ATF to Examine Some Airsoft Guns to be Banned from Importation - Page 2

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - ATF to Examine Some Airsoft Guns to be Banned from Importation (Page 2 of 3)

Posted: 5/25/2009 11:45:05 AM EDT

[#1]

Quoted:
I believe somebody on here posted that the lower parts in their airsoft M-4 were pretty much 1:1 clones of select fire fcg parts- so much so that they were contemplating replacing them with the real deal.

Yes I started that discussion a while ago, http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=6&t=822272&page=1 Pretty much concluded that I didn't want to jeopardize an already questionably legal system by pushing the limits any further than they already were.

Posted: 5/25/2009 11:45:12 AM EDT

[#2]

Quoted:

A friend of mine has an all-metal airsoft M-4 with a realistic-looking Gemtech suppresser on it. It was a gift from another friend.

Oops, now it's verboten by the ATF because, um, they have jurisdiction over everything that vaguely resembles a gun now?
Fuck the ATF. Fuck 'em all to hell.

Unfortunately airsoft suppressors are illegal.

Fortunately, most police officers and custom agents don't care.

Posted: 5/25/2009 11:49:52 AM EDT

[#3]

Quoted:

Quoted:

I believe somebody on here posted that the lower parts in their airsoft M-4 were pretty much 1:1 clones of select fire fcg parts- so much so that they were contemplating replacing them with the real deal.

Yes I started that discussion a while ago, http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=6&t=822272&page=1 Pretty much concluded that I didn't want to jeopardize an already questionably legal system by pushing the limits any further than they already were.

FAIL - you have 5 times as many posts on Arnie's as you do on ARF?

Posted: 5/25/2009 11:53:55 AM EDT

[#4]

I wonder how the NRA would react if the ATF declared all airsoft guns illegal, there's been a movement already to ban them due to kids getting killed by cops. They're not real guns, so would gun rights activists care at all?

Posted: 5/25/2009 11:55:37 AM EDT

[#5]

Quoted:
I wonder how the NRA would react if the ATF declared all airsoft guns illegal, there's been a movement already to ban them due to kids getting killed by cops. They're not real guns, so would gun rights activists care at all?

Good question.

Posted: 5/25/2009 11:58:45 AM EDT

[#6]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Where at? What brands are good and which ones should people stay away from?

It depends, what gun are you looking for?

Well, I looked at the $97 AR that you posted and that might fit the bill. Something along those lines. Handguns too.

Looking around for a while now and want to do some cheap shooting with the boys. Don't want that Wal-Mart stuff but can't afford them if they cost as much as a real firearm also.

Good quality at a fair price that won't break the first time me and my mini-me's start using them

Posted: 5/25/2009 12:00:02 PM EDT

[#7]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I believe somebody on here posted that the lower parts in their airsoft M-4 were pretty much 1:1 clones of select fire fcg parts- so much so that they were contemplating replacing them with the real deal.

Yes I started that discussion a while ago, http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=6&t=822272&page=1 Pretty much concluded that I didn't want to jeopardize an already questionably legal system by pushing the limits any further than they already were.

FAIL - you have 5 times as many posts on Arnie's as you do on ARF?

Maybe because I'm an airsofter? Get over yourself dude.

Posted: 5/25/2009 12:01:49 PM EDT

[#8]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I believe somebody on here posted that the lower parts in their airsoft M-4 were pretty much 1:1 clones of select fire fcg parts- so much so that they were contemplating replacing them with the real deal.

Yes I started that discussion a while ago, http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=6&t=822272&page=1 Pretty much concluded that I didn't want to jeopardize an already questionably legal system by pushing the limits any further than they already were.

FAIL - you have 5 times as many posts on Arnie's as you do on ARF?

Maybe because I'm an airsofter? Get over yourself dude.

You own real guns too?

Posted: 5/25/2009 12:01:51 PM EDT

[#9]

Quoted:

Quoted:
As far as airsoft is concerned, those are a lot less gay than most.

That's because the only airsoft gun most ARFCOMmers have ever seen are the shittiest ones.

http://www.airgunsbbguns.com/v/vspfiles/photos/CG47952-1.jpg

That's why I stress here that anyone planning on getting one gets the right one so they don't come back on here and turn people off of it.

