ATF goes into action in TN and arrests arfcommer Shoot-n-Scoot - Page 2

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - ATF goes into action in TN and arrests arfcommer Shoot-n-Scoot (Page 2 of 20)

Posted: 3/24/2006 9:37:33 AM EDT

[#1]

Clearly, they did have Probable cause for a warrant. That does not however prove guilt. It is the job of the police to investigate and present their findings. The word of a disgruntled former spouse is usually considered reliable information, because in many many cases in the past it has led to solving many crimes. I'm not saying this is the case in this particular situation, but it does happen with regularity. Now, was he drilling extra holes or not? That is really what the case will come down to and if he did make machine guns, where did they go? Lots unsaid here. I would not be quick to pass judgement either postive or negative without more facts which I'm sure will unfold in due time.

Posted: 3/24/2006 9:37:40 AM EDT

[#2]

tag

Posted: 3/24/2006 9:39:23 AM EDT

[#3]

Quoted:
Quoted:
A couple of questions. How many guns per year can a private person manufacture for their own personal use and not for resale? I thought it was one.

How many was he working on " finishing " or rather manufacturing without a manufacturer's license?

Has he been charged? or not?

If he has, he seems pretty nonchalant about it given that he posted just yesterday about attending a local shoot.

What a POS.

I don't know why you'd call the guy a POS without having all the facts?

Posted: 3/24/2006 9:39:24 AM EDT

[#4]

My ex tried hard to do the same thing, but it didn't go that far.

Posted: 3/24/2006 9:39:41 AM EDT

[#5]

Hell hatf no fury like the scron of a MAD women.....

She's pissed so

1. He arrested
2 He is now broke
3 His guns are gone
4 He will probably never be able to buy a gun again

She's thrilled.

I have been married to the same one for 33 years. Might as well ALL women are the same.

My Dad on his death bed, and this is no joke, he died when I was 24, I'm 52. He had been in a coma for a few day's my sister came in from CA to be there when he died. He was in a coma when she got there, She starts talking to him about all the years he worked second shift at Firestone while mom worked days. He opens his eyes looks at her and says, "That was the only way I could stayed married to your mother"....

Posted: 3/24/2006 9:40:50 AM EDT

[#6]

Quoted:
Quoted:
They have seized his house pending approval of a search warrant

How the hell does that work?
Fuck the ATF - the whole lot of 'em are nothing more than a group of cheap thugs.

How it works is that they surround the place and don't search allowing the owners to come and go as they please until the search warrant arrives. They show up without one first on the off chance that a person with nothing to hide would let them in for a chat and look around to prove to them that there is nothing wrong going on there.

yep

Posted: 3/24/2006 9:41:05 AM EDT

[#7]

Thanks for the plug. That's my site covering shoot-n-scoot's ordeal. Quite sad. To my knowledge, he's still in holding and ATF has been at his house since at least since 9:00 last night.

He has nothing illegal that I know of. A few partiall machined 0% lowers and some Romanian AK kits.

I have some NRA-ILA folks interested and a prominent gun rights attorney has been on the phone with me. For now, I just wait.

Hate to pimp for bling but if anyone wants to donate to the cause (he'll need it), here's info on how.

Posted: 3/24/2006 9:42:12 AM EDT

[#8]

I just hope that he didnt have any 'illegal' Busch talls and 'illegal' Winston lights laying around.

BTW- Hearing about vindictive ex-wives and thier lying to get 'payback' abso-frikken-lutely infuriate me.

His ex is obviouslly a card- carrying, paper-certified bitch -but so is karma.

Posted: 3/24/2006 9:44:47 AM EDT

[#9]

Based on the track record of ATF bullshit. They are cocksuckers until proven otherwise. Every damn one of them. Nothing is going to change my mind on that either. They aren't working too hard at changing anyway it seems.

I'll reverse my stance on THIS case if and only if someone can show me that he ever created, or sold a machine gun. All the 'constructive possesion' horse feces means is they don't have any evidence of that, but they will have thier pound of flesh anyway.

Posted: 3/24/2006 9:45:56 AM EDT

[#10]

Tag for updates

Posted: 3/24/2006 9:46:02 AM EDT

[#11]

Shoot-N-Scoot

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Posted: 3/24/2006 9:47:22 AM EDT

[#12]

Quoted:
They have seized his house pending approval of a search warrant

How the hell does that work?
Fuck the ATF - the whole lot of 'em are nothing more than a group of cheap thugs.

