Quoted: A friend of mine is into what he calls "tactical paintball."  They have modded out markers that look more similar to real weapons, with all sorts of tactical stuff put on them.  He invited me to come play at an indoor location in North SLC.   I went and I had some fun but what the senarios mostly consisted of was people blasting away with full auto with their 200 round hoppers.  Most players cant use their sights because their markers have stocks that cant be used with a protective mask.  Some of the hard core folks knew the layout of the location so well that they could use the drop of the ball to make non linear shots on people hiding behind cover.  While all the hard core guys with their cool markers were saying that "tactical paintball" is the best training around, it seems like their are major issues that they are neglecting, ie limited magazine capacities and, using the sights. I was visiting my 15 year old cousin and he had a cousin from his other side of the family over.  His cousin was talking about his new G36 AEG.  I said to him "thats cool, a while back I picked up a real HK USP."  He replied with "how much did you pay?"  I told him "about $800.00."   He said "Dude, you could have got a nice airsoft blowback version for less than $200.00."    I hope he has fun with his toy guns.   While a lot of airsoft guys seem to think their "guns" are almost as cool as the "real steel," airsoft does have some good training aspects if you were to ditch the gamey attitudes and practice real senarios.  Firstly magazine capacity and magazine changes can be easily suited to simulate real situations, while the tactical paintballers discounted mag changes and just went with full loads in their massive hoppers.  In airsoft you dont need as much protection and can actually use the sights(somewhat). While I dont seriously play Paintball, and have very limited Airsoft experience, I do see some promise on the training side for Airsoft if one were to get serious and actually train rather than play games.

+1 to all the above.  I do most of my shooting with the sights, regardless of what I am shooting.  Sometimes it is useful to practice unaimed fire at extremely close range for those situations where it is impossible or impractical to use sights in the conventional way, so at least you have an idea of where your shots will go.  

You can practice home defense with airsoft.  Have the opposition start out at the doors (or even have them start out just outside, with the doors unlocked) and have the defenders start out doing things like laying in bed, sitting on the couch, etc.  

Have the defenders use the clothing and gear they would actually use for home defense and start out without their gear on.  

Do fun things like turning off all the lights to simulate a power outage and have the opposition carry tools and pretend to make a forced entry (this makes noises that the defenders can be trained to recognize).  Hell, as for the power outage thing, you could have one of the opposition guys go to the breaker and turn off the power.  

Maybe give the opposition objectives like "Avoid detection/"kill" the defenders", "steal" X number of items", with a time limit of 3 minutes or so.  The defender's objectives could be things like "Survive/Eliminate the opposition" (either by shooting the opposition or forcing them to abort) and "Prevent the opposition from stealing X number of items".  

Realistic training exercises like that can be a real eye opener for many people.  

do those stupid little bb's biodegrade?

Quoted: Like thegungal said i think we need to not be so hard on the guys who play this. Chances are they are on our side politically. We can use every vote we can get especially going into 2008. Maybe instead of busting balls we can throw some pointers about properly wearing gear .

Don't make the mistake of assuming that because they play with toy guns that they are politically affiliaited with gun owners.  A lot of the ones I've met are voting for Hillary.

The 2nd Amendment is just not on their radar screen.   Several HATED real guns.

Quoted: Probably a militia formed up to fight for their right to eat trans fats in their favorite junk food.

AHAHAHHAHA!

Politically it can go either way. Overall, airsoft seems to have no influence left or right, pro or anti, although most of the players with really high-end stuff and the collectors tend to be more pro gun, and also are much more likely to know a bit about real firearms.

There are a lot of different kinds of people in the game. Here's a short list:

1337 H4XX0Rz: These guys think that they are all that, and typically have an unhealthy obsession with Multicam. They fail to recognize that they are playing a game and they are likely to call themselves "Delta Seven" or something to that effect. Often, 1337 H4XX0Rz will spout firearms and gear knowledge which makes little or no sense, or repeat common myths about the reliability of the M16. They are not sure why the XM8 isn't in service yet. Interestingly, 1337 H4XX0Rz are often taken out by one guy in a 30 round magazine's worth of fire, as they have a tendency to bunch up in the middle of the woods while trying to look tactical.

Gamers: Gamers are just there to play the game. They chose airsoft rather than paintball for cost reasons, with realistic guns as a bonus, and hence tend to use lower-end airsoft guns. Gamers are rarely braggarts and far more tolerable than 1337 H4XX0Rz, and their ultra-casual view of the game supports this. However, gamers are also less likely to have knowledge of real guns, and can be apologetic about their hobby - they may say that they are against real guns, so that they are not criticized as much by non-airsofters. Additionally, some gamers exercise poor safety with their guns, as they don't see this as picking up a bad habit.

Chairsofters: This term is sometimes used to describe someone who does not play airsoft, but sits at their computer wishing they could. More commonly, though, it is shorthand for an airsoft collector. Some live in countries where firearms are banned - Japan, China, and the UK being notables - others simply choose airsoft for its low cost and ease of use, as ammunition is sub-1-cent per BB and the guns can often be fired even in an apartment or suburban house without causing damage or disturbance. Chairsofters are the most likely to have extensive knowledge of firearms, and many spend hundreds, even thousands, constructing detailed pistol replicas from custom and aftermarket aluminum parts. Many, especially those who use airsoft because of their country's laws, are strongly pro-gun. Some can be a little odd, as people very devoted to their hobbies often are, but they are agreeable people and not the jackasses that 1337 H4XX0Rz are.

