Looking to build or buy a piston driven .300 Blk pistol.  Dont want to spend 2K on a SIG (recalled crap) or wait for a HB.  What are my options.  Already have  AR pistols in .223/.300blk.

Well I've started a honey badger clone of the Honey Badger 2.0 (Remington version).

I can post up some pics of the different versions and my progress so far, once I get off work.

Edit: Buckle up, there's a lot of info.

So starting off there are three versions of the Honey Badger not including the MCX (Sig's spin off, created while Kevin B worked for Sig), the Noveske Ghetto Blaster (basically the same as Q's Honey Badger), or the prototype.

The first version by AAC, also the most well known (as of now).


The Honey Badger 2.0, this was supposed to be either sold by Remington or AAC, I can find two sub-versions, the main difference being the rail type, Remington's RAHG style with screw in rails, or AAC's SquareDrop
SquareDrop:


The RAHG rail (this one's for a hk416 but would work for a piston clone build).


Finally the third version is the Honey Badger by Q, the company started by Kevin B, the guy who came up with the HB


This version along with the Ghetto Blaster (the noveske collaboration with Q) is for sale in a range of lengths and calibers.

Really the only difference mechanically is the handguard, for the first version I suggest the Troy 13 Mlok battle rail

To clone the second version you would either use an AAC SquareDrop rail or you could source a RAHG rail, this being difficult as Remington's defense line is only LE/mil but you can find the rails out there, the Hk416 version RAHG being the only way to make a piston clone. As for the third version you would just buy it from Q or Noveske, but a clone is going to be cheaper.

My piss poor attempt starting with the lower;


The first important feature is the flaring on the lower, I assume the flared mag well on the lower receiver came from using Noveske parts for prototyping the first Honey Badger. I used an SMOS lower as you can get it for less than the identical Noveske lower without the stupid rollmark.

The next big thing is the stock, I used the KES by Safety Harbor Firearms as I think it looks the most similar to the HB and because it is all metal, while that adds some weight, I think it makes it up in strength, for a pistol build you could use the Maxim pistol PDW brace but that really doesn't look proper IMO. And for shits and giggles and to make things more complex I dropped in the ECHO II trigger.

Also the HB uses a pistol grip that is more vertical than a mil-spec one.

The upper/rest of the gun for now;


The upper is a CMT UPUR 2 as it has no forward assist and looks the most similar to the HB, (wilson combat makes an upper that looks close but costs a lot more than the CMT)

The hand guard is the Remington RAHG for direct impingement ARs, you can get them at brownells right now as Remington released some for a limited time.

I know you said you wanted it to be a pistol but making it a rifle first would be easier, (at least it is to me) to get around the NFA I am going to pin a KAK Extended Flashcan to a inexpensive 11.5 inch barrel.

I know it's a lot but I hope it helps.

Edit 2: I'm by no means an expert so I could be wrong about certain things.

Robinson XCR PISTOL with tailhook:

Nice looking stuff.  The robnison strikes a bad note with me, with the xcr? debacle and it looks to cz scorpionish.  Please give me info on sourcing to build the other ones.  Oh and I want to keep it pistol.  Sbr is another $200 and year wait.  Im already in for $3K and 5months wait for cans.  I like the pistol avenue for now..  I will sbr later the ones that feel right.

I updated my first post above.

The Remington RAHGs are pretty nice. I bought one of each length from Brownells a month or so ago. I'd like to find a rail segment or two, without paying a ridiculous price.

Can you guys send me some links where I can buy the parts.  Im having trouble finding them.  Im looking for a piston driven pistol lower?  Then a sliding/folding stock.  I have a kek slider from safe harbor for my CZ scorpion so Im familiar with them .  Then I need a 300 blk 9'' upper and a handguard.  I have a trash panda and a sig 762n can on the way, but both are a larger width than the honey badger can.  So I need a larger dia handguard or just a short one and have the can will have to be exposed.  No biggie.  I just really want the piston lower with a sliding stock like the HB.

most lowers work with no matter the gas system, and to make it a pistol you just fill out the form at the ffl as a pistol not a firearm. The lower I like to use the SMOS no logo

If you're set on it being a pistol the Maxim pistol PDW brace is what you seek.

