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Posted: 1/29/2006 9:43:12 AM EDT
[#1]
Ah, the drama. |
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Posted: 1/29/2006 9:44:02 AM EDT
[#2]
Why didn't you just go in your house and close the door?
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Posted: 1/29/2006 9:45:32 AM EDT
[#3]
You are now SCREWED! Police don't know anything about restraining orders. Call your local D.A.'s office. Take it from me...don't hunker down, you'll mess up your own mind. If you can carry openly on your own property. do it. Carry at ALL times and don't be affraid of his verbal assaults. He knows that you can pop him if he is alone. |
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Posted: 1/29/2006 9:47:08 AM EDT
[#4]
+1,000,000 |
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Posted: 1/29/2006 9:48:46 AM EDT
[#5]
Not all State laws are screwed up like R.I. Thank GOD for TEXAS |
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Posted: 1/29/2006 9:49:20 AM EDT
[#6]
That is something that I have kicked myself in the ass for a couple of times but my mind kind of went on the fritz the only thing that I could think of was fear. He is a pretty big guy, and he was yelling that he was going to kill me. I didn't know what in the hell was going on but I was honestly afraid of being seriously fucked up, or killed, and then I reverted to my training stop the threat with as liitle force as possible. I was afraid for my life and I stopped the threat. In my mind it was not decision making time it was revert to your training and survive time. I did what came natural. |
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Posted: 1/29/2006 9:50:22 AM EDT
[#7]
Ah, you may be in RI but its like you read it right out the TN CCW course especially the unconcious part. Sig, Well sounds like its settling down. He won't like your ass but at least he won't hold the breakup against you since he has a second chance to screwup which he will. Bide your time a little but still watch your back. If he attempts to descalate the situation allow him. No hard feelings BUTTTT you came this close kind of thing. Of course, there is hard feelings and I'd not trust the POS again and watch him like a hawk. Don't you escalate it whatever you do. On a personal note, the neighbor has made her bed. I'd now avoid her like the black plague. Tj |
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Posted: 1/29/2006 9:50:42 AM EDT
[#8]
I'm still trying to understand the possible brandishing charge that Sig may face. He says he has a carry permit for his weapon. So, the State of TN knows he has a gun and has issued him a permit to carry (and presumably to use) it.
An angry male is running towards him saying that he is going to kill him. The fact that Sig drew his weapon and didn't shoot the asshole seems like the perfect happy ending here, since no one was killed or injured and the asshole stopped his advance. You would think that the State of TN would be happy with the outcome. I guess I'm having trouble reconciling Sig's right to carry and use his weapon with the possible brandishing charge he could face for drawing his legal weapon but not shooting a perp. |
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Posted: 1/29/2006 9:56:29 AM EDT
[#9]
I agree with your thinking, and I think with a good attorney even if they do decide to charge me, there is no way in hell it would be a conviction. |
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Posted: 1/29/2006 9:59:09 AM EDT
[#10]
This is TN bud, I would be shocked if you were charged at all and most certainly if you don't cop they can't win here.
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Posted: 1/29/2006 10:00:23 AM EDT
[#11]
So, the moral of the story is without a gun you would have gotten your ass kicked.
