Quoted: you're in a battle ground state. it is your duty as an American to vote for President Bush. otherwise, YOU deserve everything comrade kerry would give you. I will gladly accept whatever Kerry brings,  the important thing is that I do not compromise on an issue that is dear to me.      If I have learned anything with the Republicans controlling the legislative and executive branch is that there is not much difference between them and the Demoncrats.

you're hopeless and not even worth my time.

If you never brought politics up in the first place, would anyone care???

mist, where did you go? Speak up.

you're hopeless and not even worth my time

With close to 12k posts I have no doubt you are a very busy person.

Have a nice day  

Quoted: "Mist" ... is that german?

Hier stinkt etwas.....

there are some of us here. the problem is that the Democrat, has left us. the have lost there mind and went and said which way is so crazy , so unorthodox non American. that's what the party wants to do. in college i was a liberal gun owner. i have been around guns and owned guns my whole life. i feel like Zell Miller does. i feel like i have been left behind. lied to and wronged. so i bet if you asked allot of our members started out Democrat. The Democrat party has lost its mind. i still feel like you can vote Democrat at the local level, maybe even the state level. but im afraid the national level...never again.  i will be voting Bush. i voted for Bush the last time. so yes you can say there some of us. im a Democrat at local and some state level. not at National. so were do we fall at. im a gun owner first, i will not sacrifice my rights that's my MAIN ISSUE.  bUT NO WAY IN HELL I WOULD VOTE FOR KERRY! so this is the first time i will not be voting DEM. i
Ronald
ya flame away.

Quoted: I'm not sure I'm voting for Bush either.   I'll know in 11 days.

yea and he knows it too.

Quoted: Quoted: Just asking  ?  I thought this was a gun board, and after looking around and reading some  I feel the need to ask. Is there such a critter?

Indeed there ARE "such critters", and you are welcome if you believe the 2nd amendment means "people's" aka Individual's rights to own and utilize firearms are what is protected.

Granted, there's more than a FEW asshats here... but there are far more GEMS in these here parts... it's just kinda hard to FIND `em sometimes (kinda like the real thing ;)

Welcome Mist!

Quoted: Democrats are certainly welcome, just not ones who advocate banning guns. Zell Miller is widely liked here. Most people tend Libertarian actually. CRC

its funny how more and more libertarians are popping up... who knows, in a decade or two? And Zell is my inspiration as a democrat

There are more pro-gun Democrats and even pro gun liberals than you might imagine. There are lots of pro gun Dems at the local and state levels, and a few in the house.

I am a democrat, I describe myself as a moderate politically, and a little liberal on a few things. Guns are a make or break issue for me though so no way will I vote for Kerry. I am disgusted with the national party - they have lost their minds. They have nothing to offer, they are too busy engaging in an orgy of Dubya hating.

I engage in gun debates with other democrats on other boards.

I'm not interested in political debates on non-gun issues on this forum though.

Quoted: If you don't Vote you don't get to Bitch. So STFU till you do.  Oh,  dont you worry,  I will not just sit home.  Just not voting for Bush is not hurting his campaign enough.  I want maximum damage,  therefore I am seriously considering voting for Kerry.  It is going to be VERY tough to do so,  but........we have to do what we have to do.  An "amnesty" for illegal aliens proposed by "President Kerry" will not look nearly as attractive to a repub controlled congrees as one put forth by President Bush. That is my gamble.....I am willing to take the chance.   BTW......I have convinced more than a few other Republicans to do the same,  the fact that someone pointed out that Az is a battleground State just makes me feel that much better.   Have a nice day

Yeah, and then in 2006 we loose the Repub congress. What then?

Quoted: There are more pro-gun Democrats and even pro gun liberals than you might imagine. There are lots of pro gun Dems at the local and state levels, and a few in the house. I am a democrat, I describe myself as a moderate politically, and a little liberal on a few things.

Ditto.


*****And to follow up with thoughts for this election for this election:

It is a shame we have candidates like Kerry and Bush... the former who is 'flawwed' at the very least, and the latter, who normally I would side with (as i did in 2000), but he now believes he is doing the will of god (it actually is documented that W believes so, and has stated it)...




