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Posted: 8/1/2005 5:20:13 PM EDT
[#1]
The Waffen SS and the US Marines were about the same size. They both considered themselves elite assault troops. They both fought very well. They both took very high casualties. They both had esprit de corps. Last but not least, much of the training of today's Marine officers is based on their well-tested techniques.
Well, I spent several years earning a college degree in military history, and have been assiduously reading it ever since. And, as I mentioned above, I was a career Marine officer. It doesn't insult me to be compared to other elite military units. On the contrary. If we could reincarnate those guys and put them in a different uniform, they'd be kick-ass Marines. |
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Posted: 8/1/2005 5:22:08 PM EDT
[#2]
My god, he does look like mr.rogers
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Posted: 8/1/2005 5:27:22 PM EDT
[#3]
You could not have met him. He died by his own hand before the War ended. It was that or be executed. |
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Posted: 8/1/2005 5:31:16 PM EDT
[#4]
The KK was a WWII award, not a WWI award. It did not have to be earned with feats of personal valor, it could be awarded for leadership. Though some where awarded it along with the IK1 and IK2 (like at eban emal) most earned it in a progression through all the other awards. The basic KK was awarded a lot more often than say the Medol of Honor. German awards really can't be compared to the American paridigm of BS, SS, DSC or MoH. It is still impressive and a great picture. Does your family have a title? If you post the picture and what information you have on him on http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/ somebody will probably be able to give you an extensive history on you Good luck. |
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Posted: 8/1/2005 5:34:11 PM EDT
[#5]
Why on earth would you think that? |
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Posted: 8/1/2005 5:37:20 PM EDT
[#6]
es geht mir gut! |
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Posted: 8/1/2005 5:41:19 PM EDT
[#7]
Und mir auch. |
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Posted: 8/1/2005 5:42:14 PM EDT
[#8]
Oly,
You have NOIDEAWHATYOUARETALKINGABOUT  The Waffen SS were soldiers period, the allegemaine (sp) were the guys with a thin brown piping on their uniform and were the murderous swine of the SS that they all get accused of being. Waffen were elite units. Period. Try reading a bit of military history that wasnt written by limp wristed liberal revisionists. People like to see the black uniforms and run around crying murderers... that is total crap. The Eastern Front BECAME a savage battleplace, but did not start out that way. Do some actual study on the conduct of the average SS soldat, and the ABSOLUTE non fraternization policies they had in place. They would hang their own men for touching the Russian women. Whereas the Russians peasant conscripts were inhumanly brutal to German citizens upon overrunning Germany. My good friends Grandfather was Waffen SS and was CONSCRIPTED from his farm, with his brothers... press ganged is the way he described it. Bah! Enough, trying to convince you of anything is a total waste. Do a little study before you open your sewer. Guess what symbol Marine Corps snipers use unofficially???? Cant guess??? The SS runic lightning bolts, stand for Scout Sniper. So, you wanna tell me again how much Marines would not like the association with an Elite unit with a fierce reputation again? Huh? Whatever. Rodent, your uncle was likely a good Prussian. Can you say his name? Or is that verboten? Dram out |
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Posted: 8/1/2005 5:44:29 PM EDT
[#9]
Is that not Erwin Rommel? If it is,and i'm pretty darn sure it is, than what I said is fact. He was suspected to be behind the attempted assasination of Hitler. Der Fuherer gave him a choice, commit suicide and save face in front of the German people and your wife gets your pension and will call it a natural death and you will get the honors your position is entitled to orrrrrrr.., Be executed, loose face and your family will live in disgrace. |
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Posted: 8/1/2005 5:48:20 PM EDT
[#10]
+1 And for the record, the nazi cuckoo clock was f'ed up, too. |
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Posted: 8/1/2005 5:48:47 PM EDT
[#11]
I did not know your great Uncle so I do not think anything of him. If you are trying to get a rise out of people because he is wearing a German Uniform it will not work with me.
