Well, I just returned from Taco Bell. He was actually hungry for a burrito after seeing a Taco Bell commercial on TV. He's still got the shakes, but mostly in his hands and arms. Being hungry is a good sign!!!

He told me that several years ago when he went through DTs, that it took 2 weeks to get to the spot that he was at today. His mental clarity is very strong, and he's very determined. We had some good conversations this afternoon and he feels strongly that he's on the right path.

He's under covers on the couch right now watching some Lifetime Original Movie drama about human trafficking. I was kidding him about watching Lifetime, and he said they always watched it down at the bar.... great... my father-in-law is a chick flick junkie....  

This thread is something I needed to read right now.  Positive re-enforcement for a choice I committed to nine days ago.  I didn't have DT's, and for that, I feel lucky.  I know I've made the right choice.

Thanks

Quoted: This thread is something I needed to read right now.  Positive re-enforcement for a choice I committed to nine days ago.  I didn't have DT's, and for that, I feel lucky.  I know I've made the right choice. Thanks

AWESOME MAN!!! GOD LOVE YOUR HEART!!! I WILL PRAY FOR YOU MY FRIEND!!

If you need to talk, get ahold of me. Otherwise, know that you certainly made a good choice!! You chose life!!

Swervedriver,

 You're making the right choice!! Stick with it and see how good your life can be.  If you're not checking out AA take a look at it, a lot of people have changed their lives with the program.

BenDover,

 Wow, This guy has a good one on his side...Good Luck!  I am one who has seen firsthand how well AA can work on someone very close.  It helps a lot to have people supporting them in the hard times and all of those "One days at a time" actually do add up and equal a better life.  

Alcohol, smoking, whatever....don't involve me in your problem.

To all:

If I could stop,anyone can.You have to WANT to.17 years.

BenDover,
         You're a good man!

I am addled with addiction AQUA TEEEENNNN>

Quoted: Well, I just returned from Taco Bell. He was actually hungry for a burrito after seeing a Taco Bell commercial on TV. He's still got the shakes, but mostly in his hands and arms. Being hungry is a good sign!!! He told me that several years ago when he went through DTs, that it took 2 weeks to get to the spot that he was at today. His mental clarity is very strong, and he's very determined. We had some good conversations this afternoon and he feels strongly that he's on the right path. He's under covers on the couch right now watching some Lifetime Original Movie drama about human trafficking. I was kidding him about watching Lifetime, and he said they always watched it down at the bar.... great... my father-in-law is a chick flick junkie....

BenDover,

     You are a great guy.  I haven't seen anyone in a long time who is as giving and caring as you are.  Thank you for helping this gentleman and others this season.

    It will get better.

    Thanks again.

Quoted: This thread is something I needed to read right now.  Positive re-enforcement for a choice I committed to nine days ago.  I didn't have DT's, and for that, I feel lucky.  I know I've made the right choice. Thanks

Congratulations! This is truly great news! IM me any time for any reason if you want to talk. 9, 24 hour days is a very big achievement.  

Keep it up, you're doing something very important.

2IDdoc

Quoted: Quoted: This thread is something I needed to read right now.  Positive re-enforcement for a choice I committed to nine days ago.  I didn't have DT's, and for that, I feel lucky.  I know I've made the right choice. Thanks Congratulations! This is truly great news! IM me any time for any reason if you want to talk. 9, 24 hour days is a very big achievement.   Keep it up, you're doing something very important. 2IDdoc

Roger that!

Feel free to contact me as well.

One day at a time!

DaddyDett

Thanks guys. Things have been really good today! He's got some tremors still, but we even went out today for a while to run a couple of errands. My sister-in-law stopped over today to see him and we had a nice lunch of grilled cheese and tomato soup.

To be honest, I sort of am amazed right now at this. I was expecting at least 3-4 days of serious symptoms, but he's really doing well. He's had a lot of people praying for him... people he doesn't even know.

I think he'll go to AA this Wed.

Quoted: Thanks guys. Things have been really good today! He's got some tremors still, but we even went out today for a while to run a couple of errands. My sister-in-law stopped over today to see him and we had a nice lunch of grilled cheese and tomato soup. To be honest, I sort of am amazed right now at this. I was expecting at least 3-4 days of serious symptoms, but he's really doing well. He's had a lot of people praying for him... people he doesn't even know. I think he'll go to AA this Wed.

