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Link Posted: 7/1/2015 8:49:38 AM EDT
The white runs, the yellow stays!
Link Posted: 7/1/2015 8:53:37 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By VBC:


NJ actually gets some decent waves and has a surfing scene.
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Originally Posted By VBC:
Originally Posted By Bigger_Hammer:
Originally Posted By socommatthews:
Definitely no Red Dawn. Maybe that's where my expectations were and why I was so let down. I did like where they took the beach just to surf



What they fuck do you know about surfing Major?  You're from fucking New Jersey!"


NJ actually gets some decent waves and has a surfing scene.


The Col. doesn't think so!   6 foot Peaks!!



Link Posted: 7/1/2015 8:54:50 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/1/2015 9:23:10 AM EDT by TXHogsniper]
"...Big Duke Six, roger. Dove One-Three, stand by.  You got about about 30 seconds to get your people back.  This is going to be a big one."


"Blow it to stone-age, son."
Link Posted: 7/1/2015 9:02:05 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/1/2015 9:02:56 AM EDT by SirSqueeboo]
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Originally Posted By broadrunarms:
Those who don't get the plantation scene appear to know nothing about the French involvement in Indochina.

The message in that section was "France abandoned her soldiers who fought here against the communists. America will do the same."

And we did.

Both versions are excellent, but tell very different stories.

And go read "Heart of Darkness" and write an 11 page analysis of why that story iscawesome.
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I understood it just fine, at least for me was so drawn out that it hindered the momentum of the film.
Link Posted: 7/1/2015 9:07:47 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By TXHogsniper:
The redux version sucked.  Miss Playboy centerfold fucking the boat crew, Martin Sheen's side trip to some rubber plantation where the host sitting at the table erupts into some cheesy, volatile, hot tempered European in an Italian movie, the tryst with the plantation bell pretty much overloaded my WTF capacitors and I turned it off.  
It became a boring movie in an otherwise good movie.  Sheen should never gotten off the boat.
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I never saw the Redux one, I guess I didn't miss anything.

The original is long but amazing.
Link Posted: 7/1/2015 9:09:51 AM EDT
Originally Posted By socommatthews:
Do I need to be tripping to know what the hell is going on? The damn movie just dragged and dragged and dragged, seemed like it took 6 hours to watch. Hell even Martin Sheen looked more bored than me. Am I missing something or is it just another mediocre movie?
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The machinist, the one they called Chef, was from New Orleans. He was wrapped too tight for Vietnam; probably wrapped too tight for New Orleans. Lance, on the forward .50s, was a famous surfer from the beaches south of LA. One look at him and you wouldn't believe he ever fired a weapon in his whole life. Clean... Mr. Clean... was from some South Bronx shithole and the light and space of Vietnam really put the zap on his head. Then there was Phillips, the Chief. It might have been my mission, but it sure as shit was the Chief's boat!
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Link Posted: 7/1/2015 9:15:33 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/1/2015 9:16:15 AM EDT by TXHogsniper]
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Originally Posted By SirSqueeboo:


I understood it just fine, at least for me was so drawn out that it hindered the momentum of the film.
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Originally Posted By SirSqueeboo:
Originally Posted By broadrunarms:
Those who don't get the plantation scene appear to know nothing about the French involvement in Indochina.

The message in that section was "France abandoned her soldiers who fought here against the communists. America will do the same."

And we did.

Both versions are excellent, but tell very different stories.

And go read "Heart of Darkness" and write an 11 page analysis of why that story iscawesome.


I understood it just fine, at least for me was so drawn out that it hindered the momentum of the film.


I read Heart of Darkness, years ago, and know it's relation to the movie.  The French involvement in Indochina, their baling out and the U.S. possibly doing the same was not what the movie was about.  The boat crew should have never gotten off the river or 'their mission.'
Link Posted: 7/1/2015 9:15:47 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By proud2deviate:
Saigon. . .  shit; I'm still only in Saigon.
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What are they going to say about him? What? Are they going to say he was a kind man? He was a wise man? He had plans? He had wisdom? Bullshit, man!
Link Posted: 7/1/2015 9:16:37 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/1/2015 9:28:07 AM EDT by blakesnake]
"oh you think you bad huh!!" "i got something fo yo ass, you think you something bad huh!!!"
 