I am very happy I was born in the United States and am very Patriotic. Hell I have been Patriotic my entire life way back before it got so popular and trendy. I hated the commie Soviets and although the German Nazis were long out of power when I was born I found a place to hate them even though I am of German and Austrian/Hungarian ancestory. I might get flamed for this, but I have always thought that if I would have been born in Germany in the 20's or 30's I would have been a hard core Nazi motherfucker. If I had been born in the Soviet Union I most likely would have been a commie bastard! I am a Nationalist and love this Country to the core. I think if I would have been born somewhere else I just might have loved that Country just as much. |
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Posted: 8/1/2005 5:53:03 PM EDT
[#12]
Carl Rodenburg (now you know why "Rodent" was my callsign, painted on the side of my F-4) Here's another pic of the Generalleutnant:  ETA he's on the right, Paulus is seated. |
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Posted: 8/1/2005 5:54:24 PM EDT
[#13]
Let's look at the history. USMC founded as part of the USN to fight enemy Marines on warships, and as boarding and security details. SS founded as the personal bodyguard for Adolph Hitler. USMC Pledges to protect the US from all enemies, foriegn and domestic, as well as follow the order of all NCO's and officers appointed above them, and to protect the US Constitution. SS Pledges their life to Adolph Hitler. USMC pledges to protect the Constitution............. What is that? Set up the US goevernment, as a representative form of government. Also list some of the individual freedoms that each citizen may excercise. SS pledges to protect Hitler. What does that mean? A failed Corporal, that killed the niece he was molesting, who became a politician. His party is based on the idea that there are several classes of people, the Aryans being the best, lesser humans habe no Rights, and only exsist to make life easier for the higher races. I could go on............ But the differences couldn't be more clear. Much of current training is based on SS fighting? No, it is based on combined arms warfare principles that were formulated by people like Rommel (Not SS, tried to kill Adolph) Guderian (Wehrmacht), with some of Patton, MaCarthur, and other's refinements added in over time. How many amphib landings did the SS do? How many air wings did they operate? How many heavy tanks did the USMC have? How many tank battles did they participate in? They would be terrible Marines. They would need to be constantly watched, just in case the decided to rape or kill civilians. They were at best ammoral. |
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Posted: 8/1/2005 5:55:23 PM EDT
[#14]
what the hell man thats not rommel its rodents great uncle. Im also not so sure someone didnt find a picture of Mr Rogers during halloween. My grandfather actualy visited his uncle and cousins in germany when he fought in WW2 , said of 3 brothers only one made it home.
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Posted: 8/1/2005 5:56:13 PM EDT
[#15]
Waffen SS Truppen waren politische Werkzeuge. Ihre Führer und die Truppen selbst wurden nicht für Kampf ausgebildet. Als verwendet als Kampftruppen, waren sie kein sehr wirkungsvolles. Nicht anders als die Japaner, die sie sein würden, shamed, um zurückzuziehen.
Ihre Führer und die Truppen selbst wurden nicht für Kampf ausgebildet. Schlafton meine amerikanischen Kameraden! |
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Posted: 8/1/2005 5:56:48 PM EDT
[#16]
Oly, just out of curiosity, may we know your military background? And college major?
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Posted: 8/1/2005 5:58:47 PM EDT
[#17]
who cares rodent it would be a very boring topic if everyone shared the same view.
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Posted: 8/1/2005 5:58:52 PM EDT
[#18]
i am no historian. so take it for what it is posted below. do your own research. there were many fine soldiers in the german army. by fine i mean very good at doing what soldiers do. but that war resulted in 100 to 150 million dead and the subsequent iron curtain. best not to forget the evil behind these guys. they did their duty.. they did their job and 150 million people went to an early grave. perhaps that should be the first thing we think of....
taken from http://www.geocities.com/Pentagon/7087/uk075.htm Location: The massacre took place on a field near a small village called Baugnez, not far from Malmedy, Ardennes (Bulge), Belgium. History: On December 17th 1944, 84 members of the US 285th Field Artillery Observation Battalion were killed by Waffen-SS soldiers of the Kampfgruppe Peiper. Current status: The field were the American soldiers were killed still exist, a house has been build near the sport. Not far from the actual spot is a monument dedicated to the victims of the massacre. The actual location of the massacre (1990). The actual location of the massacre (1990). The monument for the victims of the massacre (1990). The monument for the victims of the massacre (1990). References: * After the Battle magazine 4, pages 16-20 * Battle of the Bulge & liberation index 6 * De slag in de Ardennen in het oosten van de provincie Luik (route 3), page 8 * Battle of the Bulge, pages 183-192 |
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Posted: 8/1/2005 6:00:14 PM EDT
[#19]
I beleive he has the Oak leaf cluster as well on the cross? |
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Posted: 8/1/2005 6:04:26 PM EDT
[#20]
Well, I don't know if you look like him or not. But pretty interesting stuff nonetheless.
