Hi guys,
I recently bought several old rifles (Mauser, K31, 38, and an Austrian m95), and found that these ammo are very difficult to find, and they are not cheap. After studying the reloading, I plan to buy a progressive machine. The price is very close to the single stage machine. I found that everyone thinks dillon is good. Now I’m thinking about buying a dillon. I found that the price of the new model 750xl is similar to the previous version, e.g., 5 series, but I don’t know the support for these old ammo type, I checked 750xl spec and found that most old ammo are not listed there, like m95, 6.5×50mm Arisaka die are not included, I don’t know if these type of ammo can be supported by 750xl. Really appreciate you guys' suggestions.  Thank you all in advance.

I would suggest a dillon 550. I doubt you will need 500 rounds per hour for those rounds and a 550 might be a better fit.

Not every shell plate is perfect for every case, but I am certain you can find one for your application.

Dillon customer service is very good as well, they can help you fit your needs to a shell plate.

Also, dies use a common thread pitch, get the dies that you need for your calibers and they will fit your dillon.

the 750 will take standard dies, you'll need to find a matching shellplate.  The casefeed adapter is an unknown, call Dillon

The 550 manual indexing with no case feeder is not quite as fast as the 750 but still cranks out a lot of ammo.

If you can afford it, get the 750.

750

I agree.

550

If you want to make 1000 rounds between supper and 21:00pm, get the 750

If you want to make 300-500, then change calibers, get the 550

If you want to make 100rounds, then change calibers, and make another 100, get a single stage

also, rifle rounds require case prep, trimming, etc.

For the ammo the OP is shooting buy the 550. The conversion kits are cheaper, same with tool heads and it uses standard dies.

I have both a 650 and 550. I use the 650 for 9mm, 40 and 223, because I shoot a lot of that ammo. Ones I shoot less of I load on a 550. If you are prepping brass and then loading it in groups of 200-300 rounds the 550 will work very well.

This.

For low volume rifle cartridges, you'd probably be fine with a single-stage press.  There are plenty of affordable used presses out there, which can save you some money.  Besides a press and dies, you'll also need other equipment such as a scale, some way to clean brass, and a case trimmer/prep tools.

If you want more volume than that, I'd suggest a 550.  With the manual indexing, you can crank out bulk ammo or treat it like a single-stage/turret press if you desire.

The 650/750 is really not needed unless you are wanting to crunch out mass quantities of ammo in a short amount of time.

I suggest you forget about a progressive press until you learn how to reload on a single stage.  Progressive presses are for experienced loaders.  There are so many things going on at a time.  If you don't know what to look for (by experience), it's pretty easy to screw things up.  

Besides, for low volume loading, your set up time and change over time is going to eat up any advantage you may gain with a progressive.

But what do I know, I've only been reloading for 40+ years.

Round count is the answer to your question.

For my old guns and hunting rounds I use my RCBS RC single stage press and a RCBS charge master 1500. I doubt I'm reloading more than a 100 round per 6 calibers.

Everything else is done on my xl650 or pw800+.

Recommend the Dillon 550 as it can be used as a single stage press. As you get more experienced, you can go faster

OP says single stage presses and progressive are close in price. Used to be you were looking at twice the price especially with Dillon in the mix.

What kind of volume are you looking to do?

Price out exactly what is involved for changing calibers and look into what it takes for each press time wise. My gut with a guy starting to log oddball rifle calibers would be to start with a single stage and see if it works for you. If you are set on a progressive I think the 550 would be a great choice.

Which progressive & which single stage presses are being compared to say they are the same price?  

I just ordered a Lee single stage direct from Lee for $25 plus shipping. It’s a factory second with paint flaws.

RCBS

Linky

It will easily size larger rifle brass.

Work into a 550/750 later.

My 2 cents....

to add, a dedicated single stage press just for sizing brass goes a long way.  Allows the progressive press to be set up for another caliber or set up to finish off the same rifle caliber.  

In between sizing and finishing off are a set steps for rifle cases, for me:
1. tumbling off sizing lube
2. trimming
3. deburring (this is one step with a Giraud trimmer)
4. dealing with primer pocket if crimped

If you are new to handloading, and you will be loading multiple calibers in small lots...

IN THE NAME OF ALL THAT IS HOLY...

DO NOT START YOUR QUEST TO HANDLOAD AMMUNITION WITH A PROGRESSIVE PRESS.

Mark my words.

Start with a single-stage press and a proper case gage for the caliber you are loading.

Load one caliber only until you become fully proficient and confident with what you are doing.

A progressive press at this point will only serve to help you repeat your mistakes faster.

If you have never loaded on a 550, you can use the 550 like a single stage press. You don’t have to turn the shell plate. When I shot High Power, I loaded all my ammo on a 550. I sized, then trimmed my brass and hand primed my brass. Then dropped my charge by hand and set up the 550 to seat and put a light crimp on the brass if I needed to.

When I wanted to load 45 or 9mm I used the press as a progressive press.