Link Posted: 7/1/2015 9:17:39 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By Balista:



What are they going to say about him? What? Are they going to say he was a kind man? He was a wise man? He had plans? He had wisdom? Bullshit, man!
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Originally Posted By Balista:
Originally Posted By proud2deviate:
Saigon. . .  shit; I'm still only in Saigon.



What are they going to say about him? What? Are they going to say he was a kind man? He was a wise man? He had plans? He had wisdom? Bullshit, man!


"...I'm nothing but a pair of ragged claws, scuttling across the floor of some silent sea."
Link Posted: 7/1/2015 9:41:38 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/1/2015 9:42:02 AM EDT by dion556]


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Originally Posted By blakesnake:



"oh you think you bad huh!!" "i got something fo yo ass, you think you something bad huh!!!"  
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"I'm sorry sir, but there are gooks on the wire, I think I killed 'em all though"

 










"Nah, stupid, they still one alive underneath them bodies!"


 
Link Posted: 7/1/2015 9:48:07 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By SirSqueeboo:

I could do without the plantation scene, but Redux did add some scenes that benefited the film.
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I don't know, I thought the plantation scene provided some context, relating the war to the way it had been 20 years before.
Link Posted: 7/1/2015 9:52:43 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By ThePatriot556:



Yep, Redux was fantastic.
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Originally Posted By ThePatriot556:
Originally Posted By SirSqueeboo:


Are you 17 with ADHD?



Yep, Redux was fantastic.



Agreed

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Link Posted: 7/1/2015 10:16:33 AM EDT
A fuckin tiger, man!
Link Posted: 7/1/2015 10:49:46 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/1/2015 10:50:44 AM EDT by Ironhandjohn]
Gonna fly that right skid right up her ass...




It was a good board and I liked it. Do you know how hard it is to find a good board?
Link Posted: 7/1/2015 10:52:58 AM EDT
I'm not sure we can be friends, OP.
Link Posted: 7/1/2015 11:00:27 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By dion556:
"I'm sorry sir, but there are gooks on the wire, I think I killed 'em all though"  



"Nah, stupid, they still one alive underneath them bodies!"
 
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Originally Posted By dion556:
Originally Posted By blakesnake:
"oh you think you bad huh!!" "i got something fo yo ass, you think you something bad huh!!!"  
"I'm sorry sir, but there are gooks on the wire, I think I killed 'em all though"  



"Nah, stupid, they still one alive underneath them bodies!"
 

Go get the roach
Link Posted: 7/1/2015 11:00:29 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By BikerNut:
Liked the original.

Redux sux.

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Yup.


OP is right.  All the added scenes destroyed the pace of the original, which is already a long movie the at times rides the edge of bogging down.  Most of the added stuff is "message" crap or just bizarre.

When I got a Blu-Ray and a high end TV I specifically sought out the original.
Link Posted: 7/1/2015 11:05:59 AM EDT
"Who's in charge here?"

"Ain't you?!"
Link Posted: 7/1/2015 11:06:13 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By zackmars:
Its not a Vietnam war movie, it's a movie about insanity that just happens to be set in Vietnam
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I think even more about insanity, it's a movie about dissociation...."splitting with the whole fucking program", if you will.  Not so much losing touch with reality as telling reality to go piss up a rope.  Redux (while admittedly getting a little laggy at times) conveys this better than the original theater cut.
Link Posted: 7/1/2015 11:10:29 AM EDT
Well shit guess I'm the only one who likes Redux better.
Link Posted: 7/1/2015 11:18:24 AM EDT
The original theatrical release is a much better film IMHO.   Redux is full of unnecessary footage that belonged on the cutting room floor.
Link Posted: 7/1/2015 11:30:35 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By TXHogsniper:
The redux version sucked.  Miss Playboy centerfold fucking the boat crew, Martin Sheen's side trip to some rubber plantation where the host sitting at the table erupts into some cheesy, volatile, hot tempered European in an Italian movie, the tryst with the plantation bell pretty much overloaded my WTF capacitors and I turned it off.  
It became a boring movie in an otherwise good movie.  Sheen should never gotten off the boat.
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Yeah, but the plantation scene gave very good insight on some of the causes of the war in Indochina and the reasons why the French were there...I liked that scene, a lot! Marty banging the plantation owners wife...ehh, but I guess he was so busy hatin' VC and killing them, she needed some stick time....

