I have 2 - 11.5"  SR15's, and a 16" SR25.  I ordered a Sandman S, but want to get a second suppressor in the Q. I like simplicity and commonality. I don't want different muzzle devices etc, so i'd like to be locked into Keymo. I also want to go with something Silencer shop has readily in stock so I can place the order sooner than later. The only brand they seem to have in stock is DA right now.

So, I was thinking about picking up a Nomad or Nomad L. I looked at silencershop reviews on youtube, and it seems the Nomad L is much quieter at the muzzle than the Sandman S, but almost the same at the ear? I'm not sure if this is factual. Should I bother grabbing a Nomad or Nomad L in conjunction with the Sandman S? Or just wait for some other keymo adaptable brand to come in stock? Again, it would have to be a brand that is stocked readily, as I'd like to place the order soon. Or just buy another Sandman S

It’s possible because the nomad has more volume being a sealed unit vs the sandman. The nomad only comes with a 30 cal thread adapter. If you’re married to keymo, then you’ll need to buy the keymo adapter too. This is why I wish I would have just bought the YHM Resonator instead. It’s cheaper and you can sell the YHM mounting hardware to recoup some of the cost of a keymo adapter.

The nomad is dope and still worth getting.

In a gas gun, you are going to get noise from the gas port. That noise is going to be louder if the can is longer. Therefore, the L will likely be louder than the S on a gas gun. Pappas has explained this in a few videos.

Nothing wrong with getting another S. I'm considering a Nomad Ti direct thread for a lightweight option, I could always add keymo down the road for more of a middleweight option that is QD.

I really like my Nomad. Looking at the Sandman-S, it's not going to be much different than the regular Nomad in length or weight, so if I just wanted another of the same, the Nomad will do well. If I wanted something a bit different, I'd get the Nomad-L. You still need hearing protection with a gas gun anyway, but at least with the nomad-L, you can put it on a bolt gun and it'll be really quiet.

For quite a while the “Charlie” (Saker compatible) Keymo mounts were available and cheaper than the Bravo /Omega threaded Keymo that the Nomad uses. If that still holds a good fit might be an Omega 36M. The 9mm bore and modular length will let you adjust length/weight/back pressure somewhat and give you more caliber versatility.

I have shot a lot of suppressors. The nomad is the best can I have used.

Best in what way(s)?

I have both of those rifles, and run them with a Sandman S. They sound excellent. Good enough, I ordered another Sandman S. I also have a Nomad L in jail. I may throw a Keymo on it to see how it sounds on the SR25, but I got it mostly for a future bolt rifle. I would think there would be a lot of blowback compared to the Sandman S on a gas gun.

Wow good to know. Blow backs alright on the 11.5” CQB?

I'm in the exact same boat - waiting on a Sandman S and looking to get the ball rolling on another.

I'm thinking either a Sandman K or L for my second. Probably the K.

If I had it to do over again, I would not of gotten my Sandman L.
I love my Sandman S.
You will hate the sandman k, You will still need muffs with it.
If you get a Nomad L to go with your Sandman S you will have the perfect pair.

I have the Sandman S & K and the Nomad. I really like the Nomad and run it almost exclusively on a  CMMG 7.62x39 with 10 inch barrel. It has been great so far and it makes the gun about 1/2 pound light than when I use me Sandman S with the mount.

I have 2 Sandman S and K, 1 Sandman L, 3 Nomads (naked, regular, and Ti), and one Nomad L. They are all good for what they are.

I love the sandman line for the simplicity. Basic, super durable can with a great QD mount.

Nomads are lighter, have better sound suppression, and are more versatile with the mounting system.

Yes it's fine. I played with the 556 end cap and it sounded the same to my ears, so I don't worry about it. The Sandman K with a 556 end cap on my SR15 carbine is one of my favorite rifles though.

Haha, wow. So would you say the nomad L is a lot quieter at the ear than the Sandman S? This would be contrary to what the SilencerShop data says. But I’m just looking for real world perspective. Otherwise I’m just grabbing another sandman S, if theres no real benefit.

I have the Nomad, Nomad L, and Sandman S.  To my ears the Nomad L is quieter than the Nomad or Sandman S.  I use TBAC, Plan A, and KeyMo mounts.  I like the Plan A best, and that is what I keep on my Nomads.  I also have adjustable gas blocks on most of my rifles, and tune each one to the ammunition and suppressor I use.  I prefer dedicated combinations.  That may be part of the difference between what I hear vs what you saw on the videos.  I have a Nomad L Ti in jail that I plan to try out with the EA 1.375x24 CB adapter on some of my precision/bolt guns, to see how it compares to my TBAC suppressors.  What you want in terms of length, weight, POI shift, and ruggedness are just as important as sound suppression, or at least they are to me.  I moved away from the KeyMo, even though I like it, because of length and weight.  I prefer the 1.375x24 for the variety of mounting options available.  I would rank the Nomad and Nomad L higher than the Sandman S for that reason.  If you want a suppressor to subject to heavy abuse however, the Sandman S is the best option.

