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Link Posted: 10/30/2009 3:15:17 PM EDT
[#1]
my guess it's the first time you went there, they opened up the manual on what is recommended at 75k and put that on your work order.

tires for your 16" you can get at wal mart or costco for $75 each for 55k treads, are your tires down to the marker knob in between the treads?

air filter you do yourself/plugs

unless your having fuel issues leave that one till later.

timing belt is the important one, wheres your valves at if the belt goes? do water pump at same time. post ad in hometown forum (sunday mechanic $45 hour, buy them some bullets and take them shooting ber and cheeseburger after they repair).
Link Posted: 10/30/2009 3:16:24 PM EDT
[#2]
Link Posted: 10/30/2009 3:17:43 PM EDT
[#3]
First, I do this for a living. And yes, we charge more for parts than they get at Autozone.

You don't "need" all of that. Unless the tires are worn out. But it is all recommended maintenance. And for around here, the price isn't too far out of line.
If you plan to keep the car for 200k, do the timing belt and pump, get other estimates on the tires, and do the rest one at a time every oil change.
If you don't really care how long the car lasts, don't do any of it and trade the car in when it breaks. It should still make it to 125k, it just may not run as well as it does now.

If you still aren't sure, get a second opinion. Go with the place that gives you the best service. Just like rifles, cheaper isn't always better.
Link Posted: 10/30/2009 3:18:43 PM EDT
[#4]
Quoted:
$600 for a timing belt/balance shaft belt, tensioner and water pump, on that engine, that's a tad high IMO especially considering that they're using aftermarket parts.  We can do that service for like $500, if I remember right, with OEM parts.  Call around to Mitsubishi dealers in the area, they/we were/are on a promo this past summer, menu pricing timing belt services for like $199.99 without the water pump and tensioner.  

Although on the first timing belt service (60K miles or so), I usually leave the water pump and tensioner alone, and recommend it at the second service.  The water pump on that engine is not driven by the timing belt, it is under the timing cover however they don't really leak or fail at such a low mileage.  Same with the tensioner.  At 75K miles, I'd do just the timing belt and balance shaft belt if I were working on it, and inspect the tensioner and water pump while it's apart and recommend/replace as necessary.

The cooling system flush, let your judgment be your guide there.  With the change in the seasons coming in, I'd drain/fill it personally.  There shouldn't be any need to use any cleaners or flushes at this mileage if everything else is in proper working order.

Avoid the "fuel system cleaners" and such, fuels nowadays really have all the cleaners and such in them you need.  At 70K+ miles, I'd pull the plugs and inspect them, and replace as needed.  That's about it for a tune up.  Oh, and a PCV valve.

Brake fluid is hygroscopic, it absorbs moisture, and over time this lowers the fluid's boiling point, resulting in a mushy, shitty feeling pedal.  I can understand the reasoning behind recommending that, but FWIW, I haven't flushed the brake fluid once in my F150 in five years and 90,000 miles.  I really should flush mine, but my brakes feel and stop fine right now.  Your call on that one, my personal experience on both sides of the fence sees no real error with doing it or not at this point.

For plugs, I know the Firestones around here use Bosch Platinums.  That's a no-go in most everything I've worked on, I'd recommend using the OEM NGK or Denso plug for best results.

Tires, alignment, I second the Tire Rack and an indy store.  The Tire Rack is good peoples, they'll take good care of you.

The transmission service, I've seen some torque converter shudder when using anything other than Mitsubishi's SP3 transmission fluid.  If you're gonna do the transmission, I'd strongly recommend using SP3.  It's something like $7/quart list price at a dealer, which works out to about 15 dollars more than what Firestone is charging you for their fluid.

I'd call your local Mitsubishi dealer and comparison shop them.  Our reps are pushing discounting and price matching, so they may be able to beat that price quoted.  I know the outfit I work for can (or would), because frankly, we need the work.  

For comparison's sake, when I get into work tomorrow, I'll take their estimate, punch it into our system and give you a quote for doing all those services at a Mitsubishi dealer, if you'd like.


Thank you.
I will, however, be calling and berating you tomorrow for not flushing your brake fluid.

Every 6 months on the street cars, 1 year on the truck, and every event on the race cars.
Link Posted: 10/30/2009 3:20:00 PM EDT
[#5]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
They are raping you on the parts. Timing belt,water pump, tensioners, air filter, plugs, are almost double the price that anyone can buy them for at a parts store and these places would get a discount  off of the "walk in" price.

Labor seems high too.


Of course the parts price is high. If they don't make money on the parts, and the part fails, they have to eat the labor on replacing it. On the rare occasion that I take in side work, I typically charge about 80% mark up on parts. I guarantee my work. I used to be willing to use carry in parts, and learned the hard way. A friend brought his car to me to fix, he was having money problems and needed the car for work, so I agreed to help him out. I took the car in, figured out what was wrong, and priced good quality parts, he bitched about the price on the parts, went to Autozone and bought a lifetime warranty part. I out it in, everything was good, for six months. The Autozone part went bad, my friend told me "no big deal, the part has a lifetime warranty, it won't cost you anything to replace it again". It did cost me alright, I pulled the part, took it to Autozone, got a free replacement, and used up the rest of my day off putting the part on the car. It also cost me the trust of a friend, I told him I wanted to be paid for doing the job again, and he got all pissy, saying he had already paid me, and the part had a lifetime warranty, so it wouldn't cost me anything. It did cost me, it cost me the better part of a day off, it cost me the aggravation of working on an old shitbox for free, and it cost me the trust of a friend who felt I had tried to rip him off. A mechanic who doesn't make money on parts isn't going to be around for long. A customer who insists on using crappy aftermarket parts, and poorly rebuilt parts is never going to find a trustworthy mechanic. The only mechanics who don't make anything on parts are guys who are so shady, that they know they aren't going to do any free rework ever, or so inexperienced that they do not understand the reasons for installing good parts, and the need to charge for parts, if you don't you will lose money.


I happily install customer supplied parts.
They sign a waiver that says "No Warranty".



