Major -

That is pretty weak stuff compared to "anti-Semite, Nazi, bin Laden sympathizer, unfaithful to our allies, etc" all of which has been thrown at me.

Futher, i don't even reference your name in that post.

My point is this - Nazi, anti_semite and bin Laden sypathizer could all get my house fire bombed by people today, because of the inflammatory nature of the rhetoric.

"Tories" most poeple wouldn't even understand the reference.

If, in your mind, "Tories" equates with "nazis" then we have little left to discuss.

Typical. And proving my point YET again.

You simply are INCAPABLE of rationally discussing the points I make without using inflammatory rhetoric like "Nazi, white supremacist."

Its almost funny to watch. Pavlov's dog.

Then we can expect to see Arabs attacking Mongolia soon right??? Or Luxembourg, right????

BUAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

LMAO

Its like shootin' fish in a barrel.

garandman,

No, in my mind "Torie" equates with TRAITOR.
Which is much worse than questioning one's patriotism.
You said it.  If now your saying you didn't mean me, fine.  You meant some of the other members, though, didn't you?
And now in this thread you complain about the same treatment.  HYPOCRITE.

You've complained about the Israeli's "pious, holier than thou" attitudes, too.
HYPOCRITE.






 

Don't be clownish.  It doesn't become you.
I merely pointed out an historical fact.

Whatever, Major.

More to the point is that i didn't even mention your name, or quote ANYTHING from you in that post.

Lastly, it is a 200+ year old archaic term meant in jest. I HARDLY think it equates with "Nazi, white supremacist, binladen, sympathizer, anti-Semite, traitorus to our allies," all of which can get you hailed in front of a Geneva court for allegations of genocidal thought and attitude.

[rolleyes]

OK - I'll point out a grammatical fact.

"Historical" woulkd be preceeded by the article "a" , NOT "an."

[}:D]

We do LOTS of weird things down here. My kinda place. [:D]


Peace.

...maybe in South Carolina .
[:D]

orginally posted by Garandman:


Logically speaking, Bin Laden  did nothing to us till after the Gulf War.  Why not?  We were supporting Israel before then.  Its simple "casutive logic"?

I think he was busy with the Russians before that. [rolleyes]

Yes, simple, causitive logic.

We created bin Laden to fight the Russians starting in the late 60's, early 70's.s.

We continued funding him, up until probably the late 70's, early 80's, when he waxed the Ruskies, thank you very much.

Somewhere along the way, we decided to give israel our missiles (and other ordnance), which were used - surpirse, surprise - to kill Arabs.

Causation?? maybe, maybe not. But it SCARES me when people are UNWILLING to even look at the possibility. "There are NONE so bind as those who WILL NOT see."

Would you be talking about "...the shores of Tripoli..."?

Sorry Maynard but Jews were learning Astronomy from the Babylonians when the Greeks were still living in caves and speaking in monosyllables and even muslims were mostly illiterate up until the 1400s(Mohammad never did learn to read).The Egyptians,Greeks,Romans and yes even the Jews are all "borrower" cultures that made their own contributions to what they learned from the Babylonians(who learned much from the Sumerians) but unlike most of those other cultures Habiru were constantly in the roles of tutor and artisan.Much of the greatness of Islamic culture was created by their Jewish slaves and when the Jews left,it froze them in time.That's why their culture is stuck in the 1500s and has barely progressed since the Jews left.Read the history of the Moors and their dependence on Jews and you will see what I mean.

It's always been the same thing throughout history

1)Jews invited into primitive culture to share ideas and enrich culture.

2)Success and moderniztion brought to that civilization cause Jews to be thought of as neccessary to the success of that culture.

3)Jews prosper and become a sort of intellectual class.

4)Economic downturns and/or nationalist movement starts.Jews are resented and turned into a sort of skilled slave labor or subcaste but still expected to provide innovation and modernization.

5)Jews resented because they continue to prosper even as slaves and are eventually murdered in large numbers because they have already instructed several generations of their hosts in the skills needed to maintain progress and are no longer needed.


