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Posted: 10/29/2013 6:30:48 AM EDT
[#1]
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He hasn't even learned to play guitar yet. Do you really think it's beneficial to a beginner to lesten to his skritchy, scratchy, thumpy, wrong note, dead note wanking at the 120 dB you need to run a tube amp at to get good tone? I'd bet a buck if he gets a 50 watt Marshall or Mesa he very quickly says, "It's not distorted enough at comfortable playing volumes. I need a distortion pedal". Then you are right back to solid state where you said you didn't want to be. 
Sure you can buy the Marshall or Mesa to have something cool to lean the guitar against but a "practice" amp is far more practical for a learner. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Gibson Les Paul and Marshall/Mesa Boogie(Mesa is USA made) is the correct answer to any "what setup should I buy once cry once" thread. Yes the modern modeling amps can pretend to sound very good, but at the end of the day they are just faking it. Get the real deal. There are some other sweet setups out there, but I'd stick with the tried and true. He hasn't even learned to play guitar yet. Do you really think it's beneficial to a beginner to lesten to his skritchy, scratchy, thumpy, wrong note, dead note wanking at the 120 dB you need to run a tube amp at to get good tone? I'd bet a buck if he gets a 50 watt Marshall or Mesa he very quickly says, "It's not distorted enough at comfortable playing volumes. I need a distortion pedal". Then you are right back to solid state where you said you didn't want to be.
Sure you can buy the Marshall or Mesa to have something cool to lean the guitar against but a "practice" amp is far more practical for a learner. Marshall makes some kick ass practice amps that are very versatile. For instance, I've had one of their valve state 65watt combos for ~15 years. The tone is more than adequate at practice volume and the ol girl is loud enough for jam sessions/band practice/gigs where the amp is mic'd. And yes, while tube amps don't come into their own until you start pushing some volume through them, do you really think they are that bad at practice volumes? What equipment/eq settings were you using to experience this? I have a hunch you weren't playing a marshall or boogie when you experienced the lack of distortion at low volumes, both brands have incredible gain channels. Not every Marshall or Boogie is 100watt+ stack. They make some kick ass combos and even mini stacks that are well within his budget even with a Les Paul. No he doesn't need such a setup to learn and should invest in a good guitar teacher. But it doesn't mean he needs to get a squier or epiphone starter pack until he is worthy. |
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Posted: 10/29/2013 7:22:55 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Earlier folks were promoting tube amps so I assumed you ment a tube Marshall or Mesa. Marshall makes some kick ass practice amps that are very versatile. For instance, I've had one of their valve state 65watt combos for ~15 years. Valvestate is solid state not tube so I would expect you can get whatever tone you want a whatever volume you wish since you aren't relying on overdriving tubes to get distortion. The tone is more than adequate at practice volume and the ol girl is loud enough for jam sessions/band practice/gigs where the amp is mic'd. I gig small venues unmiked with a 4 watt tube amp and efficient speakers. And yes, while tube amps don't come into their own until you start pushing some volume through them, do you really think they are that bad at practice volumes? They are great at practice volume levels if you play jazz.  What equipment/eq settings were you using to experience this? I have a hunch you weren't playing a marshall or boogie when you experienced the lack of distortion at low volumes, both brands have incredible gain channels. I'm interested in classic rock so I have played the typical amps associated with classic rock such as Marshall Plexis and JCM 800s. My "high wattage" tube amp is a Seymour Duncan 84-40 and my current low wattage amp is a 4 watt homebuilt version of Ken Fischer's Trainwreck. Any of the high wattage master volume amps can sound good at low volumes with preamp distortion. However, to sound like the recording or concert you need some poweramp distortion that's where the volume issue comes into play.
Not every Marshall or Boogie is 100watt+ stack. They make some kick ass combos and even mini stacks that are well within his budget even with a Les Paul. You are absolutely correct. A few years ago Marshall put out some 1 watt versions of their classic JTM45, SL1959 (Plexi), and JCM800. All tube and from the reviews very good. Orange puts out a couple low watt all tube amps. But when Most people say, "Get a Marshall", are they refering to these little amps most people aren't familar with or a 50 watt head? No he doesn't need such a setup to learn and should invest in a good guitar teacher. But it doesn't mean he needs to get a squier or epiphone starter pack until he is worthy. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Gibson Les Paul and Marshall/Mesa Boogie(Mesa is USA made) is the correct answer to any "what setup should I buy once cry once" thread. Yes the modern modeling amps can pretend to sound very good, but at the end of the day they are just faking it. Get the real deal. There are some other sweet setups out there, but I'd stick with the tried and true. He hasn't even learned to play guitar yet. Do you really think it's beneficial to a beginner to lesten to his skritchy, scratchy, thumpy, wrong note, dead note wanking at the 120 dB you need to run a tube amp at to get good tone? I'd bet a buck if he gets a 50 watt Marshall or Mesa he very quickly says, "It's not distorted enough at comfortable playing volumes. I need a distortion pedal". Then you are right back to solid state where you said you didn't want to be.
Sure you can buy the Marshall or Mesa to have something cool to lean the guitar against but a "practice" amp is far more practical for a learner. Earlier folks were promoting tube amps so I assumed you ment a tube Marshall or Mesa. Marshall makes some kick ass practice amps that are very versatile. For instance, I've had one of their valve state 65watt combos for ~15 years. Valvestate is solid state not tube so I would expect you can get whatever tone you want a whatever volume you wish since you aren't relying on overdriving tubes to get distortion. The tone is more than adequate at practice volume and the ol girl is loud enough for jam sessions/band practice/gigs where the amp is mic'd. I gig small venues unmiked with a 4 watt tube amp and efficient speakers. And yes, while tube amps don't come into their own until you start pushing some volume through them, do you really think they are that bad at practice volumes? They are great at practice volume levels if you play jazz. What equipment/eq settings were you using to experience this? I have a hunch you weren't playing a marshall or boogie when you experienced the lack of distortion at low volumes, both brands have incredible gain channels. I'm interested in classic rock so I have played the typical amps associated with classic rock such as Marshall Plexis and JCM 800s. My "high wattage" tube amp is a Seymour Duncan 84-40 and my current low wattage amp is a 4 watt homebuilt version of Ken Fischer's Trainwreck. Any of the high wattage master volume amps can sound good at low volumes with preamp distortion. However, to sound like the recording or concert you need some poweramp distortion that's where the volume issue comes into play.
Not every Marshall or Boogie is 100watt+ stack. They make some kick ass combos and even mini stacks that are well within his budget even with a Les Paul. You are absolutely correct. A few years ago Marshall put out some 1 watt versions of their classic JTM45, SL1959 (Plexi), and JCM800. All tube and from the reviews very good. Orange puts out a couple low watt all tube amps. But when Most people say, "Get a Marshall", are they refering to these little amps most people aren't familar with or a 50 watt head? No he doesn't need such a setup to learn and should invest in a good guitar teacher. But it doesn't mean he needs to get a squier or epiphone starter pack until he is worthy. I agree wholeheartedly. Learning with crappy gear is frustrationg. However, trying to play in your bedroom with gear ment to be played in a concert hall can be equally frustrating. That's the issue I'm hoping the OP will avoid. |
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Posted: 10/29/2013 7:31:49 AM EDT
[#3]
OP, this may help you in your quest.
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