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Posted: 12/23/2021 1:52:25 PM EDT
The day we've all been waiting on is upon us. After a 45 minute password reset process, constant 504 errors, and waiting a few minutes for each new page to load, eForm 4 is available.
Anybody successfully gotten one submitted? We went bust at the "Add Firearm" screen, as our eForm inventory is showing we've got..... nothing in inventory. Looks like the only option for uploading digital fingerprints is in an EFT format, which I'm guessing very few were setup with scanners ready to go for. The alternative generates a cover letter for the customer to submit their fingerprints via mail, similar to an eForm 1.  Attached File |
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Posted: 12/23/2021 2:06:18 PM EDT
[#1]
Looks like a mere five grand to get the fingerprint scanner from this source
https://www.bayometric.com/atf-live-scan-nfa-fingerprinting/ |
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Posted: 12/23/2021 2:24:39 PM EDT
[#2]
I cant believe they are going to make everyone change their password manually over the phone. During Xmas week.
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Posted: 12/23/2021 2:32:40 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I cant believe they are going to make everyone change their password manually over the phone. During Xmas week. I was able to change my password without calling. The button will seem like it isn't doing anything, but if you wait a few minutes you'll get an email with a one time password. I didn't think it was responding and ended up getting 7 one time use passwords, so go with the most recently received if you get more than one. |
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Posted: 12/23/2021 2:34:02 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I was able to change my password without calling. The button will seem like it isn't doing anything, but if you wait a few minutes you'll get an email with a one time password. This is the email I got: Please contact the ATF Help Desk (1-877-875-3723) to reset your eForms account password. Thank you for using ATF's eForms system. |
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Posted: 12/23/2021 2:59:00 PM EDT
[#5]
In for info.
I won't be able to do mine until later. |
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Posted: 12/23/2021 3:20:46 PM EDT
[#6]
I'm logged in and pin created. It shows the F1 I submitted last month for a SBR.
LGS called today to let me know the Turbo K I ordered came in so I'll be sitting the F4 next week at the store. Will send prints via mail when I get the cover letter printed. Sure would be nice to get a 90 or 120 day turnaround on a eForm 4. |
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Posted: 12/23/2021 3:27:32 PM EDT
[#7]
I'm still optimistic it will improve, but I'm about 1.5 total hours into the first form and it's crashed completely 3 times, requiring starting from scratch. Currently showing over 40 draft form 4's, none of which have any information retained.
Adding insult to injury, the most recent crash occurred when the pay.gov pop up got blocked by my browser. The trick seems to be waiting until a field is auto populated. Enter a zip code, DOB, whatever, and don't do anything else or leave the window until the information auto populates, or the next fields you need become selectable. Without improvement it wouldn't be realistic for a medium sized place like ours to rely on for submissions from purely a time management standpoint. |
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Posted: 12/24/2021 12:41:06 AM EDT
[#8]
I'll wait for the rest of y'all to finish beta testing it.
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Posted: 12/24/2021 11:22:32 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm still optimistic it will improve, but I'm about 1.5 total hours into the first form and it's crashed completely 3 times, requiring starting from scratch. Currently showing over 40 draft form 4's, none of which have any information retained. Adding insult to injury, the most recent crash occurred when the pay.gov pop up got blocked by my browser. The trick seems to be waiting until a field is auto populated. Enter a zip code, DOB, whatever, and don't do anything else or leave the window until the information auto populates, or the next fields you need become selectable. Without improvement it wouldn't be realistic for a medium sized place like ours to rely on for submissions from purely a time management standpoint. |
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Posted: 12/24/2021 3:56:05 PM EDT
[#10]
Had to call and get my passoword reset. I guess I'll do a form 4 for myself to test after Christmas.
How to do they take prints, pics, signatures, and payment? Also how will SS get around the "be present in person to answer the questions part" of the process? Wonder if it will be worth using SS in the future. The cost was well worth it for paper forms. |
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Posted: 12/25/2021 5:18:14 PM EDT
[#11]
I had to call to get my password reset, after 3 or 4 failed attempts on the self service option. I did spend less than 10 minutes on hold, but I was able to finally get in (Thursday 12/23 @ 14:27 PST). My history all seems to be there (1 Form 1, 7 Form 4s, smattering of Form 3s.)