Excellent!
Urge him to get at least three phone numbers at his first meeting, and to use them daily.
Also, urge him to pick up a beginner's chip. It represents belonging, and the start of commitment to recovery.

DaddyDett

Quoted: Alcoholism is a very serious and devastating disease.

Ha! A disease? Yeah right! You should have said. "CHOOSING to drink is a very stupid CHOICE"
Thats like saying pointing a gun at your foot and shooting it to see what would happen is a disease.
Thats a loser point of view. The sooner people face their choices the sooner they recover from them. Stop with the blame game already. Man up to the the facts.

Alcohol is severely underestimated by a lot of people... myself included.

A hangover is a mild case of alcohol withdrawl.  Think about that.

Quoted: Ha! A disease? Yeah right! You should have said. "CHOOSING to drink is a very stupid CHOICE" Thats like saying pointing a gun at your foot and shooting it to see what would happen is a disease. Thats a loser point of view. The sooner people face their choices the sooner they recover from them. Stop with the blame game already. Man up to the the facts.

A public service message brought to you by the Shithouse Physicians Society: "We're Smarter Than The AMA and if You Hang Around Long Enough, We'll Mention the Word 'Ballsack' Enough Times to Prove it."

The liver is evil and must be punished.

Quoted: Quoted: Alcoholism is a very serious and devastating disease. Ha! A disease? Yeah right! You should have said. "CHOOSING to drink is a very stupid CHOICE" Thats like saying pointing a gun at your foot and shooting it to see what would happen is a disease. Thats a loser point of view. The sooner people face their choices the sooner they recover from them. Stop with the blame game already. Man up to the the facts.

The 'poor choice' can be as simple and innocent as having one beer for some people. One beer. Who's going to think that having one beer is anything?

Comeon... just have one beer with us....  what are you, a tea totaller?

You don't want to have a beer with us?

One beer?

Is something wrong with you?

Are you too good to have a beer with me?
You clearly don't know much about addiction, do you.

I grew up in a family where both parents drank daily in large amounts.  My father passed away from the effects of 55 years of chronic alcohol abuse, my mother can't be in that great of health.  His quality of life was absolute crap his last ten years.

Whatevery it is classified as it is a horrible thing to do to your family.  I grew up in a small midwestern town where everyone (and I mean everyone) drank constantly.  It's a way of life in the middle and all over America.

I tie one on once every 6-9 months and feel like crap for three days following.  I couldn't imagine doing it daily or even every weekend.  My hats off to anyone who helps break the cycle of self-abuse.

Quoted: Quoted: I'll drink to that. I'll buy the next round

This one's on me!!


My grandpa was an alcoholic, which is weird, I remember him drinking but only very little.
Me and my cousin used to go to the VFW, the only place where 12 yr olds can order wine coolers, and knock back a few wine coolers with Gramps while watching the dog races. Never seen him drunk, tho. I heard he was a mean bastard like that drunk Superman joke.

One time he was opening the champagne for xmas, it used to always overflow for him everytime. This time it didn't. He waitied like 10 secs, 1, 2, 3,... He looked down the neck to make sure and FOOOOOSH!!! Champagne shower!!!! It fooled him that year! It knew he used a towel to open it with.

Seriously, alcoholism made my grampa, the best man in the world, beat my gramma when they were younger. It fucks you up. But he overcame it.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Alcoholism is a very serious and devastating disease. Ha! A disease? Yeah right! You should have said. "CHOOSING to drink is a very stupid CHOICE" Thats like saying pointing a gun at your foot and shooting it to see what would happen is a disease. Thats a loser point of view. The sooner people face their choices the sooner they recover from them. Stop with the blame game already. Man up to the the facts. The 'poor choice' can be as simple and innocent as having one beer for some people. One beer. Who's going to think that having one beer is anything? Comeon... just have one beer with us....  what are you, a tea totaller? You don't want to have a beer with us? One beer? Is something wrong with you? Are you too good to have a beer with me? You clearly don't know much about addiction, do you.

Bingo! Its an addiction not a disease. You choose to begin and you choose to stop. Try that with a person that has AIDS or Cancer. Will power and determination can cure a drinking problem.

Gambling is not a disease
Smoking POT or anything else is not a disease.
Drinking 20 Mountain Dew's a day is not a disease.
Watching TV 15 hours a day is not a disease.

Those are all addictions. Same as drinking. You are fooling yourself and making it hard for the person you are trying to help if you continue to call it a disease and imply its not their fault.