Unless you are wicked old and can't protect yourself any other way THAN a gun,you should have just fought him. Now you have to look behind your back for a long ass time. |
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Posted: 1/29/2006 10:01:22 AM EDT
[#12]
So in Texas if an unarmed person says they are going to kill you you can smoke them based on their statements? We have a "castle doctrine" here in RI but it only applies to someone breaking in your house, not in your front yard. TITLE 11 Criminal Offenses CHAPTER 11-8 Burglary and Breaking and Entering SECTION 11-8-8 § 11-8-8 Injury or death – Defense. – In the event that any person shall die or shall sustain a personal injury in any way or for any cause while in the commission of any criminal offense enumerated in §§ 11-8-2 – 11-8-6 (11-8-2 -11-8-6 is breaking and entering and burgulary), it shall be rebuttably presumed as a matter of law in any civil or criminal proceeding that the owner, tenant, or occupier of the place where the offense was committed acted by reasonable means in self-defense and in the reasonable belief that the person engaged in the criminal offense was about to inflict great bodily harm or death upon that person or any other individual lawfully in the place where the criminal offense was committed. There shall be no duty on the part of an owner, tenant, or occupier to retreat from any person engaged in the commission of any criminal offense enumerated in §§ 11-8-2 – 11-8-6. |
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Posted: 1/29/2006 10:07:03 AM EDT
[#13]
Why in the hell would I want to fight with someone who had just threatened my life? I wasn't trying to be Billy Badass, if I was I would have pulled the trigger, and ended it right then and there. In my opinion a man who come running at you full force screaming I am going to kill you is not coming at you to fight, when someone says I am going to kill you that means they are playing for keeps. Below is the state law in Tennesse regarding self defense. Date updated: Aug 23, 2005 @ 8:29 pm 39-11-611. Self-defense. (a) A person is justified in threatening or using force against another person when and to the degree the person reasonably believes the force is immediately necessary to protect against the other's use or attempted use of unlawful force. The person must have a reasonable belief that there is an imminent danger of death or serious bodily injury. The danger creating the belief of imminent death or serious bodily injury must be real, or honestly believed to be real at the time, and must be founded upon reasonable grounds. There is no duty to retreat before a person threatens or uses force. (b) Any person using force intended or likely to cause death or serious bodily injury within the person's own residence is presumed to have held a reasonable fear of imminent peril of death or serious bodily injury to self, family or a member of the household when that force is used against another person, not a member of the family or household, who unlawfully and forcibly enters or has unlawfully and forcibly entered the residence, and the person using the force knew or had reason to believe that an unlawful and forcible entry occurred. |
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Posted: 1/29/2006 10:09:32 AM EDT
[#14]
Me too...  Actually... I'd probably just run away.. Or... S.N.I.V.I.L. www.handguncontrolinc.org/snivel.htm |
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Posted: 1/29/2006 10:12:35 AM EDT
[#15]
Yes sir. In my situation it was at night and on my own property and he charged at me. He was 6'4" and 280 lbs, me 6' and 190 lbs. I did not shoot even with him 4 inches from my face ranting and raving and I had my G-17 drawn hip high pointing at his stomach. I checked to make sure that he was on my property and that is was 11PM and I could pull the trigger knowing that is was justified. Even the cops and DET. said he was very lucky he wasn't killed. Stress the HE part. Under TEXAS law, I was justified in protecting myself, my wife and my property. |
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Posted: 1/29/2006 10:15:20 AM EDT
[#16]
The person must have a reasonable belief that there is an imminent danger of death or serious bodily injury. An unarmed man does not make your fears reasonable. The danger creating the belief of imminent death or serious bodily injury must be real, or honestly believed to be real at the time, and must be founded upon reasonable grounds. Where was the "real" belief you were about to die if you did not shoot him? You were afraid to get your ass kicked so you hid behind your gun. Maybe you should invest some of the "training" you spoke of relying on in some self defense classes. |
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Posted: 1/29/2006 10:16:06 AM EDT
[#17]
sorry if this was posted already - didnt read the whole thread.
www.packing.org/state/tennessee/#statedeadlyforce_law (a) A person is justified in threatening or using force against another person when and to the degree the person reasonably believes the force is immediately necessary to protect against the other's use or attempted use of unlawful force. The person must have a reasonable belief that there is an imminent danger of death or serious bodily injury. The danger creating the belief of imminent death or serious bodily injury must be real, or honestly believed to be real at the time, and must be founded upon reasonable grounds. There is no duty to retreat before a person threatens or uses force. (b) Any person using force intended or likely to cause death or serious bodily injury within the person's own residence is presumed to have held a reasonable fear of imminent peril of death or serious bodily injury to self, family or a member of the household when that force is used against another person, not a member of the family or household, who unlawfully and forcibly enters or has unlawfully and forcibly entered the residence, and the person using the force knew or had reason to believe that an unlawful and forcible entry occurred. Reads pretty clear to me  You were on your OWN PROPERTY. Tell the DA to KISS OFF! 
