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Posted: 1/15/2014 9:30:41 AM EDT
[#1]
Some states, like VA (at least when i lived there) won't allow a loaded rifle in the car. These allow you to have a loaded rifle caliber firearm in the vehicle.
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Posted: 1/15/2014 9:31:25 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: are you saying a 123g SST out of that 8" (appears to be around 8") barrel is similar to a .22lr? ETA: or a 62g TSX (for the 556 offerings) Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: An SBR is a Rifle, and therefore illegal to carry in the front seat loaded and uncased in my state. The law doesn't specify if it's an AR-15 pistol or a PF-9. Practical reasons are basically "use from or getting in and out of a car." Question is with such a short barrel, will your "rifle's" rounds have enough velocity to fragment reliably/properly inside soft tissue? I personally do not see a super short SBR as a respectable self defense weapon unless you specifically want the capability to perforate soft body armor. Without reliable fragmentation you're using a high capacity .22. I'd rather use a 9mm with Federal HSTs/Winchester Ranger/Speer Gold Dots if that's the case. Smaller and should provide more tissue damage. Maybe I'm ignorant though. are you saying a 123g SST out of that 8" (appears to be around 8") barrel is similar to a .22lr? ETA: or a 62g TSX (for the 556 offerings) |
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Posted: 1/15/2014 9:31:45 AM EDT
[#3]
To the extent that fun is a practical use, sure.
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Posted: 1/15/2014 9:32:50 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Fun, which is really the primary purpose of most guns. Maybe for you. |
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Posted: 1/15/2014 9:33:54 AM EDT
[#5]
I wish I could've bought one of the AK pistols before MD went full retard, I would have loved a 7.62x39 SBR.
Kharn Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 1/15/2014 9:38:12 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
A pistol, I can lay on the front seat. The law doesn't specify if it's an AR-15 pistol or a PF-9. Practical reasons are basically "use from or getting in and out of a car." Question is with such a short barrel, will your "rifle's" rounds have enough velocity to fragment reliably/properly inside soft tissue? I personally do not see a super short SBR as a respectable self defense weapon unless you specifically want the capability to perforate soft body armor. Without reliable fragmentation you're using a high capacity .22. I'd rather use a 9mm with Federal HSTs/Winchester Ranger/Speer Gold Dots if that's the case. Smaller and should provide more tissue damage. Maybe I'm ignorant though. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
An SBR is a Rifle, and therefore illegal to carry in the front seat loaded and uncased in my state. The law doesn't specify if it's an AR-15 pistol or a PF-9. Practical reasons are basically "use from or getting in and out of a car." Question is with such a short barrel, will your "rifle's" rounds have enough velocity to fragment reliably/properly inside soft tissue? I personally do not see a super short SBR as a respectable self defense weapon unless you specifically want the capability to perforate soft body armor. Without reliable fragmentation you're using a high capacity .22. I'd rather use a 9mm with Federal HSTs/Winchester Ranger/Speer Gold Dots if that's the case. Smaller and should provide more tissue damage. Maybe I'm ignorant though. nobody says that all AR pistols have to be chambered in .223.... |
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Posted: 1/15/2014 9:42:26 AM EDT
[#7]
Is my AR pistol practical? Break into my house about zero three hundred....I'll show ya just how practical it can be.
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Posted: 1/15/2014 9:46:59 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Micro draco Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: What sort of hack job barrel is that? It looks like a cut down Draco. Pics of gas piston, or what's left or it? Micro draco ETA: That barrel has got to be around 3 inches long. |
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Posted: 1/15/2014 9:53:33 AM EDT
[#9]
they are pretty cheap right now: http://www.wideners.com/itemdetail.cfm?item_id=100001089&dir=700|1012|1026
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Posted: 1/15/2014 9:54:46 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
One member here has a great self defense story involving a Draco. Lonk? |
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Posted: 1/15/2014 9:58:02 AM EDT
[#11]
You would be surprised how much easier it is to hit your target with the longer sight radius than with a traditional handgun. They are also way more powerful. With the addition of a single point sling it is even easier to hit longer range targets and they're easier to conceal than non-NFA rifles. That makes them great truck/trunk guns.
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Posted: 1/15/2014 10:01:02 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They do for people in states that forbid SBR's |
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Posted: 1/15/2014 10:01:27 AM EDT
[#13]
It's a good way to make sure your SBR works correctly before dropping another $200 on a tax stamp.
