Best looking US fighter of WWII? 56K BEWARE - Page 2

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Best looking US fighter of WWII? 56K BEWARE (Page 2 of 3)

Posted: 12/29/2005 6:32:14 PM EDT

[#1]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:

SG

Did you actually read my last post?

ANdy

Yes.

Still wrong.

SG

Whatever

I was thinking the same thing.

We could argue about this all night, but in the original spirit of the thread, i offer you a great photo of a Brit and and an American plane, two of my faves.

Can't we all just get along????

SG

Posted: 12/29/2005 6:34:11 PM EDT

[#2]

P61 Black Widow

Posted: 12/29/2005 6:35:08 PM EDT

[#3]

And I offer another two Contenders from each side

This would have been a beast if the war had gone on a little longer!

And so would this...

ANdy

Posted: 12/29/2005 6:36:27 PM EDT

[#4]

Quoted:
img.photobucket.com/albums/v133/macandy/bearcat.jpg
This would have been a beast if the war had gone on a little longer!

img.photobucket.com/albums/v133/macandy/SeaFury.jpg
And so would this...

ANdy

Now those I agree with you on.

SG

Posted: 12/29/2005 6:38:05 PM EDT

[#5]

Shark mouth painted P-40. Classic lines with a great paint job to accent it. The bubble canopy of the P-51D makes for better visibility, but the lines aren't as pleasing to my eyes.

Posted: 12/29/2005 6:38:07 PM EDT

[#6]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I say the P40 was an obsolete death trap that needlessly killed many USAAF pilots in an unequal struggle with a superior plane.

Really?

Against the superior planes of the Japanese, the AVG racked up a kill ratio that's still quite awesome.....one of the best of any squadrons ever to take to the skies. 70:1, 296 victories, 9 men lost.

It was rugged, had terrific dive speed, and good firepower.

It was outdated, but still VERY effective if you knew how to use it to its advantages, like Chennault did.

Yes really...

They were swept from the skies with ease over the SWPAC and it was only the arrival of the P38 and F4U-1's that got some semblance of air superiority.

The P40's over China were doing slash and dash attacks against older Jap fighters and bombers, not Zeros, they did not stand their ground and maintain air superiorty.

My point remains valid, the USAAF could have fought the Japs in the SWPAC in 42/43 with the FAR superior Mustang if they had not sat on their hands.

ANdy

????

Better get your history book out and read up on the campaign of the AVG. They did fly against Zeros, they did not retreat air domain, and considering the MINISCULE amount of aircraft they had against the opposition, flew nearly unchallenged near the end of their reign....which is a good way of describing AIR SUPERIORITY.

What kind WWII books do they teach you from in Britain? Japanese ones?

Posted: 12/29/2005 6:38:58 PM EDT

[#7]

Quoted:
Quoted:
img.photobucket.com/albums/v133/macandy/bearcat.jpg
This would have been a beast if the war had gone on a little longer!

img.photobucket.com/albums/v133/macandy/SeaFury.jpg
And so would this...

ANdy

Now those I agree with you on.

SG

I watch them both fly every Summer, that Sea Fury was parked less than 10 miles from my house. Both have to be seen flying to believed! Super agile and climb like angels

ANdy

Posted: 12/29/2005 6:44:51 PM EDT

[#8]

P-38

By far.

HH

Posted: 12/29/2005 6:46:53 PM EDT

[#9]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I say the F4U followed closely by the F8 Bearcat.

Best sounding would be the Hawker Sea Fury.

FYI for those not in the know, the Bearcat is the fastest propeller driven aircraft in the world 528.33 mph
www.rarebear.com/bear2.jpg

Didn't the Russian Bear approach Mach in their turboprops?

I may be wrong, threads like these get me to tap the memory banks.

The Bear is capable of over 500mph (.8 Mach), but since it never ran a closed course for speed, the Rare Bear gets the title.

As it should.

Bears are U-G-L-Y.

Posted: 12/29/2005 6:52:45 PM EDT

[#10]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
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Better get your history book out and read up on the campaign of the AVG. They did fly against Zeros,

Can you site me a verifiable source for combat with Zeros? Oscars were what the Japanese Army flew but were often reported as 'zeros' as they looked very similar.

www.warbirdforum.com/neumann.htm

home.att.net/~jbaugher1/p40_6.html

Posted: 12/29/2005 6:56:00 PM EDT

[#11]

This.....

or this.....

