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Link Posted: 3/10/2020 8:19:16 PM EDT
[#1]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Thanks.

I know I don't need their approval, I was just curious if anyone knew if one or the other was "better" for the sake of being supportive of rights.  I'd rather 'notify' the one who is more likely to file it in the shredder than add it to a database.  If such a difference exists.  Know what I mean?

ETA the form 1 only thing... really?  Is that just for permanent moves?  I have a class I'm going to take with a form 4 firearm across state lines, I've always been told I need to request the permission slip first.
View Quote
Yes. Notice the 5320.20 form says "certain nfa" items. If you read the instructions it specifies machine guns, SBRs and SBS. Nothing about silencers.

Attachment Attached File


See (a)

Attachment Attached File
Link Posted: 3/10/2020 8:19:17 PM EDT
[#2]
Link Posted: 3/10/2020 8:20:29 PM EDT
[#3]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

It’s not a Form 1 vs Form 4 deal. It’s dependent on the type of firearm.

SBRs, SBSs, MGs and DDs require permission for temporary interstate transport.
Silencers and AOWs do not.
View Quote
Yup, this. I should have been more clear. See the instructions above.

As a side note, this is the reason some people (including myself) keep a pistol brace so I can "convert" my SBR back into a pistol configuration for interstate transfer. There's some debate on whether or not the interstate transfer rules apply to nfa items that have been converted back to a pistol or a full length rifle, but I don't think they would. YMMV
Link Posted: 3/11/2020 12:14:33 AM EDT
[#4]
Yeah, I was aware of silencers and AOWs not needing it.  I thought you were saying only form 1 items needed it at all, which frankly sounded crazy.
Link Posted: 5/20/2020 10:21:29 PM EDT
[#5]
OK, doing for my first Form 4 in more than 4 years...

So applying as a Trust for a suppressor...
I do not sign #13 "Transferee Necessity Statement (See instruction 2e)", nor do I fill out the Transferee Questions, right?

And then I send the two ATF copies (ATF Copy and ATF Copy 2 - To Be Returned to Registrant) with passport photos attached and a total of 2 fingerprint cards and Form 5320.23.

CLEO gets his copy without photo or fingerprint cards, but with a Form 5320.23.
Link Posted: 7/18/2020 6:40:04 PM EDT
[#6]
Guys, I'm going to start doing a couple Form 1s to do an SBR.  I have a couple questions:

I'm looking to take the posted 258 PDF and fill it out completely to make future prints a lot easier.  So my questions are:
  • Can I take the posted PDF version of the 258 and put all my info in there and print it out?  It says "Type" is acceptable, not just print.  
  • Place of Birth - So for Pennsylvania, I would just put "PA" as my POB?
  • Signature - Again, trying to do all digital, I have a pen stylist that I can make a correct signature.  Is a digital version of my signature acceptable or does it have to be signed in Ink?




Link Posted: 7/18/2020 6:52:03 PM EDT
[#7]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Guys, I'm going to start doing a couple Form 1s to do an SBR.  I have a couple questions:

I'm looking to take the posted 258 PDF and fill it out completely to make future prints a lot easier.  So my questions are:
  • Can I take the posted PDF version of the 258 and put all my info in there and print it out?  It says "Type" is acceptable, not just print.  
  • Place of Birth - So for Pennsylvania, I would just put "PA" as my POB?
  • Signature - Again, trying to do all digital, I have a pen stylist that I can make a correct signature.  Is a digital version of my signature acceptable or does it have to be signed in Ink?




View Quote


@metalsaber

Yes, you can print it.

In fact, I have made entirely digital copies of mine and my wife's prints with all info, prints, and signatures filled out and only have to print them and date it before I mail it off.

Ive used them 5x so far with no problems.