I was wondering the same thing.

Posted: 3/24/2006 9:47:40 AM EDT

[#13]

Wow. There ought to be significant legal implications for the ex when this guy has been cleared. Lying to the feds to screw with her ex-husband?

Posted: 3/24/2006 9:48:23 AM EDT

[#14]

Quoted:
Quoted:
They have seized his house pending approval of a search warrant

How the hell does that work?
Fuck the ATF - the whole lot of 'em are nothing more than a group of cheap thugs.

I was wondering the same thing.

They surronded his house, made a ton of noise, no one could go in or out, and waited on the warrant.

Posted: 3/24/2006 9:48:23 AM EDT

[#15]

Where in Tennessee is this happening? Where is he being held?

Posted: 3/24/2006 9:48:56 AM EDT

[#16]

Quoted:
Clearly, they did have Probable cause for a warrant. That does not however prove guilt. It is the job of the police to investigate and present their findings. The word of a disgruntled former spouse is usually considered reliable information, because in many many cases in the past it has led to solving many crimes. I'm not saying this is the case in this particular situation, but it does happen with regularity. Now, was he drilling extra holes or not? That is really what the case will come down to and if he did make machine guns, where did they go? Lots unsaid here. I would not be quick to pass judgement either postive or negative without more facts which I'm sure will unfold in due time.

Yes, it has.
However, let's be realistic here.
First - the ATF is involved, so any claim of honesty, integrity, or investigatory skill goes out the window.
Second - the guy is a gun person. Women, esp. bitter ex-wives, like to hurt their ex-husbands.
They want to take away the things that they love - be it children, their car, or in this case, his guns.
He has probably bitched to her about the ATF, and how they jump the gun, so to speak, on even the allegation of impropriety.
So, I'm sure she decided she would cook his goose with this.

I wish.
You don't seem to know too much about the ATF.
The ATFs favorite thing to charge people with is "conspiracy" and "constructive intent"
This means, you don't have to actually have done anything, all they have to prove is that you COULD have done something, if you wanted.
In this case, milling machines, 0% lowers, and an exploded parts view of the M16 (which plenty of people have) leads to - constructive intent! MAGIC!
Another old ATF trick, muffler or PVC tubing, some tire washers - MAGIC! constructive intent to build a silencer.
Or they'll just use a more blatent method, like forcing your gun to malfunction and fire doubles (fires more than one shot! MAGIC! It's a machine gun!) or they'll just plant an auto sear.
Now I guess all they have to do is find some shoe strings in his workshop.

Posted: 3/24/2006 9:49:03 AM EDT

[#17]

This needs a tack!

It could happen to any of us...

I'd be on the horn to JPFO too on this, not to mention NRA, GOA, etc...

Stupid vindictive bitch!

Posted: 3/24/2006 9:49:33 AM EDT

[#18]

Quoted:
Where in Tennessee is this happening? Where is he being held?

Maryville, TN. Unsure where he's physically located.

Posted: 3/24/2006 9:49:43 AM EDT

[#19]

Wow.

You guys ever hear of a "legislative catalyst"?

Its used when the "powers that be" want to outlaw a particular practice, but don't have enough "juice" to do so without an "incident"

I'd say that the .gov is wanting to finally shut down privately manuractured guns on 80% receivers.

They make a big case out of this, probably with lots of reporting on how "many" unfinished "assault rifles" this guy has in his "arsenal" and when the ultimate finding, after he is bankrupted, is that he didn't do a single thing illegle, the politicians slam their fists on the table and say "well this SHOULD be illegal."

Posted: 3/24/2006 9:50:15 AM EDT

[#20]

Quoted:
Shoot-N-Scoot

Post Count ::
1721

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Last Login Date ::
3/23/2006 5:59:53 PM EST

Last Post Date ::
3/23/2006 6:32:15 PM EST

And you don't think for a moment that the ATF won't go to all the sites on his computer? and check the email/Im's there? they would be lax if they didn't.

Posted: 3/24/2006 9:50:18 AM EDT

[#21]

tag

Posted: 3/24/2006 9:51:06 AM EDT

[#22]

Quoted:
Similar type BS has happend to a couple people I know. The ATF doesn't make a raid and leave without finding something. Since they didn't find any completed evidence they went with this "constructive intent" or "conspiracy to". Since Shoot-n-Scoot has a milling machine if any of the "drawings" the ATF took were detailed schematics on an auto sear they will just claim he was conspiring to build a machinegun since he had the materials, had the machine, had the firearm, and had the knowledge. I wish him the best of luck because he will need it.