Posted: 12/29/2005 7:00:35 PM EDT

[#12]

P-47 Thunderbolt for sure. My father flew one in Europe. In 1944 one he flew took a nearly direct hit by a German AAA shell during an attack on a German airbase but it still got him home safely. No other plane of the period was as rugged and durable. After he landed it back at his base in Belgium it was junked. It was too damaged to be repaired. If he had been flying a P-51 I wouldn't be here now. It's beautiful to me.

Posted: 12/29/2005 7:06:24 PM EDT

[#13]

P-51

Posted: 12/29/2005 7:07:59 PM EDT

[#14]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:

Better get your history book out and read up on the campaign of the AVG. They did fly against Zeros,

Can you site me a verifiable source for combat with Zeros? Oscars were what the Japanese Army flew but were often reported as 'zeros' as they looked very similar.

www.warbirdforum.com/neumann.htm

home.att.net/~jbaugher1/p40_6.html

Schilling & "Tex" Hill's books both claim they flew against Zeros. I have numerous books that mention it matter of fact, as well, but then I see googling that there is some debate about it. Never imagined there was any question that they had faced Zeros.

Don't know how you confirm it either way at this point.....it was completely 100% pilot testimony what they met in the air, so if pilots said "Zeros", and historians claim otherwise, who fucking knows.

I still think the P-40 was a good plane when you used it to its advantages.

Posted: 12/29/2005 7:19:46 PM EDT

[#15]

The P-40E of the same vintage as the P-51B had a less powerful engine but weighed less so it was 50MPH slower, carried less of an external load, had shorter legs and was less manuverable. I agree; it was a better plane.

Don't get me wrong, the P-40 outclassed it's foreign contempories, Zero, Me-109, and Spitfire in may categories at Americas entrance into WW2. The problem is it stagnated and the others, except the Zero, continued to improve. The biggest problem, however, was tactics. Chenault, with the AVG, proved that dogfghting was dead and pushed the "shoot-n-scoot" attack to capatalize on the strength of the P-40, it's speed and dive rate, +40MPH and +130MPH respectively vs. contempory Jap fighters. However, at the lower speeds that comes with dogfighting, the Zero ate it's lunch. The fighter generals refused to listen to Chenault, hence the heavy losses for the first year of the war.

The P-51 had better performance than the P-40 so it's only logical that it would perform even better in the same scenarios.

Posted: 12/29/2005 7:24:07 PM EDT

[#16]

Fw190d-9 > all

Posted: 12/29/2005 7:26:14 PM EDT

[#17]

Quoted:
P-47 Thunderbolt for sure. My father flew one in Europe. In 1944 one he flew took a nearly direct hit by a German AAA shell during an attack on a German airbase but it still got him home safely. No other plane of the period was as rugged and durable. After he landed it back at his base in Belgium it was junked. It was too damaged to be repaired. If he had been flying a P-51 I wouldn't be here now. It's beautiful to me.

There are many stories like that, cylinders shot away, German fighters running out of ammo trying to shoot them down, several feet of wing missing, etc and the pilot is still able to bring the plane home.. The Jug was one rugged machine.

Posted: 12/29/2005 7:30:18 PM EDT

[#18]

Quoted:
Quoted:
P-47 Thunderbolt for sure. My father flew one in Europe. In 1944 one he flew took a nearly direct hit by a German AAA shell during an attack on a German airbase but it still got him home safely. No other plane of the period was as rugged and durable. After he landed it back at his base in Belgium it was junked. It was too damaged to be repaired. If he had been flying a P-51 I wouldn't be here now. It's beautiful to me.

There are many stories like that, cylinders shot away, German fighters running out of ammo trying to shoot them down, several feet of wing missing, etc and the pilot is still able to bring the plane home.. The Jug was one rugged machine.

The Hurricane was a rugged bitch for the Brits, too. Not the fastest, but damn it was tough.

Posted: 12/29/2005 7:31:22 PM EDT

[#19]

Quoted:
P-38

+1

Posted: 12/29/2005 7:36:12 PM EDT

[#20]

Corsair. Sexiest airplane to fly, EVER. Seriously, how could you not vote for the plane named after pirates.

Posted: 12/29/2005 7:37:23 PM EDT

[#21]

Got to go with the Corsair.

Watched way too many episodes of Baa Baa Black Sheep as a kid.

