Quoted: dave thats actually how it happened, and the 2 mil figure is total net worth. Never had an attorney until he was charged. I'm sure you honestly couldn't concieve not having an attorney in this case, but I bet you also couldnt concieve of year round deer hunting as a primary food source or growing up without indoor plumbing either. Im willing to bet there is a lot in life you cant concieve. As for your trying to hide behind being a dumb hick remark, thats cute. I wonder if you are as cute as your remark, or if your legs must be shaven to reach the same cuteness level. Forgive me. His operation was essentially leased land, a mix of borrowed, bought, and leased equipment, and "dumb hicks" were all that made up the work force from top to bottom. Even the mine inspector who came by was "a dumb hick". And I dont think a lawyer or accountant would've helped anyway, the one (and only)local such fellar at the time went to prison himself for essentially talking his clients into cheating the gov a little along and somehow keeping that skimmed portion for himself. eta the business was incorporated, prob had the county attorney help him with that, and the books and payroll were handled (properly minus withholding) by his 3rd wife. And who the fuck pays their own taxes, doesnt withhold from employees, and tries to get away with "it"? get away with what? not making a single extra fucking dime from doing so? loved his workers that much did he? sumtimes i do not like you at all. this is one of those times. im pouring this bourbon shot i was holding for you down the dogs throat instead.

i would once again remind you that there are plenty of people in prison who shouldn't be there. Olofson anyone? Shall we give him a year to improve and then execute him?

(nevermind that he can incur a disciplinary record from merely defending himself from real thugs while in there)

sometimes i really wonder about you seemingly hard nose law and order types, i wonder if you'd still carry the same tune if you found yourself behind bars for something like having a round of ammo in the vehicle when going into a commie state or bouncing too many checks or having your pistol malfunction and go burst. Maybe the universe should give you exactly what you think you want, so that maybe you realize you dont really want it at all.

its all black and white, open and shut huh? everyone in prison is a murderer or a scumbag or a deviant huh? everyone who isnt is by default a better person huh?

i think ill go tear the tags off some mattresses brb.

Quoted: there should be more in jail, a lot more

No shit thats like 8 people out of 1000. If Im a criminal I like those odds

Quoted: i would once again remind you that there are plenty of people in prison who shouldn't be there. Olofson anyone? Shall we give him a year to improve and then execute him? (nevermind that he can incur a disciplinary record from merely defending himself from real thugs while in there) sometimes i really wonder about you seemingly hard nose law and order types, i wonder if you'd still carry the same tune if you found yourself behind bars for something like having a round of ammo in the vehicle when going into a commie state or bouncing too many checks or having your pistol malfunction and go burst. Maybe the universe should give you exactly what you think you want, so that maybe you realize you dont really want it at all. its all black and white, open and shut huh? everyone in prison is a murderer or a scumbag or a deviant huh? everyone who isnt is by default a better person huh? i think ill go tear the tags off some mattresses brb.

There's always an exception to every rule. There are always a few that fall through the cracks but the fact is the major majority of inmates deserve to be where they are and there are a bunch more on the outside that should be there. Again, I've had the chance to interact with them and the majority believe they had a right to do what they did. That's why most will commit a crime again once they are out. No conscience. No morals...

Quoted: there should be more in jail, a lot more

there should be more executions, a lot more

There, fixed that for ya

I do believe that cocaine is the number 1 charge.  Yeah, we should make it legal.

Quoted: In other words, about seven tenths of one percent of the American population is imprisoned. The last time that number was around one million was circa 1990. That is nearly 2 decades ago. Then, there was a little over 50 million less people. That means, that the increase in US Prison population really equates to an addes 3 tenths of one percent of the US population being locked up. Not a very big jump if you look at the numbers, is it. Damn. That just don't seem right....some would say....Police State? Then what do you say we should do with criminals ?Are you willing to house them for free at your place?

Well that is the most ridiculous leap of logic I've read.  How many non-criminals do you house at your place for free?
*rolls eyes*

If/when called for a jury, there are VERY few crimes I would ever convict on.  Damn few.  But since only idiots are allowed to sit on juries...  the 'state' won't have to worry about that.

Did you really think that we want those laws to be observed? ...We want them broken... We're after power and we mean it... There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws. Who wants a nation of law-abiding citizens? What's there in that for anyone? But just pass the kind of laws that can neither be observed nor enforced nor objectively interpreted - and you create a nation of law-breakers - and then you cash in on guilt. (Dr. Floyd Ferris, Atlas Shrugged)

You're right.  The numbers of those in prison is too high.

About one third of those imprisoned should be swinging from a rope.

Quoted: As long as they're imprisoning the right people, I'm okay with it. It's imprisoning people for bullshit that makes me mad.

yup

Quoted: I don't like the amount of money that we are spending on prisons either. That doesn't mean that I want the prisoner released. I'd just rather see them spend their own time growing their own food instead of lifting weights and getting huge for their inevitable release date.

