Chronograph used today was a LABRADAR unit belonging to my nephew.

Powder is VECTAN 5000 from Graf’s – This stuff: https://www.grafs.com/catalog/product/productId/28088 (about $22/pound)

The company advertises the burn rate as somewhere between Varget and IMR-4350.
I’d say that’s about right.

VECTAN 5000 functions in 5.56 and .308 Winchester, but is too slow in my opinion.
In each of those respective calibers, the MAXIMUM load tested filled the case with powder halfway up the neck of the case (and still wasn’t making great velocity).

As an aside I tested my usual match-ammo loads for 5.56
Velocities for my VARGET loads were slower than I expected. I was expecting 2700’s. Instead got 2600’s. See the data below.
M193 was screaming out of that 20” barrel. Which is significant for nothing other than to assure me that there wasn’t something wonky about the LABRADAR possibly reading velocities too low.
But I’m still puzzled about the 2600’s velocities. I need to repeat that test with my Chrony and skyscreens.

It looks like the VECTAN 5000 IS very adequate powder for 30-06.
The test gun for 30-06 was an ordinary Browning A-Bolt hunting rifle. Very lightweight.
I fired several rounds of M2 Ball as reference. Recoil was significant.
I could definitely notice less recoil with the VECTAN loads, especially the lighter loads.
With regard to load-density, even the maximum load for the 30-06 still had significant air space in the case (unlike the 5.56 and .308 maximum loads)

5.56 NATO 20” White Oak barrel

M193 – 3360 fps
77 SMK / 24.2 Varget – 2675 fps
80 SMK / 24.4 Varget – 2660 fps

Vectan 5000 powder 77 SMK
•22.0 grains – 2380 fps
•22.5 grains – 2435 fps
•23.0 grains – 2490 fps
•23.5 grains – 2515 fps
•24.0 grains – 2570 fps

Vectan 5000 powder 62 Hornady FMJ
•23.0 grains – 2540 fps
•23.5 grains – 2590 fps
•24.0 grains – 2640 fps
•24.5 grains – 2665 fps
•25.0 grains – 2770 fps
•25.5 grains – 2840 fps

*********************************************
Vectan 5000 powder

7.62 NATO – 150 FMJ
Remington 783 – 16” barrel
•41.0 grains – 2225 fps
•42.0 grains – 2310 fps
•43.0 grains – 2380 fps

*********************************************
Vectan 5000 powder

30-06

Browning A-Bolt – 22 inch barrel
•M2 ball – 2585 fps
•43.0 grains – 22270 fps
•44.0 grains – 2310 fps
•45.0 grains – 2430 fps
•46.0 grains – 2460 fps
•47.0 grains – 2480 fps
•48.0 grains – 2520 fps

thanks for the time to write that up.  I've gotten lots of vectan from grafs, and have liked everything I have tried so far.  I have 3000, but haven't gotten around to trying it yet.  I scratched my head at seeing the 5000 loading listed in the manual...

I'm going to guess that the Vectan 3000 powder burns somewhere around the same rate as TAC or H-335.

The thing that I was reminded of with the 5000 I tested today is there are two practical elements.
First is BURN-RATE. Everybody thinks about that.
Second is BULK. I think this factor is often overlooked.

I was not surprised that the BULK of Vectan 5000 was excessive for 5.56 application.
However, I was suprised that the BULK of Vectan 5000 was a factor in loading .308 Winchester.
In the case of .308 Win, the Vectan 5000 was filling nearly to the mouth of the case, but the actual WEIGHT OF THE POWDER was fairly low.
It genuinely surprised me that only 43.0 grains Vectan 5000 filled the case to halfway up the neck.

I wonder whether the BULK of the 3000 powder will cause limitations on velocity for 5.56.

The Vectan powder is available, and seems like it has potential to be good value for the price.
Plus there's the potentially positve feature of Vectan being from different manufacturer than all the other stuff (mostly Hodgdon) we are used to getting.

Glad I'm not just crazy or a complete idiot. You got very similar results to myself, as we discussed in a couple other threads.

Going to continue using the 5k for 30-06?

I've been wanting to try some 175gr MatchKings in my -06, maybe I'll burn up some of the 5k on it. That might work well.

How was the accuracy for you? Granted using FMJs wasn't going to do very well from the start, but did it at least maintain factory ball accuracy?

I was not shooting for accuracy yesterday.

Just shooting the berm and writing down numbers.

Now that I have a feel for how the powder performs functionally, I’ll load up some more FMJ and some 168SMK for the Garand.

I’ll use 47.0 grains for both bullets.

The load only needs to mostly hold the 10-ring on an NRA SR target. I can’t imagine any powder other than ground-up match heads and pine needles failing that standard.

Interesting feature of this powder is how it produced low velocity (as compared to VARGET) in 223 and 308.

Yet, when the charge got to around 48.0 grains in 30-06, the velocity started to near VARGET numbers. I previously determined that 50.0 grains VARGET pretty much matched velocity of Lake City M2 ball. You can see from the numbers I posted that had I pushed to 50.0 grains VECTAN 5000, I probably would have hit M2 velocity.

That said, I’m trying to AVOID M2 recoil. So 47.0 grains I hope will put me where it needs to be for accuracy and lessened filling-loosening. I’m only interested in shooting the Garand out to 200 yards for CMP matches. I’m not trying to go to war with my 30-06 handloads.