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Posted: 1/29/2006 10:20:09 AM EDT
[#18]
Sorry Justice, but don't get stuck on R.I. mentality. Other States hold personal rights to protect oneself much higher. Lets hear from some other fellow Texans. P.S. I left Taxachusetts in 1981 for Texas |
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Posted: 1/29/2006 10:20:13 AM EDT
[#19]
Well if you want to put that in practical application. The fact the guy said he'd kill him made his intent known.
Now had, the guy told police "I didn't do nuthin." and the girl said "I saw it all and he didn't say nuthin." Sig may have had a problem depending on the big three in order, cop on scene, DA, and jury. Any of the three could still drop the whole thing. This wasn't the case. Tj |
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Posted: 1/29/2006 10:20:21 AM EDT
[#20]
wow. Good job
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Posted: 1/29/2006 10:21:16 AM EDT
[#21]
Dude, you did about as good as anybody would. What you need now is some back up. Get a 4 legger. Boxer, German Shepard, Rottie, Dobie or something in the 25 to 45 lb class with a good bark. We have two scotties. Loud ass bark and pretty alert to whats happening around the house but totally unlikely to bite a neighborhood kid and get us sued.
Also get some outside security stuff so dipshit don't get no midnight commando ideas. rj |
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Posted: 1/29/2006 10:23:54 AM EDT
[#22]
WTF are you talkingabout? hid behind his gun? why should he have to take classes? I think he should have shot the fucker. I am about 5'6". Some "large" fellow charges me on my property saying he is going to kill me, he gets dead. |
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Posted: 1/29/2006 10:24:47 AM EDT
[#23]
And now we'll be stuck with stupid Chuck Norris comments for the next five pages |
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Posted: 1/29/2006 10:25:56 AM EDT
[#24]
+1,000,000 AND no charges against you will be filed. 
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Posted: 1/29/2006 10:28:15 AM EDT
[#25]
See, now, I think he shoulda just offed the scumbag. Yeah, who needs a gun when you have karate? God dammit, I hate karate guys. |
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Posted: 1/29/2006 10:29:28 AM EDT
[#26]
TJ luckily there was a third witness as well. That filled out an incident report that testified as well, the third witness said the exact same thing as both of us. The way I look at it, I have never ever talked to this girl outside of a public place, i.e. see her walking on the street to the store or something and saying Hi, or everyonce in a while seeing her at her work, they sell DVDs for $3.50 each so I go in there everyonce in a while. The cops that responded don't really want to push for a charge, so I am hoping that the DA will see things from their perspective, I will know on Monday. I feel like a prisoner in my own house right now I don't want to go outside or stir shit I don't want this fucker to see me outside and try again, I don't know if the guy had a weapon or not he may have but I was concentrating on the I will kill you aspect of what he was saying. I don't like fighting and I don't like violence. Once again seeing a big guy, running towards you yelling I am going to kill, you don't think you react.
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Posted: 1/29/2006 10:30:57 AM EDT
[#27]
Here's the Texas law, how is it any different? § 9.31. SELF-DEFENSE. (a) Except as provided in Subsection (b), a person is justified in using force against another when and to the degree he reasonably believes the force is immediately necessary to protect himself against the other's use or attempted use of unlawful force. (b) The use of force against another is not justified: (1) in response to verbal provocation alone I don't think you can smoke someone for "verbal provacation alone" anywhere, even in Texas. Someone breaking into your house is totally different than being on your front lawn where you can retreat. And not just retreat far enough to get to a gun. Force has to be immediately necessary to stop serious bodily injury or death. It's not imminent if you can escape. And "verbal provacation" does not justify it. Although I may have a "RI" mentality I have also lived in GA,LA, and AR. 