I tried doing a Form 4 as a test shortly afterwards, but it errored out at the Transferor screen, saying I need to be an SOT and the SOT Class drop down box didn't work. I used the "ask the expert" option and sent them a question about it. Haven't received a response yet, but I just logged in and started the edit on the draft Form 4, and now it seems to be working correctly and "63" is populated in the SOT Class drop down. But then I clicked around to a few different steps and came back to the Transferor screen, and now the SOT error is back. My list of available items seems correct too, though I do see a suppressor listed that shouldn't be (F4 to customer was approved May 2018). I guess I need to call and ask about that..... Overall, the system seems to be typical government: complete fucking trash. |
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Posted: 12/28/2021 1:32:34 AM EDT
[#12]
I did it the other day without issues.
Okay so here are the steps: 1. Goto https://eforms.atf.gov/login 2. Press the "Forgot Password?" located right under the Log in button. 3. Enter your User Name in the text box and press the "Next" button. 4. Enter in your associated email address. and press "Next" button. 5. Go to you email and get your temporary password. Email will be from "[email protected]" 6. Click the link "HERE" in the email and enter in your user name and password. Note don't worry about adding any thing in front of your name.. it autofilled for me. 7. User name, current password (the temporary one), enter in your new password. After you Submit, it would bring you back to the main login.. just Login again. Hope that helps. |
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Posted: 12/28/2021 1:16:13 PM EDT
[#13]
Quoted: The day we've all been waiting on is upon us. After a 45 minute password reset process, constant 504 errors, and waiting a few minutes for each new page to load, eForm 4 is available. Anybody successfully gotten one submitted? We went bust at the "Add Firearm" screen, as our eForm inventory is showing we've got..... nothing in inventory. Looks like the only option for uploading digital fingerprints is in an EFT format, which I'm guessing very few were setup with scanners ready to go for. The alternative generates a cover letter for the customer to submit their fingerprints via mail, similar to an eForm 1. Thanks for posting the image. Found a company called Printscan that does fingerprinting and offers EFT files, may make an appointment soon. |
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Posted: 12/28/2021 2:40:32 PM EDT
[#14]
I just checked the inventory on a form 3, and it looks like they've gotten all mine so far. I'll have two customers going through SS for theirs, so I'm not trying any myself until the process gets sorted.
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Posted: 12/28/2021 8:33:34 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Looks like a mere five grand to get the fingerprint scanner from this source https://www.bayometric.com/atf-live-scan-nfa-fingerprinting/ Woah, is there not a cheaper alternative? |
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Posted: 12/28/2021 9:12:32 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Woah, is there not a cheaper alternative? |
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Posted: 12/30/2021 9:09:28 AM EDT
[#17]
I assume if I get PW reset failed I must call in to reset it ?
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Posted: 12/30/2021 10:04:16 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I assume if I get PW reset failed I must call in to reset it ? |
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Posted: 12/30/2021 11:33:46 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I assume if I get PW reset failed I must call in to reset it ? |
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Posted: 1/4/2022 10:28:35 PM EDT
[#20]
I'm ready to start submitting eForm 4's.... but the fingerprint segment has me confused.
My system generates FD-258 PDF's or Word documents that can either print direct to the .gov supplied finger print card, or to cardstock. Is one of those PDF's acceptable? The FBI Specification 8.1.0 EFT isn't exactly spelled out in a noticeable place. |
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Posted: 1/4/2022 11:26:45 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My system generates FD-258 PDF's or Word documents that can either print direct to the .gov supplied finger print card, or to cardstock. Is one of those PDF's acceptable? Quote HistoryQuoted: My system generates FD-258 PDF's or Word documents that can either print direct to the .gov supplied finger print card, or to cardstock. Is one of those PDF's acceptable? They're looking for a Biometric Electronic File Transaction (EFT) file. Most systems seem to generate such files with a *.NIST extension rather than a *.EFT extension. The FBI Specification 8.1.0 EFT isn't exactly spelled out in a noticeable place. https://fbibiospecs.fbi.gov/file-repository/ebts_v8_1_11-19-08.pdf The latest approved version is 11.0 and I found the above 8.1 document here in their archives: https://www.fbibiospecs.cjis.gov/EBTS/Archive Where eForms states "Transaction type must be FAUF" they're referring to the TOT (Type of Transaction) field within the EFT file. FAUF specifies "Federal Applicant User Fee". Here are all the TOTs for tenprint submissions: TOT TRANSACTION CAR Criminal Tenprint Submission (Answer Required) CNA Criminal Tenprint Submission (No Answer Necessary) CPDR Criminal