Here's the steps to digitize them with photoshop, I made a few suggestions in the thread that made them easier to print imho.

https://www.ar15.com/forums/Armory/Work-In-Progress-new-F1-F4-guide-for-41F-submissions/17-465636/?page=5&anc=4922594#i4933225
Link Posted: 7/18/2020 7:13:49 PM EDT
[#8]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


@metalsaber

Yes, you can print it.

In fact, I have made entirely digital copies of mine and my wife's prints with all info, prints, and signatures filled out and only have to print them and date it before I mail it off.

Ive used them 5x so far with no problems.

Here's the steps to digitize them with photoshop, I made a few suggestions in the thread that made them easier to print imho.

https://www.ar15.com/forums/Armory/Work-In-Progress-new-F1-F4-guide-for-41F-submissions/17-465636/?page=5&anc=4922594#i4933225
View Quote
Thanks.  Yeah I just would have to remember to change the date of them but thats not a big deal.  Yeah I was just trying to make this as idiot proof and lazy as possible.  
Got an fingerprint pad coming tomorrow so I can start doing some prints that I can then scan into GIMP.
Link Posted: 2/26/2021 5:28:28 PM EDT
[#9]
Need help with the 5320.23 PDF.  I downloaded from ATF website here:

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/form/national-firearms-act-nfa-responsible-person-questionnaire-atf-form-532023/download

It's a form type PDF, so filled it all out (Acrobat DC).  The form part on page 1 & 2 is the 'ATF' copy.  And it generates a 'LEO' copy on pages 5 & 6.  The problem is when I print.  Section 7, LEO Notification, is blank on both printed copies.  I've verified the forms are filled, but they will not come out in the printed copy.  Anybody else see this?

Also, the signature block is a digital ID of some sort.  It says I can create one.  I'm not sure how this works or how it identifies me though.  Was just gonna sign the printed copy.
Link Posted: 2/26/2021 5:51:07 PM EDT
[#10]
Link Posted: 2/26/2021 5:56:46 PM EDT
[#11]
Got it figured out.  If I save/close/reopen the file those field contents disappear as well.  It's something to do with copy/paste into those fields.  I pasted those in from the website for my AG.  Somehow, it's pasting in, but NOT into the forms.  It looks correct, but if you then click in the form window like you wanted to edit the content, everything disappears.    So, I typed all the info in and it's printing out like it should.
Link Posted: 3/7/2021 7:03:00 PM EDT
[#12]
Should the ATF copy section of the form be automatically duplicating my entered info into the ATF copy 2 and CELO copy pages of the 13 page document?
Link Posted: 3/7/2021 7:22:20 PM EDT
[#13]
Link Posted: 4/21/2021 6:07:13 PM EDT
[#14]
What's the current mailing address for a paper form 1?

Apparently the po box in Georgia is no longer valid.
Link Posted: 4/22/2021 8:06:43 AM EDT
[#15]
Link Posted: 9/10/2021 9:18:47 PM EDT
[#16]
On the 5320.20:

For the address in box 1, if I have moved intrastate to a different address, do I put my new address or the old address as listed on the original form with my new in box 5?
Link Posted: 9/11/2021 9:58:59 PM EDT
[#17]
Link Posted: 1/1/2022 2:58:34 PM EDT
[#18]
The initial post has an ATF address in GA.  I believe that has been updated to one in Portland, OR.

Do I mail my Form 4 here?

National Firearms Act Division
P.O. Box 5015
Portland, OR 97208-5015
Link Posted: 1/1/2022 3:02:38 PM EDT
[#19]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
The initial post has an ATF address in GA.  I believe that has been updated to one in Portland, OR.

Do I mail my Form 4 here?

National Firearms Act DivisionP.O. Box 5015
Portland, OR 97208-5015
View Quote



Whatever the most recent Form4 version says.  The address is on the top of the form.
Link Posted: 1/1/2022 11:27:36 PM EDT
[#20]
Link Posted: 2/4/2022 5:46:57 PM EDT
[#21]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
How to scan/print to FD-258


I've seen this asked quite a few times, here is how I do it.

