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Posted: 8/9/2016 11:24:42 PM EDT
[#1]
Muh 7N6
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Posted: 8/9/2016 11:27:09 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
ATF is a joke. Where is this 5.45 handgun anyway? My understanding was it was Polish and never imported.  any AK-74 pistol? such as a krinkov or similar? |
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Posted: 8/9/2016 11:28:06 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You guys are operating heavily on feelings. He's never said anything about cutting BATFE funding. He's got my vote and he's the most pro-gun candidate, but some of you guys really live in a fantasy world thinking MG amnesty, dirt cheap imports, and so on. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: If we can get Trump in there, I have a feeling that the ATF is going to suffer massive founding cuts. Many here will vote Clinton/Other. [url]http://www.ar15.com/images/smilies/icon_smile_dissapprove.gif You guys are operating heavily on feelings. He's never said anything about cutting BATFE funding. He's got my vote and he's the most pro-gun candidate, but some of you guys really live in a fantasy world thinking MG amnesty, dirt cheap imports, and so on. take your nevertrump stuff and start another thread if you want to argue about it, otherwise you are just doing it deliberately to derail this one |
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Posted: 8/9/2016 11:29:18 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
take your nevertrump stuff and start another thread if you want to argue about it, otherwise you are just doing it deliberately to derail this one Quote HistoryQuoted:
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If we can get Trump in there, I have a feeling that the ATF is going to suffer massive founding cuts. Many here will vote Clinton/Other. [url]http://www.ar15.com/images/smilies/icon_smile_dissapprove.gif You guys are operating heavily on feelings. He's never said anything about cutting BATFE funding. He's got my vote and he's the most pro-gun candidate, but some of you guys really live in a fantasy world thinking MG amnesty, dirt cheap imports, and so on. take your nevertrump stuff and start another thread if you want to argue about it, otherwise you are just doing it deliberately to derail this one You get triggered so easily, centimeter |
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Posted: 8/9/2016 11:32:37 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Unfortunately, the Russians measure from the lands and in the U.S. from the grooves, so it's actually > .22 cal. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Isn't 5.45 technically smaller than .22 caliber, more like .21 caliber? The second para in that legal description says larger than .22 caliber. Unfortunately, the Russians measure from the lands and in the U.S. from the grooves, so it's actually > .22 cal. the bullet diameter is literally .220" 5.56 is .224" |
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Posted: 8/9/2016 11:33:36 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You get triggered so easily, centimeter Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: take your nevertrump stuff and start another thread if you want to argue about it, otherwise you are just doing it deliberately to derail this one You get triggered so easily, centimeter I see you don't mind trying to derail it, so why don't you start another thread about it and take your arguing out off this one, and keep this one clean |
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Posted: 8/9/2016 11:38:29 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
they're basing it on (a misreading of, imo) the 1st section: A projectile or projectile core which may be used in a handgun and which is constructed entirely (excluding the presence of traces of other substances) from one or a combination of tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass, bronze, beryllium copper, or depleted uranium; or Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Isn't 5.45 technically smaller than .22 caliber, more like .21 caliber? The second para in that legal description says larger than .22 caliber. Yes. But if the ATF can ignore the "designed and intended for handguns," they can ignore the "under .22 caliber" exception, too. They're fucking assholes. they're basing it on (a misreading of, imo) the 1st section: A projectile or projectile core which may be used in a handgun and which is constructed entirely (excluding the presence of traces of other substances) from one or a combination of tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass, bronze, beryllium copper, or depleted uranium; or That's a crap excuse, because 7N6 has lead in it, too.
And regardless, depending on the individual bullet, it's between .219, and .221 in diameter. Close enough that the people who wrote the damn law would exempt it. |
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Posted: 8/9/2016 11:41:18 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I see you don't mind trying to derail it, so why don't you start another thread about it and take your arguing out off this one, and keep this one clean Quote HistoryQuoted:
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take your nevertrump stuff and start another thread if you want to argue about it, otherwise you are just doing it deliberately to derail this one You get triggered so easily, centimeter I see you don't mind trying to derail it, so why don't you start another thread about it and take your arguing out off this one, and keep this one clean You think this thread is clean? Lol. You should read it. |
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Posted: 8/9/2016 11:50:08 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: IIRC it was a request to import a 5.45 pistol that still has not been imported. Someone with a better memory care to chime in? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: ATF is a joke. Where is this 5.45 handgun anyway? My understanding was it was Polish and never imported. AK74 pistol? Yeah, don't even go there...because some manufacturer had to do it just because they could.... And that's what triggered the ban, IIRC. IIRC it was a request to import a 5.45 pistol that still has not been imported. Someone with a better memory care to chime in? there was a company in the u.s. that was going to be offering a pistol in 5.45x39. they were going to be making it, even though a lot of people were telling them not to, because it would cause the reclasification, and I think they withdrew it, but it may have already been too late? edit - references http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2014/04/robert-farago/atf-bans-importation-of-russian-made-5-45x39-armor-piercing-ammo/ 5.45x39 ammo WTF just happened ?!? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2ntsgd55k0 in the end, I think obama wanted ammo banned, and the atf just made something up to ban it. |
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Posted: 8/9/2016 11:59:16 PM EDT
[#10]
How much do sealed tins go for now?