I have a question for any of you that know alcoholism.  My grandfather was an alcoholic for many many years.  He drank so heavily that when he fell in his apartment one time they almost couldn't get him to stop bleeding.  The doctors said he had the highest blood alcohol content of anyone they'd ever seen who was still coherent.  He got stitched up in the hospital and then stayed for detox.  

He told me when he left the hospital after he'd told everyone there what they wanted to hear he went directly to a bar for a drink.  He walked up to the bar and the bartender knew him and opened a bottle.  He said the smell of the booze hit him and he was immediately sicker than he'd ever felt before.  He went to the bathroom and threw up until he was dry heaving.  He left and went home and said he never again wanted to drink.  He never had another drink.  What would cause that?  

As somebody who has personally hit rock bottom, I will say it is NOT a disease.  It is more like a personality disorder.  People who are alcoholics are likey easily addicted many things, cigs, drugs, caffeine, gambling, etc...  

Some people are genetically more likely to become physically addicted to alcohol than others, but that does not eliminate the CHOICE from the problem.  AA has helped many, about as many as have helped themselves.  The major problem I have with AA is this:

We admitted we were powerless over alcohol - that our lives had become unmanageable.

BULLSHIT!  "We" are not powerless over anything.  We make bad choices, period.  First, you have to want to quit.  Second, you have to make the correct choices to quit.  Most alcoholics use their problem, or "disease" as an excuse, and it sickens me.  Grow up and make better choices, problem solved.

Quoted: As somebody who has personally hit rock bottom, I will say it is NOT a disease.  It is more like a personality disorder.  People who are alcoholics are likey easily addicted many things, cigs, drugs, caffeine, gambling, etc...   Some people are genetically more likely to become physically addicted to alcohol than others, but that does not eliminate the CHOICE from the problem.  AA has helped many, about as many as have helped themselves.  The major problem I have with AA is this: We admitted we were powerless over alcohol - that our lives had become unmanageable. BULLSHIT!  "We" are not powerless over anything.  We make bad choices, period.  First, you have to want to quit.  Second, you have to make the correct choices to quit.  Most alcoholics use their problem, or "disease" as an excuse, and it sickens me.  Grow up and make better choices, problem solved.

So you and other addicts (and all addiction is the same, not just alcohol) have control over your genese?  Can you change your eye color too with your super strong will power?  How about the color of your skin and the shape of your nose?

Quoted: Quoted: As somebody who has personally hit rock bottom, I will say it is NOT a disease.  It is more like a personality disorder.  People who are alcoholics are likey easily addicted many things, cigs, drugs, caffeine, gambling, etc...   Some people are genetically more likely to become physically addicted to alcohol than others, but that does not eliminate the CHOICE from the problem.  AA has helped many, about as many as have helped themselves.  The major problem I have with AA is this: We admitted we were powerless over alcohol - that our lives had become unmanageable. BULLSHIT!  "We" are not powerless over anything.  We make bad choices, period.  First, you have to want to quit.  Second, you have to make the correct choices to quit.  Most alcoholics use their problem, or "disease" as an excuse, and it sickens me.  Grow up and make better choices, problem solved. So you and other addicts (and all addiction is the same, not just alcohol) have control over your genese?  Can you change your eye color too with your super strong will power?  How about the color of your skin and the shape of your nose?

alcoholics rack the disciprin,  but do not have a disease.

As it has been said before.

Diabetes = disease
Cancer = disease
Alzheimer's = disease
Parkinson's = disease

Alcoholism = not a disease

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: As somebody who has personally hit rock bottom, I will say it is NOT a disease.  It is more like a personality disorder.  People who are alcoholics are likey easily addicted many things, cigs, drugs, caffeine, gambling, etc...   Some people are genetically more likely to become physically addicted to alcohol than others, but that does not eliminate the CHOICE from the problem.  AA has helped many, about as many as have helped themselves.  The major problem I have with AA is this: We admitted we were powerless over alcohol - that our lives had become unmanageable. BULLSHIT!  "We" are not powerless over anything.  We make bad choices, period.  First, you have to want to quit.  Second, you have to make the correct choices to quit.  Most alcoholics use their problem, or "disease" as an excuse, and it sickens me.  Grow up and make better choices, problem solved. So you and other addicts (and all addiction is the same, not just alcohol) have control over your genese?  Can you change your eye color too with your super strong will power?  How about the color of your skin and the shape of your nose? alcoholics rack the disciprin,  but do not have a disease. As it has been said before. Diabetes = disease Cancer = disease Alzheimer's = disease Parkinson's = disease Alcoholism = not a disease

I am sory, but you are incorrect. Alcoholism is both a valid medical and psychiatric diagnosis.
It's sad that such attitudes as yours cost lives every year.

