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Posted: 2/22/2006 5:18:48 PM EDT
[#1]
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Posted: 2/22/2006 5:23:10 PM EDT
[#2]
Once upon a time the USAF experimented with, I think, a .30-378. There are probably flatter shooting rounds now. Generally, they experience diminishing returns: it takes more & more powder to achieve smaller and smaller velocity gains. Further, recoil increases with the momentum of both the bullet and the burning powder, so recoil increases more so than velocity (increasing recoil tends to reduce accuracy). And barrel erosion increases significantly, so much so that you will quickly burn out a barrel. If I was looking for a long range rifle round, I'd probably go to a 6.5-284, or whatever the current Highpower Long Range hot ticket is. Why? I'd expect it to be a reasonable compromise (except perhaps a bit short on barrel life). I tend to view something like 6-08, 6.5-08, or 7-08 to be ideal as general purpose rifle rounds. But .223 and .308 have significant logistics advantages. |
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Posted: 2/22/2006 5:25:31 PM EDT
[#3]
No. ballistic coefficient has a lot to do with it. |
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Posted: 2/22/2006 5:27:24 PM EDT
[#4]
No sir, you are mistaken. These snipers can get any round that they want. Money is not a problem, nor is availability. But they choose the .308. Wonder why? |
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Posted: 2/22/2006 5:34:23 PM EDT
[#5]
I think the question is, how far do you want to reach out?
Sure fast is flat, but after a short range (300 yards?) the lighter faster bullets drop like a rock. You need a heavy bullet to retain its velocity in the longer ranges (600 yards?) which is obviously going to arcing a lot more. 6.5's, like a 6.5-06 would be an excellent shooter. .270 isn't bad either. The big thirties will get you excellent performance but with the added weight you get punished that much more. |
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Posted: 2/22/2006 5:38:08 PM EDT
[#6]
Here's a target that I shot at 3 times at 600 yards, with my Accuracy International AE.
 Just how much accuracy do you need?  Read about it here: www.theboxotruth.com/docs/edu3.htm 
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Posted: 2/22/2006 5:38:29 PM EDT
[#7]
30-378
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Posted: 2/22/2006 5:39:08 PM EDT
[#8]
.204 Ruger is a fairly common, affordable flat shooter
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Posted: 2/22/2006 5:50:19 PM EDT
[#9]
+1 for the 22-250
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Posted: 2/22/2006 6:00:54 PM EDT
[#10]
For long range, it's all about longest super sonic flight range.
This speaks more about the bullet's ability to cover ground quickly while retaining the most velocity. Guns & Ammo did a review on shooting the 22 Cheetah to 1200 yards and beyond back about 8-10 years ago, results were very impressive when they used 75-80grn bullets. 3200-3400fps with a 75-80grn bullet is going to be a very flat shooting long range round. Larger diameter loadings, 300RUM or 30-378 can get to 1800 yards supersonically with some loadings from what I've read and that's knocking on the heels of the 50BMG with mil loadings dropping through at about 1800 yards and match loadings dropping through at about 2200 yards. The new 416 Barrett round will be a nasty bugger, wonder if barrels will last for more than 500 rounds. Used to be a 338 MKV out there that was a 50BMG necked down to 338, think the guy from State Arms was making that barrel burner. |
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Posted: 2/22/2006 6:06:11 PM EDT
[#11]
and just shear mass at extrme range .50 doesn't shoot that flat comparde to many rifle cartridges out to say 700M or so but pass that it sure shoots flatter |
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Posted: 2/22/2006 6:29:46 PM EDT
[#12]
Not saying, or implying, that .308 Win is a bad round. But it's not used so widely by military snipers because it's the best. It's used because it's "good enough" and it's relatively cheap and easy to come by in large enough amounts to supply thousands of snipers with quality ammo. |
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Posted: 2/22/2006 7:04:22 PM EDT
[#13]
-it's inherantly more accurate than almost any other high powered cartridge -has enough power to kill at almost all ranges that marksman can typically make good hits at; What good is a 2,000 yard gun if the shooter isn't skilled enough to put the bullet in the right place. .mil & LEO snipers are good, but not that good, spare a very select group. -modest recoil -can fire ammo already in use by the military -short action that lends itself to a smaller lighter receiver, leaving more weight for other stuff (even though the Army uses a Long Action receiver in the M24 There are a boat load of cartridges that shoot flatter than a 308. Exactly who is best depends of the range first. Out to 200 yards a 22-250 might be king, but out to 600 a 30-378 might be king. Entirely too many factors to name one cartridge at 'THE FLATTEST SHOOTING CARTRIDGE IN THE WORLD." |
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Posted: 2/22/2006 8:26:53 PM EDT
[#14]
Painless- I agree that the .308 is very accurate and the most used LR caliber, but I disagree on:
*The flatest shooting- no way, not even close to a variety of other calibers. That was the question asked. *The lethality of the caliber. The energy of a .308 is actually quite poor at a 1000 yds, despite the fact that that round is accurately shot at that distance all the time. Many people frequently find .308 bullets lying on the ground in front of steel plates, mildly deformed or pristine condition. The optimal game weight for a .308 at 1000 yds is only 94 pounds, just over half the weight of an average man. The .308 is popular with LE and .Mil because of the data available for it, its tried and true. The research was done long ago on how to lob a .308 in a big 'ol arc a long 'ol way. Not the best, but why have do the research on a new cailber when you have decades of data to support the .308 ballistics? The .308 does the job in most cases, so they use it. There was a reason the Mil chambered their .308s for a long time in long action- in case they wanted to move up to .30-06 or .300 WM. |
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Posted: 2/22/2006 8:35:13 PM EDT
[#15]
Barret .416??