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Posted: 8/10/2016 12:35:26 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How much do sealed tins go for now? The real legit 7N6 is more accurate and has better terminal performance than any of the current commercial offerings... You just gotta clean after shooting ammo with corrosive primers. |
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Posted: 8/10/2016 1:06:51 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You guys are operating heavily on feelings. He's never said anything about cutting BATFE funding. He's got my vote and he's the most pro-gun candidate, but some of you guys really live in a fantasy world thinking MG amnesty, dirt cheap imports, and so on. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
If we can get Trump in there, I have a feeling that the ATF is going to suffer massive founding cuts. Many here will vote Clinton/Other. [url]http://www.ar15.com/images/smilies/icon_smile_dissapprove.gif You guys are operating heavily on feelings. He's never said anything about cutting BATFE funding. He's got my vote and he's the most pro-gun candidate, but some of you guys really live in a fantasy world thinking MG amnesty, dirt cheap imports, and so on. This. He isn't going to do any of that shit. At best he will be not worse than Clinton. Probably. I'll be voting Trump. |
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Posted: 8/10/2016 1:23:28 AM EDT
[#13]
You are a good American. Unlike whoever at the ATF pulled this crap.
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Posted: 8/10/2016 4:31:52 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Isn't 5.45 technically smaller than .22 caliber, more like .21 caliber? The second para in that legal description says larger than .22 caliber. 0.2145669 Inconvenient facts will be ignored. |
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Posted: 8/10/2016 5:58:04 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Technically, it's .2145669291338583 caliber, but hornady couldn't fit that on the box. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Isn't 5.45 technically smaller than .22 caliber, more like .21 caliber? The second para in that legal description says larger than .22 caliber. Technically, it's .2145669291338583 caliber, but hornady couldn't fit that on the box. Exactly, plug in 5.45 on the right and you'll see the conversion and that it's not .22 caliber. Fuckers. http://www.translatorscafe.com/cafe/EN/units-converter/typography/9-4/inch-millimeter/ |
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Posted: 8/10/2016 6:10:49 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Also in order for it to be imported, they had to ask permission from guess who? Also I don't think they were ever imported were they? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
ATF is a joke. Where is this 5.45 handgun anyway? My understanding was it was Polish and never imported. Also in order for it to be imported, they had to ask permission from guess who? Also I don't think they were ever imported were they? Domestically made AK-74 pistols, from a now banned member who used to troll the police in his local. Many people asked him not to make them top preven 7N6 from being banned (This thread in the Archives is about that Douche) Another AK-74 pistol manufacturer: Thread on it in the Archives (Members Only) Archived thread about a 5.45 AR-15 Pistol |
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Posted: 8/10/2016 6:32:47 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Domestically made AK-74 pistols, from a now banned member who used to troll the police in his local. Many people asked him not to make them top preven 7N6 from being banned (This thread in the Archives is about that Douche) Another AK-74 pistol manufacturer: Thread on it in the Archives (Members Only) Archived thread about a 5.45 AR-15 Pistol Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
ATF is a joke. Where is this 5.45 handgun anyway? My understanding was it was Polish and never imported. Also in order for it to be imported, they had to ask permission from guess who? Also I don't think they were ever imported were they? Domestically made AK-74 pistols, from a now banned member who used to troll the police in his local. Many people asked him not to make them top preven 7N6 from being banned (This thread in the Archives is about that Douche) Another AK-74 pistol manufacturer: Thread on it in the Archives (Members Only) Archived thread about a 5.45 AR-15 Pistol Mr. Orange tip
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Posted: 8/10/2016 11:09:51 PM EDT
[#18]
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Posted: 8/11/2016 12:06:18 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuote History[U.S. District Judge] Coughenour noted that P.W. Arms never disputed the bullets can pierce body armor  Kind of like any rifle cartridge in the world when you shoot it at soft armor. Maybe that wasn't part of the argument because the federal definition of "armor-piercing ammunition" has nothing whatsoever to do with its actual performance against armor.