Since it's going to be a piston build you could the RAHG would work, except the inner diameter is on the smaller side. I haven't found much but I am going to plead that you do this direct impingement as the real Honey Badger is and trying to source parts that are piston compatible is going to be a nightmare if you want it to be a clone rather than a pdw build.

You can get an adjustable gas block if you are worried about how a suppressor will make thing function.

In the end it's your gun, so do it how you want.

Thanks for the info.  Why would it be easier to build it as a rifle?  Could you please tell me where you purchased the parts?  i read the handguard was from brownells but where did you get the rest?
I checked out the getto blaster from Noveske.  Its a SBR correct?  Kinda pricey at $2100.  How much did it cost you to build yours?

For me a pistol requires a little more paperwork (Michigan's stupid pistol registration), but if you build it a pistol you could hypothetically conceal it.
As a rifle the stocks available make the options a little more varied.

The stock KES by Safety Harbor Firearms

The lower SMOS no rollmark

I used a B5 Systems pistol grip, this is up to your preference, the Magpul is pretty comfy too. Use any trigger you want, but if you use a binary trigger like the ECHO you will need to modify a carbine spring if you use the KES stock. Also the ECHO makes assembly/disassembly a bitch.

The upper CMT UPUR-2 Aim surplus has them in right now, but not for long I suspect.

The RAHG rail here this come in two lengths, these are direct impingement only I think.

Barrel length is up to you, but I can give suggestions if you want.

Edit: I used KNS anti-roll/walk pins too for shits and giggles.

I want to build it as a pistol so I can use a 6'' barrel like the real HB and not wait to sbr.  Thanks for all the info so far.  Why use the rem rahg handguard? Looks?  Where is the best place to buy a barrel? Brownells?  I think Ill buy an 8'' and have my gunsmith cut it and add a 20 deg shoulder like the sig/q barels have so my cherry bomb comp will fit correctly.  This is awesome.  Already ordered the upper from aim.  Ill have my gunsmith order the lower.  I should have this thing done in a week or two.

Lol pretty much yea. Troy makes an mlok hand guard that looks like the first HB and it comes in lots of different lengths. Here it is.

I'm going to sbr mine eventually so I built it as a rifle, but for a pistol build the Maxim PDW brace I posted above would work for what you have in mind.

The Ghetto Blaster is an sbr correct. I'm about $900 in not including the ECHO trigger or the barrel. In the end it will probably be about 1500-ish total.

Edited above with more question/info.

Cool can't wait to see it!

I might make a thread in AR discussions on Honey Badger clones later.

Edit: Brownells is pretty good, Aim Surplus has some good barrels as does Aero Precision as well.

What do you mean that you plead to me to make the gun direct impingement instead of piston.  I thought HB were piston?   How would I use the maxim pistol brace with a buffer tube if it was DI?  Is it possible?  I like the hand guards in the HB 2 version.  I would like them to go over the suppressor.  Problem is my trash panda is 1.75''.  Also what PG did you use and where did you get it? TIA your sooo much help.

The Honey Badger is DI with an adjustable gas system so you can optimize for subs or supers (at least the latest Q version). You can run a pistol brace on either a piston or DI upper as both still require the buffer tube.

Thanks.  Adjustable gas block on the q?  Is it user serviceable on the fly or is it allen wrehch?  Can I buy one?  

If thats the case I should just get a PSA 7.5'' upper for$249 switch out the upper reciever and the hand guards when I find something that fits and call it a day.  Only shorter barrel I can find is a kak 6.25'' for $275!  Or buy one for $75 and pay my smith 100 to chop it.  Not worth it.  I was all hot to get a piston gun but I guess its not right.

How does the sig have a folding stock?

The honey badger by q has an adjustable gas block I would assume, you can buy the entire rifle only I think for around 2k ish.

I'm not an expert on piston ARs so I don't really know too much about them other than they are not all the same system.

