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Posted: 1/14/2018 8:13:09 PM EDT
Hey guys, I'm starting my research on my next firearm project and am new to pistol caliber carbines so id like some info on the differences. So my 10.5 556 ar isn't the quietest suppressor host, is heavy and not that compact, so I would like a 9mm carbine to contrast it. I would order some type of 9mm suppressor for it so I want the entire package to be as short as possible, light as possible, and as quiet as possible with subsonic ammo. Ive been looking at the sig Mpx k, Zenith mp5k clone, and the B&T apc9 and B&T ghm9. Other things I'm looking for is a good trigger, pistol brace options, 3 lug mount, and possible binary trigger options in the future. What are the differences in sound, recoil impulse, and gassiness of rollerlock vs regular blowback?
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Are you planning to SBR it?
The MPX seemed gassy to me, I wasn’t impressed based off its suppressed performance. Unsuppressed, I don’t think it has an equal. It’s light, shoots smooth, easily modified with good aftermarket support and recoil is light. The MP5/clones are ubiquitous. They’re quiet suppressor hosts and recoil is light. The only MP variant I like is the K model though. The Scorpion Evo is a bit hefty, somewhat easily modified depending on the variant you get and it’s very quiet. It’s biggest detractor is it’s blowback which results in more felt recoil than the MPX or MP5 series. Being a new design it comes pretty modernized and doesn’t need much aside from a better trigger. |
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Are you planning to SBR it? The MPX seemed gassy to me, I wasn’t impressed based off its suppressed performance. Unsuppressed, I don’t think it has an equal. It’s light, shoots smooth, easily modified with good aftermarket support and recoil is light. The MP5/clones are ubiquitous. They’re quiet suppressor hosts and recoil is light. The only MP variant I like is the K model though. The Scorpion Evo is a bit hefty, somewhat easily modified depending on the variant you get and it’s very quiet. It’s biggest detractor is it’s blowback which results in more felt recoil than the MPX or MP5 series. Being a new design it comes pretty modernized and doesn’t need much aside from a better trigger. View Quote |
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The new scorpion micro is worth a look. Pair it with an omega 9K and your done. In the process of that right now. Cost wise its beats the sig, mags as well and no recalls. Should come out under 2K all said and done, maybe even a budget optic included.
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i can recommend the MKE z5rs and the APC9. neither are very light or inexpensive, the GHM9 might be better there. i would not hesitate to buy the GHM9 although i do not like the current stock for it but it looks like at least one more is in the works. the tailhook brace looks great if planning to keep as a pistol. the stock in this video is expensive:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BnEk9PkMu84 the apc9 is very smooth, feels like its on rollers. id choose this if you want to run a red dot. last round bolt hold open, ambi controls, bolt catch and release button. some find the ambi safety to be uncomfortable but it doesnt bother me. i might have one of the newer selectors. mags are expensive but can be found for $45 (lanbos). the z5rs is a fun gun to shoot with the iron sights, very accurate. i assume the K version is too. POF mags are a good deal for $30 but i prefer the 3 MKE mags that come with the pistol. have a better finish and sit a bit tighter in the magwell, not that the POFs are too loose. |
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Small & light?
I’d say B&T TP9 may fit your needs. I own a EVO and love it. It’s solid and but not super light. Maybe the newer K configuration is worth a look as well. |
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Dare I say a G17+ G17L Threaded barrel in a Roni? http://i.imgur.com/g83e5zI.jpg ETA: No binary trigger or 3-lug option If not, I'll be releasing a short review before the month ends (check our IP forum) on a Glock fed, AR pattern, threaded, lightweight PCC that can be had cheaper than a Glock handgun. It was sent to me for T&E, so I can't say what it is just yet, but I like it. I plan on doing a 300 round stress test with it (all I can afford to do). Don't mean to plug the review, but it's VERY light for a PCC, takes AR triggers, comes with a Sig SOB brace and threaded, which are all things you were looking for. MP5, MPX, EVO's and even my AR-9 8.5" are all pretty heavy. I haven't messed too much with the B&T's, but I've heard a lot of great things about them. View Quote |
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Attached File
Can't go wrong with either one. 2 of my favorites but I'm a PCC fiend. B&T APC9 & HK MP5K-N |
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New PCC coming out soon but I can't mention the company yet. Blowback, LIGHT, Glock mags, 400 bucks, comes with an SB brace.