The Playboy girls was kind of an odd twist, but then again, it kind of fit in with the fucked up nature of the movie. Don't forget, the basic story is a travel into darkness and madness, the further they go up the river, the more fucked up it gets...the Do Lung bridge is way fucked up...the original book, as I am sure you know, takes place in the 1800's in Africa, but same basic premise.

I think the orginal was a masterpiece, and Redux while maybe a little long to call a masterpiece, it really fleshed some things out, and was very good in its own way....
Link Posted: 7/1/2015 11:33:08 AM EDT
Plantation scene was OK, but the Bunnies scene was just dumb.



The original is one of the best films ever made. Redux is great if you're a fan of the film and are curious about what other stuff was shot, but it doesn't add anything.
Link Posted: 7/1/2015 11:33:33 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By Coltman77:
The original theatrical release is a much better film IMHO.   Redux is full of unnecessary footage that belonged on the cutting room floor.
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If you're only going to watch one, I absolutely agree.  Once you're familiar with the movie though (I'd probably watched it at least 7-8 times before I saw Redux), Redux brings some extra character development and thematic stuff that really adds to the coolness, IMHO.
Link Posted: 7/1/2015 11:40:28 AM EDT
Theater release was a better movie.  Redux scenes were still brilliant, including the plantation scene, but they needed to be in a whole other movie.
Link Posted: 7/1/2015 11:47:00 AM EDT
film for the masses vs art

When it comes to a book or film I really like,  I always enjoy extra pages or footage.

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Link Posted: 7/1/2015 11:49:45 AM EDT
the roach

Link Posted: 7/1/2015 11:50:31 AM EDT
Originally Posted By socommatthews:
Do I need to be tripping to know what the hell is going on? The damn movie just dragged and dragged and dragged, seemed like it took 6 hours to watch. Hell even Martin Sheen looked more bored than me. Am I missing something or is it just another mediocre movie?
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Huh, no different than the original.

Terrible movie that has aggressive hardcore fanbois to defend it.
Link Posted: 7/1/2015 11:59:30 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By Clarinath:


Huh, no different than the original.

Terrible movie that has aggressive hardcore fanbois to defend it.
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Originally Posted By Clarinath:
Originally Posted By socommatthews:
Do I need to be tripping to know what the hell is going on? The damn movie just dragged and dragged and dragged, seemed like it took 6 hours to watch. Hell even Martin Sheen looked more bored than me. Am I missing something or is it just another mediocre movie?


Huh, no different than the original.

Terrible movie that has aggressive hardcore fanbois to defend it.


Philistines.

Isn't there a Rob Schneider Film Appreciation Society meeting you two are missing somewhere?


Link Posted: 7/1/2015 12:07:05 PM EDT
I loved redux. The French plantation scene is great
Link Posted: 7/1/2015 12:13:05 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/1/2015 12:33:04 PM EDT by MikeE23666]
There are reasons the scenes in Redux are important to developing not only the story but an alternative way to fight the war.

If you recall a line where Martin Sheen's character says "a bunch of rock and rollers with one foot in the grave" then take lines like that and with it the scenes such as Do lung and bridge and USO/Playboy, Kurtz reading the Time Magazine article, it illustrates that we didn't need to bring huge force of draftees over to fight the war.