The relevant language of the statute says a machine gun is a "combination of parts designed and intended, for use in converting a weapon into a machinegun, and any combination of parts from which a machinegun can be assembled if such parts are in the possession or under the control of the person." 18 U.S.C. 921(a)(23)/.

I don't think you can say that a milling machine and a steel blank are a "combination of parts" from which a machinegun can be assembled or they could bust anyone for having a file and a hunk of metal from an old axe blade.

Posted: 3/24/2006 9:51:22 AM EDT

[#23]

Sounds like tha ATF if fuckin' up just like they did at the gunshow in Richmond last year. They really showed their asses there. Nothin' but a bunch of dumb fucks.

Posted: 3/24/2006 9:52:14 AM EDT

[#24]

tag for updates

Posted: 3/24/2006 9:53:44 AM EDT

[#25]

Hooooollllyyyyy fuck.

(calls wife to say he loves her and all the guns were lost during a recent boating outing).

You can't trust anyone. If they want to hurt you they will. Looks like SNS ex found the right people for the job.

ATF can basically call a drill press and an AR15 constructive intent to do "something" illegal.

Good googly moogly....

Posted: 3/24/2006 9:55:07 AM EDT

[#26]

tag

Posted: 3/24/2006 9:55:16 AM EDT

[#27]

Quoted:
Even if he's found innocent, they just bankrupted him.

That's how it works.

Exactly! You may beat the rap, but you will never beat the ride.

Posted: 3/24/2006 9:55:33 AM EDT

[#28]

Quoted:
Wow. There ought to be significant legal implications for the ex when this guy has been cleared. Lying to the feds to screw with her ex-husband?

True, but she'll probably say that she "thought" they were machine guns.

Posted: 3/24/2006 9:56:04 AM EDT

[#29]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Clearly, they did have Probable cause for a warrant. That does not however prove guilt. It is the job of the police to investigate and present their findings. The word of a disgruntled former spouse is usually considered reliable information, because in many many cases in the past it has led to solving many crimes. I'm not saying this is the case in this particular situation, but it does happen with regularity. Now, was he drilling extra holes or not? That is really what the case will come down to and if he did make machine guns, where did they go? Lots unsaid here. I would not be quick to pass judgement either postive or negative without more facts which I'm sure will unfold in due time.

Yes, it has.
However, let's be realistic here.
First - the ATF is involved, so any claim of honesty, integrity, or investigatory skill goes out the window.
Second - the guy is a gun person. Women, esp. bitter ex-wives, like to hurt their ex-husbands.
They want to take away the things that they love - be it children, their car, or in this case, his guns.
He has probably bitched to her about the ATF, and how they jump the gun, so to speak, on even the allegation of impropriety.
So, I'm sure she decided she would cook his goose with this.

I wish.
You don't seem to know too much about the ATF.
The ATFs favorite thing to charge people with is "conspiracy" and "constructive intent"
This means, you don't have to actually have done anything, all they have to prove is that you COULD have done something, if you wanted.
In this case, milling machines, 0% lowers, and an exploded parts view of the M16 (which plenty of people have) leads to - constructive intent! MAGIC!
Another old ATF trick, muffler or PVC tubing, some tire washers - MAGIC! constructive intent to build a silencer.
Or they'll just use a more blatent method, like forcing your gun to malfunction and fire doubles (fires more than one shot! MAGIC! It's a machine gun!) or they'll just plant an auto sear.
Now I guess all they have to do is find some shoe strings in his workshop.

I personally know and have worked with many ATFE agents over the years. I have found all that I know to be upstanding. Now, I also know that manufacturing machineguns without a license is one of their really really big ones. I doubt however given that they are under extreme congressional scrutiny right now, that they are going to manufacture evidence. Time will tell and the facts will come out, then we will know.

Posted: 3/24/2006 9:56:19 AM EDT

[#30]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Where in Tennessee is this happening? Where is he being held?

Maryville, TN. Unsure where he's physically located.

Just south of Knoxville

Posted: 3/24/2006 9:56:34 AM EDT

[#31]

Tag,

I swear. With all the borders to guard, they spend time on this crap.