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Posted: 8/11/2016 12:12:52 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Kind of like any rifle cartridge in the world when you shoot it at soft armor. Maybe that wasn't part of the argument because the federal definition of "armor-piercing ammunition" has nothing whatsoever to do with its actual performance against armor.Quote HistoryQuoted:
[U.S. District Judge] Coughenour noted that P.W. Arms never disputed the bullets can pierce body armor Kind of like any rifle cartridge in the world when you shoot it at soft armor. Maybe that wasn't part of the argument because the federal definition of "armor-piercing ammunition" has nothing whatsoever to do with its actual performance against armor.Thank you. Exactly. Is the timing on this appeal coincidental? |
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Posted: 8/11/2016 12:41:12 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Exactly, plug in 5.45 on the right and you'll see the conversion and that it's not .22 caliber. Fuckers. http://www.translatorscafe.com/cafe/EN/units-converter/typography/9-4/inch-millimeter/ Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Isn't 5.45 technically smaller than .22 caliber, more like .21 caliber? The second para in that legal description says larger than .22 caliber. Technically, it's .2145669291338583 caliber, but hornady couldn't fit that on the box. Exactly, plug in 5.45 on the right and you'll see the conversion and that it's not .22 caliber. Fuckers. http://www.translatorscafe.com/cafe/EN/units-converter/typography/9-4/inch-millimeter/ ....the bullet is 5.60mm, which is .2205in. So, technically, by the slimmest of margins, it's greater than .22cal (and definitely equal by any reasonable standard). |
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Posted: 8/11/2016 12:55:18 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If we can get Trump in there, I have a feeling that the ATF is going to suffer massive founding cuts. Many here will vote Clinton/Other.    |
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Posted: 8/11/2016 1:09:30 AM EDT
[#23]
ATF is a criminal enterprise. All ATF agents are criminals and traitors.
Vichy traitors. |
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Posted: 8/11/2016 7:25:33 AM EDT
[#24]
That's because the request came from the White House.
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Posted: 8/11/2016 7:33:10 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I like how they conveniently ignore the definition of prohibited ammunition where is it states it is 'designed and intended to be used in a handgun". 5.45 was never designed nor intended to be a handgun round. This. This shit pisses me off. It's about the design of the cartridge, not the design of some firearm produced decades later. The 5.45x39 round was "designed and intended to be used" in a rifle. Period. |
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Posted: 8/11/2016 7:58:52 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
....the bullet is 5.60mm, which is .2205in. So, technically, by the slimmest of margins, it's greater than .22cal (and definitely equal by any reasonable standard). Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Isn't 5.45 technically smaller than .22 caliber, more like .21 caliber? The second para in that legal description says larger than .22 caliber. Technically, it's .2145669291338583 caliber, but hornady couldn't fit that on the box. Exactly, plug in 5.45 on the right and you'll see the conversion and that it's not .22 caliber. Fuckers. http://www.translatorscafe.com/cafe/EN/units-converter/typography/9-4/inch-millimeter/ ....the bullet is 5.60mm, which is .2205in. So, technically, by the slimmest of margins, it's greater than .22cal (and definitely equal by any reasonable standard). It doesn't matter what the bullet diameter is, because ATF is using the first definition of armor-piercing, not the second. A projectile or projectile core which may be used in a handgun and which is constructed entirely (excluding the presence of traces of other substances) from one or a combination of tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass, bronze, beryllium copper, or depleted uranium; or A full jacketed projectile larger than .22 caliber designed and intended for use in a handgun and whose jacket has a weight of more than 25 percent of the total weight of the projectile. Bullet diameter is only important in the second definition, covering projectiles whose jacket weight is more than 25% of the total projectile weight. A .17 caliber bullet could still be armor-piercing if it meets the first definition. Likewise, the term "designed and intended" for use in a handgun only applies in this second definition. The word ATF is hanging their hat on here is "may" in "which may be used in a handgun. This is bad law, because anything "may" be used in any kind of firearm, if only somebody builds one. Here's a T/C pistol chambered in 30-06, yet I don't hear anybody up in arms over M2 AP being a cartridge which "may" be used in a handgun. However, I do think they are stretching the definition a bit by treating each material of a projectile core as its own separate core. Well, of course each section of the core will be constructed entirely of one material, if that's how you define it! But if you take the stance that a projectile like 7N6 or M855 has only one core, unless specifically divided by the construction of the bullet (like a Nosler Partition, for example), then you can no longer say that the core is constructed entirely of one of the listed materials. IMO, this is the more correct interpretation, because it gives meaning to the word entirely, while in the former interpretation, "entirely" is redundant when applied to each material in a projectile core as its own core. But then you can't ban them, so what fun is that? |
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Posted: 8/11/2016 8:22:05 AM EDT
[#27]
What's to say that the ATF agent didn't go to high school with someone under cover with CBP, and that was the only avenue the UC had?