Impressionist: I'm adapting this term to describe these people since I can't think of one better. These are best described as reenactors who accidentally stumbled into an airsoft game. They're very interested in military history and play wearing authentic kit to form an 'impression' of a particular kind of soldier in a particular kind of country at a particular time - for example, a Soviet VDV paratrooper in Afghanistan in 1988. Attention to detail is key as these players try to obtain all gear that would be worn at the time, some even going so far as to create weathering effects on their otherwise pristine gear and guns. Occasionally, someone seeking an unusual impression will build an obscure gun themselves - this is often done using external parts from a firearm parts kit and the internal mechanism from a common airsoft gun. In airsoft terms, Impressionists are about 70% chairsofter, 30% 1337 H4XX0R, but it's best to think of them like renactors who use airsoft as their venue and want to have a little more fun by shooting actual projectiles. Nice guys and they do know their stuff when it comes to firearms, gear, and military history, but sometimes they can be a little overbearing.

Skirmishers: Although this word is used in airsoft to describe anyone who regularly 'skirmishes', that is, plays airsoft, I use it here to denote the typical airsoft player. Think of a skirmisher as the average of the four categories above - he/she plays for fun, but likes a realistic gun and a little bit of 'cool guy gear'. Knows a little about firearms, much more than the normal person but still likely to harbor some common misconceptions, and may be pro or anti gun. Can be jerks or great people, but all agree on the importance of calling hits honestly and having a good time whether your thing is realism or pure shoot-em-up fun.

Dumbass kid: This is the 9-year-old whose parents bought him an el cheapo springer pistol from Wal-Mart. He's the guy you see pointing a real-looking gun at you as you drive pass. He's also the wannabe gangsta who has a Glock gat, yo, and brings it to school to show his homies. It's important to note that, to a certain point, it isn't the age that matters. Dumbass kid could be 8, 14, or 26 years old - it doesn't matter - whereas I have known some really good, knowledgeable airsofters who were 13 or 14 years old. It's the attitude.

I think you'd all find that if you really look, airsofters are great guys. Problem is, and this is true for so many things, that the ones you see, the ones who like to be loud and make themselves public, are Dumbass kid and 1337 H4XX0R.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Airsoft, like paintball could be a useful training aide and lots of fun with mature players.  But like many shooting sports it is very "gamey" or so I hear. Plus the systems are CQB only pretty much. Every time someone lumps airsoft in with paintball somewhere an angel dies. Paintball is MORE gamey than airsoft....

depends are we talking woodsball or speedball?
if speedball then yes yes it is.

Have to add one thing that has bothered me a lot actually.  Like I said before, I'm a big fan of Stargate.  I've been to the Stargate airsoft forums in order to find a way to purchase an off-world jacket (it's nice and not mil so I wear it sometimes) and I've read up on some of their costuming.  A lot of what they do is pretty cool in terms of making their own stuff and various other instances of resourcefulness.  The thing that really and truly bothers me is that I've noticed a trend to make non-combat costumes.  Air Force dress uniforms with or without the jacket.  They wear ribbons, rate badges, rank, etc.  Now, I understand this for purposes of living history events for Revolutionary War, Civil War, WWI/II, but modern is just plain wrong.  For Americans I thought it was illegal anyway?

Oh, and, yeah, a lot of the people who do this are foreign and live in other countries.

Quoted: Have to add one thing that has bothered me a lot actually.  Like I said before, I'm a big fan of Stargate.  I've been to the Stargate airsoft forums in order to find a way to purchase an off-world jacket (it's nice and not mil so I wear it sometimes) and I've read up on some of their costuming.  A lot of what they do is pretty cool in terms of making their own stuff and various other instances of resourcefulness.  The thing that really and truly bothers me is that I've noticed a trend to make non-combat costumes.  Air Force dress uniforms with or without the jacket.  They wear ribbons, rate badges, rank, etc.  Now, I understand this for purposes of living history events for Revolutionary War, Civil War, WWI/II, but modern is just plain wrong.  For Americans I thought it was illegal anyway? Oh, and, yeah, a lot of the people who do this are foreign and live in other countries.

This is probably the greatest issue I take with "Impressionist", though of course "1337 H4XX0R" has been known to do the same. Some Impressionists drop the patches and anything that signals rank or accomplishment, leaving those areas blank - I'm a fan of this particular option.

Now, on the other hand, the guys seeking impressions don't actually believe they are these things, they just want to make their kit look accurate. Plus, imitation is the greatest form of flattery and I've heard of some soldiers in the US and eastern/western Europe who thought the whole thing was pretty cool. But for every one of those there's probably three who are deeply offended, and thus I find acheivement/rank patches to be extremely disrespectful. "Skirmishers", referring to the categorization above rather than the general term, sometimes make up their own unit names and what-have-you to avoid this problem and that seems to work nicely.