If i could leave two points for everyone reading this post:

a) Its a shame that in this day and age that Americans have to chose between "the lesser of two evils", and I do hear alot of ppl say that

b) **I really, really wish people would stop playing the religion card in politics... **

Yeah, and then in 2006 we loose the Repub congress. What then?

Get ready for 2008.

Quoted: <snip>   I just don't care for most Democrats.  Their platform and policies will be the ruin of this Nation.  They want bigger government, more taxes, less freedom and basicaly no personal responsibility, it is always someone or somethings fault.

Boy, you sure wouldn't like it here in Ohio then... `cause what YOU describe sounds like our last 2 REPUBLICAN Governors AND the 2 CURRENT Senators (Republicans) from here... although maybe not that last thing... sorta... but bigger govt - yep, more taxes (definitely) less freedom... yup, and not so much the last thing... that's just reserved for POLITICIAN types ;)

Quoted: If you don't Vote you don't get to Bitch. So STFU till you do.  Oh,  dont you worry,  I will not just sit home.  Just not voting for Bush is not hurting his campaign enough.  I want maximum damage,  therefore I am seriously considering voting for Kerry.  It is going to be VERY tough to do so,  but........we have to do what we have to do.  An "amnesty" for illegal aliens proposed by "President Kerry" will not look nearly as attractive to a repub controlled congrees as one put forth by President Bush. That is my gamble.....I am willing to take the chance.   BTW......I have convinced more than a few other Republicans to do the same,  the fact that someone pointed out that Az is a battleground State just makes me feel that much better.   Have a nice day

Not only those (and, IMO, good points all...) BUT also that BUSH will be a lame duck, and therefore will "rule" with even MORE "impunity" than EVER before... while KERRY, IMO will be LESS likely to SERIOUSLY "piss anyone" off... HIS FIRST term... I just hope he doesn't get in for a second, should he attain his first... there's a "movement" going on like that in Ohio as well... MOSTLY, amongst gun owners... pissed about LOTS of stuff, but MORE against our RINO senators than the prez... but some of them too....

Quoted: Quoted: There are more pro-gun Democrats and even pro gun liberals than you might imagine. There are lots of pro gun Dems at the local and state levels, and a few in the house. I am a democrat, I describe myself as a moderate politically, and a little liberal on a few things. Ditto. *****And to follow up with thoughts for this election for this election: It is a shame we have candidates like Kerry and Bush... the former who is 'flawwed' at the very least, and the latter, who normally I would side with (as i did in 2000), but he now believes he is doing the will of god (it actually is documented that W believes so, and has stated it)... If i could leave two points for everyone reading this post: a) Its a shame that in this day and age that Americans have to chose between "the lesser of two evils", and I do hear alot of ppl say that b) **I really, really wish people would stop playing the religion card in politics... **

+1!

Quoted: Quoted: Well, speaking as a Democrat with a pathologically high post count... I'm curious, have you participated at Democratic Underground?

No. I do look around over there a bit, and those people are just plain nuts. 100% emotional, 100% irrational, rabidly partisan to the degree that ridicule and belittle absolutely anything any noncommunist does. If Karl Rove came up with a cure for AIDS, they'd urge people not to use. Even if they didn't lock everything that deviates from the Little Red Book, arguing over there would be entirely pointless.

Quoted: Quoted: Are you going to vote for Bush? FWIW I will not be voting for Bush this election. I was ready to gotto war FOR the man during the last election debacle.  Unfortunately his stance on illegal immigration has turned me off so bad I cannot even describe how mad I am about it. YES........ I understand the implications of future SCOTUS nominees,  district judgeships,  possible new gun control under Kerry etc, etc....... I just don't care,  I will NOT have my vote taken for granted. Let the flames begin.......

The vote for president is evedant for all who  have some sommon sense.
Forget about Immigration , the economy will get along,Forget about your vote being taken for granted
( cutting off your nose to spite your face?)

If Kerry becomes president : We'll have terrorists running around like flies around a carcas.
They know he is a chickenshit phoney who doesn't have the moxy to make the hard choices.
He'll also Fvcxk up all kinds of stuff that isn't broken now.

If GW stays president the the world will know that we won't fvck around if you attack American citizens around the globe.
It is an easy equation.
Am I right??