Edit: The sheer amount of ignorance in this thread makes my head hurt.

"Brake flush is not needed."
"Only replace the water pump if it's leaking"
"Plugs last 100k."
"You don't need to change coolant."


Edit 2:
Buy a shop manual and some tools. Do some yourself. Pay a competent independent to do the TB/WP/BSB/Rollers. Get the tires done at a good independent. Order from the Tire Rack.


Most car threads in GD are like pissing up a rope.


Must... Not.. Let... Head... Explode...
Link Posted: 10/30/2009 3:24:06 PM EDT
[#6]
I just got the water pump and timing belt replaced on my car. Places wanted 700 dollars for it. I found a family friend who's a mechanic who did it for 330 w/new thermostat.
Link Posted: 10/30/2009 3:25:34 PM EDT
[#7]
Link Posted: 10/30/2009 3:26:58 PM EDT
[#8]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Brake fluid is hygroscopic, it absorbs moisture, and over time this lowers the fluid's boiling point, resulting in a mushy, shitty feeling pedal.  I can understand the reasoning behind recommending that, but FWIW, I haven't flushed the brake fluid once in my F150 in five years and 90,000 miles.  I really should flush mine, but my brakes feel and stop fine right now.  Your call on that one, my personal experience on both sides of the fence sees no real error with doing it or not at this point.


Thank you.
I will, however, be calling and berating you tomorrow for not flushing your brake fluid.

Every 6 months on the street cars, 1 year on the truck, and every event on the race cars.


It's one of those "I've been meaning to do it..." things I keep pushing aside in the name of other people's cars.  Honest.  I swear!


I've been needing to do valve cover gaskets on the M for a year.

Edit: And I still haven't done the balljoints on the truck. It's so, well, big.
Link Posted: 10/30/2009 3:29:53 PM EDT
[#9]
Link Posted: 10/30/2009 3:34:12 PM EDT
[#10]
Quoted:
my guess it's the first time you went there, they opened up the manual on what is recommended at 75k and put that on your work order.


You are 100% correct. That is what they love to do.

Last time I went there for a free oil change (wife has a hook-up for the coupons), they said I needed new pads and a tranny flush.

The tranny was about 4 months old and the brakes were less than a week old. He said they didn't inspect a thing and just went directly off the mileage.
Link Posted: 10/30/2009 3:42:13 PM EDT
[#11]
Are you serious?!

1. Water pump:  Unless its dumping on the ground it ain't worth it.  If it needs topped off ever few weeks, it still doesn't need it.  Half the crap on there isn't neccesary with a replacement anyway!

2.  Radiator flush: SCAM!  So they wanna replace your water pump AND charge you for the antifreeze?!  Ok so maybe tack on the antifreeze with the waterpump IF you go that route... They're charging $55 labor to do what the F(*& ever?  Its already drained for the water pump!

3.  Air filter:  Take a look at if for yourself and check the price and change it yourself if its neccesary.  It takes 30 seconds.

4.  Fuel System tune up:  Did you read that?!  They're charging $75 to dump a bottle of wonder juice in your tank.  

5.  Brake flush:  SCAM!  Did it stop when you drove it home?  Its probably fine if it did.  Unless its got water in it or its severly discolored, its fine.

6.  Ignition:  If you've never changed your plugs they're toast.  I don't know how tough it is to get at the firewall side of your engine but you should be able to do this yourself.  

7.  Oil change:  Go for that one if its due.

8.  Tires:  Look at them yourself.  If they're worn out get them replaced.  Its not bad on the price.  Use the old penny test.  

9.  Alignment:  Might was well get it done if you're replacing the tires.

10.  Tranny flush:  SCAM!  When will people realize these are bogus?  

So if I were you I'd find a new mechanic!!!
Link Posted: 10/30/2009 3:46:43 PM EDT
[#12]
It's high.  Get at least one more estimate.  Firestone is arguably OK for tires, but not for anything else.



Yeah, they have to remove the water pump to change the timing belt, and maybe replacing the water pump at that time is a good idea––but it's certainly not a requirement.



$33 for an air filter?  I know you can do better than that price and replacing it is a task anybody can DIY.



I would not flush the brakes - that's something that will (or at least should) be done when you get new pads/rotors etc.



Fuel system "tune ups" are a joke, IMO.



If you have not been using synthetic oil, now is not the time to change.  If you have been using synthetic oil, keep it up.
Link Posted: 10/30/2009 4:04:47 PM EDT
[#13]
Quoted:
Are you serious?!

1. Water pump:  Unless its dumping on the ground it ain't worth it.  If it needs topped off ever few weeks, it still doesn't need it.  Half the crap on there isn't neccesary with a replacement anyway!

2.  Radiator flush: SCAM!  So they wanna replace your water pump AND charge you for the antifreeze?!  Ok so maybe tack on the antifreeze with the waterpump IF you go that route... They're charging $55 labor to do what the F(*& ever?  Its already drained for the water pump!

3.  Air filter:  Take a look at if for yourself and check the price and change it yourself if its neccesary.  It takes 30 seconds.

4.  Fuel System tune up:  Did you read that?!  They're charging $75 to dump a bottle of wonder juice in your tank.  

5.  Brake flush:  SCAM!  Did it stop when you drove it home?  Its probably fine if it did.  Unless its got water in it or its severly discolored, its fine.

6.  Ignition:  If you've never changed your plugs they're toast.  I don't know how tough it is to get at the firewall side of your engine but you should be able to do this yourself.  

7.  Oil change:  Go for that one if its due.

8.  Tires:  Look at them yourself.  If they're worn out get them replaced.  Its not bad on the price.  Use the old penny test.  

9.  Alignment:  Might was well get it done if you're replacing the tires.

10.  Tranny flush:  SCAM!  When will people realize these are bogus?  

So if I were you I'd find a new mechanic!!!


Well, partially correct.

1. It needs a timing belt. The water pump is timing belt driven. Replace it when you do the belt, or do them both again in a year when the pump starts leaking. Doing it now is good insurance.