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Posted: 1/15/2014 10:02:42 AM EDT
[#14]
Honestly, a compact weapon with a 30 round magazine that you can wield inside of a vehicle and capable of penetrating level 3 body armor* and turning cover into concealment has some value. If Mrs. Makarov and myself are ever forced to drive out of a SHTF situation, she will be sitting in the passenger seat with an AK pistol in her lap.
Having fired such a "pistol" from inside a vehicle (stationary, on a shooting range) I can say two things; 1) Make sure to cant the ejection port so hot, empty cartridges are not shooting into your face 
2) If you start pulling the trigger NOBODY will want to be inside or near that car. * DISCLAIMER- I am NOT referring to LEOs. Many criminals and gangs are donning body armor as well. |
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Posted: 1/15/2014 10:04:39 AM EDT
[#15]
I have two PAP and a Draco SBR along with several others. They're great guns and I use them quite a bit actually. Perfect car guns and I often travel with mine.
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Posted: 1/15/2014 10:07:56 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
yup helps outlaw AP rifle rounds.. I understand your frustration, but blame the unconstitutional law that restricts the ammunition, not the firearm. |
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Posted: 1/15/2014 10:09:52 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yes. <a href="http://s247.photobucket.com/user/dab969/media/image_zps3628c1fd.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg141/dab969/image_zps3628c1fd.jpg</a>  
somebody gonna be mad when they see that picture |
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Posted: 1/15/2014 10:10:18 AM EDT
[#18]
Isnt this a SBR?
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yes. <a href="http://s247.photobucket.com/user/dab969/media/image_zps3628c1fd.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg141/dab969/image_zps3628c1fd.jpg</a> |
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Posted: 1/15/2014 10:10:38 AM EDT
[#19]
I've been so tempted to buy one of those M92s, but I just can't find a real reason to do so other than bringing it out to shoot and saying, "HEY! Look at this crazy thing!" That particular reason is fine to own a firearm, but I just like a little more justification on my end to own it.
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Posted: 1/15/2014 10:12:31 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Mini Dracos have a regular trunnion and rear sight block with a 7.75 inch barrel. That thing is shorter than a mini. ETA: That barrel has got to be around 3 inches long. Quote HistoryQuoted: Mini Dracos have a regular trunnion and rear sight block with a 7.75 inch barrel. That thing is shorter than a mini. ETA: That barrel has got to be around 3 inches long. Is this better? This one is awaiting a Form 1.  |
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Posted: 1/15/2014 10:12:42 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
A pistol, I can lay on the front seat. The law doesn't specify if it's an AR-15 pistol or a PF-9. Practical reasons are basically "use from or getting in and out of a car." Question is with such a short barrel, will your "rifle's" rounds have enough velocity to fragment reliably/properly inside soft tissue? I personally do not see a super short SBR as a respectable self defense weapon unless you specifically want the capability to perforate soft body armor. Without reliable fragmentation you're using a high capacity .22. I'd rather use a 9mm with Federal HSTs/Winchester Ranger/Speer Gold Dots if that's the case. Smaller and should provide more tissue damage. Maybe I'm ignorant though. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
An SBR is a Rifle, and therefore illegal to carry in the front seat loaded and uncased in my state. The law doesn't specify if it's an AR-15 pistol or a PF-9. Practical reasons are basically "use from or getting in and out of a car." Question is with such a short barrel, will your "rifle's" rounds have enough velocity to fragment reliably/properly inside soft tissue? I personally do not see a super short SBR as a respectable self defense weapon unless you specifically want the capability to perforate soft body armor. Without reliable fragmentation you're using a high capacity .22. I'd rather use a 9mm with Federal HSTs/Winchester Ranger/Speer Gold Dots if that's the case. Smaller and should provide more tissue damage. Maybe I'm ignorant though. fragmentation is not preferred, but your concerns about velocity are valid as relevant to projectile expansion and temporary wound cavity. |
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Posted: 1/15/2014 10:13:05 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Isnt this a SBR? Quote HistoryQuoted: Isnt this a SBR? Quoted: Yes. <a href="http://s247.photobucket.com/user/dab969/media/image_zps3628c1fd.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg141/dab969/image_zps3628c1fd.jpg</a>  |
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Posted: 1/15/2014 10:16:26 AM EDT
[#23]
Yes, to be converted to SBR.
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Posted: 1/15/2014 10:22:57 AM EDT
[#24]
Yes, lots of practical use. I carry mine quite often in the car, and take it with me on trips. Legal to have loaded in the car, and concealed. Smaller size than a carbine. More accurate than a pistol. 30 rounds of 5.56, and 10.5" barrel still has enough velocity. I'm also finishing up a 9mm AR pistol build that is a full 7" shorter. And that's a Sig Pistol Braces in the photos, not a stock.