Forget about Immigration

Sorry,  cannot do that.  The Repub party is slitting their own throat w/ unchecked immigration.   If left at it's current levels the Repub party will be but a footnote in a textbook.

Quoted: Curious, mist--do you support this plank of the Democrat's Platform: Strong and Sensible Gun Laws. A shocking level of gun violence on our streets and in our schools has shown America the need to keep guns away from those who shouldn't have them - in ways that respect the rights of hunters, sportsmen, and legitimate gun owners. The Columbine tragedy struck America's heart, but in its wake Republicans have done nothing to keep guns away from those who should not have them. Democrats believe that we should fight gun crime on all fronts - with stronger laws and stronger enforcement. That's why Democrats fought and passed the Brady Law and the Assault Weapons Ban. We increased federal, state, and local gun crime prosecution by 22 percent since 1992. Now gun crime is down by 35 percent. Now we must do even more. We need mandatory child safety locks, to protect our children. We should require a photo license I.D., a full background check, and a gun safety test to buy a new handgun in America. We support more federal gun prosecutors, ATF agents and inspectors, and giving states and communities another 10,000 prosecutors to fight gun crime. . . . taken from here:  www.democrats.org/about/2000platform.html Edit to fix link.

I do not support all of the Democratic platform, just most of it.  80 percent

Whereas I support only a very little of the Republican platform.  20 percent

Welcome anyway, we are a site first and foremost about our collective hobby.

Quoted: Quoted: <snip>   I just don't care for most Democrats.  Their platform and policies will be the ruin of this Nation.  They want bigger government, more taxes, less freedom and basicaly no personal responsibility, it is always someone or somethings fault. Boy, you sure wouldn't like it here in Ohio then... `cause what YOU describe sounds like our last 2 REPUBLICAN Governors AND the 2 CURRENT Senators (Republicans) from here... although maybe not that last thing... sorta... but bigger govt - yep, more taxes (definitely) less freedom... yup, and not so much the last thing... that's just reserved for POLITICIAN types ;)

I think Ohio is great, but some of the people (like everywhere else) are pretty messed up.
In the middle of a Presidential election, the Democrats of Ohio just named Jerry Springer the Ohio Democrat of the year.  That is funny!  A guy that features transexual tranvestites from Transylvania on his show is the Ohio Democrat of the year.  Not John Kerry, not some other politician, but Jerry Springer.  Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha!!!!!!!!!!!!!

p.s.  Go Pink Pistols!! I love ya!

Quoted: Quoted: you're in a battle ground state. it is your duty as an American to vote for President Bush. otherwise, YOU deserve everything comrade kerry would give you. I will gladly accept whatever Kerry brings,  the important thing is that I do not compromise on an issue that is dear to me.      If I have learned anything with the Republicans controlling the legislative and executive branch is that there is not much difference between them and the Demoncrats. you're hopeless and not even worth my time.

That's the Dems newest trick.  Try to say there is no difference between the two in order to discourage Repubs in order to bolster their own ranks with those discouraged Repubs.

Quoted: There are more pro-gun Democrats and even pro gun liberals than you might imagine. There are lots of pro gun Dems at the local and state levels, and a few in the house. I am a democrat, I describe myself as a moderate politically, and a little liberal on a few things. Guns are a make or break issue for me though so no way will I vote for Kerry. I am disgusted with the national party - they have lost their minds. They have nothing to offer, they are too busy engaging in an orgy of Dubya hating. I engage in gun debates with other democrats on other boards. I'm not interested in political debates on non-gun issues on this forum though.

Really.  Then how did the AWB make it through the Demonrat controlled Congress back in '93?

Quoted: Quoted: "Mist" ... is that german? Hier stinkt etwas.....

yep

Welcome aboard.  There's a wealth of information on this site.  If you're going to hang out in the General Discussion forum and engage in political discussion, I'd advise growing thick skin and following the CoC, but you're CERTAINLY "allowed" here.  We really, really tolerate a lot before the staff choose to exclude someone.

If you're not really that interested in political discussion, and just here to talk about guns - nobody will give a fart in a hurricane about your political beliefs.