I'll post the link when I can. Oh it also uses standard AR FCG |
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New PCC coming out soon but I can't mention the company yet. Blowback, LIGHT, Glock mags, 400 bucks, comes with an SB brace. I'll post the link when I can. Oh it also uses standard AR FCG View Quote |
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The new ruger might be able to be made into something like you are looking for but it doesn't sound like it fits your specs from the factory. I am pretty sure there are going to be lots of different stock options in a couple of years. 16" barrel though, unless you have it chopped and sbr it.
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That sounds great. Does it have a real folding stock or are we stuck with the buffer tube ala AR9 etc? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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New PCC coming out soon but I can't mention the company yet. Blowback, LIGHT, Glock mags, 400 bucks, comes with an SB brace. I'll post the link when I can. Oh it also uses standard AR FCG |
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Unfortunately, most of the PCC's on the market are not very size efficient, and are barely shorter then their rifle caliber equivalent for the same barrel length. http://i1335.photobucket.com/albums/w666/protectionfirst56/IMG_0481_zpsetavetjz.jpg The "ideal" configuration, which offers the most compact package, is the mag in the grip style. The smallest and lightest is the B&T TP9 - 3lbs, 12" folded, with low recoil rotating barrel system. Downsides are that it only works with the $1100 B&T Rotex suppressor, has a pretty terrible trigger, and has $60 mags: http://www.primusdatabase.com/images/d/d2/B%26T_MP9_Submachine_Gun-PDW_2.jpg The 2nd best option for form factor is the MPA 930DMG Defender that takes Glock mags. This is an aluminum lower MAC, takes Glock mags and a folding stocks, and has a folded length of about 13-14". Weight is around 4lbs or so: https://jggunsmith.files.wordpress.com/2015/11/mpa30dmg_folded.jpg I'm hoping we see more mag in the grip buzzgats at SHOT this year. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Hey guys, I'm starting my research on my next firearm project and am new to pistol caliber carbines so id like some info on the differences. So my 10.5 556 ar isn't the quietest suppressor host, is heavy and not that compact, so I would like a 9mm carbine to contrast it. I would order some type of 9mm suppressor for it so I want the entire package to be as short as possible, light as possible, and as quiet as possible with subsonic ammo. Ive been looking at the sig Mpx k, Zenith mp5k clone, and the B&T apc9 and B&T ghm9. Other things I'm looking for is a good trigger, pistol brace options, 3 lug mount, and possible binary trigger options in the future. What are the differences in sound, recoil impulse, and gassiness of rollerlock vs regular blowback? http://i1335.photobucket.com/albums/w666/protectionfirst56/IMG_0481_zpsetavetjz.jpg The "ideal" configuration, which offers the most compact package, is the mag in the grip style. The smallest and lightest is the B&T TP9 - 3lbs, 12" folded, with low recoil rotating barrel system. Downsides are that it only works with the $1100 B&T Rotex suppressor, has a pretty terrible trigger, and has $60 mags: http://www.primusdatabase.com/images/d/d2/B%26T_MP9_Submachine_Gun-PDW_2.jpg The 2nd best option for form factor is the MPA 930DMG Defender that takes Glock mags. This is an aluminum lower MAC, takes Glock mags and a folding stocks, and has a folded length of about 13-14". Weight is around 4lbs or so: https://jggunsmith.files.wordpress.com/2015/11/mpa30dmg_folded.jpg I'm hoping we see more mag in the grip buzzgats at SHOT this year. |
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MP5K. Most fun PCC I've ever fired. Clones can be found with a 3 lug, good folding arm brace available, and Franklin Armory makes a binary trigger for it. It's smooth, quiet and reliable. It feeds everything from cheap 115 gr steel cased crap to my 147 grain subsonic reloads. I have an SP5K that with work done by Jayson at IGF.