ETA: Before I would buy a single stage press, I would buy a turret press. You don’t need to always be switching out dies.

Ignore all those saying start on a single stage press first; reloading is a new skill to you and for all intents, a turret-style press IS a single stage if you load only 1 round at a time until you learn the motions and the machine.

Buy the 550 and use the savings over the 750 to buy the ancillary tools like calipers, case trimmer and pilots, scale and, most importantly, a reloading manual (you don't need a bunch of them, just 1 from either a bullet or a powder manufacturer).

With the 550, you can set up case prep tool heads with a sizer die and, optionally, a Dillon trimmer, then clean the lube from the cases and switch to your loading toolhead. On that toolhead, you will have a universal decapping die in place of the sizer die (to remove any debris in the flash hole), powder drop die, seater and crimper (if desired).

Quick change bushings make that a none issue. I actually find my turret press to be more of a hassle as you have to swap all four dies at once (in my case) vs. the single stage you can swap out for any single die you want.

Decapping, swaging, trimming, and pulling are all easier on a single stage too, if you choose to do said tasks on the press.

I started on a single stage, bought a turret (which has its uses) but never pulled the trigger on a progressive. I've used a 650 but honestly for the speed you pick up, and the time you spend on changeovers, you basically net out IF you get the hang of single stage loading.

I load ~220 rounds an hour on my single stage, and have the flexibility to change calibers in 5 seconds. Sure you can get 500 rounds an hour on a progressive, but primer loading is more tedious, if you have a malfunction it's a lot more time consuming to straighten out, and changeovers are 10-15 minutes ish (from what I remember, it was years ago). The single stage press is also a SMALL fraction of the price.

I never thought the juice was worth the squeeze on progressive.  I may change my mind when I get more free time, but even shooting 10k rounds a year I don't really find the progressive worth the trouble. Maybe I don't shoot as much as others do though.

I'd just go single stage or turret. Using a dillon as a single isn't a bad option to set yourself up for later I suppose.

I've never really timed it, but I think it takes me about 40-45 minutes to load 50 rounds all said and done, excluding tumbling. I use a turret. Generally I work my cases not by the "box" or loading block, but by the coffee can/ammo can/5gal bucket. That 45 minutes is decapping, crimp reaming, resizing, trimming, priming, charging and seating.

I can do final loading on about 200rds/hr. That's when my powder measure is already setup or I get it dailed in very quickly. Pull cases out of bucket 5 at a time, check primer for seating (if I don't like it, hit it with the hand priming tool), verify the case has fresh marks from trimming (if not, check it with a bullet to verify it was resized), drop a charge in all 5 cases, and set them in a loading block. I'll fill out 2 loading blocks for 100 pieces, then stand up, and look in them with a flashlight to verify powder. Sit back down and seat a bullet in them.

Usually I load 150 at a time in .223, or 100 .308/-06, as that is what fills my tumbler. Coincidentally, the 40-45 minutes spent loading 150 rounds of .223 is how long I'll put the finished rounds in the tumbler as well. I get backed up at the final tumbling with the bigger rounds.

Unless you're a super serious milsurp collector, constantly using them, I don't forsee you justifying the use of a progressive. If you want one, go for it. You'll probably use it on more typical calibers.

Some good advise.  As noted by others, progressive reloading is a bulk-consumer's machine.  Unless you are planning on running thousands of rounds, it's a notable start-up expense.  Also, be aware that reloading components aren't a whole lot more prevelant than just getting the loaded ammo.  And of course you still need to source the brass.  Lot's of people tend to neglect the economics of components don't all get consumed at the same rate, so while in theory you're reloading for $0.xx/round - that math never accounts for the running out of bullets before you run out of powder, and so the cost of the leftovers didn't get included in the math.  Very long term that eventually washes out, especially if you are a heavy reloader.  But when you realize the time investement; unless you plan on making reloading a hobby unto itself, I don't think people hit that averaged out point as well as they think.

Also, be aware that with rifle cartridges, they require multiple different steps that typically aren't all done in a progresive.  One typically has to resize with lube, which then has to be removed, and and then trimmed.  Once that's done, the progressive can then be used for priming, powder, and seating all in the same cycle.  But be aware that progressives can be a little spotty with the older tech powders.  The likes of old-school rounds with old-school large grain powders like  4064 don't do super well in progressive powder drops, for example.  

All that said, if you really do want to get in the game, I personally like Hornady.  Nothing wrong with Dillon, but the nice thing about Hornady is the Lock-n-Load feature, that lets you pop out dies and change set-up quickly and easily. This becomes nice when you decide you want to single-stage some of those steps, and progressive-stage others, and are able to just pop dies between the presses quickly.   LnL is 5-stage indexing, so it's really a 650, not a 550 if comparing.   Hornady tends to be about half the price after all is said and done, though in the grand scheme of things that's not super important.

Yup.
Start learning the basics and work up.

For what you describe as your needs you really have no cause to jump to a progressive.  A box or two of handloded milsurp rounds is easily done on a single stage.  