Definition of Alcoholism
"Alcoholism is a primary, chronic disease with genetic, psychosocial, and environmental factors influencing its development and manifestations. The disease is often progressive and fatal. It is characterized by continuous or periodic: impaired control over drinking, preoccupation with the drug alcohol, use of alcohol despite adverse consequences, and distortions in thinking, most notably denial."

"Primary" refers to the nature of alcoholism as a disease entity in addition to and separate from other pathophysiologic states which may be associated with it.

"Primary" suggests that alcoholism, as an addiction, is not a symptom of an underlying disease state.

"Disease" means an involuntary disability. It represents the sum of the abnormal phenomena displayed by a group of individuals. These phenomena are associated with a specified common set of characteristics by which these individuals differ from the norm, and which places them at a disadvantage.

"Often progressive and fatal" means that the disease persists over time and that physical, emotional, and social changes are often cumulative and may progress as drinking continues. Alcoholism causes premature death through overdose, organic complications involving the brain, liver, heart and many other organs, and by contributing to suicide, homicide, motor vehicle crashes, and other traumatic events.

"Impaired control" means the inability to limit alcohol use or to consistently limit on any drinking occasion the duration of the episode, the quantity consumed, and/or the behavioral consequences of drinking.

"Preoccupation" in association with alcohol use indicates excessive, focused attention given to the drug alcohol, its effects, and/or its use. The relative value thus assigned to alcohol by the individual often leads to a diversion of energies away from important life concerns.

"Adverse consequences" are alcohol-related problems or impairments in such areas as: physical health (e.g., alcohol withdrawal syndromes, liver disease, gastritis, anemia, neurological disorders); psychological functioning (e.g., impairments in cognition, changes in mood and behavior); interpersonal functioning (e.g., marital problems and child abuse, impaired social relationships); occupational functioning (e.g., scholastic or job problems); and legal, financial, or spiritual problems.

"Denial" is used here not only in the psychoanalytic sense of a single psychological defense mechanism disavowing the significance of events, but more broadly to include a range of psychological maneuvers designed to reduce awareness of the fact that alcohol use is the cause of an individual's problems rather than a solution to those problems. Denial becomes an integral part of the disease and a major obstacle to recovery.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Approved by the Boards of Directors of the National Council on Alcoholism and Drug Dependence, Inc. (February 3, 1990) and the American Society of Addiction Medicine (February 25, 1990).

This definition was prepared by the Joint Committee to Study the Definition and Criteria for the Diagnosis of Alcoholism of the National Council on Alcoholism and Drug Dependence and the American Society of Addiction Medicine:

Convenors: Robert M. Morse, MD, Joint Committee Chairman; Daniel K. Flavin, MD, NCADD Medical/Scientific Director

Members: Daniel J. Anderson, PhD; Margaret Bean-Bayog, MD; Henri Begleiter MD, PhD; Sheila B. Blume, MD, CAC; Jean Forest, MD; Stanley E. Gitlow, MD; Enoch Gordis, MD; James E. Kelsey, MD; Nancy K. Mello, PhD; Roger E. Meyer, MD; Robert G. Niven, MD; Ann Noll; Barton Pakull, MD; Katherine K. Pike; Lucy Barry Robe; Max A. Schneider, MD; Marc Schuckit, MD; David E. Smith, MD; Emanuel M. Steindler; Boris Tabakoff, PhD; George Vaillant, MD

Members Ex-Officio: James Callahan, DPA; Jasper Chen-See, MD; Robert D. Sparks, MD

Emeritus Consultant: Frank A. Seixas, MD


National Council on Alcoholism and Drug Dependence, Inc.