The scene where Willard is getting briefed by Harrison Ford, the General and (presumed CIA) agent tells Willard that Kurtz was operating out there with "no restraint" when in reality he was killing VC wholesale and winning. Willard was being sent out to kill the guy who was really getting things done but because of rules and bullshit red tape, Kurtz was acting "without restraint" and "playing God".

It suggests (as Kurtz did) a small group of Special Forces with indigenous troops could have fought the VC and the huge losses we took in terms of casualties could have been avoided. It also suggest war is hell and if you fight it with a lot of rules, you will loose.

The Redux scene at the plantation, you hear the French telling Americans that the they are basically spinning their wheels and getting no where in a war they cannot win.

The Redux scene at the basecamp (with the bunnies) and the Do Lung bridge scene suggests that the troops felt abandoned and not under good leadership ("who is your CO?".."aint you?")

Meanwhile, Kurtz was clearing his sector of VC.

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Link Posted: 7/1/2015 12:19:19 PM EDT
If I had ten divisions of those men our troubles here would be over very quickly.
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Link Posted: 7/1/2015 12:24:59 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By TXHogsniper:
 The French involvement in Indochina, their baling out and the U.S. possibly doing the same was not what the movie was about.  The boat crew should have never gotten off the river or 'their mission.'
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I wasn't clear, I guess.  

My comment above about the French and US treatment of the soldiers who fought in Indochina ("The message in that section...") applied just to the plantation scene.  

But that one section changes the movie quite a lot.

The theatrical release it is a movie about how fucked up the US involvement became ("The bullshit piled up so fast you needed wings to stay above it.").

With the plantation section, it becomes more about how the war affected the brave men who fought there, and how the American and French governments failed in their responsibilities to those men because it was politically expedient to do so.

Link Posted: 7/1/2015 12:25:12 PM EDT
Kurtz: I've seen horrors... horrors that you've seen. But you have no right to call me a murderer. You have a right to kill me. You have a right to do that... but you have no right to judge me. It's impossible for words to describe what is necessary to those who do not know what horror means. Horror... Horror has a face... and you must make a friend of horror. Horror and moral terror are your friends. If they are not, then they are enemies to be feared. They are truly enemies!


Michael Herr was Esquire Magazine's war correspondent who eventually compiled his articles into Dispatches, an excellent book, well worth reading.

Herr wrote much of the film in addition to Cpt. Willard's narration.
Link Posted: 7/1/2015 12:31:06 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Coltman77:
Kurtz: I've seen horrors... horrors that you've seen. But you have no right to call me a murderer. You have a right to kill me. You have a right to do that... but you have no right to judge me. It's impossible for words to describe what is necessary to those who do not know what horror means. Horror... Horror has a face... and you must make a friend of horror. Horror and moral terror are your friends. If they are not, then they are enemies to be feared. They are truly enemies!


Michael Herr was Esquire Magazine's war correspondent who eventually compiled his articles into Dispatches, an excellent book, well worth reading.

Herr wrote much of the film in addition to Cpt. Willard's narration.
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He also helped adapt Gus Hasfords "The Short Timers"  to the big screen in "Full Metal Jacket".

There's lots of "Dispatches" in both movies.
Link Posted: 7/1/2015 12:32:55 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By bmick325:



He also helped adapt Gus Hasfords "The Short Timers"  to the big screen in "Full Metal Jacket".

There's lots of "Dispatches" in both movies.
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Originally Posted By bmick325:
Originally Posted By Coltman77:
Kurtz: I've seen horrors... horrors that you've seen. But you have no right to call me a murderer. You have a right to kill me. You have a right to do that... but you have no right to judge me. It's impossible for words to describe what is necessary to those who do not know what horror means. Horror... Horror has a face... and you must make a friend of horror. Horror and moral terror are your friends. If they are not, then they are enemies to be feared. They are truly enemies!


Michael Herr was Esquire Magazine's war correspondent who eventually compiled his articles into Dispatches, an excellent book, well worth reading.

Herr wrote much of the film in addition to Cpt. Willard's narration.



He also helped adapt Gus Hasfords "The Short Timers"  to the big screen in "Full Metal Jacket".