Thread is useless without pics: (Same lower in both pics, my 9mm lower wasn't finished at the time)   |
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Posted: 1/15/2014 10:31:38 AM EDT
[#25]
they are excellent for hunting apostrophes.
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Posted: 1/15/2014 10:35:52 AM EDT
[#26]
A rifle cartridge in a pistol size package? I just can't think of any use for that. AND no hunter needs an AR/AK....
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Posted: 1/15/2014 10:42:39 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
yup helps outlaw AP rifle rounds.. This |
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Posted: 1/15/2014 10:44:43 AM EDT
[#28]
A lot of members here have used them for truck guns. A 10.5 AR pistol would be pretty handy and useful for a little compact woods gun.
Some people also buy them, then submit SBR paperwork. They'll still have something to play with until they've got the go-ahead to SBR it. Hell, all you've got to do on an AR pistol is change the buffer tube assembly over to a carbine or rifle buffer assembly. |
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Posted: 1/15/2014 10:45:47 AM EDT
[#29]
stuff it in your pants and carry!
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Posted: 1/15/2014 10:46:20 AM EDT
[#30]
Lighter than a rifle, higher capacity than a standard handgun, easier to attach a sling to than a traditional pistol, and circumvents "loaded rifle" laws in most states?
Yeah, nothing practical about that. |
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Posted: 1/15/2014 10:50:04 AM EDT
[#31]
Excellent truck gun. |
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Posted: 1/15/2014 10:55:35 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
A pistol, I can lay on the front seat. The law doesn't specify if it's an AR-15 pistol or a PF-9. Practical reasons are basically "use from or getting in and out of a car." Question is with such a short barrel, will your "rifle's" rounds have enough velocity to fragment reliably/properly inside soft tissue? I personally do not see a super short SBR as a respectable self defense weapon unless you specifically want the capability to perforate soft body armor. Without reliable fragmentation you're using a high capacity .22. I'd rather use a 9mm with Federal HSTs/Winchester Ranger/Speer Gold Dots if that's the case. Smaller and should provide more tissue damage. Maybe I'm ignorant though. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
An SBR is a Rifle, and therefore illegal to carry in the front seat loaded and uncased in my state. The law doesn't specify if it's an AR-15 pistol or a PF-9. Practical reasons are basically "use from or getting in and out of a car." Question is with such a short barrel, will your "rifle's" rounds have enough velocity to fragment reliably/properly inside soft tissue? I personally do not see a super short SBR as a respectable self defense weapon unless you specifically want the capability to perforate soft body armor. Without reliable fragmentation you're using a high capacity .22. I'd rather use a 9mm with Federal HSTs/Winchester Ranger/Speer Gold Dots if that's the case. Smaller and should provide more tissue damage. Maybe I'm ignorant though. How short are we talking about? Mk.262 will reliably frag out to 50 yards with a 10.5" barrel. That's better terminal ballistics than 9mm offers out past where most self defense shootings occur. |
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Posted: 1/15/2014 10:58:26 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I hope you know that looks disgusting. I mean, hey, enjoy it and all, but damn.  Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Yes. <a href="http://s247.photobucket.com/user/dab969/media/image_zps3628c1fd.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg141/dab969/image_zps3628c1fd.jpg</a> I hope you know that looks disgusting. I mean, hey, enjoy it and all, but damn. This. Those stocks, because let's be totally fucking honest that's what they are, are hideous and have no redeeming qualities at all, anti SBR state or not. |
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Posted: 1/15/2014 11:03:39 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think the barrel is 5.5" or somehting along those lines. It is a Micro Draco and I understand only 100 or so were imported. Is this better? This one is awaiting a Form 1. <a href="http://s247.photobucket.com/user/dab969/media/photo1_zpscaa285be.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg141/dab969/photo1_zpscaa285be.jpg</a> Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Yes. <a href="http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg141/dab969/image_zps3628c1fd.jpg" target="_blank">http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg141/dab969/image_zps3628c1fd.jpg</a> Micro draco ETA: That barrel has got to be around 3 inches long. Is this better? This one is awaiting a Form 1. <a href="http://s247.photobucket.com/user/dab969/media/photo1_zpscaa285be.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg141/dab969/photo1_zpscaa285be.jpg</a> The Sig version looks much better, to bad they don't make one for the AK variant. |
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Posted: 1/15/2014 11:03:42 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Lighter than a rifle, higher capacity than a standard handgun, easier to attach a sling to than a traditional pistol, and circumvents "loaded rifle" laws in most states? Yeah, nothing practical about that. I'm surprised at how many states have those, but this is a good work around that law. If you think the AR pistols are useless toys, spend some more time shooting them. They're not as good as an SBR, but they're not exactly useless either. Especially for the situations people are describing using them like in the car, they're outstanding choices, IMO. |
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Posted: 1/15/2014 11:06:14 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
A rifle cartridge in a pistol size package? I just can't think of any use for that. AND no hunter needs an AR/AK.... Perhaps this is sarcasm? |
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Posted: 1/15/2014 11:15:59 AM EDT
[#37]
They're apparently fun as range toys. Firing one inside a vehicle would probably disorient you as badly as a flashbang.