Amazing he survived what he did. Hard to imagine........ |
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Posted: 8/1/2005 6:05:38 PM EDT
[#21]
I could say I've stayed in a Holiday Inn Express......................twice. Lifelong studier of WW-II. Was in the US Army for 3 years. Just happened to spend 1.5 years in the 3ID, in the FRG. You may know it as the former West Germany. Lived in former SS barracks, on a former German Army Kassern. Spent time driving around during 2 Re-Forgers, where I met and talked with many former German Soldat's, including at least 1 SS man that fought in France. Find the factual errors in the post I made prior to the "says you" post of your's I just quoted. |
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Posted: 8/1/2005 6:07:07 PM EDT
[#22]
Unless you know something I don't, he surrendered with the remnants of the 6th army in January 1943. According to my dad, he spent three days with the NKVD (which is about two days and 23 hours longer than I would have lasted) before signing a confession. Khrushchev sent him back to West Germany in 1955. He lived into his eighties, I think. |
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Posted: 8/1/2005 6:11:57 PM EDT
[#23]
This is all very interesting, Even if he served on the German side, it's still important to know your heritage. I do see the resemblence.
My family being from the deep South, I probably had a few KKK members somewhere along the family lines.  Doesn't mean I condone it, but what's done it done.
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Posted: 8/1/2005 6:15:54 PM EDT
[#24]
Rodent thanks for sharing that.
My dad used to work with a guy who was a former SS member. |
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Posted: 8/1/2005 6:25:33 PM EDT
[#25]
Shit, Sorry about that Rodent. I would've bet money that that was Rommel. My apologies. |
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Posted: 8/1/2005 6:25:34 PM EDT
[#26]
Rodent
Thanks for sharing. With your background, Mil History, USMC... You could start some interesting topics in the history forum! Thanks again for sharing. OLY-M4gery, take a deep breath. This is a cool post. |
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Posted: 8/1/2005 6:25:38 PM EDT
[#27]
I just looked some stuff up. He died in 1992 at age 98!
Anyway, one last pic of the bad dude before I retire for the evening with images of wehrmacht soldaten dancing in my head: 
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Posted: 8/1/2005 6:27:15 PM EDT
[#28]
No sweat, I didn't see your second post until later. I wish I was related to Erwin! 
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Posted: 8/1/2005 6:31:23 PM EDT
[#29]
I wish I'd paid more attention to this stuff when more relatives were alive. Supposedly "ob der Tauber" was used after our name at one time. I tried to record family history from a few old relatives when I was in college, and they literally wouldn't say anything about the war. Is he wearing Oak leaves, too? I don't know anything but the Knight's Cross. I'll try that site. |
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Posted: 8/1/2005 6:41:40 PM EDT
[#30]
Hah! I'll remember that tidbit next time some candidate complains about how rough it is at OCS. |
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Posted: 8/1/2005 6:46:11 PM EDT
[#31]
"ob der Tauber" = whether that deaf ones |
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Posted: 8/1/2005 6:51:18 PM EDT
[#32]
Really?? ( and Im being serious here) Thats prety cool!! |
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Posted: 8/1/2005 7:05:41 PM EDT
[#33]
Ich habe nur sehr wenig Deutsch. Konnen Sie auf English, bitte? |
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Posted: 8/1/2005 10:50:09 PM EDT
[#34]
There's a brief bio of him in German at www.ritterkreuztraeger-1939-45.de/Infanterie/Rodenburg-Carl.htm . He joined up in 1912 and ended the war a 1st lieutenant, and spent the interwar period in the army. Just before the war he was a LTC in charge of an infantry school. He fought in France and Russia, and took over the 76th in early 1942; the unit was mentioned twice in dispatches. He received the Knight's Cross in October 1942, and oak leaves in January 1943 (the same day he surrendered, btw).