The MCX and MPX use a piston, you can supposedly find mcx uppers with an adapter for an ar lower but those are pretty much vaporware and like you said earlier recall prone, and sig has a nasty habit of making different generations of products non-compatible.

Its spring and bolt carrier assembly is different where it doesn't utilize a buffer tube.



ETA: Here's the HB gas block which is keyed and secured via a castle nut to a threaded part of the barrel much like KAC's Mod 2 gas system. It's a very nifty setup.

Cool.  I cant tell if its adjustable on the fly like a fal though.  Im guessing the first diagram is of a piston driven system?  I hate buffer tube sproing (noise).  Would like piston driven.  Then when I finally sbr it I can put a folder or telescoping stock that collapses allll the way.

The first picture is the Sig MCX recoil and bolt assembly. The second picture is the Q Honey Badger gas block which is a traditional DI setup using a standard AR bolt and buffer tube assembly (their stock is unique but the idea remains that buffer and spring are housed in the receiver extension). I think gas adjustments can be made through a MLOK rail cutout. To be honest though Blackout does not suffer as much from overgas issues as short 5.56 barrels do.

If you don't like spring noise you can grease your recoil spring or use something like JP's Silent Capture Spring which eliminates the "sproing" noise. I'm a big fan of the JP SCS and use them in all my suppressed builds.

While not an exact clone either, the "Colt Canada" version looks like it would be easier to clone



Thats a Maxim Defense stock... While the upper is impossible to get, a KAC URX4 looks like it would be close.

Nice.  I have to go maxim pistol brace till I sbr it.  Im well on the way.  I got my upper reciever and lower today both black cause thats all I could get.  I went with the aero lower instead of the GFY.  My FFL had the aero in stock for $99 and the roll mark doesnt bother me for that aspect of a clone.  Ordered the maxim in FDE.  I picked up a SA arms bleed off gas block of EE for $65.  Im still looking at barrels.  Want a 6'' but they no makee.  KAK has a 6.25 but there $275  and I havent heard anything good about them.  faxon has a 7.5'' for $142.50 and PA  has a bear creel for $72.  Anybody care to chime in?  I am looking for a cheaper barrel any length, as I can have my smith chop and thread it.  Im looking at finishes and really like the look of the AAC in first pic.  Looking up colors on cera coats website I found desert gold and the pics of parts with that color distressed with black look close to the finish on it.  Company who did it is in virginia.  Still looking at handguards.  Cant use square drops cause they dont make them short enough and they dont fit over my fat ass trash panda.

Eventually I will cerakote my rifle, I was looking through a catalogue and found H-153 which is a little lighter in color than the aac in the first pic.

Im wondering is the uneven finish due to wear and carbon fouling?  Im really interested in this look.  Thanks for the color info.

I just found a 6'' barell from right to bear for $129.  I searched for 3 days.  The hand guard is being difficult.  I want the 1st version you pictured but cant find one either short enough to be behind the can or wide enough to fit over the can and still look like it.

You are correct, the dark coloring is from dirt and grime.

The only rail that I know of that looks like the AAC is the Troy Mlok Rail, but the shortest length is 7 inches. Can be found here.

The only rails I can think of fitting over the Trash Panda might be the Aero Precision rails, and even then I don't know if they would fit.

Thanks, looks like Ill get the troy and a 7.5'' barrel.  Alot of .300 BLK stuff Im searching is out of stock, frustrating as Im obsessed with this thing.  I see Primary Arms has a bear creek for $72, are they any good?  Brownnells has a faxon for $142.50.  Im not going to be shooting past 100 yds with the gun so I dont need a match barrel.

Spikes BAR might fit, but it wnt look like you want it to.
https://www.spikestactical.com/collections/rails/products/parts-rails-mlok

Says 1.5'' ID not even close.  I have found a couple that will fit but dont look anything like what I want.  The troy is GTG  and I ordered it before its out of stock.  Everything should be together in a week or so.  My gunsmith takes care of me and he should have it built in a couple days .  Just need to touch base with the ceracoat guy and see what he wants assembled or not before he coats.  His schedule is what Im worried about as far as timing goes.  Im doing the reciever and barell in the Q bronze color and the stock, handguards and all the moving reciever parts in the titanium color.