Here is mine: Attached File Attached File Attached File Here it is with binary trigger: 0ACE2840 B07B 4C1E AA47 801B5AF894A3 |
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for everything you have said, seems like only two options:
separate can, MP5K integral, MPX from Innovative Arms, my LGS has one and its about as quiet I can imagine in a 9mm PCC |
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Quoted: Unfortunately, most of the PCC's on the market are not very size efficient, and are barely shorter then their rifle caliber equivalent for the same barrel length. http://i1335.photobucket.com/albums/w666/protectionfirst56/IMG_0481_zpsetavetjz.jpg I'm hoping we see more mag in the grip buzzgats at SHOT this year. View Quote |
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Quoted: Unfortunately, most of the PCC's on the market are not very size efficient, and are barely shorter then their rifle caliber equivalent for the same barrel length. http://i1335.photobucket.com/albums/w666/protectionfirst56/IMG_0481_zpsetavetjz.jpg I'm hoping we see more mag in the grip buzzgats at SHOT this year. But if we look at the specs, and compare barrel lengths, you can see that the "mag forward of the grip" is not a very space efficient design. CZ Scorpion 7.72" barrel folded: 16" CZ 805 Bren 11" folded: 22.75" -->CZ 805 7.72" barrel = 19.47" If we look at a slightly more direct factory comparison: CZ Scorpion 7.72" = 16" XCR Mini 5.56 7.5" = 18.5" So in both cases, its clear that we're not getting that much more compact going 9mm - saving only 2.5-3.5" OAL. And that's a result of the "magazine forward" configuration. Whereas with a "mag in the Grip " configuration, you can get a lunchbox sized 9mm weapon that would be impossible to match with a 5.56/.300 weapon. |
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The Beretta PMX looks pretty good. Like a more refined version of that mid priced B&T model i cant member off top of my head... not the apc9..
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You're referring to the P26 by B&T. It was a limited run and then supposedly B&T sold the rights to Beretta. I don't know if Beretta is going to bring the PMX to civilian market, according to another thread here, there was supposedly a "non compete" clause that went along with the deal. I have a P26 and for a $1k it's awesome quality.
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Dare I say a G17+ G17L Threaded barrel in a Roni? http://i.imgur.com/g83e5zI.jpg ETA: No binary trigger or 3-lug option If not, I'll be releasing a short review before the month ends (check our IP forum) on a Glock fed, AR pattern, threaded, lightweight PCC that can be had cheaper than a Glock handgun. It was sent to me for T&E, so I can't say what it is just yet, but I like it. I plan on doing a 300 round stress test with it (all I can afford to do). Don't mean to plug the review, but it's VERY light for a PCC, takes AR triggers, comes with a Sig SOB brace and threaded, which are all things you were looking for. MP5, MPX, EVO's and even my AR-9 8.5" are all pretty heavy. I haven't messed too much with the B&T's, but I've heard a lot of great things about them. View Quote |
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https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/59839/IMG_1234-421491.JPG Can't go wrong with either one. 2 of my favorites but I'm a PCC fiend. B&T APC9 & HK MP5K-N View Quote I am biased towards the TP9 because of its weight and size. You should compare the MP5k-sized pistol and TP9 side by side if you are looking for small and light. The Rotex is expensive but works amazingly well and keeps the OAL relatively short. The Uzi Pro is about half the price after magazines and is also nice and compact. Not too much said about it but it is a nice braced pistol. |
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New PCC coming out soon but I can't mention the company yet. Blowback, LIGHT, Glock mags, 400 bucks, comes with an SB brace. I'll post the link when I can. Oh it also uses standard AR FCG |
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Extar EP9 View Quote Failed To Load Title |
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My Lonewolf SBR AR 9mm is the quietest of my semiauto 9mms and it uses Glock mags.
Also have an SBR MPX and SBR MP5 clone. |
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