The 76th was defending the airfields to the west of the pocket in the later days of the siege. Soviet tanks had forced the Germans out of prepared fortifications, and the weather was so cold that they couldn't dig new fighting positions. They were overrun; from a nominal strength of 10,000 they were down to 600. Rodenburg surrendered on January 31, shortly after von Paulus. He may have written something; he's quoted in some web pages on military operations at Stalingrad. There's a book by Jochen Loser about the 76th ID, "Bittere Pflicht. Kamp und Untergang der 76" |
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Posted: 8/1/2005 11:22:05 PM EDT
[#35]
Great thread Rodent!!!!
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Posted: 8/1/2005 11:33:41 PM EDT
[#36]
He said (if my German isn't totally screwed): Waffen SS troops were politcal tools. Their Fuhrer and the troops weren't outiftted for fighting. The were frequent/y used as fighting troops and were not very successful. Not much different than the Japanese when they attacked, were shamed and pulled back. I miss the part about the American comrades. |
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Posted: 8/1/2005 11:36:37 PM EDT
[#37]
Hmm...Were you in Schweinfurt, Wuerzburg maybe? I left Germany in 1997. I'm sure you must remember Baumholder, Hohenfel, Grafenwoehr. Good times were had by all.
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Posted: 8/1/2005 11:51:17 PM EDT
[#38]
Kitzingen, Germany, Larson Barracks. |
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Posted: 8/1/2005 11:56:08 PM EDT
[#39]
My great great grandfather was an officer in the Confederate army,we had his sword until someone stole it when we moved. I am very proud of him.
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Posted: 8/2/2005 12:02:19 AM EDT
[#40]
Born May 17, 1894. Passed: November 5, 1992. He is listed as a well know person having the Rodenburg name that originated in 1296! Here is some other info I found that you probably already know. I made poor translations in bold. Ignore typos. Spellcheck isn't working for me. 1912 trat er in das Infanterieregiment 113 ein und nahm mit diesem am 1. Weltkrieg teil. Bei der Kapitulation bekleidete er den Rang eines Oberleutnants. In 1912 he was in the 113th Infantry Regiment and served in the first World War. At the end he became Oberleutnant. Nach Kriegsende wurde er in die Reichswehr übernommen und war u.a. Kompaniechef im Infanterieregiment 14 und Kommandeur des Infanterieregiments 12. Später, dann schon in der Wehrmacht, war er als Oberstleutnant Kommandeur des Lehrstabes der Infanterieschule in Döberitz. After the war he became commander of the 114th Infantry. Kater as part of the Wehrmacht he was Oberstleutnant Kommandeur over the teaching staff at teh Infantry school in Doeberitz. Im 2. Weltkrieg kämpfte er als Kommandeur des IR 203 im Frankreichfeldzug (1940) unter anderem im Raum Verdun und Toul. Mit diesem Regiment kämpfte er auch ab 1941 an der Ostfront, wo er unter anderem einen Übergang über den Dnjepr errang und die Stalin-Linie durchbrach. Fought in WWII as Commander the 103rd Infantry in the French campaign. With this same regiment he fought on the Eastern Front after 1941, where he errected a crossing over the Dnjepr and crossed the Stalin line. Anfang 1942 war er als Generalmajor Kommandeur der 76. Infanteriedivision, die unter anderem in Stalingrad kämpfte. Am 8. Oktober 1942 erhielt Carl Rodenburg das Ritterkreuz des Eisernen Kreuzes und am 31. Januar 1943 das 189. Eichenlaub des Ritterkreuzes. In the beginning of 1942, he was Generalmajor Kommandeur of the 76th Infantry and fought in Stalingrad. October 8, 1942 he received the Iron Cross. On January 31, 1942 he received the 189th Iron Cross with oak leaf (?) cluster. (This is actually three higher than a normal iron cross.) Am gleichen Tag geriet er im Kessel von Stalingrad in russische Gefangenschaft. Im Oktober 1955 kehrte er nach Deutschland zurück. On that same day he was imprisoned in Stalingrad. He returned to Germany in 1955. Sounds like a hell of a soldier to me. Had he been on our side everyone would be bowing down and visiting him in Arlington. |
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Posted: 8/2/2005 12:12:30 AM EDT
[#41]
That would mean on the Tauber River. Like the city of Rothenburg ob der Tauber. It's a beautiful city, still surrounded by a wall with emplacements and a cool medieval torture museum. |
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Posted: 8/2/2005 12:23:27 AM EDT
[#42]