Yep.  Doesn't even have to be forced labor.  Just let them know that the amount they eat is dependent upon the amount they grow.

Thats proof our so called justice system is just a system that doesn't work.

Quoted: i would once again remind you that there are plenty of people in prison who shouldn't be there. Olofson anyone? Shall we give him a year to improve and then execute him? (nevermind that he can incur a disciplinary record from merely defending himself from real thugs while in there) sometimes i really wonder about you seemingly hard nose law and order types, i wonder if you'd still carry the same tune if you found yourself behind bars for something like having a round of ammo in the vehicle when going into a commie state or bouncing too many checks or having your pistol malfunction and go burst. Maybe the universe should give you exactly what you think you want, so that maybe you realize you dont really want it at all. its all black and white, open and shut huh? everyone in prison is a murderer or a scumbag or a deviant huh? everyone who isnt is by default a better person huh? i think ill go tear the tags off some mattresses brb.

If your father plans on just stealing from others to get by, he is by definition a shitbag. Makes it hard to buy that he just got railroaded

People here disappoint me..... they don't actually look at the statistics and realize what is going on. Wouldn't people learn what anti-gunners do with statistics?

Here is the problem:

The numbers include jails. Well, we routinely take the same people to jail. So, if I take the same pick pocketing, robbing, whore to jail 15 times this year (before all her cases are combined and she gets sentenced) she counts as 15 different people that were in jail.

This routinely occurs..... nevermind the people that are arrested where the charge is a jail walk through, transferred to other jails for other charges, etc.

Of course, let's blame the war on drugs Just curious, how many people in prison for drug charges were not charged with other crimes?? The dope charges are usually the ones that people pled out to. Why? Well, the problem is the dope. The crimes they commit are because of the habit. So, they take the plea, get a lighter sentence, drug counseling, and mandatory rehab when they get out.

But, of course, GD knows all about how the system actually works and what people are imprisoned for.

How many are actual americans?

Quoted: We should execute everyone in jail and use the money saved on the National Science Foundation and NASA.

I'll second that.  If you are in for 10 plus you get the permaban hammer.

Unless you count "Mexicans" in American prisons as "Americans" I think your numbers are off.  There may be 2.3 million "people" in American prisons but they are not all Americans.  There are Canadians, Mexicans, Russians, Brits, Venezuelans etc. etc. etc.........

Quoted: We should execute everyone in jail and use the money saved on the National Science Foundation and NASA.

What a brilliant idea...we can execute ALL of them...including the arfcommer who's rifle had a malfunction and those two Border Patrol agents who apprehended the mexican drug dealer.  Because everyone in prison needs to die

Quoted: How many are actual americans?

Quoted: Why on Earth are so many Americans in jail? I remember just a few years ago the big number was 1 million Americans imprisoned....why the heck has it shot up so high and where did all the prisons pop up to hold them? It's just a crazy number. 2.3 Million. We spend more money imprisoning American's every year than these Agencies annual Budgets: Department of Agriculture Department of Veterans Affairs Department of Labor Department of Transportation Department of Education Department of Justice & the entire Judicial Branch of our Govt Department of HomeLand InSecurity Department of Energy NASA WE Spend more money on imprisoning Americans than the entire budget of the Judicial Branch of our Govt, the Executive Branch(minus DOD), and Congress's budget....COMBINED. Damn. That just don't seem right....some would say....Police State?

If I am not mistaken your figures mean that .76 percent of the US population is in prison.

That means 99.24% of Americans are free.

What's the problem?

Quoted: Who's in jail?  I remember reading a breakdown of who was in jail and who wasn't.  Let's see, how did that work again. It's slipping my mind.

ha haaaa.  you going there huh  :)

Quoted: Quoted: I think it's the so-called "war on drugs".

You know what, I think a lot of the war on drugs is crap but I also firmly believe that if they were selling/using illegal drugs they were also most likely doing other illegal stuff too.  Not much of a defensible position I know but it is what I think.

If you are not smart enough to to not get caught 3 times or stay off the weed/crack, you are most likely too stupid be a productive member of society anyway.

Quoted: I think it's the so-called "war on drugs".

BULL SHIT

US BCJ:



Note that 'Drugs' includes all drug offenses, including dealing/smuggling/conspiracy/etc...

Quoted: As the ancient Chinese philosopher Lao-Tse said, "The more laws that are written, the more criminals are produced".