6)Jews are "rescued" by another culture who wants the benefits of their talented people

7)The process starts all over again


It has happened with the Egyptians,Poles,Germans,Muslims,Babylonians,
Assyrians,Hellenists,Russians,Spainiards,etc,etc

The end result has always been the same

Envy/Use/Resentment/Abuse/Disposal



SOPMOD M4A5

Post from garandman -

That's where we part company, my friend, because I think that 'neutrality' in the face of car bombs, suicide bombers in market places, attacks on civilians at bus stops, sniper fire at civilians, desecration of cemeteries, and the like [b]requires[/b] non-neutrality!

Add to these atrocities, the avowed aim of the Palestinians to create a state 'from the River to the Sea' and the complete destruction of the Israelis, and I think both you and I know where the Lord would stand in that day of battle.

Once the Palestinians are successful in ridding the Holy Land of those vermin 'Jews', I am quite confidant that your sister will no longer be harassed by the police for handing out any Christian tracts or pamphlets. She will simply be arrested!

And in that perfect paradise on earth then to be known as the 'Islamic Republic of Palestine'
your sister would most likely be beheaded after the next morning's prayers.

It's as simple as that folks!

Eric The(Come,LetUsReasonTogether)Hun[>]:)]

You really are that ignorant aren't you?

The Muslims have waged a war of insurgency in Mongolia for centuries!Are you that ignorant of the world sitrep?I was reading about this stuff in SOF when I was a child and have recently seen several Dicovery/History/etc/etc documentaries on that very subject.If you would try to understand our nation's enemies by reading the filth they spew onto the net and in print instead of just making up crap as you go along you would know what you were talking about.Muslim extremists are being executed in western China(for murder) right now!Terrible suffering at Islamic Extremist hands is occurring world wide to countries that hate Israel just because they don't agree with radical Islam.


Get educated

[url]www.azzam.com[/url]

Try this:

[url]http://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/30/science/social/30ISLA.html[/url]

Uhhh, re:  Mongolia....

I was referring to an "attack" akin to Sept. 11, 2001. Not a "war of insurgency."

But it was MY error for not spelling it out for teh unwashed masses.

SOF???

Really?? You debutante, you. [}:D][rolleyes]

And of sourse, you COMPLETELY omit refernce to the european Crusaders, revenge for which we can expect a Sept. 11 type attack anytime soon on Rome, and Luxembourg. Right???

Yeesh. You ARE pretty handy with the insults tho. The trick is, in "insulting" people with solid logic, WITHOUT using phrases like "you are ignorant."

Any Cretan can say "you are ignorant."

Oh I suppose you speak Tagalog and learned Kali from Angel Cabalez as well.Big deal!A veiled threat is still a threat and all I have to say to yourthreat is............


Or What?



I'm "calling a spade a spade" and not mincing any words.You sound like a moron,you are cluless about the facts of this sitrep but won't admit to having any axe to grind.

Hmmmm?You must be a moron!If you are not a moron then you must be
intentionally evil and I find ignorance far easier to forgive than evil so be glad that I think you are a moron;)


BTW: There are a couple of fellows on this board that I would hesitate to have angry with me and guess what?

YOU ARE NOT ONE OF THEM!!!:D

By the way, I beleive the archaic spelling of "Jewes" when referring to the "Jews" is anti-Semitic.

[}:D]

Eric:  Let me first say that I've always enjoyed your posts.  You are a rarity on this board.  You are a very articulate member who is clearly "well read."

Having said this, and at the risk of being branded an anti-Semite by some of the more irrational individuals on this board, I would like to ask you this:

Why are you such a passionate advocate for Israel??  

Your posts don't just imply "support," but almost a "cultish" adoration of the state.

I support all our allies, even Israel.  I personally believe we have no stronger ally in the Middle East. But even I acknowledge that sometimes when you walk through the mud, you can get dirt on your shoes.

I have never seen a post made by you in which you critized Israeli domestic or foreign policy.

In short, what gives?

