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Posted: 12/14/2013 6:11:05 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
He'll never concede that AR500 is vulnerable to certain 5.56MM rounds. He owns a pair of steel plates, which is the only reason that I can think of for the obsession. There is a long history of him defending steel as armor, and specifically against the multitude of people on here that know it has specific weaknesses. Which is why I gave up, as well. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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It stops m855 reliably I give up. Can I buy a piece of your miracle 1/4" AR500 that stops rounds that no other piece of equal material will? He'll never concede that AR500 is vulnerable to certain 5.56MM rounds. He owns a pair of steel plates, which is the only reason that I can think of for the obsession. There is a long history of him defending steel as armor, and specifically against the multitude of people on here that know it has specific weaknesses. Which is why I gave up, as well. lol. Even in your constant AR500 bashing not once have you made the claim that steel won't stop m855. Testing has shown velocity is what penetrates steel armor...and m855 velocities aren't enough to do it. m193 is the round that may penetrate at close distances. edit- LOL it's layer60 at it again. The guy who has never had to use armor to protect his life but thinks he is on a crusade to crush the steel infidels. Dude....who cares if it isn't as good as ceramic. If I was concerned about best performance I wouldn't be at the bottom rung of armor. |
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Posted: 12/14/2013 6:12:26 PM EDT
[#2]
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I give up. Can I buy a piece of your miracle 1/4" AR500 that stops rounds that no other piece of equal material will? m193 is not m855. But whatever who cares about facts. |
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Posted: 12/14/2013 6:19:21 PM EDT
[#3]
I refuse to buy their armor again. I purchased a plate that was supposed to be in stock. They said it takes 10 weeks to ship. Listed as in stock, took my money that second, but couldn't ship it for months. They can keep their heavy ass rhino lined garbage.
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Posted: 12/14/2013 6:29:47 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuote History Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: i have 20 feet of 12" AR500 that i was thinking about cutting down into targets and some into armor plate,,, but im not sure i want to liability if i sell some off. is this the same as http://www.ar500armor.com/?  This last summer, I made a very limited prototype run of 0.250" AR500 plates for testing purposes, for which I had mill certs stating composition and hardness, so I'm pretty damn sure I knew what I was dealing with material wise. During a local arfcom shoot in Carson City this last July, I tested one of the plates and a piece of scrap mine haul truck bed brought back from the mines, using a 16" barrel Colt 6940 at 50 yards, using PMC X-tac 62 grain 5.56 ammo. Both plates failed. Plates were leaned roughly against the berm, and fell over when hit. Based off that test, I decided that my steel would only be sold as targets. Your results my vary. |
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Posted: 12/14/2013 7:03:24 PM EDT
[#5]
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Based off that test, I decided that my steel would only be sold as targets. Your results my vary. Why would I buy your steel as targets if it won't survive the ammo I regularly shoot? Somehow my steel targets have held up to thousands of rounds of M855 and 7n6 just fine. |
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Posted: 12/14/2013 7:13:16 PM EDT
[#6]
Tons of vids of the 500.com being shit with all kinna stuff and not penetrating seems like good stuff.
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Posted: 12/14/2013 7:33:23 PM EDT
[#7]
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It stops m855 reliably Quote HistoryQuoted:
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i have 20 feet of 12" AR500 that i was thinking about cutting down into targets and some into armor plate,,, but im not sure i want to liability if i sell some off. annnnndddd bullshit Dude, TBS was getting XM193 to blow through 3/8" AR500 from close range. It stops m855 reliably Ok |
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Posted: 12/14/2013 8:04:02 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Why would I buy your steel as targets if it won't survive the ammo I regularly shoot? Somehow my steel targets have held up to thousands of rounds of M855 and 7n6 just fine. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Based off that test, I decided that my steel would only be sold as targets. Your results my vary. Why would I buy your steel as targets if it won't survive the ammo I regularly shoot? Somehow my steel targets have held up to thousands of rounds of M855 and 7n6 just fine. What thickness AR500 steel are you using, and at what range? |
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Posted: 12/14/2013 9:04:19 PM EDT
[#9]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=duxeXrz6Pvg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tfVAnU8SabY http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wb-ClokH0ks http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AdmC8PWcTqk Video evidence that ar500 stops m855/ss109 reliably |
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Posted: 12/14/2013 9:06:42 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm not affiliated with that particular site. As I'm not a vendor here, try to not go around posting direct links to my site, to avoid peepee slaps from the mods.