The airsoft market has been saturated with sup-par replicas.

I'm looking for a good glock 19 airsoft for force-on-force training. Who makes a good one, and more importantly where should I buy one?

Posted: 5/25/2009 12:07:55 PM EDT

[#10]

Quoted:

You own real guns too?

Yes, but what does that matter... this isn't about me, rather the legality of these airsoft replicas.

*Yet somehow GD always finds a way to derail every discussion*

Posted: 5/25/2009 12:12:03 PM EDT

[#11]

Quoted:

Quoted:

I believe somebody on here posted that the lower parts in their airsoft M-4 were pretty much 1:1 clones of select fire fcg parts- so much so that they were contemplating replacing them with the real deal.

Yes I started that discussion a while ago, http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=6&t=822272&page=1 Pretty much concluded that I didn't want to jeopardize an already questionably legal system by pushing the limits any further than they already were.

FAIL - you have 5 times as many posts on Arnie's as you do on ARF?

Maybe because I'm an airsofter? Get over yourself dude.

You own real guns too?

Do you own firearms?

Posted: 5/25/2009 12:17:05 PM EDT

[#12]

Quoted:
Do you own firearms?

Umm, I'm going to assume that was directed towards grains rather than believe you can't read the post above you.

Posted: 5/25/2009 12:19:14 PM EDT

[#13]

So when the ATF conducts raids on airsoft shops and homes, will they use airsoft guns as well?

Posted: 5/25/2009 12:20:32 PM EDT

[#14]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I believe somebody on here posted that the lower parts in their airsoft M-4 were pretty much 1:1 clones of select fire fcg parts- so much so that they were contemplating replacing them with the real deal.

Yes I started that discussion a while ago, http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=6&t=822272&page=1 Pretty much concluded that I didn't want to jeopardize an already questionably legal system by pushing the limits any further than they already were.

FAIL - you have 5 times as many posts on Arnie's as you do on ARF?

Maybe because I'm an airsofter? Get over yourself dude.

You own real guns too?

Do you own firearms?

uhh yes. Why are airsofters so fucking hostile? I asked a question because he said he was an airsofter, I was curious if he was into real guns as well. I wasn't trying to attack him or airsoft. What's funny is, I was finally about to say "oh those airsoft look like decent training tools for close range", but now im back to "it's fucking gay, and dressing up in US military uniforms, helmets included for fun is queerer than two male donkeys fucking in the middle of an all male orgy during a Jason Mraz concert.". Thanks for swaying my opinion.

Posted: 5/25/2009 12:21:12 PM EDT

[#15]

In before some troll calls everybody discussing this topic kiddie faggots...

Posted: 5/25/2009 12:25:02 PM EDT

[#16]

Quoted:
I was wondering if the ATF would be getting around to these.

I remember reading in an ATF newsletter a few years back about a bunch of pellet guns from Russia that made it into the US. The problem was, they were built on actual AK47 receivers.

Needless to say, they tracked those things down pretty quick.

RF

Posted: 5/25/2009 12:28:31 PM EDT

[#17]

Quoted:
seriously. what right does the BATFE have to regulate these devices? They do not blow up, you cannot smoke them, drinking them is out of the question, and they are NOT firearms.
Where is the authority?

If the part can function as a receiver, it's a firearm, hence under the jurisdiction of the ATF.

It's no different than if you took a receiver, put a string through it and called it a Christmas tree ornament.

Not. Gunna. Fly.

RF

Posted: 5/25/2009 12:29:09 PM EDT

[#18]

Quoted:

uhh yes. Why are airsofters so fucking hostile? I asked a question because he said he was an airsofter, I was curious if he was into real guns as well. I wasn't trying to attack him or airsoft. What's funny is, I was finally about to say "oh those airsoft look like decent training tools for close range", but now im back to "it's fucking gay, and dressing up in US military uniforms, helmets included for fun is queerer than two male donkeys fucking in the middle of an all male orgy". Thanks for swaying my opinion.

I wasn't being hostile, merely defensive... I don't take it to kindly when someone labels me 'FAIL' and I doubt you would either. Honestly I believe HK's purpose in starting this thread and his comments to me and you are only to incite further argument. Some people just need to chill.