2. It may not need flushed. I can't see the condition of the anti freeze from here. If it is still pretty pink, they can just replace the coolant they lose when they do the pump. I tend to assume other shops are as honest as we are. They may not be. So looking at the coolant first would be a good idea.

3. Most of our customers don't know they have an air filter. If you can change it, go ahead. If not, pay the extra 10 bucks to have them do it.

4. Our fuel system service is more than putting stuff in the tank. It costs about 20 bucks a treatment, and we disconnect the fuel system to do it. It really does take close to an hour. Like replacing plugs, if you wait until it runs bad, you waited too long. If our gas supply wasn't so crappy, this wouldn't be needed. Some parts of the country seem to do better than others. Cheap no name gas seems to make deposits worse.

5. I make a good living replacing brake parts that rusted from the inside. Calipers, wheel cylinders, and a few master cylinders with brown goo inside them. From the moisture in the brake fluid. Again, by the time the fluid gets dark, you waited too long.

6. Yes

7. Yes

8. Yes

9. Yes. I always recommend an alignment with new tires to keep them wearing even.

10. I prefer doing a filter and fluid change unless the fluid is really nasty. If it still looks fairly good, replacing the filter and half the fluid is good PM. Not as critical on Mitsu's as some other makes(Chrysler) but still a good idea.

The advantage of having a mechanic you trust is they will actually look at your car, and only suggest what you really need. Ask your friends and co workers if they have a shop they trust. Word of mouth is still the best way to find a good shop.
Link Posted: 10/30/2009 4:16:24 PM EDT
[#14]
If you go to some Mitsubishi forums, you should be able to find a recommended mechanic near you that will have lots of knowledge on the specific car and could do it for alot less than Firestone.
Link Posted: 10/30/2009 4:17:35 PM EDT
[#15]
The really fucked-up part is that half those jobs won't get done. You'll be charged for 'em, but the services won't actually be performed.
Link Posted: 10/30/2009 4:21:44 PM EDT
[#16]
Quoted:
Quoted:
They are raping you on the parts. Timing belt,water pump, tensioners, air filter, plugs, are almost double the price that anyone can buy them for at a parts store and these places would get a discount  off of the "walk in" price.

Labor seems high too.


Of course the parts price is high. If they don't make money on the parts, and the part fails, they have to eat the labor on replacing it. On the rare occasion that I take in side work, I typically charge about 80% mark up on parts. I guarantee my work. I used to be willing to use carry in parts, and learned the hard way. A friend brought his car to me to fix, he was having money problems and needed the car for work, so I agreed to help him out. I took the car in, figured out what was wrong, and priced good quality parts, he bitched about the price on the parts, went to Autozone and bought a lifetime warranty part. I out it in, everything was good, for six months. The Autozone part went bad, my friend told me "no big deal, the part has a lifetime warranty, it won't cost you anything to replace it again". It did cost me alright, I pulled the part, took it to Autozone, got a free replacement, and used up the rest of my day off putting the part on the car. It also cost me the trust of a friend, I told him I wanted to be paid for doing the job again, and he got all pissy, saying he had already paid me, and the part had a lifetime warranty, so it wouldn't cost me anything. It did cost me, it cost me the better part of a day off, it cost me the aggravation of working on an old shitbox for free, and it cost me the trust of a friend who felt I had tried to rip him off. A mechanic who doesn't make money on parts isn't going to be around for long. A customer who insists on using crappy aftermarket parts, and poorly rebuilt parts is never going to find a trustworthy mechanic. The only mechanics who don't make anything on parts are guys who are so shady, that they know they aren't going to do any free rework ever, or so inexperienced that they do not understand the reasons for installing good parts, and the need to charge for parts, if you don't you will lose money.


I concur.
Link Posted: 10/30/2009 4:25:53 PM EDT
[#17]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Are you serious?!

1. Water pump:  Unless its dumping on the ground it ain't worth it.  If it needs topped off ever few weeks, it still doesn't need it.  Half the crap on there isn't neccesary with a replacement anyway!

2.  Radiator flush: SCAM!  So they wanna replace your water pump AND charge you for the antifreeze?!  Ok so maybe tack on the antifreeze with the waterpump IF you go that route... They're charging $55 labor to do what the F(*& ever?  Its already drained for the water pump!

3.  Air filter:  Take a look at if for yourself and check the price and change it yourself if its neccesary.  It takes 30 seconds.

4.  Fuel System tune up:  Did you read that?!  They're charging $75 to dump a bottle of wonder juice in your tank.  

5.  Brake flush:  SCAM!  Did it stop when you drove it home?  Its probably fine if it did.  Unless its got water in it or its severly discolored, its fine.

6.  Ignition:  If you've never changed your plugs they're toast.  I don't know how tough it is to get at the firewall side of your engine but you should be able to do this yourself.  

7.  Oil change:  Go for that one if its due.

8.  Tires:  Look at them yourself.  If they're worn out get them replaced.  Its not bad on the price.  Use the old penny test.  

9.  Alignment:  Might was well get it done if you're replacing the tires.

10.  Tranny flush:  SCAM!  When will people realize these are bogus?  

So if I were you I'd find a new mechanic!!!


Well, partially correct.

1. It needs a timing belt. The water pump is timing belt driven. Replace it when you do the belt, or do them both again in a year when the pump starts leaking. Doing it now is good insurance.

2. It may not need flushed. I can't see the condition of the anti freeze from here. If it is still pretty pink, they can just replace the coolant they lose when they do the pump. I tend to assume other shops are as honest as we are. They may not be. So looking at the coolant first would be a good idea.

3. Most of our customers don't know they have an air filter. If you can change it, go ahead. If not, pay the extra 10 bucks to have them do it.

4. Our fuel system service is more than putting stuff in the tank. It costs about 20 bucks a treatment, and we disconnect the fuel system to do it. It really does take close to an hour. Like replacing plugs, if you wait until it runs bad, you waited too long. If our gas supply wasn't so crappy, this wouldn't be needed. Some parts of the country seem to do better than others. Cheap no name gas seems to make deposits worse.

