan/Hesse, making barrels for Colt.
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