Well..... I just picked up his new magazine tonight. |
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Posted: 2/22/2006 8:42:23 PM EDT
[#16]
Or the........... 7mm WSM .257 Weatherby .22-250 223 WSSM 220 Swift 25-06 .17 Remington It really depends on what you want to do with it. Are we talking Big GAme? Varmints? Target Rifle? My 6mm with 55 grain Ballistic tips shoots really well and is close to 4000 fps. |
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Posted: 2/22/2006 8:46:04 PM EDT
[#17]
The .220 Swift and .22-250 are the fastest/flatest shooting common rounds. There are faster wildcats out there but when you're up at these velocities you're not getting a whole lot of barrel life.
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Posted: 2/22/2006 8:49:21 PM EDT
[#18]
tag
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Posted: 2/22/2006 8:49:33 PM EDT
[#19]
All three to be kills?  J/k O_P |
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Posted: 2/22/2006 8:53:59 PM EDT
[#20]
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Posted: 2/22/2006 8:54:39 PM EDT
[#21]
6.5-284
What did I win? |
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Posted: 2/22/2006 8:56:12 PM EDT
[#22]
6-284 or 6.5-284
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Posted: 2/22/2006 9:01:36 PM EDT
[#23]
With all due respect, .338 Lapua is garnering increasing interest. Face shots at 1200 meters are certainly appealing, and since it is larger, the Lapua is probably closer in capability to the .50 than the 7.62, even though it is closer in size, and rifle weight, to the 7.62N. That said, the 7.62 will be around for a long, long time. |
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Posted: 2/22/2006 9:14:10 PM EDT
[#24]
the most undervalued round, 7mm Mauser. It is ballistically perfect. I have an FN49 in this caliber and I love it! The trajectory is incredibly flat!
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Posted: 2/22/2006 9:15:58 PM EDT
[#25]
Yep, a 22-250 is close, but the .220 Swift beats it out. At 300 yards I've only got about 4 inches or so of drop. |
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Posted: 2/22/2006 9:32:26 PM EDT
[#26]
Accuracy and flat shooting are two very different things in my opinion. Id much rather use my 7mm WSM at long ranges than my 22-250 even though muzzle velocity may be higher. A heavier bullet seems to be less effected by wind and other things. That BS aside, 204 rugers are fun
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Posted: 2/22/2006 9:34:55 PM EDT
[#27]
300 wby mag is somewhat like a laser....I know I owe one, I know a few on here who can also attest to this rounds flat out flattnessssss
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Posted: 2/22/2006 9:47:30 PM EDT
[#28]
I think a .257 Weatherby would be close to the top of that list. How flat does a 6.5-284 shoot 
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Posted: 2/22/2006 10:17:21 PM EDT
[#29]
6.5x284 shoots very flat, but you will lose the throat after short while if you push it too far.
I shoot a 7mm STW built on a M70 action and can almost get the 3500fps mark with a 150gr Nos BT but start to crater primers too bad. I learned my lesson working up a load at 500ft elevation and going hunting at 5000ft. Took a shot, ejected the case, primer on the floorplate Somebody is always going to make something bigger, faster, "flatter" but the bottom line is always going to be shootability and accuracy. You can take a non shooter and put them behind any 308 and help them not develop a flinch. Take the same shooter and put them behind some bellurin mannumb round that shoots 120grs of powder and you'll have a hard time teaching them to release the shot w/o a flinch. |
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Posted: 2/22/2006 10:26:03 PM EDT
[#30]
155mm RAP rounds.....
16 inch shells.... 120mm penatrator rounds are up there too i'd think..... oh from the shoulder? .408 chey tac.... if i had to pick one it would be that -Roth |
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Posted: 2/22/2006 10:55:07 PM EDT
[#31]
105 mm howitzer case, necked down to take 17 gr. HMR bullets...
Oughta be good for one shot... |
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Posted: 2/22/2006 10:58:37 PM EDT
[#32]
tag
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Posted: 2/22/2006 11:14:13 PM EDT
[#33]
Many of these guys dump thousands upon thousands of dollars into the most accurate firearms that can be produced.
Maybe, just maybe, they have some idea as to what rounds are the most accurate, and to what degree "flat shooting" has to do with it.  www.benchrest.com/ edit: fixed link |
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Posted: 2/22/2006 11:59:55 PM EDT
[#34]
.444 Marlin
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Posted: 2/23/2006 4:55:09 AM EDT
[#35]
Sorry voilsb. I posted and then went to sleep. I was unclear in my post I was mostly speaking of the other types of snipers, i.e., FBI, Delta, big police depts, etc. These are the ones that can "get whatever they want", and choose the .308. You are ceratainly correct that the average Army sniper or Designitated Marksman will have to "do with" whatever is available. My buddy, brianksain and his organization, supplies many snipers with whatever they need through americansnipers.org/. But they do not send ammo, as this is not allowed. Tell your friends to contact Brian if they haven't already. And please thank them for their service. |
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