Cool. I forgot about Kitzingen. The 3rd sure is keeping busy. |
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Posted: 8/2/2005 12:41:31 AM EDT
[#43]
Your German is better than mine, but I'll take a stab at it as well. Waffen SS troops were political tools. Your leaders and the troops themselves were not instructed for battle. Often used as battle troops, were not very effective. Unlike the Japanese who would not be ashamed, and not turn back. Your leaders and the troops themselves were not instructed for battle. Sleep sound my American comrade! |
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Posted: 8/2/2005 4:39:59 AM EDT
[#44]
[Thread Highjack] Berlin 92'-94 and Baumholder 95'-99', with 3 rotations down to Bosnia. I loved it over there. Took the wife back for our honeymoon. Now if I could only find some St. Valentines Heffe Weisen, it is better than Paulander.[/Thread Hijack] |
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Posted: 8/2/2005 4:42:22 AM EDT
[#45]
Knights Cross w/?? Oak leaves?? Sweet!! |
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Posted: 8/2/2005 4:48:10 AM EDT
[#46]
Lighten up, he did not mean any disrespect to Marines, you should study history, most of the SS were fighting units like regular German army, a small number of SS ran concentration camps or were part of special action groups that carried out genocide in occupied terrotories. To lump them all into the same category is absurd. |
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Posted: 8/2/2005 4:52:15 AM EDT
[#47]
Heretic!! Sacrilege!! Say what you will about the Marines and the SS, but there is no "D" in "Paulaner", and nothing is better! |
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Posted: 8/2/2005 5:05:33 AM EDT
[#48]
Would you burn me at the cross if I told you I did like the banana weisen with krystal weisen? 
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Posted: 8/2/2005 5:06:01 AM EDT
[#49]
Nice thread and good secondary discussions. Shame you didn't get talk to him Rodent, I bet he had some damn interesting stories to tell as most Whermark have that I have met.
On the topic of the Waffen SS one really has to look at the timeframe when one discusses them as a fighting force. The influence of the Whermark command lessoned as the war went on and Himmler's influence increased. Even the idealistic goal of the elite bit the dust with foreign SS divisions. As result of this many massacres were attributed to the Waffen SS not just Malmedy but from the destruction of Lidiche after the death of Heyrdich to Monte Sole in Italy not only soldiers, but civilians including women and children were killed. Admitably many under the threat of death and commanded by deaths head troops, SS-Totenkopfverbände. No the US Marines were quite brutal in the pacific but it's quite a stetch to compare the two in anyway other than size and the fact they considered themselves elite. The US simply has never had the equivalent of a political arm of the military and that factor alone makes comparing the SS of any type to the US military impossible. Tj |
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Posted: 8/2/2005 5:15:18 AM EDT
[#50]
The death camp business, took a large number of soldiers, and support people. Next, if 1/3 of your company is killing people, but you work in some other division............ when someone looks at the "big picture" does it really matter what sub-group you work in, or what the company does as a whole? Next, there were linked "massacres" along with some of Waffen SS material I linked. The Malmedy massacre, as well as the destruction of French village, and an Italian village by Waffen SS troops. We could go into the Waffen SS group that started the Warsaw Ghetto................. Funny thing is you'll notice that there are no little crimes against humanity listed for the Russian Front. Most SS units were on the Russian Front............... Not that most schools, or societies, teach about history from their own perspective. Or that during the Cold War, both the USSR, and Western Allies downplayed the combat seen by the other, and focused on what their troops did, right? One of the explanantions that was brought up after Malmedy, is that most of the SS troops involved had previously fought on the Eastern Front. They felt killing prisoners was a routine activity......................... en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_bulge The Waffen SS was the combat arm of the SS. They are part of the SS, you can't seperate them from their parent organization. |
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