This last summer, I made a very limited prototype run of 0.250" AR500 plates for testing purposes, for which I had mill certs stating composition and hardness, so I'm pretty damn sure I knew what I was dealing with material wise. During a local arfcom shoot in Carson City this last July, I tested one of the plates and a piece of scrap mine haul truck bed brought back from the mines, using a 16" barrel Colt 6940 at 50 yards, using PMC X-tac 62 grain 5.56 ammo. Both plates failed. Plates were leaned roughly against the berm, and fell over when hit. Based off that test, I decided that my steel would only be sold as targets. Your results my vary. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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i have 20 feet of 12" AR500 that i was thinking about cutting down into targets and some into armor plate,,, but im not sure i want to liability if i sell some off. is this the same as http://www.ar500armor.com/? I'm not affiliated with that particular site. As I'm not a vendor here, try to not go around posting direct links to my site, to avoid peepee slaps from the mods.
This last summer, I made a very limited prototype run of 0.250" AR500 plates for testing purposes, for which I had mill certs stating composition and hardness, so I'm pretty damn sure I knew what I was dealing with material wise. During a local arfcom shoot in Carson City this last July, I tested one of the plates and a piece of scrap mine haul truck bed brought back from the mines, using a 16" barrel Colt 6940 at 50 yards, using PMC X-tac 62 grain 5.56 ammo. Both plates failed. Plates were leaned roughly against the berm, and fell over when hit. Based off that test, I decided that my steel would only be sold as targets. Your results my vary. pictures/ video? |
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Posted: 12/14/2013 9:52:56 PM EDT
[#11]
I'm not about to watch an hour of youtube looking for the parts where they shoot plates with 5.56, so I'll take your word on it. I'd be happy to get a photo of my plate with a hole of it tomorrow, but I assure you, it's not that exciting.  All I can tell you is my experience, testing results, and conclusion. Beyond that, I dunno. I still have everything I need to repeat the test, so that's always an option. I suppose it is possible that my test piece was not actually AR500, as ordered from my vendor, but the mill sheet says it's AR500. I'll post up a pic of the punched steel tomorrow, for the lulz. |
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Posted: 12/14/2013 10:16:54 PM EDT
[#12]
As in most things I think the answer is that it depends. Here is my data point.
I have a plate from a certain dealer who used to sell ar500 armor plates (don't know if he is still in business) who scammed a bunch people. You guys know who it is. I shot this plate with brown box fed m193 and ATI 62gr. I was shooting at about 30 yards with a 16in and a 20in AR. The plate stopped both rounds from the 16in. The m193 from the 20in zipped right thru. I think the 62gr from the 20in was stopped by the plate but I can't remember |
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Posted: 12/14/2013 10:28:06 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: As in most things I think the answer is that it depends. Here is my data point. I have a plate from a certain dealer who used to sell ar500 armor plates (don't know if he is still in business) who scammed a bunch people. You guys know who it is. I shot this plate with brown box fed m193 and ATI 62gr. I was shooting at about 30 yards with a 16in and a 20in AR. The plate stopped both rounds from the 16in. The m193 from the 20in zipped right thru. I think the 62gr from the 20in was stopped by the plate but I can't remember |
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Posted: 12/14/2013 10:51:25 PM EDT
[#14]
And for what its worth I have two TargetMan rhino lined steel plates in a banshee that I use as my primary weekend warrior vest.
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Posted: 12/15/2013 4:24:21 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: pictures/ video? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: i have 20 feet of 12" AR500 that i was thinking about cutting down into targets and some into armor plate,,, but im not sure i want to liability if i sell some off. is this the same as http://www.ar500armor.com/? I'm not affiliated with that particular site. As I'm not a vendor here, try to not go around posting direct links to my site, to avoid peepee slaps from the mods. This last summer, I made a very limited prototype run of 0.250" AR500 plates for testing purposes, for which I had mill certs stating composition and hardness, so I'm pretty damn sure I knew what I was dealing with material wise. During a local arfcom shoot in Carson City this last July, I tested one of the plates and a piece of scrap mine haul truck bed brought back from the mines, using a 16" barrel Colt 6940 at 50 yards, using PMC X-tac 62 grain 5.56 ammo. Both plates failed. Plates were leaned roughly against the berm, and fell over when hit. Based off that test, I decided that my steel would only be sold as targets. Your results my vary. pictures/ video? I am confused, is AR500 the patented steel name or a company that produces it? i assume AR500 steel and ar500armor.com is just coincidence?
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Posted: 12/15/2013 5:37:53 AM EDT
[#16]
Ar500 is the type of steel. The hardness level. There is ar400, ar500, ar550 etc.
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Posted: 12/15/2013 10:28:17 AM EDT
[#17]
Photos of my prototype plate. We ended the test after a single shot fired.