There are some things I would rather do on a single stage, pulling bullets should you have to, bulk depriming prior to wet tumbling is another.

Should you forsee reloading in large volumes of pistol, AR ammo, et cetera, then yes you can use a progressive and run one round through at a time to learn and do your milsurp ammo on.  

I always suggest to have a single stage in addition to a progressive.  New or used CoAx, Rockchucker, Big Boss, classic Cast for a single stage.

Dillon 550 is sufficient for most progressive needs.  I actually prefer the manual index to automated.  Lets me watch and inspect, then move when I am ready.  I watch every damn powder drop.    watch for no drops, high or low drop, double drop.  That is the single most important thing to do in making safe ammo.

As others have posted a single stage should be more than adequate.   At the very most a Lee Turret would be as progressive as I think would be needed.  

If you were running large batches a progressive would be your best route.  

Getting a 750 for small runs is like dropping a JDAM to kill a fly.

For loading those rounds I would recommend a single stage or turret press.  Especially if you are new to reloading.

Ill be the odd man out and recommend a Hornady LnL AP for a progressive press.  I have two and they work great for me. A Dillon 550, used 650, or a 750 would be a great press as well.

Really appreciate your guys' suggestions, you guys are really nice and knowledgeable, I plan to get one turret press to get started, maybe from something at low cost, like lee Turret Press, then once get more familiar, will go for Dillon 550c, or Hornady LnL AP. Just want to play with my old rifles, buying these old ammo in local store at CA is not easy, even have to pay additional fee for transferring the ammo from online sales to local store.

I second this. If you want to load rifle on a progressive, Do your case prep (sizing) on a single stage. Progressive presses have shellplate flex that might cause variation in your sizing operation.

Personally I size, deprime, and stage primer pockets if necessary on a single stage, tumble off the lube, trim and debuts on a lathe type trimmer, then load on a progressive with powders that flow well through a case activated powder measure.

Thanks, seems pre-processing will also take lots of efforts, any additional good tools to recommend?

for trimming...Giraud trimmer, it trims, deburrs and puts inside neck chamfer, but pricey, there's other options of course

For primer pocket processing:

this primer pocket gage is useful, Ballistic products

Attached File


RCBS military primer crimp remover, can be put in a drill with an adapter

Attached File


RCBS primer pocket uniformer, also can be put in a drill with an adapter
Attached File

Honestly, I'd just go ahead and go with he 550c then. You can essentially treat it as a single stage as you manually advance it from station to station, you can learn on it as if it was a single stage and just advance one station at a time. I learned on a Dillon 450 this way.

The LEE turret will have a single shell holder but a turret with 3-4 dies that rotate, the Dillon will have 4 shell holders that rotate and 4 dies.

I doubt that you'd get rid of the turret, but Dillon's hold their value quite well, even used they go for around 80% of new. So if you decide this isn't for you, you'll not be out a ton.

The Hornady LNL is a good press in that you get a 650ish press for the price of the 550, but when I had one I had to tinker with it a lot. Fifty rounds of 9mm could take me 15 minutes, but also at times could take me hours. But, this was a 4 digit serial number press so there was likely a lot of growing pains with that press.

Lastly, if you have a question about Dillon's give them a ring. They are usually quite nice, and very helpful on the phone.

This, I'm 20 years in and still loading with a rock chucker, I'm only limited by the speed of my charge master powder dump.

Dillon is the press of choice on this forum. I've used Lee since the 1980's in early 2000 I wanted a Progressive Press looked at the Dillion. For the price of a Dillion with out dies I could get 2 Lee 1000 Progressive Press with dies.
As others have mention get a single stage you will need one any way.

Lee, RCBS, Hornady, all make good presses. People swear by all of them.

Get what works for you at a price you can afford a Lee single stage kit starts at $140.

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1013004049?pid=121744

good, I will start from LEE Classic Turret , and get one Dillon 550c after that, I think they share the same die set.

This. The Lee Classic Turret is hard to beat. I use mine for 8mm Mauser, 303 British etc.  It is fast enough and won't break the bank.

You are going to find better shell plate options with the 550.

You can make enough ammo for those rifles on a 550 as well.

It's not like you are reloading for an Mg42.

Your rate of fire is going to be slow.

I'm going to give a bit different opine... Buy a Dillon turret press, then add the features you want to build it up to a 550 at your own pace. It also lets you stretch out the cost over time. It's how I got started, and I never regretted it.

For that setup with those specific calibers I personally would do a turret press like the Lyman or redding.

Only reason is I could leave each die set in the turret and have it all in one place would even allow you to run a trimmer in the die head if wanted

But the 550 is an awesome press and could be the last you buy unless you get bitten by the bug

@dryflash3


What adapter are you using to Chuck the primer pocket reamer in your drill?


Thanks

It's just a common #8-32 Coupling Nut.

Can find them at Lowes, HD, etc.  Here is one at Lowe's, as an example.

Thank you!