To reiterate, this is not intended as a flame in any way.  I'm just curious why you are such a fervent, almost militant supporter of Israel.  

...so it's Rosh'ashannah(sp). During this holiday jews go to synagogue and as tradition has it, they blow the "Shofah", which is a ram's horn.  
Right outside the temple are these three black guys, just hanging out, shooting the breeze.

From inside the temple the hear a loud noise.

"AAAAAHHHHHOOOOOOOOOOO!  AAAAAHHHHOOOOOOOOO!"

So one black guy turns to the other and says, "Hey man! What the hell was that?"

"You don't know what that is?" replied his friend.

"No man, I don't" the first one says.

"Well, they're in there blowing the Shofah." answered the other.

The first guy ponders this and says:
"Man! Them jews sho' treats they help right."




Love that joke.

Actaully Jew,Jewe,Jewess,Yud,Yid etc.Are all a form of derogatory slang that have ended up being adopted by western Jews in place of their actual tribal name Yahuda(people of God)which in it's Roman/Latin Form is Judah(no Y sound in Latin).Sir Walter Scott was fond of Jew and he used the words Jewe and Jewess frequently in his work Ivanhoe I don't think it's insulting opr anti semitic.You could call me Yid,Yud,Jewe or whatever you think is appropropriate as long as you are a 1000 miles away on the internet and it won't bother me one lick.Hell even Germans are named after Germanicus who was their ancient enemy.That would have been an insult to any Tueton centuries ago but is now what everyone on the world calls them today and they don't seem to mind.

I just wonder why you call yourself Garandman though.You express so much sentiment that would have been contrary to the thought and opinions of the men who used that weapon to protect our freedom that it seem kinda weird that you would pick that name.


SOPMOD M4A5

Hey!
Don't you like that joke?
How about some LOLs or something...[:)]

Yeah.
Whatta ya gonna do?

I didn't get it.

As far as I knew before so many Jews moved to Europe about 1/6th of them were black themselves.

BTW, its "garanDman" You know, like the GaranD rifle????

I KNOW this will come as a shock to you, but I really DO NOT look for your approval as to what i pick for my username on internet discussion forums.

(I'll wait till you pick yourself up off the floor before continuing....)

Also, you are a bit presumptuous to ASSume to know the thoughts and opinions of the men who carried the rifle. Do you speak with them posthumously???

Lastly, you have no idea of what I think and beleive. You are too busy using words like "Nazi" and "white supremacist" to actually LISTEN to what others may be saying. You are too concerned with SILENCING my voice thru slanderous charachterizations, a mindset and tactics which I believe MAY WELL have been something US riflemen were opposed to.

Feel free to respond to this, and you'll have the last word. I do not wish to associate with your sort any further.

Humorless, too?
What a bore.

I was TOO AFRAID to LOL in a public forum for fear of SOPMOD hailing me a Nazi.

[:D]

Don't forget the Aztecs and the Chinese. [rolleyes]

And the Lilliputians and the Smurfs.

[}:D]

Actually, that was a pretty funny joke.  My only problem is that you seemed to be very forceful in your opposition to people sounding anti-Semetic in another thread:

[url]http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?id=63109&page=5[/url]

Yet in this thread, even though it was clearly meant as a joke, you have no problem with making what could be construed by some as racist stereotypical comments, right down to the "Amos and Andy" lingo.

How do you explain this?  Personally, it sounds like a case of selective indignation to me.

And yes, I was the author of the other thread in question.  You had no problem labling me anti-Semetic simply because I asked the question "why no Anthrax in Israel."  I guess we can label you a racist.

(edited to fix link)

I explain it quite easily.
I'm a little bit of a racist (who isn't?).
I'm also a tad anti-semitic (so sue me!).
I'm also an outright sexist. (gosh)

I don't let my prejudices get in the way of my judgement.  I use it to fuel my humor, though.
If you quack like a duck...

Jokes are jokes.

Insinuating that a Israel was behind the Anthrax or WTC attacks is different.

One is humor, the other is an attempt stir up distrust and hatred.