AR500 is an industry standard term, it's a measure of the Brinell hardness. AR400 and AR500 are commonly used as wear plates in the construction industry. Dump truck beds, grader blades, snow plows, dump bins, all are often built from or lined with AR500 plate. As recently as a decade ago, T-1 steel was used for targets, but it has a Brinell hardness closer to 300. Mild steel is usually 120-180. |
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Posted: 12/15/2013 10:34:38 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Photos of my prototype plate. We ended the test after a single shot fired. AR500 is an industry standard term, it's a measure of the Brinell hardness. AR400 and AR500 are commonly used as wear plates in the construction industry. Dump truck beds, grader blades, snow plows, dump bins, all are often built from or lined with AR500 plate. As recently as a decade ago, T-1 steel was used for targets, but it has a Brinell hardness closer to 300. Mild steel is usually 120-180. I've been interested in the use of A36 steel for rimfire silhouette games. I'm kind of setting it up at my range. A few guys say its good for anything under 2000fps, past 100m. Then the others say it's barely adequate for .22. You got an opinion on it? |
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Posted: 12/15/2013 10:37:47 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Photos of my prototype plate. We ended the test after a single shot fired. AR500 is an industry standard term, it's a measure of the Brinell hardness. AR400 and AR500 are commonly used as wear plates in the construction industry. Dump truck beds, grader blades, snow plows, dump bins, all are often built from or lined with AR500 plate. As recently as a decade ago, T-1 steel was used for targets, but it has a Brinell hardness closer to 300. Mild steel is usually 120-180. Thanks for posting the pictures. By any chance do you have the test specs (nij cert)? |
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Posted: 12/15/2013 10:41:55 AM EDT
[#20]
the targetman plates are 3/8" thick ar500, right?
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Posted: 12/15/2013 10:42:32 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Dude, TBS was getting XM193 to blow through 3/8" AR500 from close range. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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i have 20 feet of 12" AR500 that i was thinking about cutting down into targets and some into armor plate,,, but im not sure i want to liability if i sell some off. annnnndddd bullshit Dude, TBS was getting XM193 to blow through 3/8" AR500 from close range. It's strange how 193 will penetrate certain plates that 855 will not, and vice versa. |
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Posted: 12/15/2013 10:48:32 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don't know as you guys, but I've yet to find a good reason for getting body armor. I participate in NMLRA competitions a lot at my range, so I can say I've got experience lugging around AR500 plates all day. That's ridiculously heavy for something that's supposed to be on your body in any circumstance. But knowing this Gov't, anything that could possibly be worth a damn to me in regards to Passive Defense is most surely restricted somehow.  What Irks me here is I've seen no threads on the use of A36 instead. Big improvement, IMO. Not nearly as strong as R500, but you get a 15% weight reduction. In all honesty, AR500 is WAY overboard. Way overboard.  fuck I feel dumber |
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Posted: 12/15/2013 11:05:41 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Thanks for posting the pictures. By any chance do you have the test specs (nij cert)? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Photos of my prototype plate. We ended the test after a single shot fired. AR500 is an industry standard term, it's a measure of the Brinell hardness. AR400 and AR500 are commonly used as wear plates in the construction industry. Dump truck beds, grader blades, snow plows, dump bins, all are often built from or lined with AR500 plate. As recently as a decade ago, T-1 steel was used for targets, but it has a Brinell hardness closer to 300. Mild steel is usually 120-180. Thanks for posting the pictures. By any chance do you have the test specs (nij cert)?  |
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Posted: 12/15/2013 11:07:08 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I've been interested in the use of A36 steel for rimfire silhouette games. I'm kind of setting it up at my range. A few guys say its good for anything under 2000fps, past 100m. Then the others say it's barely adequate for .22. You got an opinion on it? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Photos of my prototype plate. We ended the test after a single shot fired. AR500 is an industry standard term, it's a measure of the Brinell hardness. AR400 and AR500 are commonly used as wear plates in the construction industry. Dump truck beds, grader blades, snow plows, dump bins, all are often built from or lined with AR500 plate. As recently as a decade ago, T-1 steel was used for targets, but it has a Brinell hardness closer to 300. Mild steel is usually 120-180. I've been interested in the use of A36 steel for rimfire silhouette games. I'm kind of setting it up at my range. A few guys say its good for anything under 2000fps, past 100m. Then the others say it's barely adequate for .22. You got an opinion on it? For rimfire, 0.250 A36 (mild steel) is just fine. |
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Posted: 12/15/2013 11:09:34 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Steel core 62 gr 5.56 goes righ through 0.25" AR500. 