Posted: 5/25/2009 12:30:17 PM EDT

[#19]

Quoted:

Quoted:
seriously. what right does the BATFE have to regulate these devices? They do not blow up, you cannot smoke them, drinking them is out of the question, and they are NOT firearms.
Where is the authority?

If the part can function as a receiver, it's a firearm, hence under the jurisdiction of the ATF.

It's no different than if you took a receiver, put a string through it and called it a Christmas tree ornament.

Not. Gunna. Fly.

RF

How do you define what a receiver is?

That's the problem. The ATF has total free lance freedom to say what is and what is not a receiver. They can doctor up any test, write up any report, and it's all taken without question and put into effect as law through Federal Regulation.

No oversight.

No transparency.

Posted: 5/25/2009 12:31:07 PM EDT

[#20]

Quoted:
Thank god the ATF is protecting us from toy guns

Amen. I feel safer already.

Posted: 5/25/2009 12:31:41 PM EDT

[#21]

Quoted:

Quoted:

uhh yes. Why are airsofters so fucking hostile? I asked a question because he said he was an airsofter, I was curious if he was into real guns as well. I wasn't trying to attack him or airsoft. What's funny is, I was finally about to say "oh those airsoft look like decent training tools for close range", but now im back to "it's fucking gay, and dressing up in US military uniforms, helmets included for fun is queerer than two male donkeys fucking in the middle of an all male orgy". Thanks for swaying my opinion.

I wasn't being hostile, merely defensive... I don't take it to kindly when someone labels me 'FAIL' and I doubt you would either. Honestly I believe HK's purpose in starting this thread and his comments to me and you are only to incite further argument. Some people just need to chill.

I think we may have had a misunderstanding. I was personally asking you if you owned real guns too because I was curious, I know a lot of airsofters are into the real thing as well, I wasn't trying to insult you. Then when I asked that you got all defensive, and then HK shooter asked me if I owned any firearms seeming as if he was being pissy.

Posted: 5/25/2009 12:38:14 PM EDT

[#22]

If it's not a firearm, how does the ATF have any saying at all, what's next belt buckles, and whishkey bottle that LOOK LIKE GUNS

Posted: 5/25/2009 12:38:36 PM EDT

[#23]

Just received information from a reliable source that the new AGM/JG/DBOY GBB Rifles will be sent to ATF for inspection. Failing the inspection will mean that the these GBB Rifle will not be allowed to be imported & sold in the USA.

It should be noted that The WE AWSS GBB rifle also went thru the same inspection with a negative result prohibiting it to be sold to the public in the USA.

Posted: 5/25/2009 12:45:21 PM EDT

[#24]

Quoted:

Quoted:
As far as airsoft is concerned, those are a lot less gay than most.

That's because the only airsoft gun most ARFCOMmers have ever seen are the shittiest ones.

http://www.airgunsbbguns.com/v/vspfiles/photos/CG47952-1.jpg

That's why I stress here that anyone planning on getting one gets the right one so they don't come back on here and turn people off of it.

The airsoft market has been saturated with sup-par replicas.

I'm looking for a good glock 19 airsoft for force-on-force training. Who makes a good one, and more importantly where should I buy one?

Same here...

The suarez guys use these for force on force training. I don't know much about airsoft stuff but I would assume that the ones they sell in their store (One Source Tactical) are probably the ones that they use for force on force, so I would assume that they are probably decent and up to the task.

http://www.onesourcetactical.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWCATS&Category=211

I'm thinking about picking one of those up pretty soon.

Posted: 5/25/2009 12:55:30 PM EDT

[#25]

Quoted:

uhh yes. Why are airsofters so fucking hostile? I asked a question because he said he was an airsofter, I was curious if he was into real guns as well. I wasn't trying to attack him or airsoft. What's funny is, I was finally about to say "oh those airsoft look like decent training tools for close range", but now im back to "it's fucking gay, and dressing up in US military uniforms, helmets included for fun is queerer than two male donkeys fucking in the middle of an all male orgy during a Jason Mraz concert.". Thanks for swaying my opinion.

It wasn't directed at you. I was agreeing with you.