I suggest people who think these are good for defense try that in a remote location and see if you can even tell which way is up after a few rounds. |
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Posted: 1/15/2014 11:26:25 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: One member here has a great self defense story involving a Draco. |
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Posted: 1/15/2014 11:27:39 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A pistol, I can lay on the front seat. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: An SBR is a Rifle, and therefore illegal to carry in the front seat loaded and uncased in my state. A pistol, I can lay on the front seat. The law doesn't specify if it's an AR-15 pistol or a PF-9. Practical reasons are basically "use from or getting in and out of a car." |
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Posted: 1/15/2014 11:29:04 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
they are excellent for hunting apostrophes. They work great for deer also in pistol and shotgun only areas. |
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Posted: 1/15/2014 11:31:40 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
yup helps outlaw AP rifle rounds.. This An AR ruined the 7.62x39 party. Ironic. 
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Posted: 1/15/2014 11:32:32 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
He specifically mentioned an AR-15 pistol for use as a defensive weapon. If you do not have enough velocity to cause the round to reliably fragment in soft tissue, there's not going to be a whole lot of difference in tissue damage. Penetration will be different, yes. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
An SBR is a Rifle, and therefore illegal to carry in the front seat loaded and uncased in my state. The law doesn't specify if it's an AR-15 pistol or a PF-9. Practical reasons are basically "use from or getting in and out of a car." Question is with such a short barrel, will your "rifle's" rounds have enough velocity to fragment reliably/properly inside soft tissue? I personally do not see a super short SBR as a respectable self defense weapon unless you specifically want the capability to perforate soft body armor. Without reliable fragmentation you're using a high capacity .22. I'd rather use a 9mm with Federal HSTs/Winchester Ranger/Speer Gold Dots if that's the case. Smaller and should provide more tissue damage. Maybe I'm ignorant though. are you saying a 123g SST out of that 8" (appears to be around 8") barrel is similar to a .22lr? ETA: or a 62g TSX (for the 556 offerings) Who says you have to count on fragmentation? There are plenty of bullet choices out there. Pick a bullet that works at the velocity you're getting. |
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Posted: 1/15/2014 11:32:52 AM EDT
[#43]
$400 for a well built, 7.62 Zastava handgun. What other reason do you need? Its going to make a hell of a fun SBR when I get around to form 1'ing it too. I never thought I could get into them either, but I love my M92 even if its just to finger fuck while watching whatever evil movie I popped into the DVR.
Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 1/15/2014 11:33:18 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This. Those stocks, because let's be totally fucking honest that's what they are, are hideous and have no redeeming qualities at all, anti SBR state or not. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Yes. <a href="http://s247.photobucket.com/user/dab969/media/image_zps3628c1fd.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg141/dab969/image_zps3628c1fd.jpg</a> I hope you know that looks disgusting. I mean, hey, enjoy it and all, but damn. This. Those stocks, because let's be totally fucking honest that's what they are, are hideous and have no redeeming qualities at all, anti SBR state or not. Regardless of YOUR opinion, the ATF's opinion is that those BRACES do not constitute STOCKS so get over it. They are very easy to shoulder, much better than the naked tube (this counts as a redeeming quality). And even if they had "no redeeming qualities" why should you care? People want to spend their money on this, let'em. The amount of butthurt that the SB15 is capable of bringing out in people is a redeeming quality in and of itself.* *13'er blah blah blah. There now I just saved you the time of having to beat a dead horse and look like a jackass who harasses people based solely on their join date. |
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Posted: 1/15/2014 11:35:01 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: He specifically mentioned an AR-15 pistol for use as a defensive weapon. If you do not have enough velocity to cause the round to reliably fragment in soft tissue, there's not going to be a whole lot of difference in tissue damage. Penetration will be different, yes. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: An SBR is a Rifle, and therefore illegal to carry in the front seat loaded and uncased in my state. The law doesn't specify if it's an AR-15 pistol or a PF-9. Practical reasons are basically "use from or getting in and out of a car." Question is with such a short barrel, will your "rifle's" rounds have enough velocity to fragment reliably/properly inside soft tissue? I personally do not see a super short SBR as a respectable self defense weapon unless you specifically want the capability to perforate soft body armor. Without reliable fragmentation you're using a high capacity .22. I'd rather use a 9mm with Federal HSTs/Winchester Ranger/Speer Gold Dots if that's the case. Smaller and should provide more tissue damage. Maybe I'm ignorant though. are you saying a 123g SST out of that 8" (appears to be around 8") barrel is similar to a .22lr? ETA: or a 62g TSX (for the 556 offerings) Sometimes one has to shoot through a car door or window to reach soft tissue.