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Posted: 1/29/2006 10:34:22 AM EDT
[#28]
I would have done exactly the same thing, but I probably would have shot him. Here in FL the cops would have had no problem with it.
And justice23 you have been living in Libtard Land waayyyyy too long. |
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Posted: 1/29/2006 10:34:51 AM EDT
[#29]
You did good, IMO.
Keep your weapon on you...you NEVER know when you're going to need it. HH |
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Posted: 1/29/2006 10:35:18 AM EDT
[#30]
So, the boyfriend is moving back in. Right next door too. Get your paperwork in order and get a closed circuit system for indoors. Hope you don't experience any vandalism or break ins.
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Posted: 1/29/2006 10:35:47 AM EDT
[#31]
Hey Sig, just calm down. Remember, dead men tell no tales. I know what your going through. I was affraid charges were going to be filed against me and they weren't. When to the cops told you it sounded okay...then they'll write up the report that way and forward it to a det. who will call you within a week saying no charges are going to be filed. Hang tough and don't be scared. |
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Posted: 1/29/2006 10:36:33 AM EDT
[#32]
How do you know that he does not have a hidden knife or isn't hepped up on goofballs? Still, a can of pepper spray opens up a lot of non-lethal can o' whupass options. |
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Posted: 1/29/2006 10:37:50 AM EDT
[#33]
I think I would have shot him. That said, this would be a great use for pepper spray!
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Posted: 1/29/2006 10:39:03 AM EDT
[#34]
Verbal provacation alone? He was charging the guy on his property. In Texas, this allows me to shoot his ass. |
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Posted: 1/29/2006 10:40:09 AM EDT
[#35]
Well done.
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Posted: 1/29/2006 10:40:26 AM EDT
[#36]
You forgot the most important event..the scumbag made those threats while chargingat Sig. Retreat is complicated as in my situation I could not retreat before my perp was infront of my face. Threatening me. The only other witness was my wife. |
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Posted: 1/29/2006 10:43:06 AM EDT
[#37]
You don't so you can't rely on what if's. The threat has to be imminent not possibly. Hopped up on goofballs, making threats then kicking the shitout of you until you are almost unconcious would be a shoot situation. Not an angry man making verbal threats walking in your direction. Again I'm just arguing a point of law which is pretty universal. Wether in Texas, Florida, East Tennessee, or Rhode Island. Here's Florida law... 776.012 Use of force in defense of person.--A person is justified in using force, except deadly force, against another when and to the extent that the person reasonably believes that such conduct is necessary to defend himself or herself or another against the other's imminent use of unlawful force. However, a person is justified in the use of deadly force and does not have a duty to retreat if: (1) He or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony; or (2) Under those circumstances permitted pursuant to s. 776.013. History.--s. 13, ch. 74-383; s. 1188, ch. 97-102; s. 2, ch. 2005-27. They all read the same for the most part. Imminent death or serious bodily injury. If thats not there you can't draw down or shoot. You can have a good old fashioned fistfight. If things escalate during the fight you may be able to escalate. If the tweaker next door decided to ignore 228's pointing a gun at him and punched him in the face legally he could not have shot him Again for review, Don't pull it out unless you intend to put it away smoking. |
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Posted: 1/29/2006 10:46:48 AM EDT
[#38]
OK I'll play along.
So he is charging at him empty handed. Where is the "imminent threat of death"? It isn't there. If he was charging him with a baseball bat, rake , knife that would be imminent. 228 was in imminent fear of a fistfight, not being killed. |
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Posted: 1/29/2006 10:47:35 AM EDT
[#39]
Tennessee says I do not have a duty to retreat, he threatened to kill me and it was more than yelling this guy had a look on his face, that there was no thought process in his mind other than, causing serious bodily injury. He had no other intent than either kil |
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Posted: 1/29/2006 10:50:01 AM EDT
[#40]
You forgot that the perp is bigger than Sig. Bare hands and a death threat are REAL. Charging is the physical act of intending harm. |
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Posted: 1/29/2006 10:50:18 AM EDT
[#41]
Good job Sig.
