While I haven't read this whole thread it's not suprising that it's turned into yet another union bashing thread...GM's situation was'nt brought on entirely by the unions, Upper mangaement is also partly to blame. Look at some of the poorly designed cars they put out in the last 10 years. Sure, the guys on the shop floor built them, but upper management ok'ed the design,and engineering, however flawed it was, so, they as just as much to blame as the unions. Factor that with the millions in salary, stock options that some of the upper mangement gets (or used to)and you have a large, poorly managed company that makes shitboxes... As was said in another thread on this same subject, The unions have to learn that the company is not their personal piggy bank, and upper managment has to learn that in order to surivive, they are going to have to build a quality built,designed, vehicle. People do not want a vehicle that is in the shop for recalls, or has the paint flaking off, or breaks down alot, or is unsafe, they want a reliable vehicle, one that they can get in and drive to point"A" and back with very few if any problems. This reason alone is why the Japenese are where they are now. They build reliable cars, with American workers, in American plants, from American steel, at a wage as good or better than the UAW guy does. Until both party's get their collective heads out of their asses nothing will change. The UAW has to understand that things will have to change contract wise, if they want their members to keep sending them dues, Likewise GM's upper management has to understand that if they want to survive, they are going to have to improve the quality, design, engineering, of thier vehicles in short, quit building shitboxes designed to belly up at around 80,000 miles, figuring the customer is going to come back and buy another. That line of thinking alone is stupid, As most people who have had this happen to them will probably go buy a Jap car, and 200,000 problem free miles later, after it's paid off and they are still driving IT, they will buy another one of them instead.... In GM's case, there is plenty of blame to go around, trying to put it all on the Unions is idiotic, Upper management (or Mismanagement) deserves it's fair share as well.