That is your opinion.  

You incorrectly assume/assumed I implied that Israel was behind the attacks.  You then proceded to lecture certain members on the evils of anti-Semitism and state that I was an anti-Semite by simply posting such a question.

Then you have the temerity to post a joke that could be construed as racist by the very intolerant yardstick you yourself created.

At least be consistent.

I'm glad you admit you are a racist and an anti-Semite.  At least the rest of the board will have a benchmark on which to measure your future posts by.

Post from MIerinMD -

Very good questions, indeed! I suppose that there are very many reasons that I am so pro-Israel and you are quite right that I don't just 'support' Israel, it's far more serious than that!

First, there is the religious aspect of my deep affection for the tiny State of Israel. Shall we admit the obvious and simply say it's a [u]Jewish[/u] state? Of course, there can be no disagreement on that!

The Lord gave the land to Abraham [b]forever[/b]! And we know that the Jews are the direct [u]legitimate[/u] physical heirs of Abraham. The question concerning whether the Jews are the [u]spiritual[/u] heirs of Abraham is still open for debate! And what a heated debate that is, by the way!

Nevertheless, for some strange and as yet unexplained reason, the Lord has kept the Jews together as a 'race' (which it is surely not!), or as a 'tribe' (with all the invective that term may imply), or simply as a 'people' (which I believe to be the correct, though imprecise, term for them).

Why 'blindness' on the part of Israel has kept them from recognizing the significance of the greatest 'Jew' Who ever lived, I cannot explain. But the Apostle Paul said that this blindness would continue 'until the time of the Gentiles be fulfilled.' [[i]Romans 11:25[/i]] Which is remarkably similar to what Christ said in [i]Luke 21:24[/i] - that the City of Jerusalem would be trampled by Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

Well, for almost 2,000 years since Christ uttered that dire warning, Jerusalem had indeed been trampled by the Gentiles, until at least that one fateful afternoon in 1967 when an Israeli soldier ran into the area of the Wailing Wall and, as a Jewish representative of a Jewish nation, touched the foundation of the Temple of Solomon for the first time in [i][b]millenia![/b][/i]

And I seriously doubt that the Jews will be willing to part with the control of 'their city' anytime soon! Can you say 'never'?

Let me close here, but I will later post my other reasons for militancy on behalf of Israel.

Eric The('Fundamentalist'ButIMeanThatInTheVeryBestWay)Hun[>]:)]

What a pompous ass.
EVERYONE has predjudices.
EVERYONE. (even garanman [:)])
Even you.

Your post:
[b]Doesn't anybody find it strange that Israel hasn't come under anthrax attack? Our support of Israel is one of the reasons why the Arab world hates us and is a major reason why we've been attacked. Wouldn't it seem likely that they would attack Israel as well if they had the ability??

I mean even Poland has reported positive anthrax mail for Christssake. Yet NO attacks on Israel.

Gotta admit....something really isn't adding up.
[/b]

If that's not insinuating possible Israeli complicity, then what is?
If it is, then I can't help but draw the conclusion I did.

I have told that joke at a party to some of my MANY black and jewish friends.  It went over quite well.  Everyone laughed.  No one was offended.  Humor is humor.
If you try making the insinuations that you did above, in any social setting, people will draw one conclusion:

That you are an anti-semitic conspiracy buff.
What else could they possibly see in that insinuation?

I don't think your a Bin Laden sympathizer, but you certainly sound like a Bin Laden rationalizer.  Furthermore, I've never seen how any man who claims to know Jesus would have any ill will towards the Jews.  God's blessing is still upon the people of Israel, and some people mistakenly apply it to the church in the New Testament.  Look specifically at Revelations Chapter 7, where the 144,000 of the twelve tribes are saved by the blood of the lamb and the are marked with the symbol of god so that none of the coming plagues will harm them.



If we ended our alliance with Israel would it change anything?



I need to drop a few pounds, but other than that I'm happy with who I am as a person.  And I don't run away with my tail tucked between my legs when someone says I'm wrong.