Posted: 12/29/2005 7:53:10 PM EDT

[#22]

The P-51D is the sexiest propeller driven plane in the world. Bar none.

The F-4U is next. Then the P-47 and then the P-40.

Posted: 12/29/2005 8:00:16 PM EDT

[#23]

Quoted:
P51D. Without a doubt, THE sexiest man-made death-dealer to ever take flight.

www.richard-seaman.com/Aircraft/AirShows/WanakaWarbirds/Mustangs/US/FlyingLevelRearSideView.jpg

PLUS 1
Phessor

Posted: 12/29/2005 8:00:58 PM EDT

[#24]

Quoted:
Quoted:
P-38

I agree, aethetically, I think it's the prettiest plane the US put to service.

www.trinketstotreasures.com/images/b11b283.jpg

+38!

Posted: 12/29/2005 8:11:40 PM EDT

[#25]

P-38

Posted: 12/29/2005 8:13:01 PM EDT

[#26]

P-38. I'm glad to say that grandpa worked on those in WWII.

Posted: 12/29/2005 8:20:26 PM EDT

[#27]

Quoted:
Take those pussy props and go home....

13 footers on the Corsair rules!!!!

Hell that is the reason for the gull wings....so the props would clear the ground....too cool.

Now make it a super Corsair with the Pratt and Whitney R-4360 and I'll agree with ya.

Posted: 12/30/2005 12:41:20 AM EDT

[#28]

Tie between these two.

Posted: 12/30/2005 3:40:39 AM EDT

[#29]

F6F Hellcat

Posted: 12/30/2005 7:24:47 AM EDT

[#30]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:

Better get your history book out and read up on the campaign of the AVG. They did fly against Zeros,

Can you site me a verifiable source for combat with Zeros? Oscars were what the Japanese Army flew but were often reported as 'zeros' as they looked very similar.

www.warbirdforum.com/neumann.htm

home.att.net/~jbaugher1/p40_6.html

Schilling & "Tex" Hill's books both claim they flew against Zeros. I have numerous books that mention it matter of fact, as well, but then I see googling that there is some debate about it. Never imagined there was any question that they had faced Zeros.

Don't know how you confirm it either way at this point.....it was completely 100% pilot testimony what they met in the air, so if pilots said "Zeros", and historians claim otherwise, who fucking knows.

I still think the P-40 was a good plane when you used it to its advantages.

That's the point. AFAIK, the Japanese Navy flew near the coast and it was the Army operating inland. The same thing happened over Burma were RAF pilots kept reporting 'Zeros' when they were not deployed there. But as you say, no one can prove much with hindsight as the Japs have not produced much in the line of books on their operations in China.

Leaving aside the P40's merits, (and yes, the AVG pilots performed amazingly), the big thing was the tactics Chennault came up with to deal with the more nimble Jap fighters in less agile fighters.

Unfortunately, both the US and British Brass poohed poohed his reports and regarded his tactics as lacking in testicular fortitude. Boom and zoom, only attacking when you had the advantage of height and surprise, always work as a two man unit, no freelancing, don't get in a turning dogfight and don't be ashamed to run away bravely when the situation gets too hairy. These tactics ran counter to the 'Knight of the Air' fighting Mano e Mano instincts of the Brass, many of which were WWI vets.

But pilots are smart people and quickly learned these lessons for themselves in '42.

Despite what you may think I rate Chennault very highly and feel he was one of the most underated Airforce leaders of WWII.

ANdy

Excellent article here;

Flying Tiger, Hidden Dragon

Posted: 12/30/2005 7:29:17 AM EDT

[#31]

P-47.

My Grandpa used them for killin' Japs.

Posted: 12/30/2005 8:41:29 AM EDT

[#32]

Quoted:
P-51

P-40

F-4U

P-47

I say the P-40 was the best looking of the bunch. Very cool, clean lines.

That's because it was descended from this nimble plane, the Curtiss Hawk 75, designed around a radial engine. A real pilot's airplane, bought by many air forces in the late 1930s. The USA called it the P36.

Putting a long heavy inline engine ruined the geometry and balance of the plane- never the same flying qualities after that.

Posted: 12/30/2005 9:13:03 AM EDT

[#33]

Quoted:
The P-47!

I may be lonely, but I'm true to the Jug!

+1. Jugs rule!!