5. I make a good living replacing brake parts that rusted from the inside. Calipers, wheel cylinders, and a few master cylinders with brown goo inside them. From the moisture in the brake fluid. Again, by the time the fluid gets dark, you waited too long.

6. Yes

7. Yes

8. Yes

9. Yes. I always recommend an alignment with new tires to keep them wearing even.

10. I prefer doing a filter and fluid change unless the fluid is really nasty. If it still looks fairly good, replacing the filter and half the fluid is good PM. Not as critical on Mitsu's as some other makes(Chrysler) but still a good idea.

The advantage of having a mechanic you trust is they will actually look at your car, and only suggest what you really need. Ask your friends and co workers if they have a shop they trust. Word of mouth is still the best way to find a good shop.



Question for you on #5 that's really unrelated to the OP.  What turns the fluid colors anyway.  Only time I ever had a problem was on one Baja car we built a couple years ago.  All new parts, new fluid and everything and it would turn brown after the first time we drove it 15 minutes.  Never could figure out why.  It used the same brake system we used on cars previous and cars built later and that was the only car with the problem.  We didn't worry too much because that thing got tore down to the frame about every 2 weeks so it wasn't like it wasn't getting serviced.  
Link Posted: 10/30/2009 4:29:17 PM EDT
[#18]
WOW, there is so much knowledge in this thread its limited to select few people.


Im having a head put on my GF's car right now cause I dont have a shop to do it in or I would do it myself.  Its a 5.5 hour job ..... I called around to get a couple estimates ..... I want a remanned head put on it, timing belt, tensioners, and water pump.  I priced everything out if I was to purchase it myself thru a parts supplier.  Head was 220 with 100 dollar core, gasket set was another 100 bucks, head bolts since they are torque to yield was another 25, new exhaust bolts were like 25, timing belt was 20, water pump was 40 and tensioners were 40 .... comes to about 500 in parts.  500 in parts at MY cost and say labor was 100 bucks an hour thats 1,050 bucks ... I was quoted anywhere from 1200 to 2000.  One guy wanted to charge 5.5 hours for the head, plus parts, plus 4 hours for the timing belt, and 4 hours for the water pump.  I was like what the fuck bucko ...... Im not paying you full labor rate to do another 15 mins worth of work pulling the water pump and putting a new one in, you will already have everything torn down .... there is no way I am paying you the labor to tear it down three times ...... why are you going to charge me 4 hours to put a new timing belt on instead of the old one?

I dont think it really needs a timing belt or a water pump right now, but there are 100k miles on it on since its already going to be torn down whats 100 bucks of parts being added to the bill.  

OH if they are gonna do a brake flush ..... tell em you want them to use super blue to replace it.

Link Posted: 10/30/2009 4:32:25 PM EDT
[#19]
Quoted:


Question for you on #5 that's really unrelated to the OP.  What turns the fluid colors anyway.  Only time I ever had a problem was on one Baja car we built a couple years ago.  All new parts, new fluid and everything and it would turn brown after the first time we drove it 15 minutes.  Never could figure out why.  It used the same brake system we used on cars previous and cars built later and that was the only car with the problem.  We didn't worry too much because that thing got tore down to the frame about every 2 weeks so it wasn't like it wasn't getting serviced.  


The fluid boils in the lines .... and attracts water.

Link Posted: 10/30/2009 4:38:00 PM EDT
[#20]
Find a new mechanic. Most of that stuff is WAY overpriced. Timing belt at 75k, sure. Simple tuneup, new plugs, ok.


change, NOT flush, fluids, sure. $450 - 525 sounds right.





NEVER flush your transmission, drain and refill is good, but never flush. If you do you will be buying a new on in short time.

 
Link Posted: 10/30/2009 4:46:46 PM EDT
[#21]
I bought a set of new tires from Tirerack.com,and brought them to the local Hyundai dealer to have them installed.The Service Manager there said I would be better off if I bought the tires elsewhere,and he had no problem just doing the labor.So I did just that.

When I came back to pick-up the Tucson,the jerk-off behind the counter tried charging me $30 extra for new valves.They didn't touch the valves,as they are part of the TPMS,and they thought I wouldn't know and just pay.I protested,and informed him I didn't think he changed them.He went into the shop,and came out with 4 old rubber stems and tried to insist that they were my actual old parts.He wouldn't budge,and kept insisting they were the actual parts removed from my wheels.

It started to get a bit loud,and the General Manager asked what was going on.I told him that his employee was attempting fraud with me,and showed him the metal,threaded factory stems that were in my wheels,and the rubber ones he was trying to pass-off as my old parts.He got a little edgy,because there were 6 other customers waiting/watching,and taking great interest in our discussion.

Without admitting to the attempted theft from my wallet,he quickly voided the whole ticket,and I got the entire job at no charge.I go outside,and there are 3 guys climbing all over the car.One guy cleaning the interior with a vacuum.One guy polishing all the interior windows.The third getting all ready to wash and wax.The reception girl was apologizing up and down about the whole thing,and told me they were very scared I was going to report them to Corporate Hyundai about the attempted fraud.

Maybe they are already on thin-ice with Hyundai?

Moral of the story is,don't trust any of those bastards for even a split-second.If it was my wife picking it up,she would have not known better,and just paid into their scam.


Link Posted: 10/30/2009 5:13:45 PM EDT
[#22]
Not a pro mechanic, but I've rebuilt one classic car (ever nut and bolt) and am currently building my own car from scratch.

The first piece on your estimate looks like the scheduled timing belt maintenance.  A quick google search seems to indicate that this should have been done at 60k miles.  If it has not been done, I would suggest this be done.  Most engines are "interference engines" - meaning that if the cam and crank timing are thrown off too much relative to one another (i.e., if timing belt breaks) the piston will contact the valves and your engine will become a paperweight.  