God Bless Texas

As a side note:
All of the people who think that Jews are happy about the WTC incedent are way off base.The main reason most Jews never make Aliyah to Israel is because of the terrorism there.I personally wanted to make Aliyah but feared for the saftey of my wife and daughter because I have always known that Islam would eventually wage a war of total destruction against Israel and the Christian west and hoped that it would never make it to the shores of the United States.I even made arrangements to make Aliyah and only called them off when my then girlfriend got pregnant and I found myself having to care about the fate of my family not just myself.It makes the conservative Jew mad as hell that the one place they thought they would be safe from that crap is no longer safe and now we sit here in the aftermath of this attrocity with our Beliefs and our nation under attack by an enemy that has sworn to erradicate our race and cripple our adopted homeland.There is not a single Jew that is happy about that.The USA has joined France,Italy,Russia,Sudan,Yugoslavia,Phillipines,Spain,China and yes Israel as victims of the World Wide Islamic Jihad and it had very little to do with support of Israel.In fact before the modern state even existed the Muslims aligned themselves with every enemy that has ever expressed an interest in murdering Jews.Most Islamic countries sided with the Nazis during WWII just because they wanted to aid in the murder of Jews.The founder of the Palestinian movement went to Nazi Germany and met with Adolph Hitler to offer his support in his war against the Jews.The link is so clear that it boggles the mind when others fail to see it.That is part of why it is so easy to use the word Nazi and Islamic Apologist in the same sentence.It's a fact of history.White supremacists seem to always have sympathy for the the Palestinian terrorists even when they are attacking their own homeland!They blame the USA for backing Israel and basically excuse the acts of these murderers by making a knee jerk response that makes Israel the scape goat for all of the USA's foreign policy problems without even once looking at the long history of anti American sentiment and terror in which Israel is almost never mentioned.Palestinians and Arabs(they are not the same thing)are oportunists who link their causes together in an effort to broaden support for their actual agendas and could really give a damn about each other.


Several people have posted facts to this end and cited examples of why that is true but these guys continue their rhetoric without even acknowledging the undeniable truth of those statements.


We have been fighting the muslims since Tripolli

The USMC Barracks in Beirut was bombed because we were protecting Lebanese Christians from Muslim Radicals

The Iranian hostage incedent was due to US support of the Shah of Iran

Iraq invaded Kuwait to reclaim their boundaries set out during the reign if the Ottoman Empire and to steal their oil.

Libya sponsored terror against the USA due to Soviet encouragement and a desire to revoke US corporate oil leases in Libya so that they would revert them to state control.

Those are all facts and nobody seems to pay attention to them.Instead it's bash Israel and the Jews time.

Why?

 

Yes I do.  I just don't measure others by theirs.



WRONG.  I can't help it if you have a problem processing information.  I never implied that Israel was behind the attack.  I just thought it odd that they had not been hit yet. A simple observation which you failed to grasp.  It was simply a "why not?" question.



I laughed so hard at this I gave myself a headache.  [b]"My MANY black and jewish friends."[/b] Is that your attempt at displaying your tolerance bona-fides? I'll be sure to nominate you for the Nobel Peace Prize next year.

(Wasn't there a commercial that said something like, "then you are prejudiced because you consider Bobby your "Jewish friend" and not your "friend"?)

Do you have any idea how ridiculous that sounded?



I bet you're quite the "cut-up"



No.  Only people who either cannot grasp the simplicity of a question or have an unresolved Freudian conflict would come to that conclusion.

"Methinks thou doth protest too much"

MIerinMD's post:
[b]"Doesn't anybody find it strange that Israel hasn't come under anthrax attack? Our support of Israel is one of the reasons why the Arab world hates us and is a major reason why we've been attacked. Wouldn't it seem likely that they would attack Israel as well if they had the ability??

I mean even Poland has reported positive anthrax mail for Christssake. Yet NO attacks on Israel.

Gotta admit....something really isn't adding up."
[/b]

I then said:
If that's not insinuating possible Israeli complicity, then what is?
If it is, then I can't help but draw the conclusion I did.