Quoted: Quoted: Are you going to vote for Bush? FWIW I will not be voting for Bush this election. I was ready to gotto war FOR the man during the last election debacle.  Unfortunately his stance on illegal immigration has turned me off so bad I cannot even describe how mad I am about it. YES........ I understand the implications of future SCOTUS nominees,  district judgeships,  possible new gun control under Kerry etc, etc....... I just don't care,  I will NOT have my vote taken for granted. Let the flames begin....... Pres. Bush has only made legal certain types of immigration. Basically he has relieved some of the problems of the INS and the department of Homeland Security. He made it so people who try to escape poverty and want to work can. I can't believe that you would change your vote like that. Imagine if your ancestors had been denied entrance into the US because they looked for a better life and were willing to work for it.

<Slur removed.  If you value your time on this site, please become familiar with--and abide by--the Conduct Code.>

I'm confused. bush would sign an AWB, is it just him or do all republicans want to bend us over too?

Quick someone explain what he "ment" by what he "said".







Vote for me, the "only solution".

Come enjoy the site, but you are on the wrong side of the political spectrum for
someone who is really interested in keeping guns. Hows that for a welcome?


GM

These so-called democrats are just living the last gasping breaths of the party of JFK now transformed into the socialist party of Amerika. Its dead guys. Move on. The current Republican party is your old party and the Libertarians/Constitutionists are now the old super conservatives.

Firearm ownership for the purpose the founders intended ie. a check on the Federal Government and for immediate defense of a citizen's person, family and state is entirely incompatible with the soul of the current Democrat party. You are living a lie. Planerench out.

Here is my favorate Democrat with his AR:

Quoted: Yes, Democrat gun owners are allowed here. They even share a special forum with the "Jews For Hitler"

Is that the place next to GAY NAZIS ?  

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I'm not sure I'm voting for Bush either.   I'll know in 11 days. +1 No sunset, no vote for Bush. He's said he'll sign it if it comes across his desk.......  I don't like that, FWIW, even though I know it's just petty politics, rhetoric, etc - a way to appear moderate w/out actually doing anything about that. All else I've got left to say about that is: "It'd damn sure better not cross his desk." Now, the fact* that he's said he "wants to sign it"...............  Me no likey that one bit - petty politics or not. Still, I know how Kerry feels and will use my vote to "Bushwack" his sorry no-good ass. I also no likey the immigration stance by Bush (illegal OR legal), but I refer you back up to the beginning of my post........ Have a nice day! [ * I've heard libs toss this around left and right, but still haven't seen it w/ my own eyes - if anyone's got a citation, I'm all ears - er, eyes. This was stated by a gun control advocate.  He seems to have a better grasp of reality than some of you. "If George W. Bush truly wants an assault weapons ban, as he has led the public to believe, then he should aggressively fight for it, as he had done with other issues of importance to him," said Joshua Horwitz, executive director of the Coalition to Stop Violence, a group fighting for renewal of the ban. Gee, if this moron seems to get it, why don't some of the Bush bashers on this board seem to understand it? Personally, I don't see how a gun owner can remain a dem unless they believe the "sporting purpose" bullshit espoused by the likes of Kerry and don't care about EBR owners.  They don't realize that their "sniper" rifles (any rifle with a scope) would be next.

Thanks for clearing that up for me, LARRYG.  I work in a veritable whorehouse for democraps and I've heard it parroted enough to imprint onto my brain.  None of them had been able to cite it, though.  I'm sure they heard it on NPR or something....

Quoted: I'm confused. bush would sign an AWB, is it just him or do all republicans want to bend us over too? Quick someone explain what he "ment" by what he "said". Vote for me, the "only solution".

One more time since it doesn't seem to sink in, or someone doesn't want to listen to facts:

"If George W. Bush truly wants an assault weapons ban, as he has led the public to believe, then he should aggressively fight for it, as he had done with other issues of importance to him," said Joshua Horwitz, executive director of the Coalition to Stop Violence, a group fighting for renewal of the ban.

Gee, if this moron seems to get it, why don't some of the Bush bashers on this board seem to understand it?  He never had any intention of signing it, he has made sure his leaders in Congress have kept it dead.  He had to appease the soccer moms, either that or we would have had Gore.

Think about it.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: "Mist" ... is that german? Hier stinkt etwas..... yep

benutzen Sie ein hankerchief

Really. Then how did the AWB make it through the Demonrat controlled Congress back in '93?

I repeat myself, but ...