Link Posted: 10/30/2009 5:17:02 PM EDT
[#23]
You are supposed to service your vehicles?
Link Posted: 10/30/2009 5:33:04 PM EDT
[#24]
1. Do the timing belt.
2. Do the transmission flush PREFERABLY at the dealerhip. When I was a tech at a GM/Hyundai dealership my brother told me his transmission was acting funny and so of course I took it to work and looked it over. Didn't find anything wrong. Every so often after that my bro would tell me his car would "shudder" for a few seconds and stop, no codes or anything and wouldn't do it when I was there/driving it of course , I asked him if he had flushed the transmission fluid and he said that dad had taken it and gotten it done. Now right there should have been a "red flag" as dad likes to do things "cheap" the first time around. Yup, you guessed it, he took it to some transmission place and they put in NON-SPECIFIC Hyundai transmission fluid in it causing the shudders.
Link Posted: 10/30/2009 5:37:37 PM EDT
[#25]
I would never take anything with wheels to FireStone

A "fuel system flush" is a ripoff...replace the fuel filter and dump a bottle of Techron in the gas tank.

Brake system "flush"...on all the cars I have owned, I just buy a big assed can of brake fluid, open the bleeder valves on the wheels one at a time, with the engine running while I have my wife pump the brake pedal...I refill the master cylinder as I go along...never letting it get too low so as to suck air...

Yes, you need to have your tranny fluid changed, not flushed...as in drop pan, change filter, clean out pan, replace with new gasket and refill with fresh fluid being carefull not to overfill....

Link Posted: 10/30/2009 6:11:17 PM EDT
[#26]
Valvoline once said I needed a radiator fluid swap. This was 4 weeks after I watched a Ford Tech swap it out.
Get a 2nd opinion from a place that is just a mechanic shop.
Link Posted: 10/30/2009 6:18:15 PM EDT
[#27]
Doesn't anyone work on their own stuff anymore? I would never pay someone to do something that I can do myself.
Link Posted: 10/30/2009 6:20:29 PM EDT
[#28]
My two cents

If you get new tires, get the alignment. They will last longer and if you should have some kind of wear issue and go in to complain, you will have more of a leg to stand on.

At 75K doing the water pump with the timing belt is your call. I would because Murphy tends to bite me in the ass.

If you do the water pump, skip the coolant flush. Most of it will be lost doing the WP.

Buy and change your own air filter.

If the fuel service is a true service, (pressurized cleaning of the injectors) I say do it. I have fixed several cars including my own using the MOC product we sell.

Do flush the brake fluid. I have a VW that needs a new BPMV because the previous owner felt it unnecessary. IIRC, that part was over a grand my cost.

Only use OEM plugs, and at 75K I would change them.

I've done hundreds of trans flushes and only had to replace ONE trans after. It was slipping before and the cust was told it wouldn't fix it. He wanted to try it first. Don't use the kit, just change the fluid. ONLY use the OEM fluid

Do a fuel filter too.
Link Posted: 10/30/2009 6:24:50 PM EDT
[#29]



Quoted:


Doesn't anyone work on their own stuff anymore? I would never pay someone to do something that I can do myself.


Wheel alignment and tires are no longer DIY...



The rest? He could do himself... Although water pumps aren't as 'easy' as they used to be, esp the ones that are buried inside the engine...



 
Link Posted: 10/30/2009 6:45:01 PM EDT
[#30]
Quoted:
Quoted:
They are raping you on the parts. Timing belt,water pump, tensioners, air filter, plugs, are almost double the price that anyone can buy them for at a parts store and these places would get a discount  off of the "walk in" price.

Labor seems high too.


Of course the parts price is high. If they don't make money on the parts, and the part fails, they have to eat the labor on replacing it. On the rare occasion that I take in side work, I typically charge about 80% mark up on parts. I guarantee my work. I used to be willing to use carry in parts, and learned the hard way. A friend brought his car to me to fix, he was having money problems and needed the car for work, so I agreed to help him out. I took the car in, figured out what was wrong, and priced good quality parts, he bitched about the price on the parts, went to Autozone and bought a lifetime warranty part. I out it in, everything was good, for six months. The Autozone part went bad, my friend told me "no big deal, the part has a lifetime warranty, it won't cost you anything to replace it again". It did cost me alright, I pulled the part, took it to Autozone, got a free replacement, and used up the rest of my day off putting the part on the car. It also cost me the trust of a friend, I told him I wanted to be paid for doing the job again, and he got all pissy, saying he had already paid me, and the part had a lifetime warranty, so it wouldn't cost me anything. It did cost me, it cost me the better part of a day off, it cost me the aggravation of working on an old shitbox for free, and it cost me the trust of a friend who felt I had tried to rip him off. A mechanic who doesn't make money on parts isn't going to be around for long. A customer who insists on using crappy aftermarket parts, and poorly rebuilt parts is never going to find a trustworthy mechanic. The only mechanics who don't make anything on parts are guys who are so shady, that they know they aren't going to do any free rework ever, or so inexperienced that they do not understand the reasons for installing good parts, and the need to charge for parts, if you don't you will lose money.






I repair appliances. If a customer wants to supply the part needed, I normally don't have a problem. However they are informed b/4 the repair is done that I do not guarantee the part. If it fails the next day they pay the labor again.











Roy
Link Posted: 10/30/2009 6:46:30 PM EDT
[#31]
Quoted:

Quoted:
Doesn't anyone work on their own stuff anymore? I would never pay someone to do something that I can do myself.

Wheel alignment and tires are no longer DIY...

The rest? He could do himself... Although water pumps aren't as 'easy' as they used to be, esp the ones that are buried inside the engine...
 


I mount my own tires.. Takes me about an hour tops in the driveway and saves ~$60. Then all I have to pay for is an alignment/ balance. Sometimes you just can't beat an installed price though, I could have ordered tires for my truck for $940 and they did them for $980 mounted, balanced, and aligned at my local place (Discount tire wanted $1280 ). Tires are one thing you must SHOP.

Water pumps aren't too bad, I just did one on an Accord that was a pain in my ass. Had to take off the crank pulley (biggest pain in the ass), and then the timing cover to get to it... Still, it took me 6 hours and saved my buddy ~$600.
Link Posted: 10/30/2009 6:48:10 PM EDT
[#32]
Firestone sucks at changing tires, you would have to be stupid to let them remove engine covers.