Start with two separate quality ink prints on a FD-258 (roll your own, go to local LEO, etc) take extra precaution to keep your prints inbetween the lines and off any of the text.. will make your job easier later.

Scan your FD-258 cards in to your computer, I scan mine at 1200DPI, Document - black & white, PNG file type.

Once you get both of your FD-258 cards scanned in, open them up in your photo editor. I use Adobe Photoshop

Use the magic wand tool and select the white background, now click Select>Inverse. Press CTRL+X or click Edit>Cut to cut your selection. Press CTRL+N or click File>New.

Now paste your prints, CTRL+V or click Edit>Paste

Look to the lower right pane, it will say Layers and show Background and Layer 1. Layer 1 contains your prints and Background is just a white background. We need a transparent background so click the little lock next to Background to unlock the background. Now press Delete on your keyboard.

You should now see your fingerprints (and all the FD-258 form info) on a checkered background vs white.

Click the selection tool and make a box around just your prints, all of your prints in one large box. Now click Image>Crop

Now use your Eraser and erase the lines between your prints and any text. You want to just have your fingerprints left.. if your prints are over a line or text, you will need to zoom in, reduce the size of the Eraser tool and remove the lines.



Once you get done, download this .PDF of the FD-258 Open this PDF up in your photo editor, in Photoshop this will open with a transparent background. In Photoshop an Import PDF box will pop-up, make sure you select the Resolution to match the resolution your scanned your prints, in this case 1200DPI

Now go back to your fingerprint tab, press CTRL+A or click Select>All, then press CTRL+X or click Edit>Cut.

Go back to the FD-258 tab and press CTRL+V or click Edit>Paste.

This will place your finger prints over the FD-258 card. Click on the newly created layer and click Select>All.

Now click on the Move Tool and drag your prints down so they line up with the FD-258 card. At this point go ahead and print out a test page so see how your prints look, you may need to go back and adjust Brightness, Contrast, Levels, etc. I would recommend printing a test after each adjustment to see how it looks. Compare it to your original Ink FD-258.

Once you're happy with how your prints look you can select Layer 1 and press Delete. You should now have just your prints left in the correct location to fit on a FD-258. Now click on File, Print.

When the Print window pops up, click on Print Settings... change Paper Size to User Defined, 8.0" x 8.0", Portrait, Plain Paper and the Resolution to 1200DPI.

Load a few FD-258 cards in your printer (you can write Top and draw an arrow on a piece of paper and print off a test page to see the correct orientation) in my Brother laser printer I place the FD-258 cards face down, with the fingerprint portion of the card being pulled in first.

Now click print. You may get a pop-up stating the image is larger than the print material, just check Do not show again and click ok.

I do not have to play around with margins or any other settings, my prints come out perfectly centered on FD-258 cards every time.

If you have any questions feel free to ask, these instructions are for Adobe Photoshop but you should be able to use any other halfway decent Photo editing software. I have used GIMP before which is very similar to Photoshop, its free and it can be used on several different operating systems, including GNU/Linux.
View Quote
@grn_zx6r

This was *awesome*!  Thank you for taking the time to put that together!  I was able to do this using GIMP (free) and even modify it to include all the fields on the card that are required so all I need to do is put a stack of FD-258's in my printer, load the image in GIMP and print them out.  Only thing I didn't add was my signature (yeah, I know I could).  This will save me a TON of time and effort when submitting NFA stuff - thanks!
Link Posted: 2/5/2022 2:45:51 PM EDT
[#22]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
@grn_zx6r

This was *awesome*!  Thank you for taking the time to put that together!  I was able to do this using GIMP (free) and even modify it to include all the fields on the card that are required so all I need to do is put a stack of FD-258's in my printer, load the image in GIMP and print them out.  Only thing I didn't add was my signature (yeah, I know I could).  This will save me a TON of time and effort when submitting NFA stuff - thanks!
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
How to scan/print to FD-258


I've seen this asked quite a few times, here is how I do it.