Gotcha. How low can you go and still cycle a Garand?

I actually experimented with that.

Generally 50.0 grains VARGET duplicates M2 ball.

I wen't down to 38.0 grains VARGET, at which point the Garand stopped cycling.

Frankly, before you get to that point, the necks stop sealing in the chamber, and you get all sorts of blow-by schmutz blown rudely into your eyes.

I go with 47.0 grains of pretty much ANY medium-burning rifle powder for the Garand.
Makes enough power that zero's aren't gone-stupid, and cycles the gun, but a little less recoil.
Decent accuracy.

I tested several loads with Vectan 5000 today.

All firing from prone, sling-supported, at 200 yards.

5.56
25.0 grains with 62 grain Hornady FMJ.
10 shots from the magazine.
Roughly 5-inch group.
Shot to approximate same point of impact as 24.2 grains Varget with a 77 SMK
White Oak Armament service rifle upper with 4x scope used for testing

.308
43.0 grains with bulk "M80" 147 FMJ.
10 shots from the magazine.
Roughly 6-inch group.
Shot to approximate same point of impact as 41.1 grains TAC with a 168 SMK
DPMS LR-308-T with 4x-scope (16" barrel with suppressor) used for testing.

30-06
47.0 grains with bulk "M80" 147 FMJ.
8 shots from the magazine.
Roughly 6-inch group.
Shot approximately one MOA lower than Lake City M2 ball
Unmodified M1 Garand used for testing

30-06
46.0 grains with bulk 168 SMK.
8 shots from the magazine.
Roughly 5-inch group.
Shot to approximate same point of impact as 47.0 grains Varget with a 168 SMK (also one MOA lower than M2 ball)
Unmodified M1 Garand used for testing


The only purpose of this testing was to ascertain the following:
1. Is the 5.56 load suitable for offhand and sitting practice on the SR-1 target? Answer: YES
2. Is the .308 load functional in DPMS gun and accurate for practical application? Answer: YES
3. Is the 30-06 load with M80 bullet functional in Garand, and sufficiently accurate to hold 10-ring of SR target? Answer: YES
4. Is the 30-06 load with 168 SNK functional in Garand, and sufficiently accurate to hold 10-ring of SR target? Answer: YES


So a good day on the range and all objectives met.

Green light to load each load in quantity.

I too did some testing with T5K today. Figured I'd try it out in the aught six.

The Nobel data was for a 168, IIRC 42-48gr. Throwing caution to the wind, I started at 44gr.

I used R-P cases, already twice fired, FL sized, trimmed to 2.845, Win LRP, 165gr Speer SPBT seated to a nominal 3.300" COAL. My control was a Win case, WLRP, 55gr BigGame, same bullet/depth.

Used the magnetospeed, which as you'll see below makes me have to offset aim some. Had some failure to read on the first and last strings.

It was 40*F at time of testing. Slight wind.

Charge - Avg - SD - ES
3 shots each
55gr BigGame 2683, 2708, fail

44gr T5K 2205, 2203, fail
45gr 2258 25 55
46gr 2343 21 41
47gr 2398 7 15
48gr 2446, 2442, fail

In the second picture, those two groups were shot with my standard load of BigGame. The middle one is with the chrono, the low/right is the rifle on its own.

Attached File

Attached File

I purchased some Vectan 3000, 5000, 7000 and Ba9. IMHO, the 5000 is a bit slow for 55gr and lighter bullets. I tried some of the 3000 the other day in some .223 55gr fmj. I did not take my chrono, was just looking for pressure signs and making sure it would cycle. Ten rounds each from 22gr to 24gr in .5 gr increments. All cycled and locked back on empty mag in my 10.5" sbr. Just a red dot on it, so can't really speak for accuracy, but I was ringing steel at 100 yards offhand. 24gr was a bit too hot and showed flattened primers and smeared base of case. Afterwards, I loaded 500 rounds with 22.5gr. Just looking for plinking rounds for now. I plan to try some of the 5000 with 77gr SMKs and compare it to my target loads using Varget.

You can see the numbers above, I think you will find the 5000 to be slower than Varget with the 77's.

Moreover, 5000 is even bulkier than Varget.
24.0 grains 5000 takes up more space in the case than 24.0 grains of Varget.
5000 is bulky enough that I think you could get by with pouring it in a tumbler with primed cases, and tumble until the cases are all full. Pull the cases out, and give them a little flick to make a wee bit of room for the bullet, and cram it down, and shoot.

If Vectan made a 4000, it probably would be closer to Varget.

I see Graf's is sold out of 3000.

IIRC below max charge for a 150gr 308, the T5K fills the case enough to push the bullet back out of the case. Didn't even have pressure signs.

I was really hoping that it would work in -06 based on your results, especially using 165s. There was a good bit of room left in the case, so I'm sure I could go up more yet. At this point I'm writing the powder off. Will keep it around for testing random stuff though.

I fired the Vectan 5000 yesterday in the rack-grade Garand with 168 SMK's.

Put 17 out of 18 shots inside the 10 ring on the SR target at 200 yards.

As the gun got hot, it started walking to 1 o'clock, and leaked one out into the 9 ring.
After the leak, I put one click down, and the rest of the string stayed in the 10-ring.

46.0 grains Vectan 5000 with 168 SMK in 30-06.
Iron sights.
All firing prone, sling-supported.
200 yards.

10-ring on SR target is 7 inches.