MierinMD:
WRONG.  I can't help it if you have a problem processing information.  I never implied that Israel was behind the attack.  I just thought it odd that they had not been hit yet. A simple observation which you failed to grasp.  It was simply a "why not?" question.

BULLSHIT.  A simple observation? A "Why not?"?
Please.  
It's an insinuation.
Plain and simple.
Obvious.
Transparent.
If you deny this, you lie.

Think OUTSIDE the box. Forget we are talking about bin Laden for a minute. Follow this scenario: Say we created Tom the Cat(from the cartoon Tom and Jerry) to fight the Soviets. we funded him, and then used him to do our bidding, to defeat the USSR. Then we changed allegiances, and sided with jerry, and provided jerry the missiles and ordnance to kill lots of Tom cats. Should Tom be pissed at us??? Rougly speaking, that is what we have done to bin Laden. We'd be pissed if someone did that to us. And we expect bin Laden to "be the bigger man?" Illogical.




NO ONE, with even a casual reading of my posts, could HONESTLY interpret me as having ANY ill will toward [strike] the Jew [/strike]those of Jewish decent (edited for MajorMurphy). I have clearly said I wish them ALL the blessings of God, as provided in Scripture. In fact, I have said that the WORST form of anti-Semitism imaginable is to convey to them that they can gain favor with God by ANY OTHER MEANS than the crucified and risen Saviour, the lord jesus Christ. Giving them  false understanding of this truth will send them to Gehenna. THAT, my good Texan friend, IS anti-Semitism.



While there is a grain of truth in what you say (Scripturally, Isreal is made up of ALL believers in Christ for ALL time, NOT just teh church) , I would LOVE to debate this point with you in detail. But be warned, I am loaded for bear. i am writing a book on this very subject, and I am as close to being an expert on this subject as ANY subject I have an opinion on (which are MANY [:D]) Probably BEST conducted OFF site. I'll wait for your reply.



Starting your proof texts in Revelation, which is full of analogy, allegory, similie, metphor, and subject to W-I-D-E interpretation is probably not the best way to go.








Is making ANY US policy off-limits to a thorough review for reasonability a GOOD idea??? That's the tone I get from you guys.

May God bless GodBlessTexas.

It's true.The Israelis haven't had their planes hijacked,their mail poisoned or their emabssies attacked with any degree of frequency.I'm betting that they just have everything locked down pretty tight.They inspect ever deserted bag,purse,shopping bag or package left in the open like it's a bomb and they open suspicious mail before ever letting it get into the country.Frequently I would get packages from home while I was there and they would be repackaged and have a big security sticker on them.They probably locked down their mail the second they heard what was happening and started sending all foreign mail to the food irradiators weeks ago.They depend on their individual citizens for security and safety unlike the US who tries to hide what is really going on to keep us "sheep" from panicking.I sure hope we get our act together and start forming civilian security forces and start drafting young people and teach them something other than how to stael stereos and play video games.That might just turn us around as a nation

And you called ME a pompous ass! What are you? In 5th grade?  Simply because you believe it to be doesn't make it true.  And me denying it doesn't indicate that I'm lying.

Let me walk you through this, Junior.

1) If I was an anti-Israel conspiratorialist, why bother to deny it?  So I can seek your approval?  I already don't have it, so what's there to lose?

2) Observing a fact and stating it is not implying that someone did something. If I was #1 above, I would have just said "Israel is behind it."  I can't help it if you have a problem processing info.

3) Me saying "something doesn't add up.." may also IMPLY that I feel that something else may be in store for Israel.  Did that possibility even occur to you?  Or were you just so confident in your self-righteousness.

Be a man, admit you read my post wrong.  Apologize and move on.

Its IS possible, MajorMurphy, that you read my follow up to MIerinMD's thread opener, where I mistook the meaning of his thread, and applied my mistaken reading to MI's intent.

In fact, i suggested MIerinMD get a tin foil hat. But later, realized I had misread his thread.

Take a look and see.