Posted: 12/30/2005 1:54:55 PM EDT

[#34]

P-38 Lightening

Air Crew

Posted: 12/30/2005 2:14:52 PM EDT

[#35]

Honorable Mentions

Brewster Buffalo

Curtiss F9C Sparrowhawk

Close up of an F9C Sparrowhawk on U.S.S. Macon's trapeze

Posted: 12/30/2005 2:20:18 PM EDT

[#36]

P-40 was nice looking, but had erectile dysfunction when it came to fighting!!

The P-51D, Had the looks had the balls, had the testosterone, had control of all skies it took to.

Runners up are:

F4U corsair
p-39 aircobra (for looks only)

Posted: 12/30/2005 2:29:42 PM EDT

[#37]

Cadillac of the Skies

Posted: 12/30/2005 2:47:11 PM EDT

[#38]

Quoted:That's the point. AFAIK, the Japanese Navy flew near the coast and it was the Army operating inland. The same thing happened over Burma were RAF pilots kept reporting 'Zeros' when they were not deployed there. But as you say, no one can prove much with hindsight as the Japs have not produced much in the line of books on their operations in China.

Leaving aside the P40's merits, (and yes, the AVG pilots performed amazingly), the big thing was the tactics Chennault came up with to deal with the more nimble Jap fighters in less agile fighters.

Unfortunately, both the US and British Brass poohed poohed his reports and regarded his tactics as lacking in testicular fortitude. Boom and zoom, only attacking when you had the advantage of height and surprise, always work as a two man unit, no freelancing, don't get in a turning dogfight and don't be ashamed to run away bravely when the situation gets too hairy. These tactics ran counter to the 'Knight of the Air' fighting Mano e Mano instincts of the Brass, many of which were WWI vets.

But pilots are smart people and quickly learned these lessons for themselves in '42.

Despite what you may think I rate Chennault very highly and feel he was one of the most underated Airforce leaders of WWII.

ANdy

Excellent article here;

Flying Tiger, Hidden Dragon

Chennault's tactics mirror those of Werner Moelders of the Luftwaffe who developed these tactics with the Condor Legion. Both were visonaries!!!!

Funny, how most of the great WWII aces who SURVIVED were boom and zoom pilots.

Here is a snidbet of how the Ace-of-Aces Erich Hartmann was taught REALITY on the value of a Wingman in JG52 by Alfred Grislawski.

III./JG 52's commander, Major Hubertus von Bonin, placed Hartmann under Oberfeldwebel Grislawski's wings. The miner's son Alfred Grislawski found a particular pleasure in teaching this newcomer the name of the game. He made a few mock combats with Hartmann. This relieved Hartmann of some of his ambitious ideas, but Grislawski had to admit that although Hartmann had much to learn regarding combat tactics, he actually was a quite talented pilot.

The trouble started when they started flying combat missions together. Grislawski immediately noted that the newcomer was one of those who thought they were going to "shoot together a Knight's Cross" in no time. Hartmann barely had started to leave his place behind Grislawski's aircraft to direct his Bf 109 against an I-16, when his earphones seemed to explode:

"You bloody idiot! What the hell are you think you're doing? I'm your leader! Get back in place or I'll shoot you down!"

Grislawski kept cursing over the R/T all the way back to base, and when they had landed, the Oberfeldwebel gave the Leutnant a dressing down that he would never forget. Then - in front of the sweating Hartmann - Grislawski turned to his friend "Paule" Rossmann and said:

"Oh man, this is too much! What a baby they have sent us! Just look at his face - like a cute little boy!"

From then on, Grislawski never addressed Hartmann otherwise than as Bubi, "Little boy."

Hartmann proved to be extremely individualistic, and von Bonin definitely knew what he was doing when he assigned a vigorous and harsh worker's son as Alfred Grislawski as his teacher. The men at Soldatskaya used to gather around the radio equipment and listen to the R/T communication with amusement when Grislawski and Hartmann were out on combat missions.

"Are you so anxious to die, Bubi?"

"I'm sorry, sir!"

"Don't you 'sir' me, look after your tail instead!"

"I'll nail you for this, Bubi!"

"I'm sorry!"

"Your mother will be sorry!"

But finally, Hartmann learned the name of the game. On November 5, 1942 he achieved his first victory - against an Il-2 from 7 GShAP.

Last Note: This was the beginning of a long a deep friendship, which would last until Erich "Bubi" Hartmann passed away on 19 September 1993.

On 19 September 2003, incidentally to the day 10 years later, his friend and teacher Alfred Grislawski passed away.