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Posted: 8/11/2016 8:25:04 AM EDT
[#28]
Something like that............I've heard it compared to .221 Fireball
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Isn't 5.45 technically smaller than .22 caliber, more like .21 caliber? The second para in that legal description says larger than .22 caliber. |
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Posted: 8/11/2016 8:27:55 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Customs and Border Patrol. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Possible stupid question, but what does 'CBP' stand for? And what does this ultimately mean? Customs and Border Patrol. Customs and Border Protection not Patrol. Border Patrol falls under this agency though |
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Posted: 8/11/2016 8:35:48 AM EDT
[#30]
to all the retards here that write the ATF about stupid letters this is the proper way to write a letter to the ATF. I wonder if this atf agent was hoarding some of this 7n6 to neckbeard.
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Posted: 8/11/2016 8:09:19 PM EDT
[#31]
Never mind.
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Posted: 8/11/2016 8:19:33 PM EDT
[#32]
Yeah bitches, bring the good stuff back home!
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Posted: 8/11/2016 8:42:39 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Domestically made AK-74 pistols, from a now banned member who used to troll the police in his local. Many people asked him not to make them top preven 7N6 from being banned (This thread in the Archives is about that Douche) Another AK-74 pistol manufacturer: Thread on it in the Archives (Members Only) Archived thread about a 5.45 AR-15 Pistol Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
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ATF is a joke. Where is this 5.45 handgun anyway? My understanding was it was Polish and never imported. Also in order for it to be imported, they had to ask permission from guess who? Also I don't think they were ever imported were they? Domestically made AK-74 pistols, from a now banned member who used to troll the police in his local. Many people asked him not to make them top preven 7N6 from being banned (This thread in the Archives is about that Douche) Another AK-74 pistol manufacturer: Thread on it in the Archives (Members Only) Archived thread about a 5.45 AR-15 Pistol I thought it was a Polish Beryl type pistol like this but in 5.45? 
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Posted: 8/11/2016 11:56:43 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I thought it was a Polish Beryl type pistol like this but in 5.45? http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a291/elliot308/SHOT%20Vegass/fp/MiniArchersemipistolM4mag.jpg Quote HistoryQuoted:
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ATF is a joke. Where is this 5.45 handgun anyway? My understanding was it was Polish and never imported. Also in order for it to be imported, they had to ask permission from guess who? Also I don't think they were ever imported were they? Domestically made AK-74 pistols, from a now banned member who used to troll the police in his local. Many people asked him not to make them top preven 7N6 from being banned (This thread in the Archives is about that Douche) Another AK-74 pistol manufacturer: Thread on it in the Archives (Members Only) Archived thread about a 5.45 AR-15 Pistol I thought it was a Polish Beryl type pistol like this but in 5.45? http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a291/elliot308/SHOT%20Vegass/fp/MiniArchersemipistolM4mag.jpg Yes |
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Posted: 8/13/2016 12:40:11 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Where did the 2.9 million rounds of ammunition go that customs was holding? Importer was prolly told to remove it from the country, export it back home or anywhere that would accept it ......Africa? China? Venezuela? Costs thousands to import, and now thousands more to export it, not to mention other fees associated with it sitting in a warehouse. ATF is full O' sheeeit on this. CBPs job is not to determine bullet classification(ATFs job), only importability. CBP would request ATF to identify the bullet and its legalities. |
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Posted: 8/13/2016 12:49:05 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
so there was no actual testing other than some really shitty work with pliers . Zero science involved. I know someone who is going to love this . 
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Posted: 8/13/2016 12:56:26 AM EDT
[#37]
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