I think I’ve only ever run my Nomad L on a 6.5 Grendel SBR. It does a good job on that, but I don’t have a great basis for comparison to the Sandman S.

This is interesting because lots of folks on here say they don't like the K. I wonder if they haven't tried the endcap, Or maybe just different expectations.

Sending you a DM.

It would really shock me if it does.  Really not trying to spend the $ on somthing if it doesnt work.

So to describe how loud the K is vs the S.  The S sounds like Pew! and the K sounds like BANG!!!!!.

By all accounts the Nomad is a good can and you mentioned you were in a hurry to buy, but for a similar amount of money, you could get a pair of Turbo Ks or a Turbo and a Turbo K if you don't mind waiting until they are in stock. Then you could have a can for each gun. If you are married to Keymo, you could sell the YHM mounts and muzzle devices that come with the Turbos to offset the Keymo purchase price.

Also, concerning at-ear numbers, I have read a lot from one brand or another claiming to be quieter at the ear because of reduced backpressure or whatnot. Suppressed Nation has two video comparisons on an 11.5" AR and a 16" AR that are interesting on this point. For the 11.5", nearly all of the cans of different shapes, makes, and size measured about 1-2dB from each other, with one exception that was significantly louder than the others. For their 16" video, they are all within around 3dB of each other. I don't know the truth of it, but it's frequently repeated that the human ear has difficulty detecting a difference of much less than 3dB. I think you may find some cans that are less gassy out of the port due to lower backpressure, but I don't think you'll find a can that is substantially quieter at the port due to less backpressure.

Worth noting, the Suppressed Nation shootoffs included both the Sandman K and the Nomad, and they were within about 1dB at the ear, with the Sandman K being quieter at the ear on the 11.5" gun and the Nomad being quieter at the ear on the 16" gun. For all intensive purposes, the numbers were so close as to be the same.

I did recently think that instead of being married to Keymo, i'lll just buy 3 suppressors. One for each 11.5" and one for the SR25. And leave them on. Thus not worry about mounts. Still not sure what to buy though to compliment the Sandman S even if I did approach it this way.  I liken this suppressor buying to an arranged marriage or something. Gotta buy / invest in something you can't even date. Geez. So why would you recommend a YHM over the deadair?

You asked why YHM? It isn't so much the brand as that the Turbo and Turbo K are just really nice suppressors. They are well-made from good materials, quiet for their size, backed by a stable and well-known company, and very competitively priced. There is a reason no one can keep them in stock.

The other reason I suggested them is that they just fit nicely with your armory. You've got a .30 cal can for your big gun/SR25. You can get a Nomad or a Nomad-L with a Keymo, but those both start to get pretty long, and the Sandman S isn't particularly petite. If I were in your shoes, I just keep the Sandman on the SR25, and get K-cans for the SBRs. ARs are still loud to the shooter because of the gas through the bolt carrier/ejection port, so from the shooter's perspective, a really big /quiet can on a SBR isn't going to be much different to you. The Turbo K is quite compact, especially with the Kurz kit, and it's not that much louder than a Sandman S. If environmental noise, like disturbing neighbors, is more of an issue to make you worry about at-muzzle numbers, the fullsize Turbo meters about the same as a Nomad on 5.56 while being lighter and shorter once you've added the Keymo. Or you can get one Turbo and one Turbo K if you want flexibility, and it would price out about the same as Nomad plus Keymo mount and device.

Overall, they just seemed like nice choices for your 11.5" SBRs in my mind. No disrespect to the Nomad or the Sandman though, they are great cans.

I hear ya. I appreciate the well thought out response. I’m going to do some reading about them now.

Anyone have OSS cans? I see SS has them in stock as well. If I dedicate a suppressor to each gun, and don’t worry about keymo, Thinking about grabbing a 5.56 ti to try on one of the 11.5” guns. And grab a K for the other 11.5” gun.  Not sure how the 5.56 compares to the sandman s.

I know a guy who has one and likes it. Seems like a cool concept. I’d probably get one if I didn’t have dead air mounting systems on everything

People who don't like the Sandman K probably have unrealistic expectations or don't see/have a need for its intended role.

It's not make for knocking 30 decibels off, it's made to keep the overall length of the weapon gun as short as possible while making the gun more tolerable to shoot.

Its not.

Out of all my friends that I shoot with all say it sounds unsuppressed. My gripe is i just wanted it to sound a little suppressed. It sounds like a 300blk subs through a 16” gun unsuppressed.

It does sound ok on 300blk subs.

Im gonna try the 556 end cap.

The fun part of the Sandman-K is that you're only adding 2.9" to the length of the rifle.  The 3 baffles that are in there are doing a lot of work, but that 5.56 front cap will do a ton.  I recommend the 5.56 flash hider front cap (DA305).  I was also surprised how well the E-Brake worked on it for softening it up.  That adds an extra 1".  

Todd Magee
Dead Air Engineering

Thanks. Will be ordering the 556 FH end cap.