Good thread. I’ve been wanting to make a Honey Badger clone-ish as well since I have a spare SBR lower and spare .30 cal silencer.

Looking at the AAC squaredrop rail; how can they fit a .30 cal silencer under there? The ID is only 1.3” according to AAC’s website. My narrowest .30 cal silencer is 1.5”.

I think they are custom parts on the guns.  My can is 1.75 and the other is 1.62.  They make handguarsd that fit over but are pricey and dont have the look I want and they get hot quick.  I went with a short 7'' troy as have alot of other people.  Even when you get a handguard to go over the can you usually cant mount anything over the can because of clearance issues.  It looks cool but functionally not so much.

Yeah I’m kind of coming to that conclusion. I have a .22 can under a rail to fill my “integral” look fix anyway.

That 7” Troy looks pretty nice. That’ll probably be what I’ll go with. Although I’m also looking at a 6” rail / 7” Barrel combo possibly. I think that is what the Q Badger uses.

Badger uses a 7'' barrel but I couldnt find one.  I could find 6'', 6 1/4'' or 7.5''.  With my cherry bomb comp It should fit perfect with the 7'' troy.

Gotcha. Yeah I was having trouble finding 6” handguards. Looking forward to pics of your build.

I went with an Odin works for my handguard

Ill post pics here in a bit, if I can remember...

Eta*pics

Tried my hardest to get as close to the original AAC HB design

BHW 7.5in barrel (started life as 9 in)
Spikes upper and lower
Troy PDW stock and bolt carrier group
DeadAir Sandman S
Cerakoted myself- burnt bronze on recievers, magpul fde for handguard (Odin)

No suppressor, collapsed
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Suppressed and collapsed
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And fully extended measures 30in while suppressed


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Love this gun
It's my HD weapon, my short deployment PDW, and general do-it-all SBR

Well done!

I need to get building on mine. Those PDW stocks are just so damn expensive.

I built mine with the Maxim brace. Cut a PSA barrel down to 7.0". It originally wore a DT Omega, but I'm considering the Omega 9k setup which is shorter and lighter, but louder.

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Yes the PDW are pricey.  Mine just came in.  $340 in black.  The SB 3?  looks almost the same and is less.  Just saw one today.  Would have went with it but too late.   I also noticed that aero makes a similair hand guard as the troy for $69!  I could have saved almost $200 going this route.  Oh well its only money at this point!My final parts will be in wed, then off for cera cote.

What color?

Although I went BB, I almost did a tungsten grey (I did my AK in tungsten, turned out perfect)

Im doing mine in 2 colors.  Meeting with the applicator end of week.  Im going gold/bronze and tungsten/titanium.  The  upper/lower and barrel will be gold and the hand guard, buffer tube and lower parts will be titanium.  PG and butt stock will be black.

Niiice

My AA PDW I converted to 300BO

ETA: i only had good luck running the 208gr factory hornady subsonics, using a light spring/buffer combo. I wonder if the PDW stock would work.

The PDW stock comes w a proprietary BCG w buffer built on and spring.  Dunno if it would work.  Try an adjustable gas block

LOL the Adams Arms PDW is a gas piston upper. It runs fine with the Hornady Amax 208 Factory loads as well as Supersonics but it didn't run with any of the other Factory subsonic loads that I had to try. We had to open the gas port a quite a bit to get to subsonics to run. We only tried to subsonics with the suppressor. We didn't end up using a lighter buffer spring.

That sux bud

I typoed that. We DID end up using a lighter spring with a standard buffer to get it to run with hornady factory 208 subsonics suppressed. It runs just fine with supersonic ammo both suppressed and unsuppressed.

It's been a fun project. HEAVY.

HB barrels are now available. Snagged me a 7".

https://liveqordie.com/products/honey-badger-by-q-barrel-assembly?variant=7871891275804