My last Firestone experience:



Went into the store to get some new Revo A/T tires because their online site beat tirerack.com after shipping, etc. I informed them they would need a lug centric adapter to balance my wheels, they said "no problem." As I am watching the tire guy balance my tires on cones, I inform him directly that he needs a lug centric adapter to balance those wheels, he shrugs it off and says they don't have one. I told him it was going to be a come back, he shrugged it off. Once he finished "balancing" that wheel I told him to turn it 90 degrees in the cones and spin it again. He changed out the weights and called it good and shrugged it off again
.



When they were finished, I had 4 unbalanced tires and 3 out of 4 broken TPMS sensors. They borrowed a Hawke lug centric adapter when I brought it back, just like I told them, and got them balanced. They told me to take it to the dealer for the TPMS sensors. After the dealer booked some hours and a good markup on parts, Firestone lost money on my tires.
Link Posted: 10/30/2009 6:49:37 PM EDT
[#33]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Is the car running right now? If so you do not really need any of those things.  Take it in every three months for a oil change plus one thing on that list.

Oh, anything with flush in the title is a rip off.

Your plugs and coolant should be good for at least 10-years or 100,000 miles.


Oh sure, plugs last 100k easy.
http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb195/toiyabe66/Shop%205/DSCN4186.jpg
79k miles. Ford SVT Contour.

And you do the water pump at the same time as a timing belt on that car, iirc.


Iridium plugs go over 100k easy. Welcome to the 21st Century.
Link Posted: 10/30/2009 6:51:35 PM EDT
[#34]



Quoted:



Quoted:




Quoted:

Doesn't anyone work on their own stuff anymore? I would never pay someone to do something that I can do myself.


Wheel alignment and tires are no longer DIY...



The rest? He could do himself... Although water pumps aren't as 'easy' as they used to be, esp the ones that are buried inside the engine...

 




I mount my own tires.. Takes me about an hour tops in the driveway and saves ~$60. Then all I have to pay for is an alignment/ balance. Sometimes you just can't beat an installed price though, I could have ordered tires for my truck for $940 and they did them for $980 mounted, balanced, and aligned at my local place (Discount tire wanted $1280
). Tires are one thing you must SHOP.



Water pumps aren't too bad, I just did one on an Accord that was a pain in my ass. Had to take off the crank pulley (biggest pain in the ass), and then the timing cover to get to it... Still, it took me 6 hours and saved my buddy ~$600.
I have a COATS 220 for changing motorcycle tires, but for the few bucks a shop charges, I don't bother with car tires. For the time and aggravation it usually ends up costing me, I probably should.





 
Link Posted: 10/30/2009 6:52:30 PM EDT
[#35]



Quoted:


Everything on that list EXCEPT the alignment tires & the water pump is 'Any Idiot can do this at home over the weekend' work



They are trying to 'up-sell' you big-time...



Why is the car going in? Just 'Maintanance' or is the WP dying and the tires bald?

 


My thoughts exactly. Unless you don't know which way to point a screwdriver, you can do all the other stuff.

 
Link Posted: 10/30/2009 7:11:54 PM EDT
[#36]
Quoted:

Quoted:
Everything on that list EXCEPT the alignment tires & the water pump is 'Any Idiot can do this at home over the weekend' work

They are trying to 'up-sell' you big-time...

Why is the car going in? Just 'Maintanance' or is the WP dying and the tires bald?
 

My thoughts exactly. Unless you don't know which way to point a screwdriver, you can do all the other stuff.  


I don't know why but I damn near fell out of my chair laughing at that... Don't know why, but thanks for my laugh of the day.
Link Posted: 10/30/2009 7:12:47 PM EDT
[#37]
If you gave the go-ahead on that I bet half that shit wouldn't get done.

The sad part is most people would never know.
Link Posted: 10/30/2009 7:13:35 PM EDT
[#38]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Is the car running right now? If so you do not really need any of those things.  Take it in every three months for a oil change plus one thing on that list.

Oh, anything with flush in the title is a rip off.

Your plugs and coolant should be good for at least 10-years or 100,000 miles.


Oh sure, plugs last 100k easy.
http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb195/toiyabe66/Shop%205/DSCN4186.jpg
79k miles. Ford SVT Contour.

And you do the water pump at the same time as a timing belt on that car, iirc.


Iridium plugs go over 100k easy. Welcome to the 21st Century.


Welcome to not knowing what you're talking about.

I've got piles of Iridium plugs that didn't last 30k miles, in street applications. Spark plugs wear out. No mystery. High combustion chamber pressures and temperatures accelerate that.
I can pretty much guarantee I've installed enough sets of Iridium plugs to tell.

Edit: Sorry if I'm cranky - I need to stay the hell out of these threads. I now know why people like Pat Rogers stay at Lightfighter.
Link Posted: 10/30/2009 7:19:17 PM EDT
[#39]



Quoted:



Quoted:


Quoted:

Is the car running right now? If so you do not really need any of those things.  Take it in every three months for a oil change plus one thing on that list.



Oh, anything with flush in the title is a rip off.



Your plugs and coolant should be good for at least 10-years or 100,000 miles.




Oh sure, plugs last 100k easy.


http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb195/toiyabe66/Shop%205/DSCN4186.jpg

79k miles. Ford SVT Contour.



And you do the water pump at the same time as a timing belt on that car, iirc.




Iridium plugs can go over 100k easy. Welcome to the 21st Century.


Fixed. Just because they can last a long time, doesn't mean they always do.



 
Link Posted: 10/30/2009 8:26:57 PM EDT
[#40]
After reading this thread this is the first thing that came to my mind http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=moIPyyE86r0

Excuse me while I go and change my brake fluid
Link Posted: 10/30/2009 8:32:13 PM EDT
[#41]





Quoted:





Quoted:
Quoted:


Doesn't anyone work on their own stuff anymore? I would never pay someone to do something that I can do myself.