That's a tough one.  Either Nomad will sound great on those, but the Nomad-30 will probably suit your needs better.  My thinking is, if you have a compact rifle, keep the suppressor compact also to keep up the theme. The Nomad-L is crazy quiet at the muzzle with very little backpressure added but the added length may lead you to thinking of it as more of benchrest item.  Also, the at-ear thing is interesting from a shooters perspective.  On both, the at-ear sound will be about the same, but that's GREATER than the muzzle report, so you won't hear the awesomeness of the Nomad-L out there unless there's environment around you to reflect sound.  Other people will stop and look when you're shooting it, though.  

Another note on at-ear testing.  @Peachy mentioned the testing done by Suppressed Nation.  I love those guys and they put a ton of work into that testing, so I don't want this to be taken as a negative critique.  They chose some pretty amazingly loud weapon systems to work with.  The value of the test is to look at those particular systems.  Yours may vary immensely.  There's also the possibility of "washback effect" on the at-ear sound.  At some point (over 146-147 dB and depending on barrel length) the muzzle report is louder than the at-ear sound and that mic (or your ear) picks it up. That's a good thing to remember for those guys that trying to keep it all super compact.

The point is, some suppressors respond really well (OK, the rifle system does) to small adjustments in buffer weight, gas system changes, etc., and the Nomad and Sandman suppressors play very well with others. If you were trying to dial in your rifle to be hearing safe, you'll get there the most easily with those two.  

So, @AndysAR15name, I think you'll just need to decide if you want your systems longer or shorter.  Also, that SR25 will probably have a 3/4-24 thread.  You'll need a DA103 brake for that if you haven't already.  We're out right now of those, but they're in process.  

Todd Magee
Dead Air Engineering

Would using the micro brake reduce the performance on the k?  I just put one on a 16” mid 556. Haven’t shot it.

Another question, I have a .264 cap on it. Would you still recommend a .22 cap?

Thanks!

Make sure you check the alignment.  I bought one of these for a Sandman K, but didn't end up using it because I was concerned about the alignment.  This can had already gone back once.  It shoots fine with the 30 cal endcap, so I just left it that way.  @mageever

I dont check alignment

Lots of folks don’t even shoot through their cans, so alignment is never a problem in special accessory instalike land.

I’ve managed to tickle a few baffles and scar a few front caps even with checking. I’ve also been blessed by accidental perfect alignment (.30 cal front cap on a hybrid mag dumping and bursts through a MP5 with 9mm subsonics. SiCo makes generous .30 cal front caps).

I still have a MysticX with a few strikes towards the end. Its been back to the factory twice and THEY confirmed it was concentric. So i just deal with it.

@jwlaxton I responded to your PM before seeing this.  Please see my response there.

I usually always throw that instruction down when I mention front caps.  By making ours interchangeable, we really have to plan around a lot of variation.  From the end user's rifle to our own weld variation.

When changing to a reduced diameter front cap, always check your alignment.  It's really good to note that alignment is rarely absolutely perfect.  There's typically a small amount of variation, but we plan for that with a generous bore and front cap.  For example, we can allow up to 30 thou' of runout at the end of a suppressor (depending on which one), and so the front cap is designed with a normal clearance of a bullet flying through that bore and then that tolerance is added in.  As long as the bullet isn't flying within about 10-15 thou' of the wall of that cap (or baffles inside), then it will still work perfectly.  If the bullet is flying closer than that past a baffle or front cap, it can sometimes induce some precision variation (group sizes will open up) and there's usually an accuracy change (the group moves much farther from unsuppressed than it's supposed to).

A bore rod will typically give you a "worst case" view because there's always a little slop in the fitment and it will lean and take up some of that.  Additionally, it can run 10-20 thou' on average.  I've see rods touch front caps and then machinegunned with with them and nothing happened.  What it usually means, though, is that the bullet is still getting very close to that front cap bore and it could affect it's flight. If it's a "hard touch", like's it's really pressing into it, then you don't want to shoot it and let's try to figure out what the issue is.  Bore rods can get pretty subjective, but they're a good gauge of roughly what's going on. If it's super close, it's good to get a second set of eyes on it and possibly even test shoot it.  



Any brake will help the -K.  I've used our 6.5mm caps extensively on cans where I was uncomfortable running a 5.56 one, so I bet it will be awesome.  I've ran those 6.5 caps extensively, especially since our early 5.56 ones were a little overtight on that bore.  I wasn't planning well back then for the bell curve of tens of thousands of cans/barrels/mounts that would eventually be sold.  Lol.

Todd Magee
Dead Air Engineering

Todd, thanks for all the replies and info. Much appreciated as I am getting into the game w products in jail, and slowly picking up brakes, mounts, caps etc.

Thats what I did except I kept the YHM hardware for a rainy day.  You never know when it might become handy.

Good thoughts and info. Thanks!

After posting this Todd Magee had me send this Sandman K back to fix it.  He had them re-core it.  They received it on a Friday, and shipped it out the following Tuesday.  That's a pretty good turnaround time.  Thanks @Mageever for the great customer service!!