There are lots of pro gun Dems at the local and state levels, and a few in the house.

Most of the pro gun dems these days are at the local and state levels. That's how.

Quoted: Just asking  ?  I thought this was a gun board, and after looking around and reading some  I feel the need to ask.

All gun owners and friends of gun rights are welcome.

This, however, presents a problem:

You can't support gun rights and vote for Kerry, or Clinton, or Schumer, etc. These people want to take away the 2nd ammendment rights of Americans, in addition to all their other problems and shortcomings.

Quoted: These so-called democrats are just living the last gasping breaths of the party of JFK now transformed into the socialist party of Amerika. Its dead guys. Move on. The current Republican party is your old party and the Libertarians/Constitutionists are now the old super conservatives. Firearm ownership for the purpose the founders intended ie. a check on the Federal Government and for immediate defense of a citizen's person, family and state is entirely incompatible with the soul of the current Democrat party. You are living a lie. Planerench out.

+1.  What he said.

Quoted: I think Ohio is great, but some of the people (like everywhere else) are pretty messed up. In the middle of a Presidential election, the Democrats of Ohio just named Jerry Springer the Ohio Democrat of the year.  That is funny!  A guy that features transexual tranvestites from Transylvania on his show is the Ohio Democrat of the year.  Not John Kerry, not some other politician, but Jerry Springer.  Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha!!!!!!!!!!!!! p.s.  Go Pink Pistols!! I love ya!

Hey, I heard THAT! SOMETIMES I find it a tad embarassing to be an Ohioan... but cannot imagine living elsewhere ;)

And thanks for the P/S/ ;)

And I don't hold what Bush said about the AWB against him... EXACTLY.... but it DOES make me a wee tad "nervous"... what I hold against Bush is more his "general" attitude (some of which I like) but the parts like what "pushed" for the alleged "Patriot Act" and the Constitutional Amendment BS, his "catering" to the "Religious Radical Rigt" like that.... it's not that I don't think he's done "the right thing" he has in several cases... just not NECESSARIALLY for the right motives... not always... but hey, he's human, he's allowed ;) Still NEITHER he nor Kerry are likely to earn my vote in the next 2 months.... MAYBE, but I doubt it....

you're not off to a good start

If the "Patriot Act" makes you nervous with Bush in charge, shouldn't the thought of the "Patriot Act" with Kerry in charge make you run screaming into the sea?

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Well, speaking as a Democrat with a pathologically high post count... I'm curious, have you participated at Democratic Underground? No. I do look around over there a bit, and those people are just plain nuts. 100% emotional, 100% irrational, rabidly partisan to the degree that ridicule and belittle absolutely anything any noncommunist does. If Karl Rove came up with a cure for AIDS, they'd urge people not to use. Even if they didn't lock everything that deviates from the Little Red Book, arguing over there would be entirely pointless.

Thanks for responding.  Your view of them is consistent with mine.

Quoted: Quoted:      If I have learned anything with the Republicans controlling the legislative and executive branch is that there is not much difference between them and the Demoncrats. That's the Dems newest trick.  Try to say there is no difference between the two in order to discourage Repubs in order to bolster their own ranks with those discouraged Repubs.

If you're trying to call Biggame a Democrat, well, that's the funniest thing I've hear all year!  

Sorry, but I am also not likely to vote for Bush, even though I dislike Kerry even more. Why? Because I want gridlock back in Congress.

Hell, I'd go one further....if I had the money, I'd offer up a nation-wide initiative that would pay each Congressperson $5 million per year, tax free.  But they COULD NOT do shit while there. No laws passed (we already know none will ever be repealed)..they could only sit and play Pac Man or surf the net or do their nails, or...anything else but try an run (and ruin) our fucking lives.

Gridlock is our friend.

Vote Gridlock in November.

I am a pro-gun advocate and am a registered Democrat who voted for Clinton - both times and would have voted for him a third time if it were possible. I see nothing in conflict with my point of view. This is the biggest reason I am a Democrat. Freedom of speech and to be able to express my point of view wherever I want to. Freedom of speech is something that the Republican party fears the most. It has been my experience that they want to control the flow of information especialy when it comes into conflict with thier ideas and propoganda. Just my opinion which every True Blue American is entitled to!