Start with two separate quality ink prints on a FD-258 (roll your own, go to local LEO, etc) take extra precaution to keep your prints inbetween the lines and off any of the text.. will make your job easier later.

Scan your FD-258 cards in to your computer, I scan mine at 1200DPI, Document - black & white, PNG file type.

Once you get both of your FD-258 cards scanned in, open them up in your photo editor. I use Adobe Photoshop

Use the magic wand tool and select the white background, now click Select>Inverse. Press CTRL+X or click Edit>Cut to cut your selection. Press CTRL+N or click File>New.

Now paste your prints, CTRL+V or click Edit>Paste

Look to the lower right pane, it will say Layers and show Background and Layer 1. Layer 1 contains your prints and Background is just a white background. We need a transparent background so click the little lock next to Background to unlock the background. Now press Delete on your keyboard.

You should now see your fingerprints (and all the FD-258 form info) on a checkered background vs white.

Click the selection tool and make a box around just your prints, all of your prints in one large box. Now click Image>Crop

Now use your Eraser and erase the lines between your prints and any text. You want to just have your fingerprints left.. if your prints are over a line or text, you will need to zoom in, reduce the size of the Eraser tool and remove the lines.



Once you get done, download this .PDF of the FD-258 Open this PDF up in your photo editor, in Photoshop this will open with a transparent background. In Photoshop an Import PDF box will pop-up, make sure you select the Resolution to match the resolution your scanned your prints, in this case 1200DPI

Now go back to your fingerprint tab, press CTRL+A or click Select>All, then press CTRL+X or click Edit>Cut.

Go back to the FD-258 tab and press CTRL+V or click Edit>Paste.

This will place your finger prints over the FD-258 card. Click on the newly created layer and click Select>All.

Now click on the Move Tool and drag your prints down so they line up with the FD-258 card. At this point go ahead and print out a test page so see how your prints look, you may need to go back and adjust Brightness, Contrast, Levels, etc. I would recommend printing a test after each adjustment to see how it looks. Compare it to your original Ink FD-258.

Once you're happy with how your prints look you can select Layer 1 and press Delete. You should now have just your prints left in the correct location to fit on a FD-258. Now click on File, Print.

When the Print window pops up, click on Print Settings... change Paper Size to User Defined, 8.0" x 8.0", Portrait, Plain Paper and the Resolution to 1200DPI.

Load a few FD-258 cards in your printer (you can write Top and draw an arrow on a piece of paper and print off a test page to see the correct orientation) in my Brother laser printer I place the FD-258 cards face down, with the fingerprint portion of the card being pulled in first.

Now click print. You may get a pop-up stating the image is larger than the print material, just check Do not show again and click ok.

I do not have to play around with margins or any other settings, my prints come out perfectly centered on FD-258 cards every time.

If you have any questions feel free to ask, these instructions are for Adobe Photoshop but you should be able to use any other halfway decent Photo editing software. I have used GIMP before which is very similar to Photoshop, its free and it can be used on several different operating systems, including GNU/Linux.
@grn_zx6r

This was *awesome*!  Thank you for taking the time to put that together!  I was able to do this using GIMP (free) and even modify it to include all the fields on the card that are required so all I need to do is put a stack of FD-258's in my printer, load the image in GIMP and print them out.  Only thing I didn't add was my signature (yeah, I know I could).  This will save me a TON of time and effort when submitting NFA stuff - thanks!


@jtb33 glad to help!
Link Posted: 11/11/2022 1:15:00 PM EDT
[#23]
Hello

I just submitted an eform1 with the new option to upload my electronic fingerprints (EFT file)

Everything was fine but the email from the ATF says i have to print and send two FD258 within 10 days as we have to do without the electronic fingerprints upload .

I think i don't need to send them but we never know with the ATF ...
Link Posted: 8/19/2023 12:30:26 PM EDT
[#24]
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