Posted: 5/25/2009 1:05:30 PM EDT

[#26]

wow talk about amazing replicas

Posted: 5/25/2009 1:15:24 PM EDT

[#27]

Quoted:

Quoted:
uhh yes. Why are airsofters so fucking hostile? I asked a question because he said he was an airsofter, I was curious if he was into real guns as well. I wasn't trying to attack him or airsoft. What's funny is, I was finally about to say "oh those airsoft look like decent training tools for close range", but now im back to "it's fucking gay, and dressing up in US military uniforms, helmets included for fun is queerer than two male donkeys fucking in the middle of an all male orgy during a Jason Mraz concert.". Thanks for swaying my opinion.

It wasn't directed at you. I was agreeing with you.

Sorry then, post retracted. I got upset because I was finally like "hmm I could see those being useful training tools" then I thought everyone was attacking me haha. Carry on.

Quick question, with that sub 100 dollar one, is it as realistic as the one in the video?

Posted: 5/25/2009 1:19:41 PM EDT

[#28]

Quoted:

Quoted:

I'm looking for a good glock 19 airsoft for force-on-force training. Who makes a good one, and more importantly where should I buy one?

Same here...

The suarez guys use these for force on force training. I don't know much about airsoft stuff but I would assume that the ones they sell in their store (One Source Tactical) are probably the ones that they use for force on force, so I would assume that they are probably decent and up to the task.

http://www.onesourcetactical.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWCATS&Category=211

If that is the metal slide KWA gas blowback Glock (they make plastic slides too) then it is good to go. I have the KWA Glock 19 and I purchased it after doing a force-on-force training with Insights Training Center in Rochester, NY. Much cheaper and easier to use than simunitions. The staff at Insights said they had good experience with KWA metal slide GBB guns. The chief instructor had a Sig P228 GBB while the other instructors and students were using 1911 or Glock gas guns. The 1911 was not a KWA; I think it was a WE.

While shipping green gas is a pain I have an airsoft store that is 30 mins from my parents's place (Shorty USA in Newark DE). I can just go down there to buy green gas.

HK Shooter may know more on this subject, but the KWA GBB Glocks have been drying up as of late. Supposedly it is because Glock is suing them for intellectual property infringement. I know Airsoft Atlanta (where I got my KWA) and Shorty USA no longer carry the KWA Glocks.

[I wouldn't mind a KWA Glock 18 for kicks though.]

Edit: One Source wants $162 for their KWA Glock 19, which isn't in stock ... for reference I got mine from Airsoft Atlanta for $120 in 2007.

Edit 2: HK Shooter, that Western M4 costs $550??? Well I guess you gotta pay to play ...

Posted: 5/25/2009 1:21:33 PM EDT

[#29]

You're shittn' me right?????

I though you guys in the States were for real...... now yous sound like you got the Brit liberal virus...... for fuck's sake.... they're toys.

Posted: 5/25/2009 1:26:29 PM EDT

[#30]

Quoted:
You're shittn' me right?????

I though you guys in the States were for real...... now yous sound like you got the Brit liberal virus...... for fuck's sake.... they're toys.

When keepin' it real goes wrong...

Posted: 5/25/2009 1:47:13 PM EDT

[#31]

Quoted:
that Western M4 costs $550??? Well I guess you gotta pay to play ...

http://www.airsoftatlanta.com/images/wa_m4cqb_jpg.jpg

The original WA does yes, the AGM is a direct chinese copy and sells for $124... it's quality has yet to be tested.

Posted: 5/25/2009 1:51:33 PM EDT

[#32]

Quoted:
I wonder how the NRA would react if the ATF declared all airsoft guns illegal, there's been a movement already to ban them due to kids getting killed by cops. They're not real guns, so would gun rights activists care at all?

I would wager most people wouldn't want to waste the resources and use them for "something that matters"

Posted: 5/25/2009 2:09:37 PM EDT

[#33]

Quoted:

Quoted:

I'm looking for a good glock 19 airsoft for force-on-force training. Who makes a good one, and more importantly where should I buy one?

Same here...