Quoted: Just asking  ?  I thought this was a gun board, and after looking around and reading some  I feel the need to ask.

Opening with that sadass Loony Liberal Left bullshit of "just askin'" - probably not.

It has been my experience that they want to control the flow of information especialy when it comes into conflict with thier ideas and propoganda.

If you don't Vote you don't get to Bitch. So STFU till you do.

Hmmm..........

If you are worried about your freedom of speech and the rest of the freedoms protected by the Bill of Rights, I don't really understand how you can cast any vote for the party of Ted Kennedy and Michael Moore. Those are two people who truly hate this nation that our forefathers fought and died to create. I will not and cannot stand beside you on the firing line just because you own a .38 and 10/22. The preservation of liberty and principals should be the driving force behind our votes, not party lines. And yes, in an ideal world, we would not be forced to choose between the "lesser of two evils" but the political system we have boils it down to that. Do I agree with all that GWB says and does, no. But his ideals, morals, values and opinion of the direction this country needs to head are very close to my own. A vote for any other candidate in this race is a vote against America and all that we have struggled to gain and all that we aspire to become.

..edited because I am a grammar nazi

See mist, this is how it works. Being a Democrat is fine - we won't ban you for it or anything, like DemocratUnderground does to Republicans. But if you post on controversial subjects here in GD, be prepared to defend your views. Of course, there's lots of room on the gun boards to talk gun stuff without getting into politics.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted:      If I have learned anything with the Republicans controlling the legislative and executive branch is that there is not much difference between them and the Demoncrats. That's the Dems newest trick.  Try to say there is no difference between the two in order to discourage Repubs in order to bolster their own ranks with those discouraged Repubs. If you're trying to call Biggame a Democrat, well, that's the funniest thing I've hear all year!   Sorry, but I am also not likely to vote for Bush, even though I dislike Kerry even more. Why? Because I want gridlock back in Congress. Hell, I'd go one further....if I had the money, I'd offer up a nation-wide initiative that would pay each Congressperson $5 million per year, tax free.  But they COULD NOT do shit while there. No laws passed (we already know none will ever be repealed)..they could only sit and play Pac Man or surf the net or do their nails, or...anything else but try an run (and ruin) our fucking lives. Gridlock is our friend. Vote Gridlock in November.

Did gridlock stop terrorists from attacking this country again and again for the last 20 years? Has gridlock done anything to slow down illegal immigration?

The reason why gridlock sucks is that with it, the very best you can hope for is that nothing will happen, and nothing will change. That's not good enough for me. I want to hit the terrorists where they live. I want to start getting our gun rights back. I want to cut taxes even more and reduce the size of government. Gridlock will never do any of these things, or any of the things that you want to do.

The way to actually get things done is incrementalism. Move things in our direction a little bit at a time, step by step. That's what the Liberals have been doing to get us where we are today. But that doesn't make it bad - they're doing it because it works. If we want to change things for the better, we have to make incrementalism work for us. In order to do that, you have to vote for the guy that's closest to your ideology, even if you don't agree with him on a couple of issues.

If you're concerned about illegal immigration or gun rights, for example, that's George W. Bush and the Republican Party. Even if Bush himself isn't strong on those issues, they are still part of the Republican ideology. If you allow John F Kerry to become our next president, at best nothing at all will happen, but at worst, you will advance the Liberal Democrat agenda, which supports Socialism, strict gun control, and open borders. That's not the way to win or advance your issues.

Voting for "the lesser of two evils" is part of this. Remember that no two people have exactly the same views on every subject. Therefore, if you ever find a candidate for office whom you agree totally on, then you should lock yourself into a padded room because you have most likely been the victim of some sort of brainwashing procedure. The very idea of voting for someone whom you agree totally with is something that can never, ever happen in any nation that even pretends to be free - such things can only happen in a totalitarian dictatorship where any dissent whatsoever will earn you a bullet to the head. Of course I don't agree with Bush on every issue and every decision - you'd have to be a mindless drone to do so. But I am voting for him in November because the ideology he represents is much closer to mine then that of Kerry (infact, figuring out exactly what Kerry does believe in is rather difficult, but that's a subject for another thread).

So, in summary, when you go to the voting booth, thank God that you "have" to vote for "the lesser of two evils".