Wheel alignment and tires are no longer DIY...





The rest? He could do himself... Although water pumps aren't as 'easy' as they used to be, esp the ones that are buried inside the engine...


 






I mount my own tires.. Takes me about an hour tops in the driveway and saves ~$60. Then all I have to pay for is an alignment/ balance. Sometimes you just can't beat an installed price though, I could have ordered tires for my truck for $940 and they did them for $980 mounted, balanced, and aligned at my local place (Discount tire wanted $1280

). Tires are one thing you must SHOP.





Water pumps aren't too bad, I just did one on an Accord that was a pain in my ass. Had to take off the crank pulley (biggest pain in the ass), and then the timing cover to get to it... Still, it took me 6 hours and saved my buddy ~$600.



Holy FUCK!





And I thought ~$500 installed was bad (Camaro tires)....





That said, many newer vehicles now have 'tire pressure sensor' systems that require programming/calibration....





Hence, tires for those vehicles are a 'pro's job'.....



As for the water pump, that CAN be a DIY job (say, on a Chev 350)... Or it can be a royal pain in the ass better left to the pros (some versions of Grand Am actually have an INTERNAL water pump, for example)....



So I'm not going to say 'easy' on a repair that varies significantly from the cars I'm used to working on (eg, Chev 5.7 V8/4.3L V6)...





 
Link Posted: 10/30/2009 8:51:29 PM EDT
[#42]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
They are raping you on the parts. Timing belt,water pump, tensioners, air filter, plugs, are almost double the price that anyone can buy them for at a parts store and these places would get a discount  off of the "walk in" price.

Labor seems high too.


Of course the parts price is high. If they don't make money on the parts, and the part fails, they have to eat the labor on replacing it. On the rare occasion that I take in side work, I typically charge about 80% mark up on parts. I guarantee my work. I used to be willing to use carry in parts, and learned the hard way. A friend brought his car to me to fix, he was having money problems and needed the car for work, so I agreed to help him out. I took the car in, figured out what was wrong, and priced good quality parts, he bitched about the price on the parts, went to Autozone and bought a lifetime warranty part. I out it in, everything was good, for six months. The Autozone part went bad, my friend told me "no big deal, the part has a lifetime warranty, it won't cost you anything to replace it again". It did cost me alright, I pulled the part, took it to Autozone, got a free replacement, and used up the rest of my day off putting the part on the car. It also cost me the trust of a friend, I told him I wanted to be paid for doing the job again, and he got all pissy, saying he had already paid me, and the part had a lifetime warranty, so it wouldn't cost me anything. It did cost me, it cost me the better part of a day off, it cost me the aggravation of working on an old shitbox for free, and it cost me the trust of a friend who felt I had tried to rip him off. A mechanic who doesn't make money on parts isn't going to be around for long. A customer who insists on using crappy aftermarket parts, and poorly rebuilt parts is never going to find a trustworthy mechanic. The only mechanics who don't make anything on parts are guys who are so shady, that they know they aren't going to do any free rework ever, or so inexperienced that they do not understand the reasons for installing good parts, and the need to charge for parts, if you don't you will lose money.


I didn't say they shouldn't make money on the parts. I just think 100% mark up is kind of excessive. If they are using decent quality parts the failure rate should be very low.


Just my opinion.


So..what have got against  making a profit?.....as a Tech..I'm not in the business of fixing your car..I am in it to make money..I make my money by using my skills and tools to fix your car........want it done cheap?...go ahead...you get what you pay for.
Link Posted: 10/30/2009 8:57:48 PM EDT
[#43]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Brake fluid is hygroscopic, it absorbs moisture, and over time this lowers the fluid's boiling point, resulting in a mushy, shitty feeling pedal.  I can understand the reasoning behind recommending that, but FWIW, I haven't flushed the brake fluid once in my F150 in five years and 90,000 miles.  I really should flush mine, but my brakes feel and stop fine right now.  Your call on that one, my personal experience on both sides of the fence sees no real error with doing it or not at this point.


Thank you.
I will, however, be calling and berating you tomorrow for not flushing your brake fluid.

Every 6 months on the street cars, 1 year on the truck, and every event on the race cars.


It's one of those "I've been meaning to do it..." things I keep pushing aside in the name of other people's cars.  Honest.  I swear!


I've been needing to do valve cover gaskets on the M for a year.

Edit: And I still haven't done the balljoints on the truck. It's so, well, big.


I've got knock sensors and intake gaskets that need to go on my truck, critters chewed through the bank 1 sensor harness about a year ago and I haven't tended to it yet.  I just clear the code whenever the harness flexes in just the right spot to turn the MIL on.

The mechanic's ride is always the last one to get worked on, it seems
.


No kidding...I've got a evap leak
pops up every few months....turns off the light after a couple days.
more pressing is a axle bearing starting to make noise [got a killer deal on a pair of Yukon axles with a set of Timken bearings]
and my oil cooler lines are sweating oil.
Link Posted: 10/30/2009 8:59:18 PM EDT
[#44]
I'm no mechanic but I do most of my car repairs myself.  It is about time to replace the timing belt since you're at around 75k miles.  You might as well replace the water pump while doing this as they are already going to be in that spot.  

Everything else is a ripoff depending on where you live.

- Do the air filter, spark plugs, oil change yourself.  It's so easy, my GF could do it.  

-Go elsewhere for the tires. I just got 4 brand new tires w/ 75,000 mile life rating for around $400 on my GF's car at Discount Tire.  Good tires and good service.  They rotate and balance the tires as needed for the life of the tire for FREE.

- I wouldn't flush the brake lines or tranny but that's just me.  

-You can also get your cooling system flushed for cheaper than $78 if you find someplace doing seasonal specials.  

-What's a fuel system tune up?  Is it them just pouring some fuel injector cleaning treatment into your gas tank?  

As others have mentioned, find a new mechanic.

Link Posted: 10/30/2009 9:05:59 PM EDT
[#45]
Quoted:

Quoted:
Quoted:

Quoted:
Doesn't anyone work on their own stuff anymore? I would never pay someone to do something that I can do myself.