"... laws were most numerous when the commonwealth was most corrupt." -- Tacitus, Annals 3.27

Quoted: Quoted: dave thats actually how it happened, and the 2 mil figure is total net worth. Never had an attorney until he was charged. I'm sure you honestly couldn't concieve not having an attorney in this case, but I bet you also couldnt concieve of year round deer hunting as a primary food source or growing up without indoor plumbing either. Im willing to bet there is a lot in life you cant concieve. As for your trying to hide behind being a dumb hick remark, thats cute. I wonder if you are as cute as your remark, or if your legs must be shaven to reach the same cuteness level. Forgive me. His operation was essentially leased land, a mix of borrowed, bought, and leased equipment, and "dumb hicks" were all that made up the work force from top to bottom. Even the mine inspector who came by was "a dumb hick". And I dont think a lawyer or accountant would've helped anyway, the one (and only)local such fellar at the time went to prison himself for essentially talking his clients into cheating the gov a little along and somehow keeping that skimmed portion for himself. eta the business was incorporated, prob had the county attorney help him with that, and the books and payroll were handled (properly minus withholding) by his 3rd wife. And who the fuck pays their own taxes, doesnt withhold from employees, and tries to get away with "it"? get away with what? not making a single extra fucking dime from doing so? loved his workers that much did he? sumtimes i do not like you at all. this is one of those times. im pouring this bourbon shot i was holding for you down the dogs throat instead.

No, by not withholding for his employees, he also gets away with not paying half of the SS and Medicare taxes for all of his employees...

Credible legal and financial advisors would have kept him out of jail - but if the only attorney in town is a tax cheat/IRS-conspiracy-idiot... Not much luck there...

The fact is, the IRS sees something like that and assumes by default it was intentional, and that the 'come clean' plea is just an attempt to cover tracks/stay out of jail...

They hear that shit about as often as a police officer hears 'But I have to pee' when he was asking why a driver was speeding....

Quoted: Quoted: As long as they're imprisoning the right people, I'm okay with it. It's imprisoning people for bullshit that makes me mad. yup

The vast majority of inmates are there for violent crimes...

The runner-up is property crime...

Drugs is 3rd

And 'social order offenses' (What you would probably call bullshit) is dead last....

Quoted: How many are actual americans?

The vast, vast majority...

The prison population (nationwide) is about 11% Hispanic, as of the last year that racial-breakdown stats are available...

And that 11% includes citizen, illegal, and legal criminals...

The one racial group significantly over-represented is blacks (something that Sharpton and Jesse remind us of constantly, and try to twist into 'our problem' as a nation rather than 'their community's problem')....

The morons who say 1/3 are illegal immigrants, are full of shit

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: a lot of em need vocational training worse than jail, hell theres a lot that if they had a shot at something even a couple dollars better than minimum wage they probably wouldnt be in jail to begin with Wrong, most of them have no desire to work or be responsible. Why go to work everyday when you have welfare. Jail for a lot of people is better than home and a way of life. If you took away all the pleasant things in jail..t.v. ,weights, visits and made it hell some might think again. All the programs look good to politicians and on paper but in reality all prisons and jails are  warehouses were criminals feed off each other, make more connections, learn how to work the system and to be better criminals. while i have zero empathy for career criminals your statement is 100% MSM bullshit, not all people in prison should be in prison, nor do they choose to stay there because it's a free ride. Prisons have become a honey pot for corporate profit, it's hard to pay low wages if they don't have prisoners. Sure, there are a lot of prisoners that rescind but the privately owned prisons have an agenda and without prisoners their goal cannot be reached. The war on drugs and the outright criminalization of personal freedom is all about profit for the system

The stats don't bear the above out...

The VAST majority of criminals are in for either violent crime or theft....

Quoted: A large percentage of them aren't even Americans.

Only if you call 'less than 11%' a large percentage...

11% IS NOT 33% but if your rifle jams once every 10 shots, is that a lot ?

If your father plans on just stealing from others to get by, he is by definition a shitbag. Makes it hard to buy that he just got railroaded

lol its not that he plans to steal, it was a statement meant to convey "i'll never work again, tried that, they jailed me, i'll just live on social security from now on" which to him is a form of stealing. He doesnt literally plan to steal, hell he is pushin 70 years, not much of a chance at successful burgalary at that age.

Dave I get what you say there, that to the IRS it probably seemed like some cop out they've heard before, but you have to understand rural appalachia. In my AO, outside the 3 towns, its pretty much wilderness. The jobs are in the towns, and pretty much taken. Work occuring outside the towns are things like mining and logging and are for the most part done by "dumb hicks" who know how to mine and log even if they dont know how to tap dance to the governments tune.

Shit right now I know of at least 1 illegal mining operation, very small time, just 2 jeeps, a backhoe, and 1 truck, and they are using anfo charges for blasting. Illegal as hell, no one is payin any taxes there, and they are just making enough to feed themselves.

Personally I'd advise they grow pot, but mining is what that particular clan knows, so I say god bless them. Let us not forget that there are plenty of people in prison for things that shouldn't even be illegal or dont reflect the will of the people for that matter.

Hell in local jails here we got plenty of people in jail for bootlegging right now. I guarantee you we got more alcoholics than hardcore baptists, but the coalition of hypocrite bible thumpers and bootleggers themselves set the anti-alcohol agenda, we are not dry because such is the will of the people.


ETA Dave, sorry if i got a lil bitchy at ya there, I am pledged to give my life for the patriarch if needed, so, no hard feelings. I realize you might not understand that, its a clan /cornbread thang brother.