Now you have more reason than ever to watch your six. Hope nothing more comes out of this. |
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Posted: 1/29/2006 10:50:36 AM EDT
[#42]
People are never killed in fistfights. Inconceivable! ETA: Or bar fights, for that matter. ETA2: This is not fucking highschool. You don't physically attack another adult and expect them not to shoot. That's retarded. But apparently since you know Jeet Kune Do that's all you need, and guns are for sissies. What a  .
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Posted: 1/29/2006 10:51:46 AM EDT
[#43]
Read the whole statute, not just the parts you want to apply. |
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Posted: 1/29/2006 10:51:50 AM EDT
[#44]
Charging, not walking, in your direction, threatening to kill you on your own property and advancing on an armed man. Are you gonnna let him grapple you for your gun? Considering the verbal threat and the rate he was closing the distance, I would say your obligation to correctly assess whether he was armed or not to be greatly lessened. Simply stating that you thought he was armed and was in fear of your life would have in strong proability been quite sufficient considering it was on your own property. Remember SIG had almost no time to asses the threat. This joker was running full-out, not leisurley loping toward him. How can you accuratly asses his mental and physical state? Considering the police said it would have been a good shoot and considering a reasonable man would consider someone refusing to stop, after repeated verbal warnings, advancing on an armed man to be a prima facia admission of a desire to disarm the defender and turn his weapon against him, I think SIG acted reasonably. Pepper Spray would have been a good option but still, he met his obligations. |
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Posted: 1/29/2006 10:55:50 AM EDT
[#45]
Pretty much. I love this stuff where guys will start quoting statutes and playing Internet Lawyer over shit like this. If you have a big guy with a criminal record that may or may not be on drugs charging you on your property saying he's going to kill you, you're not going to run inside and get the law books. You're going to get your gun. WTF is wrong with you guys? |
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Posted: 1/29/2006 10:58:06 AM EDT
[#46]
Not a troll, arguing a point of law. When death or serious bodily injury is imminent. Guns have their place in the use of force continium but just because you have one does not mean it should be your first response. I train in all aspects of self defense .
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Posted: 1/29/2006 10:58:43 AM EDT
[#47]
what about the idea of stepping just inside your doorway
then shoot the moment he crosses the threshhold (if he's dumb enough to go that far?) wouldn't you be on much better legal standing if the body was inside your house? |
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Posted: 1/29/2006 10:59:08 AM EDT
[#48]
I read the whole statue I fail to see how a Man charging at you threatning to kill you, is not immediate fear of death and at the very least how that would not perpetuate a fear, of extreme bodily injury. Why in the hell would I fight with a man who just indicated the fact that he had every intention of killing me? I did nothing to provoke his attack. |
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Posted: 1/29/2006 11:01:05 AM EDT
[#49]
You mean a 6'6" 300 lb guy can't cause you severe bodily injury or death especially while charging you and possibly take your weapon away from you and use it on you is not serious. Then there is something wrong with your assessment of the law. What did the cops say? |
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Posted: 1/29/2006 11:03:53 AM EDT
[#50]
Sig, I am glad you are ok and glad that you diffused the situation.
I think you will be hard pressed to have charges brought. I have seen a few times where people were in similar situations that when brought to the DA, they simply throw it out. Thay way you can't be charged in the future. If that is the case, this is the best thing that can happen here. Your ass will be legaly covered by that. I think them not confiscating your carry permit and/or weapon shows the direction this will go. I was not in your shoes so I can't say if you are 100% justified or not, but from what you say, it appears I would have reacted much the same as you did. Shooting someone should be the absolute last resort and you seem to understand that. You assessed the situation and reacted as you saw fit. Killing someone has some serious financial, mental and social impacts that most here would never think about. As for Mr. Naysayer. Sir, you seem rather stuck in the 'east coast' mentality. Here are some CO statutes so you can see how other states see things...
Now, someone is on a person's property here in CO and threatening, 'I am going to kill you'? Please stay in RI. |
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