The suarez guys use these for force on force training. I don't know much about airsoft stuff but I would assume that the ones they sell in their store (One Source Tactical) are probably the ones that they use for force on force, so I would assume that they are probably decent and up to the task.

http://www.onesourcetactical.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWCATS&Category=211

If that is the metal slide KWA gas blowback Glock (they make plastic slides too) then it is good to go. I have the KWA Glock 19 and I purchased it after doing a force-on-force training with Insights Training Center in Rochester, NY. Much cheaper and easier to use than simunitions. The staff at Insights said they had good experience with KWA metal slide GBB guns. The chief instructor had a Sig P228 GBB while the other instructors and students were using 1911 or Glock gas guns. The 1911 was not a KWA; I think it was a WE.

While shipping green gas is a pain I have an airsoft store that is 30 mins from my parents's place (Shorty USA in Newark DE). I can just go down there to buy green gas.

HK Shooter may know more on this subject, but the KWA GBB Glocks have been drying up as of late. Supposedly it is because Glock is suing them for intellectual property infringement. I know Airsoft Atlanta (where I got my KWA) and Shorty USA no longer carry the KWA Glocks.

[I wouldn't mind a KWA Glock 18 for kicks though.]

Edit: One Source wants $162 for their KWA Glock 19, which isn't in stock ... for reference I got mine from Airsoft Atlanta for $120 in 2007.

Edit 2: HK Shooter, that Western M4 costs $550??? Well I guess you gotta pay to play ...

http://www.airsoftatlanta.com/images/wa_m4cqb_jpg.jpg

You used to be able to get the cheaper brands but it seems that they've all been pulled from American stores. (The M4 GBBs)

You can have Glock GBBs imported.

Posted: 5/25/2009 2:11:42 PM EDT

[#34]

Quoted:

Quoted:
So , where exactly do i get one? It'd be good for practice when I don't feel like using the real thing.

http://www.airsoftextreme.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=366_486&products_id=3850&zenid=492099fc0e1acf0977e9f64443abdee3

I could see maybe 200, but 650?

Damn! I just built a real one for about $100.00 more....I guess you save on the ammo!

Posted: 5/25/2009 2:25:30 PM EDT

[#35]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Whats a Good electric model to choose from, or i guess i should ask which is better gas/electric.

i heard alot of good things about some electric models that are made with 100% metal, but am serious about buying one soon

What model are you looking for?

Some of mine.

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f178/chrishartman/100_0561.jpg

Nice STAR! I want another one like that but I can't justify the price when I only paid $200 for mine:

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k274/DyNo541/DSCF3167-1.jpg

I like the AR platforms or Maybe like what model the OP posted in his topic, but didnt know if electric or gas was better, just looking for something that will definately hold up to some rough play, and wont kill the bank account

Posted: 5/25/2009 2:28:15 PM EDT

[#36]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Whats a Good electric model to choose from, or i guess i should ask which is better gas/electric.

i heard alot of good things about some electric models that are made with 100% metal, but am serious about buying one soon

What model are you looking for?

Some of mine.

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f178/chrishartman/100_0561.jpg

Jesus, I'd bet you could have bought two REAL firearms for what these cost.

Posted: 5/25/2009 2:33:42 PM EDT

[#37]

Quoted:

A lot of people here seem to lump all airsoft together. I find this is most from ignorance on their part. "Professional" airsoft is a very large sport here in the U.S..While you won't hear or see half as much of it as you do paintball, this is really the preferred place for airsofters. We don't have the velocity restricitons other countries have, we don't have a metal rule where the bodies have to be plastic like some countries do, etc...

I've owned my fair shair of airsoft guns, and I must say they are a lot of fun when you're not playing with $200 or less guns. Seriously, go out there and demo a nice G&G or G&P or, if you're lucky, a Systema PTW (professional training weapon), your opinion of airsoft will change very quickly.

It is also rediculous to claim that these could be converted into real weapons with any kind of ease. The ammount of time and tooling it would take would far surpase the time and cost required to legally or illegaly obtain a rifle (if said conversion was even possible, I am almost 100% sure it is not).

The ATF shouldn't even be investigating this at all, it really dissapoints me that even this is being infringed on by the government.

Check out www.redwolfairsoft.com if you want to see the high end realm of "gaysoft"... you might be a little supprised with what you find.

Some of these guns are $600+. Why not just buy a REAL gun that will have and retain its value forever?