Fingerprint Direct Route CPNU Criminal Fingerprint Processing Non-Urgent DOCE Departmental Order Channeling Electronic EMUF Electronic In/Manual Out User Fee Submissions FANC Federal Applicant (No Charge) FAUF Federal Applicant User Fee FNDR Federal No Charge Direct Route NNDR Non-Federal No Charge Direct Route NFAP Non-Federal Advanced Payment NFUE Non-Federal UserFee Expedite NFUF Non-Federal Applicant User Fee MAP Miscellaneous Applicant Civil DEK Known Deceased DEU Unknown Deceased MPR Missing Person AMN Amnesia Victim Looks like there are various versions of EBTS implemented at different federal agencies, so you'll have to ensure the EFT file complies with whatever specific version the receiving agency is utilizing (which is 8.1.0 in this case). Here's an example of various EFT fields/contents (which they refer to as record types) from the state of Texas: https://www.dps.texas.gov/sites/default/files/documents/administration/crime_records/docs/cjis/txdpsrpis-rpisr-errtdef.pdf |
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Posted: 1/4/2022 11:37:23 PM EDT
[#22]
@HansohnBrothers
Did your fingerprint software company come up with anything? I saw your post where you mentioned it. |
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Posted: 1/5/2022 6:00:49 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: @HansohnBrothers Did your fingerprint software company come up with anything? I saw your post where you mentioned it. |
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Posted: 1/6/2022 1:47:29 AM EDT
[#24]
Did a whole 14 eform4's today. Only submitted 8. Took me nearly all day. Having customers who are computer literate and already have accounts with pins setup makes it much easier. Waiting 15-20min for them to figure out their pin isn't fun.
Having to type in or copy/paste everyone's info for every form is a PITA. Need the ability to save people's profiles or info. Oddly enough filling in the CLEO info page took the longest out of everything. The ability to search nfa items transfered to you is nice... don't have to enter that info. We will be sending in hard copies of fingerprints for now... as we bought some software that's in Beta testing and doesn't fo EFT files currently. |
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Posted: 1/6/2022 2:56:24 AM EDT
[#25]
So......finally able to be let in to change my password.
Now the old system was down on Wednesdays; I don't know if that's still the case? The old eforms site would only work for me using Chrome browser. It works with Chrome and Safari now, I have confirmed. |
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Posted: 1/6/2022 3:09:09 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So......finally able to be let in to change my password. Now the old system was down on Wednesdays; I don't know if that's still the case? The old eforms site would only work for me using Chrome browser. It works with Chrome and Safari now, I have confirmed. Browsers seem hit or miss. Was working on Chrome for me on 1x PC yesterday, then today it would just load and load for me. Switch to Firefox or Microsoft Edge... worked no issue. I noticed their new website says Microsoft on it, so I'll just stick with their Egde assuming it should work. |
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Posted: 1/6/2022 4:26:12 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Browsers seem hit or miss. Was working on Chrome for me on 1x PC yesterday, it would just load and load for me. Switch to Firefox or Microsoft Edge... worked no issue. I noticed their new website says Microsoft on it, so I'll just stick either Egde assuming it should work. Mr Esstac! Good to see you on. I hope this latest upgrade works across the board on browsers. |
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Posted: 1/6/2022 5:52:26 AM EDT
[#28]
Yeah I am rather surprised every transmitting software for eft is as expensive as it is. Kind of prices out smaller dealers, but I guess if you're a business that does fingerprinting and background checks constantly it's palatable.
Still hoping to find a solution, seems that some of the other options I've gotten quotes on are also trying to sell me hardware that I don't really need (laptop, printer, etc...). I just need my Kojak to transmit digitally on the eft. |
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Posted: 3/22/2022 3:55:16 PM EDT
[#29]
Has anyone found a reasonably priced fingerprint scanner/software alternative for small dealers?
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Posted: 3/22/2022 4:17:43 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Has anyone found a reasonably priced fingerprint scanner/software alternative for small dealers? Doesn't exist unfortunately.. we ended up going with a print scan, came out to around 3,500 |
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Posted: 3/22/2022 6:03:12 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Has anyone found a reasonably priced fingerprint scanner/software alternative for small dealers? |
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Posted: 3/22/2022 6:35:52 PM EDT
[#32]
We're using THIS
Its still sort of in BETA, but we're already getting eforms approved with the prints we've taken. I've got it hooked up to a laptop and it works well. |
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Posted: 3/23/2022 3:18:04 PM EDT
[#33]
I went with Fulcrum Biometrics.
I'm a small dealer, I don't do this full time, and it's paying for itself. |
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