I assume there's a balance in there somewhere. The utility comes from "need a rifle like firearm fast" over "what the bullet does once it hit's it's target" |
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Posted: 1/15/2014 11:38:26 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: fragmentation is not preferred, but your concerns about velocity are valid as relevant to projectile expansion and temporary wound cavity. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: An SBR is a Rifle, and therefore illegal to carry in the front seat loaded and uncased in my state. The law doesn't specify if it's an AR-15 pistol or a PF-9. Practical reasons are basically "use from or getting in and out of a car." Question is with such a short barrel, will your "rifle's" rounds have enough velocity to fragment reliably/properly inside soft tissue? I personally do not see a super short SBR as a respectable self defense weapon unless you specifically want the capability to perforate soft body armor. Without reliable fragmentation you're using a high capacity .22. I'd rather use a 9mm with Federal HSTs/Winchester Ranger/Speer Gold Dots if that's the case. Smaller and should provide more tissue damage. Maybe I'm ignorant though. fragmentation is not preferred, but your concerns about velocity are valid as relevant to projectile expansion and temporary wound cavity. |
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Posted: 1/15/2014 11:39:19 AM EDT
[#47]
Is that you, Mr. Metcalf?
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Posted: 1/15/2014 11:40:02 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: With a "pistol" lower, I can put any non-stock having upper on it I want. Including long barrel versions. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: An SBR is a Rifle, and therefore illegal to carry in the front seat loaded and uncased in my state. The law doesn't specify if it's an AR-15 pistol or a PF-9. Practical reasons are basically "use from or getting in and out of a car." Question is with such a short barrel, will your "rifle's" rounds have enough velocity to fragment reliably/properly inside soft tissue? I personally do not see a super short SBR as a respectable self defense weapon unless you specifically want the capability to perforate soft body armor. Without reliable fragmentation you're using a high capacity .22. I'd rather use a 9mm with Federal HSTs/Winchester Ranger/Speer Gold Dots if that's the case. Smaller and should provide more tissue damage. Maybe I'm ignorant though. are you saying a 123g SST out of that 8" (appears to be around 8") barrel is similar to a .22lr? ETA: or a 62g TSX (for the 556 offerings) Sometimes one has to shoot through a car door or window to reach soft tissue. I assume there's a balance in there somewhere. The utility comes from "need a rifle like firearm fast" over "what the bullet does once it hit's it's target" |
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Posted: 1/15/2014 11:40:15 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yup! They are fun and a great starting point for an SBR. This |
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Posted: 1/15/2014 11:44:50 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How short are we talking about? Mk.262 will reliably frag out to 50 yards with a 10.5" barrel. That's better terminal ballistics than 9mm offers out past where most self defense shootings occur. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: An SBR is a Rifle, and therefore illegal to carry in the front seat loaded and uncased in my state. The law doesn't specify if it's an AR-15 pistol or a PF-9. Practical reasons are basically "use from or getting in and out of a car." Question is with such a short barrel, will your "rifle's" rounds have enough velocity to fragment reliably/properly inside soft tissue? I personally do not see a super short SBR as a respectable self defense weapon unless you specifically want the capability to perforate soft body armor. Without reliable fragmentation you're using a high capacity .22. I'd rather use a 9mm with Federal HSTs/Winchester Ranger/Speer Gold Dots if that's the case. Smaller and should provide more tissue damage. Maybe I'm ignorant though. How short are we talking about? Mk.262 will reliably frag out to 50 yards with a 10.5" barrel. That's better terminal ballistics than 9mm offers out past where most self defense shootings occur. |
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