There's lots of "Dispatches" in both movies.



I didn't know that, thanks for the info.  
Link Posted: 7/1/2015 12:36:32 PM EDT
Kurtz's charachter was supposedly based on Col. Bob Rheault, but did anyone else see a little bit of Tony Poe in the character?
Link Posted: 7/1/2015 12:42:32 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By bmick325:
Kurtz's charachter was supposedly based on Col. Bob Rheault, but did anyone else see a little bit of Tony Poe in the character?
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Wow

Never heard of this before.

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Link Posted: 7/1/2015 12:49:58 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Clarinath:


Huh, no different than the original.

Terrible movie that has aggressive hardcore fanbois to defend it.
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Originally Posted By Clarinath:
Originally Posted By socommatthews:
Do I need to be tripping to know what the hell is going on? The damn movie just dragged and dragged and dragged, seemed like it took 6 hours to watch. Hell even Martin Sheen looked more bored than me. Am I missing something or is it just another mediocre movie?


Huh, no different than the original.

Terrible movie that has aggressive hardcore fanbois to defend it.


I think there'll be a revival of "The Sisterhood of the Traveling Pants" coming to a theater near you, may be more you're style.
Link Posted: 7/1/2015 12:55:45 PM EDT
I liked both versions.
Link Posted: 7/1/2015 12:58:15 PM EDT
It's just a fuckin' puppy man!
Link Posted: 7/1/2015 1:02:56 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By DeltaElite777:


Philistines.

Isn't there a Rob Schneider Film Appreciation Society meeting you two are missing somewhere?


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Originally Posted By DeltaElite777:
Originally Posted By Clarinath:
Originally Posted By socommatthews:
Do I need to be tripping to know what the hell is going on? The damn movie just dragged and dragged and dragged, seemed like it took 6 hours to watch. Hell even Martin Sheen looked more bored than me. Am I missing something or is it just another mediocre movie?


Huh, no different than the original.

Terrible movie that has aggressive hardcore fanbois to defend it.


Philistines.

Isn't there a Rob Schneider Film Appreciation Society meeting you two are missing somewhere?




They're watching, and debating the finer points of Deuce Bigalow: European Gigolo
Link Posted: 7/1/2015 1:39:27 PM EDT
The theatrical version of Apocalypse Now is a movie about a guy sent to kill a rogue Colonel. The guy occasionally makes observations about the meaning of civilization.

The Redux version is a movie about the meaning of civilization.
Link Posted: 7/1/2015 3:50:27 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By broadrunarms:
Those who don't get the plantation scene appear to know nothing about the French involvement in Indochina.

The message in that section was "France abandoned her soldiers who fought here against the communists. America will do the same."

And we did.

Both versions are excellent, but tell very different stories.

And go read "Heart of Darkness" and write an 11 page analysis of why that story iscawesome.
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It was also an interesting commentary on the situation settlers were finding themselves in all of these newly independent, often socialist countries as a result of decolonization.  That same conversation could have played out in many African countries.

I really liked the scene.  I think the unexpected presence of both Frenchmen and some sort of Western civilization in general along the river that far in could be seen as jarring in its own way, one more surreal stop along the journey into the heart of darkness, and it's that journey that the movie is all about.

Link Posted: 7/1/2015 3:53:23 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Coltman77:
The original theatrical release is a much better film IMHO.   Redux is full of unnecessary footage that belonged on the cutting room floor.
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I'm of the opposite opinion.  Now if anyone wants something that really drags, apparently people have put together a sort of uncut version of the film, which is over 5 hours long.
Link Posted: 7/1/2015 3:56:02 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By juan223:
film for the masses vs art

When it comes to a book or film I really like,  I always enjoy extra pages or footage.

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Same here.  I watched Redux first.  I really enjoyed it and it's one of my favourite films.  I enjoyed it even more on the second viewing.  I tried watching the original release, but it just didn't feel right, so I stopped watching it.  Redux is a good film in part because it is a good representation of the film as art.
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