Posted: 3/24/2006 9:57:37 AM EDT

[#32]

Milling machine + AR15 = constructive intent

The judge needs to throw this out or a lot of people are in trouble.

Posted: 3/24/2006 9:58:51 AM EDT

[#33]

An ex wife telling the ATF that her former was making machine guns is probably enough probable cause to get a warrent. Her motive is not relevant. After all, a lot of warrants are obtained from confidenial snitches with more of an ax to grind than even an ex wife.

The officer would have to ask her some question on the details to determine if she has any idea what a machine gun looks like or if she is just making it up to get her husband. Once they heard milling machine and "m-16s" that is probaly all they need to hear.

Posted: 3/24/2006 10:00:17 AM EDT

[#34]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Where in Tennessee is this happening? Where is he being held?

Maryville, TN. Unsure where he's physically located.

Just south of Knoxville

I know, I'm in Maryville. I meant physically where he's being held.

Posted: 3/24/2006 10:01:52 AM EDT

[#35]

Quoted:
I doubt however given that they are under extreme congressional scrutiny right now, that they are going to manufacture evidence. Time will tell and the facts will come out, then we will know.

Really? I mean honestly, what harm has ever come to them from congressional scrutiny? Anyone of any importance ever been fired over it?

Posted: 3/24/2006 10:03:02 AM EDT

[#36]

So, is the moral of the story to never get married, or just to never get divorced?

Posted: 3/24/2006 10:03:09 AM EDT

[#37]

Quoted:
Quoted:
I doubt however given that they are under extreme congressional scrutiny right now, that they are going to manufacture evidence. Time will tell and the facts will come out, then we will know.

Really? I mean honestly, what harm has ever come to them from congressional scrutiny? Anyone of any importance ever been fired over it?

Yes. The thing in Tx didn't play well as I recall.

Posted: 3/24/2006 10:03:27 AM EDT

[#38]

Requesting a TACK

Posted: 3/24/2006 10:04:28 AM EDT

[#39]

Also, If she lived there with him as he was doing said illegal activities yet said nothing at the time-wouldnt she be an accomplice?

Posted: 3/24/2006 10:05:35 AM EDT

[#40]

shitty

Posted: 3/24/2006 10:07:24 AM EDT

[#41]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Where in Tennessee is this happening? Where is he being held?

Maryville, TN. Unsure where he's physically located.

Just south of Knoxville

I know, I'm in Maryville. I meant physically where he's being held.

Sorry, old and did not notice it was you. You should know where you are.....

Posted: 3/24/2006 10:07:48 AM EDT

[#42]

tag

Posted: 3/24/2006 10:08:07 AM EDT

[#43]

Tag

Posted: 3/24/2006 10:08:51 AM EDT

[#44]

tag

Posted: 3/24/2006 10:09:40 AM EDT

[#45]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I doubt however given that they are under extreme congressional scrutiny right now, that they are going to manufacture evidence. Time will tell and the facts will come out, then we will know.

Really? I mean honestly, what harm has ever come to them from congressional scrutiny? Anyone of any importance ever been fired over it?

Yes. The thing in Tx didn't play well as I recall.

How many ATF agents were fired after Waco?
How many ATF agents were fired after Ruby Ridge?

Posted: 3/24/2006 10:09:56 AM EDT

[#46]

tag

Posted: 3/24/2006 10:10:54 AM EDT

[#47]

tag for updates

Posted: 3/24/2006 10:12:37 AM EDT

[#48]

tag

Posted: 3/24/2006 10:13:22 AM EDT

[#49]

tag

Posted: 3/24/2006 10:13:55 AM EDT

[#50]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I doubt however given that they are under extreme congressional scrutiny right now, that they are going to manufacture evidence. Time will tell and the facts will come out, then we will know.

Really? I mean honestly, what harm has ever come to them from congressional scrutiny? Anyone of any importance ever been fired over it?

Yes. The thing in Tx didn't play well as I recall.

How many ATF agents were fired after Waco?
How many ATF agents were fired after Ruby Ridge?

Perhaps rather than arguing who got fired nearly a decade ago, we could just wait and see what the outcome is in this matter. I believe however that a director and a couple of higher ups were replaced.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - ATF goes into action in TN and arrests arfcommer Shoot-n-Scoot (Page 2 of 20)

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