But black tip .308 won't do much more than dent 3/8" AR500? |
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Posted: 12/15/2013 11:14:27 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'll post up a pic of the punched steel tomorrow, for the lulz. Please post pictures of your ceramic plates shot with the same rounds too. This is interesting! |
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Posted: 12/15/2013 12:03:09 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
the targetman plates are 3/8" thick ar500, right? 1/4 |
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Posted: 12/15/2013 12:10:57 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
As I have no intention of turning it into armor, I obviously wouldn't pay for a NIJ cert. I have hardness testing results from the mill, which show the Brinell hardness of the test piece. Now that I think about it, I think my vendor has onsite testing capabilities of some sort. I should be doing a site visit in January or February, I wonder if I could throw this demo plate on there to confirm hardness? I'll have to think about this. This conversation has got me thinking about that project again.
Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Photos of my prototype plate. We ended the test after a single shot fired. AR500 is an industry standard term, it's a measure of the Brinell hardness. AR400 and AR500 are commonly used as wear plates in the construction industry. Dump truck beds, grader blades, snow plows, dump bins, all are often built from or lined with AR500 plate. As recently as a decade ago, T-1 steel was used for targets, but it has a Brinell hardness closer to 300. Mild steel is usually 120-180. Thanks for posting the pictures. By any chance do you have the test specs (nij cert)?
I would be interested to see what the hardness is. I know you didn't watch the videos but the plates ALL stopped 62gr steel core (99% likely to be m855) at variable distances. One of the videos showed 55gr stopping it but it probably wasn't up to m193 velocities. From what I understand velocity is what penetrates plates, and the closer you get to 3k fps the more likely it is to go through regardless of density of the round. I wish a professional tester would test plates at different distances with different 5.56 so it could all be official instead of hearsay. |
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Posted: 12/15/2013 12:22:43 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: But black tip .308 won't do much more than dent 3/8" AR500? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Steel core 62 gr 5.56 goes righ through 0.25" AR500. But black tip .308 won't do much more than dent 3/8" AR500? Haven't tested black tip 308, and I try to only make blanket statements about things I've done/seen myself.  Gotta remember that 7.62x51 velocity is about 2,800 fps, while 5.56 is more like 3,200 fps, and a 30 cal projectile has a cross section 90% greater than 22 cal. Also, dunno whatchu talking 'bout on ceramic plates, I don't have those. I'm not ar500guy/man/target/whatever.com. I haven't posted my website in this thread for fear of peepee slap, not being a paid vendor. That, and my website is going through a reorganization this weekend, it was getting cluttered. It's up, but it will make more sense in a couple days. |
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Posted: 12/15/2013 12:27:56 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I would be interested to see what the hardness is. I know you didn't watch the videos but the plates ALL stopped 62gr steel core (99% likely to be m855) at variable distances. One of the videos showed 55gr stopping it but it probably wasn't up to m193 velocities. From what I understand velocity is what penetrates plates, and the closer you get to 3k fps the more likely it is to go through regardless of density of the round. I wish a professional tester would test plates at different distances with different 5.56 so it could all be official instead of hearsay. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Photos of my prototype plate. We ended the test after a single shot fired. AR500 is an industry standard term, it's a measure of the Brinell hardness. AR400 and AR500 are commonly used as wear plates in the construction industry. Dump truck beds, grader blades, snow plows, dump bins, all are often built from or lined with AR500 plate. As recently as a decade ago, T-1 steel was used for targets, but it has a Brinell hardness closer to 300. Mild steel is usually 120-180. Thanks for posting the pictures. By any chance do you have the test specs (nij cert)? I would be interested to see what the hardness is. I know you didn't watch the videos but the plates ALL stopped 62gr steel core (99% likely to be m855) at variable distances. One of the videos showed 55gr stopping it but it probably wasn't up to m193 velocities. From what I understand velocity is what penetrates plates, and the closer you get to 3k fps the more likely it is to go through regardless of density of the round. I wish a professional tester would test plates at different distances with different 5.56 so it could all be official instead of hearsay. I've been meaning to do a sciency style field test for this for a while. Until three weeks ago, full time job kept me from taking the time, but I got laid off (for taking too much accrued sick leave while recuperating from surgery, apparently  ) so I have time now.Unfortunately, the surgery was on my right hand, and I just had a second round a week ago. All of this is typed with just my left hand. If I can get the test elements together, and a shooter, I may get it done in the next few weeks, otherwise, it will be sometime after February when I can shoot again. Not risking screwing up my hand and getting a third visit under the knife. If I have time tonight I'll draft up the test elements to discuss with you guys. |
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Posted: 12/15/2013 1:06:36 PM EDT
[#31]
Newest report from my old room mate was that he defeated .375 ar 500 steel targets with independence 5.56 55g at 10 yards out of a 20 inch ar. These same plates have stopped hundreds of rounds of 556, 308, x39, and 30-06. At ranges of 50 to 150 yards.
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