Posted: 12/30/2005 3:00:28 PM EDT

[#39]

BTW, if you asked about the most beautiful Fighter of any of the Antagonist Period............

Then the SPITFIRE XI, That plane could make a man explode in his pants!!!!

Posted: 12/30/2005 3:03:11 PM EDT

[#40]

For bombers i'd have to toss a coin between the A-26 Invader and the B-25 Mitchell!!

Sorry Pap whereever you went after you died but those Martin beasts you built in Mayland were the by far the ugliest!!! ( The Martin B-26 Marauder)

Posted: 12/30/2005 3:04:30 PM EDT

[#41]

I voted for the P40 because my grandfather was a medic in the Flying Tigers.

Posted: 12/30/2005 3:13:08 PM EDT

[#42]

Posted: 12/30/2005 3:16:00 PM EDT

[#43]

I'd take the F4U-C, I love the gull wing, the sound of the R-2800 Double Wasp, and four 20mm Hispano's.

Posted: 12/30/2005 3:32:47 PM EDT

[#44]

Quoted:
P51D. Without a doubt, THE sexiest man-made death-dealer to ever take flight.

www.richard-seaman.com/Aircraft/AirShows/WanakaWarbirds/Mustangs/US/FlyingLevelRearSideView.jpg

ABSOLUTELY!

Posted: 12/30/2005 3:33:52 PM EDT

[#45]

Quoted:

Putting a long heavy inline engine ruined the geometry and balance of the plane- never the same flying qualities after that.

Yep. It was faster and could operate at higher altitudes after the new engine.

Funny thing is the P-40 wasn't picked becasue it was that good...it was picked because it could be produced in high numbers in a hurry.

SG

Posted: 12/30/2005 3:41:28 PM EDT

[#46]

Not American but i always loved the Mosquito.
Brits used it for every secret mission

Technical Details
The Mosquito Nighter Fighter Mk II was powered by two 1075 kW Rolls-Royce XXIII engines that gave it a maximum speed of 365 mph and a range of 1671 miles. It's armament was the standard (for the Mossie) four 0.303 machine guns in the nose and four 20 mm cannons under the nose in the forward bomb-bay. It first flew in 1942.

The Mosquito Mk VI was powered by two Rolls-Royce Merlin engines, first the 1250 hp Merlin XXI and then the 1650 hp Merlin XXV. It's maximum speed was 380 mph at 13,000 feet fully loaded. It could do over 400 easily without bombs. It's range was 1205 miles, 1705 with extra fuel tanks. The Mk VI fighter/bomber was the most numerous version made. The Mosquito was the fastest operational aircraft of the 2nd World War until mid-1944. The Mk VI was armed with the standard 4+4 in the nose, with an additional bomb load of 2 250 lb bombs in the rear of the bomb-bay and two more on pylons on the wings, in-board of the engines. It first flew in 1943.

The upgraded Night Fighter Mk XXX was powered by the 1710 hp Rolls-Royce Merlin 76 engines giving it a maximum speed of 416 mph and a range of 1159 miles. It had the standard 4+4 armament in the nose. It first flew in 1944.

Posted: 12/30/2005 3:45:15 PM EDT

[#47]

Quoted:
F6F Hellcat
www.warbirdalley.com/images/F6F_warbirds_tw.jpg

Nothing beats the Big Fucking Radials.

So here's a couple more F6F Hellcats.

P-47M

Lavochkin La5 and La7

Posted: 12/30/2005 3:48:12 PM EDT

[#48]

Quoted:
Honorable Mentions

Brewster Buffalo
www.compass.dircon.co.uk/buffalo.jpg

Curtiss F9C Sparrowhawk
upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/06/F9C_Sparrowhawk.jpg

Close up of an F9C Sparrowhawk on U.S.S. Macon's trapeze
www.naval-airships.org/image/f9c2.gif

www.history.navy.mil/photos/images/g410000/g416532.jpg

www.history.navy.mil/photos/images/h84000/h84208.jpg

www.history.navy.mil/photos/images/g460000/g463185.jpg

www.history.navy.mil/photos/images/h77000/h77430.jpg

www.history.navy.mil/photos/images/h80000/h80773.jpg

www.history.navy.mil/photos/images/b00001/b04184o.jpg

www.history.navy.mil/photos/images/h77000/h77427.jpg

www.history.navy.mil/photos/images/g410000/g416534.jpg

Wow! Best. Post. Ever!