DaddyDett

How about we just agree that there is an addictive gene and if you have it your screwed.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: hmm, I cant understand the addiction to drinking massive amounts of alcohol. Im 19 and could care less about alcohol, havent been truely drunk in probably more than a year And thats why your NOT an Alcoholic. But some folks cant stop at one (like potato chips). Alcoholism is a very serious and devastating disease. It's not a disease. I don't give 2 fucks what the AA'ers try to tell you. AA is for weak people that can't can't or won't accept personal responsibility for their actions. What other disease requires you to seek out people and tell them you're sorry you hurt them? What a load of horse shit. People drink themselves to death because it doesn't hurt as much as what's driving them to drink. People that have "slips" are fooling themselves. You either say enough is enough and quit, or you wallow in your own pity and make excuses to drink. I quit a serious drinking problem10 years ago and never looked back. It's not hard. JUST FUCKING DO IT! +1 It is not a disease.  Cancer is a disease.  Alcoholism....not even close.

You don't know what the fuck you're talking about. At all.

Exercise some Goddamn self control.  Problem solved.

Good man BenDover. I doubt your father in law will ever forget what you are doing for him if he gets through this, sounds like the new beginings of an exelent relationship. Props for doing the Christian thing and seeing him through this nomatter what.

I'm a recovering alcoholic and drug addict with over 15 years sobriety.  I give all the credit to rooms of AA and my Lord a Savior Jesus Christ!

I have been sober since my mid 30's over 10 years ago and I have never looked back. I helped my Brother to get off of Crystal Meth he has been clean and drug free for 2 1/2 years now. I tried to intervene 6 months prior to his finally realizing he needed help. Got him in to rehab and he is now a sober Fishing Buddy of mine and we both are glad to have found ourselves before it was too late. You do not have to medicate to have fun.

He's doing super well. It's been since last Saturday since his last drink. I've put 4 pounds on him this week. His color looks really good. We've got him on a solid vitamin supplement routine, and he's really been active. He's disabled from a car accident that occurred in his late 20s. He broke both legs clean across the bone below his knee, which has left him with a very bad limp. His arthritis makes it difficult for him to walk, but I have never seen such determination out of a man. He swears he's never touching a drop of alcohol again. He says he knows that he cannot have just one drink, because he cannot control himself.

Now, if I could just get him to recognize the merits of the 12 Step and agree to go. One thing at a time...

getting to a counseler might help some of us are not to keen on group confession in front of a crowd.

Best wishes!

Lot's of Drinking problems in both sides of the family here. Most have taken care of themselves sadly.

Danny

OH! And my brother after 30 yrs of drinking and drugging, picked up his 30 day chip (been sober for 30 days now), has accepted the Lord, joined the church and was baptized.  What a wonder Holiday season for the family.

Quoted: OH! And my brother after 30 yrs of drinking and drugging, picked up his 30 day chip (been sober for 30 days now), has accepted the Lord, joined the church and was baptized.  What a wonder Holiday season for the family.

AWESOME!!

My prayers are with you and yours!

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: As somebody who has personally hit rock bottom, I will say it is NOT a disease.  It is more like a personality disorder.  People who are alcoholics are likey easily addicted many things, cigs, drugs, caffeine, gambling, etc...   Some people are genetically more likely to become physically addicted to alcohol than others, but that does not eliminate the CHOICE from the problem.  AA has helped many, about as many as have helped themselves.  The major problem I have with AA is this: We admitted we were powerless over alcohol - that our lives had become unmanageable. BULLSHIT!  "We" are not powerless over anything.  We make bad choices, period.  First, you have to want to quit.  Second, you have to make the correct choices to quit.  Most alcoholics use their problem, or "disease" as an excuse, and it sickens me.  Grow up and make better choices, problem solved. So you and other addicts (and all addiction is the same, not just alcohol) have control over your genese?  Can you change your eye color too with your super strong will power?  How about the color of your skin and the shape of your nose? alcoholics rack the disciprin,  but do not have a disease. As it has been said before. Diabetes = disease Cancer = disease Alzheimer's = disease Parkinson's = disease Alcoholism = not a disease

Actually it is, in a way. Yet in a way it's not.
It's because most alcoholics have an addictive personality. That is, they have a Psychological/Physical condition(Disease) that makes them more prone to be an addict.

However, as has been stated, It's the choices that they make that determine how they live their lives. Simply stating that "I have no power over this Thing!" is not how one "Cures" a disease.

In my opinion, AA simply trades one addiction (Drugs, Alcohol, Etc.) for another (Religion, God, AA, Groups, Etc.) One can almost be as bad as the other. And yes, I have had first hand knowledge with both.

I also know that many will re-addict on something else.

I have no problem with being religious.
But trading one addiction for another will not solve the underlying problem.

Tall Shadow