Wheel alignment and tires are no longer DIY...

The rest? He could do himself... Although water pumps aren't as 'easy' as they used to be, esp the ones that are buried inside the engine...
 


I mount my own tires.. Takes me about an hour tops in the driveway and saves ~$60. Then all I have to pay for is an alignment/ balance. Sometimes you just can't beat an installed price though, I could have ordered tires for my truck for $940 and they did them for $980 mounted, balanced, and aligned at my local place (Discount tire wanted $1280 ). Tires are one thing you must SHOP.

Water pumps aren't too bad, I just did one on an Accord that was a pain in my ass. Had to take off the crank pulley (biggest pain in the ass), and then the timing cover to get to it... Still, it took me 6 hours and saved my buddy ~$600.

Holy FUCK!

And I thought ~$500 installed was bad (Camaro tires)....

That said, many newer vehicles now have 'tire pressure sensor' systems that require programming/calibration....

Hence, tires for those vehicles are a 'pro's job'.....

As for the water pump, that CAN be a DIY job (say, on a Chev 350)... Or it can be a royal pain in the ass better left to the pros (some versions of Grand Am actually have an INTERNAL water pump, for example)....

So I'm not going to say 'easy' on a repair that varies significantly from the cars I'm used to working on (eg, Chev 5.7 V8/4.3L V6)...
 


$980 seems cheap to me now. I am upgrading to 35's, they are $1495 installed...

Link Posted: 10/31/2009 4:54:10 AM EDT
[#46]
Link Posted: 10/31/2009 5:45:23 AM EDT
[#47]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Edit: Sorry if I'm cranky - I need to stay the hell out of these threads. I now know why people like Pat Rogers stay at Lightfighter.


Arfcom makes experts out of any and every one, regardless of who they are or what they do.

So you own your own shop and made a career out of working on race cars, street cars, hell, most anything with four wheels and an engine?  Pfft, you don't know shit, I do this stuff in my front yard!

So you're a Marine officer, stationed in Afghanistan, pfft, you don't know shit, this and that is what we *should* do to win the war!

So you're a police officer, pfft, you don't know shit, that's why all you guys are crooked jack booted thugs who rape, rob and pillage behind a badge, this is how you should do your job!

And so on, and so on.

The ignorance of the particular car we're talking about here has shined through a few times, dudes who are like:

"The water pump is driven by the timing belt" (on that particular engine, it is not, but it is under the timing cover)

Or "brake fluid flushing, that's bullshit, it stopped when you got there, right?!" (even though brake fluid is hygroscopic, meaning it'll absorb moisture, even just sitting there in the master cylinder.  Someone asked why brake fluid changes color.  It's because it's hygroscopic.  It absorbs moisture in the air, moisture that also contains microscopic dirt particles, which over time changes the fluid's color from amber or clear to black.  The fluid boiling doesn't change it's color.  In fact, under normal operating conditions, the brake fluid had better not boil.  Ever.  Boiling brake fluid = no brakes.  Saying brake fluid flushing is bullshit is like saying oil changes are bullshit.  Brake fluid does wear out.)

Or "fuel system services are bullshit, just dump some stuff in the tank and replace the fuel filter" (when that particular car does not have an externally serviceable fuel filter)

Or "don't flush the transmission, it'll blow up!" (when over the course of 13 years, I've had maybe two automatic transmissions die after flushing, and as I recall, they were on borrowed time before the service anyways), or "just drop the pan and replace the filter" (when that transmission does not have an internal filter or a trans pan like most conventional automatic transmissions)

Or "Iridium spark plugs can go 100K+ miles, welcome to the 21st century" (when yes, they can make the engine physically start, idle and run past 100K miles, but no, they won't really do it well, they do wear out before 100K miles)

Or "all that stuff is WAY overpriced!" (which is humorously ironic coming from folks who claim to be conservative/pro-capitalism/anti-Obama...)

But hey, everyone is an expert on everything on Arfcom.  Except the people who actually are experts in their particular field.  Those guys, they don't know shit.


Well said.
I'm going to give you a shout today.

Edit: I thought the WP was driven by the TB. Oops. ANything except the 4G63 in Mitsu engines I don't know jack about.
Link Posted: 10/31/2009 6:00:50 AM EDT
[#48]
Oh didn't read the replies but here goes....  All flushes and cleaners and go fasters are a bunch of bullshit meant to build a bill (sell to the customer to rape their wallets) and do not do a thing is the cars is on a decent maintenance schedule.  A timing belt should go not longer than 80K and plugs 50K for those who say they car manf. says longer go off what the people that make the part say.  Half of that stuff is upselling or bill building and you do not need it and with the AF just DIY and save yourself some $$.  I didn't check the hours but off the top of my head looks like they are billing close to $95-100 a flat hour.  Also take in mind that 80% of this work will be performed by a unskilled tech (high school kid).  Go find a local family ran outfit and support small business and you will have better luck.  Reason being is us small timers cannot afford (most of us anyway) to fuck someone and lose the repeat business.

ETA:  Coolant flush will be done when water pump is done what they did is called stacking labor....   Also if you have a decent tool set and a Chilton or Haynes manual all of this work is DIY in a day aside from tires and alignment.  Yes you can break tires down in your driveway but what a pain in the ass most places will mount for free if you buy them in house.
Link Posted: 10/31/2009 6:24:12 AM EDT
[#49]
Your gonna get fucked unless A-you work on your own cars,B-you are FRIENDS with a mechanic who will work on your car on the side for cash.
Link Posted: 10/31/2009 6:29:16 AM EDT
[#50]
Quoted:
Your gonna get fucked unless A-you work on your own cars,B-you are FRIENDS with a mechanic who will work on your car on the side for cash.


If you look at getting fucked as that anyone makes a living on selling you goods and or services than yes you are going to get fucked.....  First words out of my Busniess and Entrepreneurship class professor was "all business are crooked your success will depend on how fine a line you can walk".
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