Posted: 5/25/2009 3:50:33 PM EDT

[#38]

You know, reading through this thread has taken my spastic face palming to a whole new level. I've got to say the majority of attitudes regarding airsoft and airsoft replicas here are widely misplaced, based on false opinions, outdated information and are due largely to just plain ignorance. I can't possibly change your minds or correct the inaccuracies presented in this thread so I'm not even going to try. All I want you to realize is that you wouldn't go to Arnies airsoft to ask about your AR-15 and expect anywhere near accurate information, so please don't ask about technical airsoft replicas here and expect the same.

Posted: 5/25/2009 3:52:18 PM EDT

[#39]

Quoted:
Jesus, I'd bet you could have bought two REAL firearms for what these cost.

Quoted:
Damn! I just built a real one for about $100.00 more....I guess you save on the ammo!

Quoted:

Some of these guns are $600+. Why not just buy a REAL gun that will have and retain its value forever?

Did you two seriously not see the perfectly good $97 one?

I agree with the [/facepalm] comment above.

Posted: 5/25/2009 4:15:41 PM EDT

[#40]

Quoted:

Quoted:
seriously. what right does the BATFE have to regulate these devices? They do not blow up, you cannot smoke them, drinking them is out of the question, and they are NOT firearms.
Where is the authority?

If the part can function as a receiver, it's a firearm, hence under the jurisdiction of the ATF.

It's no different than if you took a receiver, put a string through it and called it a Christmas tree ornament.

Not. Gunna. Fly.

RF

How do you define what a receiver is?

That's the problem. The ATF has total free lance freedom to say what is and what is not a receiver. They can doctor up any test, write up any report, and it's all taken without question and put into effect as law through Federal Regulation.

No oversight.

No transparency.

Actually what constitutes a receiver is pretty standardized. Their testing practices suck, but their receiver classifications are pretty standard. We all know what constitutes an AK or AR reciever. Or an HK, or Masada, or a bolt rifle. Even on a stamped gun like a 240 or M2 certain plates of the receiver are classified as the registered parts. IE: the right sideplate of an M2 is registered but the left side is. It's standardized on every firearm.

I think it's perfectly reasonable for the ATF to say that if you were to make an M16 receiver and then sell it as an airsoft toy, you've made a MG. If it can take a trigger and real mags, and then attach to a real upper, it's a firearm. Example is that crossbow upper. You can build a lower and sell it "to be used only with the crossbow upper" (which is not a firearm) package, but it's still a firearm because it's a registered firearm component.

That said, while I would agree with a M16 airsoft lower if made with real parts that can accept real parts is a MG, I don't think there should be any restrictions on MGs. I think the registry at the very least should be open (or done away with entirely).

Posted: 5/25/2009 4:21:35 PM EDT

[#41]

Quoted:
If it's not a firearm, how does the ATF have any saying at all, what's next belt buckles, and whishkey bottle that LOOK LIKE GUNS

My thoughts exactly. I fail to see any connection to alcohol, tobacco or firearms.

Posted: 5/25/2009 4:45:59 PM EDT

[#42]

Quoted:
So when the ATF conducts raids on airsoft shops and homes, will they use airsoft guns as well?

LOL, best comment of the thread so far. Sgt Sugarcookie will lead the raid.

Posted: 5/25/2009 5:37:38 PM EDT

[#43]

Quoted:

Quoted:
A lot of people here seem to lump all airsoft together. I find this is most from ignorance on their part. "Professional" airsoft is a very large sport here in the U.S..While you won't hear or see half as much of it as you do paintball, this is really the preferred place for airsofters. We don't have the velocity restricitons other countries have, we don't have a metal rule where the bodies have to be plastic like some countries do, etc...

I've owned my fair shair of airsoft guns, and I must say they are a lot of fun when you're not playing with $200 or less guns. Seriously, go out there and demo a nice G&G or G&P or, if you're lucky, a Systema PTW (professional training weapon), your opinion of airsoft will change very quickly.

It is also rediculous to claim that these could be converted into real weapons with any kind of ease. The ammount of time and tooling it would take would far surpase the time and cost required to legally or illegaly obtain a rifle (if said conversion was even possible, I am almost 100% sure it is not).

The ATF shouldn't even be investigating this at all, it really dissapoints me that even this is being infringed on by the government.

Check out www.redwolfairsoft.com if you want to see the high end realm of "gaysoft"... you might be a little supprised with what you find.