Quoted: Quoted: Have to add one thing that has bothered me a lot actually.  Like I said before, I'm a big fan of Stargate.  I've been to the Stargate airsoft forums in order to find a way to purchase an off-world jacket (it's nice and not mil so I wear it sometimes) and I've read up on some of their costuming.  A lot of what they do is pretty cool in terms of making their own stuff and various other instances of resourcefulness.  The thing that really and truly bothers me is that I've noticed a trend to make non-combat costumes.  Air Force dress uniforms with or without the jacket.  They wear ribbons, rate badges, rank, etc.  Now, I understand this for purposes of living history events for Revolutionary War, Civil War, WWI/II, but modern is just plain wrong.  For Americans I thought it was illegal anyway? Oh, and, yeah, a lot of the people who do this are foreign and live in other countries. This is probably the greatest issue I take with "Impressionist", though of course "1337 H4XX0R" has been known to do the same. Some Impressionists drop the patches and anything that signals rank or accomplishment, leaving those areas blank - I'm a fan of this particular option. Now, on the other hand, the guys seeking impressions don't actually believe they are these things, they just want to make their kit look accurate. Plus, imitation is the greatest form of flattery and I've heard of some soldiers in the US and eastern/western Europe who thought the whole thing was pretty cool. But for every one of those there's probably three who are deeply offended, and thus I find acheivement/rank patches to be extremely disrespectful. "Skirmishers", referring to the categorization above rather than the general term, sometimes make up their own unit names and what-have-you to avoid this problem and that seems to work nicely.

Last June 5 I was in Carentan for Airborne Day.  Maybe 200 French and English reenactors portraying the 506PIR.  A few WWII vets and resistance fighters were VIPs and they loved it.  I wasn't wearing any of my gear (I was sorta into WWII reenacting for a little bit--not time now) but I took pics with some of them.  Extremely nice people.  The vets stood at attention for the anthem and the French played our anthem first.  And every window was full of American flags.  When my father and I went to a cafe for coffee, the owner realized we were American and wouldn't let us stand in line or order at the counter.  She made us sit at a table and she waited on us herself in pretty good English.  But, yeah, a lot of vets really appreciate it.

And on the Stargate airsoft: at least their patches are fake, heh.  Even the branch patches were made up for the show.  And no ranks on the SG combat uniforms.  Why?  No idea.

One of my customers kids was really into airsoft.I guess he got bored with it cause he joined the marines and is over in Iraq right now.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Have to add one thing that has bothered me a lot actually.  Like I said before, I'm a big fan of Stargate.  I've been to the Stargate airsoft forums in order to find a way to purchase an off-world jacket (it's nice and not mil so I wear it sometimes) and I've read up on some of their costuming.  A lot of what they do is pretty cool in terms of making their own stuff and various other instances of resourcefulness.  The thing that really and truly bothers me is that I've noticed a trend to make non-combat costumes.  Air Force dress uniforms with or without the jacket.  They wear ribbons, rate badges, rank, etc.  Now, I understand this for purposes of living history events for Revolutionary War, Civil War, WWI/II, but modern is just plain wrong.  For Americans I thought it was illegal anyway? Oh, and, yeah, a lot of the people who do this are foreign and live in other countries. This is probably the greatest issue I take with "Impressionist", though of course "1337 H4XX0R" has been known to do the same. Some Impressionists drop the patches and anything that signals rank or accomplishment, leaving those areas blank - I'm a fan of this particular option. Now, on the other hand, the guys seeking impressions don't actually believe they are these things, they just want to make their kit look accurate. Plus, imitation is the greatest form of flattery and I've heard of some soldiers in the US and eastern/western Europe who thought the whole thing was pretty cool. But for every one of those there's probably three who are deeply offended, and thus I find acheivement/rank patches to be extremely disrespectful. "Skirmishers", referring to the categorization above rather than the general term, sometimes make up their own unit names and what-have-you to avoid this problem and that seems to work nicely. Last June 5 I was in Carentan for Airborne Day.  Maybe 200 French and English reenactors portraying the 506PIR.  A few WWII vets and resistance fighters were VIPs and they loved it.  I wasn't wearing any of my gear (I was sorta into WWII reenacting for a little bit--not time now) but I took pics with some of them.  Extremely nice people.  The vets stood at attention for the anthem and the French played our anthem first.  And every window was full of American flags.  When my father and I went to a cafe for coffee, the owner realized we were American and wouldn't let us stand in line or order at the counter.  She made us sit at a table and she waited on us herself in pretty good English.  But, yeah, a lot of vets really appreciate it. And on the Stargate airsoft: at least their patches are fake, heh.  Even the branch patches were made up for the show.  And no ranks on the SG combat uniforms.  Why?  No idea.

Absolutely. I was primarily referring to the same thing you took offense at - modern patches/etc. While someone doing an impression for Vietnam, WWII, Korea, Falklands, etc. is obviously simply trying to recreate history, someone wearing patches in an impression of, for example, a US soldier in OIF could be or could be seen as a poser, which is where the problem lies.

Just wanted to clarify my previous post there.