Some of these guns are $600+. Why not just buy a REAL gun that will have and retain its value forever?

I would not pay $600 but the good pistols are the cats ass for Force on Force training much cheaper than sim rounds and a sim gun.

Posted: 5/25/2009 5:41:43 PM EDT

[#44]

Quoted:

Quoted:

A lot of people here seem to lump all airsoft together. I find this is most from ignorance on their part. "Professional" airsoft is a very large sport here in the U.S..While you won't hear or see half as much of it as you do paintball, this is really the preferred place for airsofters. We don't have the velocity restricitons other countries have, we don't have a metal rule where the bodies have to be plastic like some countries do, etc...

I've owned my fair shair of airsoft guns, and I must say they are a lot of fun when you're not playing with $200 or less guns. Seriously, go out there and demo a nice G&G or G&P or, if you're lucky, a Systema PTW (professional training weapon), your opinion of airsoft will change very quickly.

It is also rediculous to claim that these could be converted into real weapons with any kind of ease. The ammount of time and tooling it would take would far surpase the time and cost required to legally or illegaly obtain a rifle (if said conversion was even possible, I am almost 100% sure it is not).

The ATF shouldn't even be investigating this at all, it really dissapoints me that even this is being infringed on by the government.

Check out www.redwolfairsoft.com if you want to see the high end realm of "gaysoft"... you might be a little supprised with what you find.

Some of these guns are $600+. Why not just buy a REAL gun that will have and retain its value forever?

I would not pay $600 but the good pistols are the cats ass for Force on Force training much cheaper than sim rounds and a sim gun.

Please read 5 posts up.

Posted: 5/25/2009 5:51:07 PM EDT

[#45]

Quoted:

Quoted:

I'm looking for a good glock 19 airsoft for force-on-force training. Who makes a good one, and more importantly where should I buy one?

Same here...

The suarez guys use these for force on force training. I don't know much about airsoft stuff but I would assume that the ones they sell in their store (One Source Tactical) are probably the ones that they use for force on force, so I would assume that they are probably decent and up to the task.

http://www.onesourcetactical.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWCATS&Category=211

If that is the metal slide KWA gas blowback Glock (they make plastic slides too) then it is good to go. I have the KWA Glock 19 and I purchased it after doing a force-on-force training with Insights Training Center in Rochester, NY. Much cheaper and easier to use than simunitions. The staff at Insights said they had good experience with KWA metal slide GBB guns. The chief instructor had a Sig P228 GBB while the other instructors and students were using 1911 or Glock gas guns. The 1911 was not a KWA; I think it was a WE.

While shipping green gas is a pain I have an airsoft store that is 30 mins from my parents's place (Shorty USA in Newark DE). I can just go down there to buy green gas.

HK Shooter may know more on this subject, but the KWA GBB Glocks have been drying up as of late. Supposedly it is because Glock is suing them for intellectual property infringement. I know Airsoft Atlanta (where I got my KWA) and Shorty USA no longer carry the KWA Glocks.

[I wouldn't mind a KWA Glock 18 for kicks though.]

Edit: One Source wants $162 for their KWA Glock 19, which isn't in stock ... for reference I got mine from Airsoft Atlanta for $120 in 2007.

Edit 2: HK Shooter, that Western M4 costs $550??? Well I guess you gotta pay to play ...

http://www.airsoftatlanta.com/images/wa_m4cqb_jpg.jpg

AIRSPLAT.Com got G19 gas blow backs in stock. They are KWA I believe, with Trigger safety and metal slide for $120 I think. In stock now.

LINK

Posted: 5/25/2009 5:57:40 PM EDT

[#46]

I was wondering where all the internals are, but then i realized that these operate on gas, like GBB pistols. This wont effect airsoft really, since 100% off all AEGs (automatic electric gun), cannot be made like that, they require a heavy duty gearbox to hold a piston, spring, gears, and all other kinds of stuff, and look like this when the upper is removed,

Thats only about 1/3 of the gearbox that is showing.

To all those who havent seen a high quality AEG, here is my Classic Army all metal. BTW i just tried the removable carrying handle/ rear sights on my real Armalite AR-15 and its just as accurate as a real one, so does that mean that they will start banning airsoft guns that have removable carrying handles?

AIRSOFT