Aside from the annual $500 fee, why aren’t most kitchen table FFLs just Type 7 FFLs and Class 2 SOTs? With the AR15 for example, it is so likely that they will be “manufacturing” by assembly that it seems like the only option.

I’m am more referring to small, kitchen table type, FFLs.

Feels like I’m missing something obvious.

Can't do it strictly for personal use

IIRC, ITAR fees.

As far as I can tell that only comes into play if you manufacture MG's or Suppressors.

07 might have zoning issues out of the house, otherwise there is no real reason to get an 01 if you can get an 07.

I have a home-based 07, was holding off on the SOT because of ITAR fees (wouldn't be worthwhile at low volume). Still a lot of unknowns there since it got switched away from the state dept.

Getting an SOT does not trigger ITAR payment in any way, shape or form (nor does getting an FFL for that matter).

Correct, unless manufacturing suppressors which I would certainly do with a SOT (have a bunch of form 1s already and a mill / lathe). I don't get the benefits of full auto being in Washington state and with low volume it just wouldn't be worthwhile for me.

I thought MGs were GTG in Washington for dealers?

Only if for sale to agencies / military, and they're not buying from home FFLs. I looked into it for the purposes of full auto rentals on a range and was told that was a certain no-go.

So then why not an SOT? Why does everybody hold back?  ITAR myth/confusion?  

Does ATF scrutinize these with any additional criteria?

I went dealer instead of the manufacturer because of the increased SOT cost and what I intended to do.  In hindsight would it be cool to be able to manufacture silencers and MG's for testing?  Totally.  But my original plans didn't really include any sales of those items, and if I were to make them, it would be VERY low volume.  Figured the extra $500/yr just wasn't worth it, because I don't have a major MG itch.  Also in hindsight, the 07 would have been a good idea for the ability to "manufacture" AR's in the sense of mating uppers/lowers and building complete rifles for people.  Not something that crossed my mind at the time.

SOT cost is same dealer or MFG, and FFL cost is less for MFG.

Very helpful. Thank you. Kinda confirms my line of thinking.

I applied for Type 7. We’ll see if I can get it through my zoning folks. Both of which were very cool when I made an initial inquiry.

Thinking I should email the City and my HOA a follow up and explain I want the Type 7 manufacturer so I can simply assemble firearms. Just about to mail my application.

Yes but none of his reasoning makes sense.

He went dealer route instead of MFG route to avoid paying $1000/SOT instead of $500/SOT?

That would imply he saw no potential profit from MFG and was planning on making over $500K in gross out the gate. and $500 was "Too much" given $500K in gross.

Correct. And the lawyer I spoke with advised ITAR is required if MFRing (according to the DDTC or whatever, not the ATFs definition) of MGs, silencers, or whatever else is in the munitions list.

The two systems never talk to each other.

But yes 07/02 as homebased gives you the flexibility to MFR (according to the ATFs definition) firearms. SOT is great to do transfers and also get silencers quickly for demo purposes on form 3.

I am not so sure suppressor manufacturers need ITAR certification.  Much has move to DOC and out of DOs and DOD

All you have to do to be sure is just check and see if they are on the US Munitions List

They are 100% on the munitions list, along with machine guns.

I believe suppressor mfg for sale does require ITAR, however you can mfg them for testing/development (no sales) and not need to pay ITAR.  However you cannot do the same with MG’s apparently.

Looked into it as I have some weird ideas on suppressor designs...

@Ozymandiaz


Also this is incorrect in a few ways:

The reason you likely were told it was not allowed for a rental range is because that is not a valid reason to make MG’s per federal law, and therefore if that is all you want to do it isn’t happening.

LE agencies are allowed to purchase from whomever gives them the best deal.  I have seen stuff bought from very small dealers at times.  They often will buy class 3 stuff from agencies as well and give more trade in value than a large company will.  So ATF can’t tell them who to do business with or not.  

WA allows MG’s for citizens if possessed legally prior to 1994.  I know a guy who has a couple of bringback AK’s somewhere, I would love to get my hands on them if he ever sells.  One of his kids is LE (maybe even federal LE) so I don’t know what happens when he dies and it needs to transfer.  Law may require it to go out of state, which is BS...but anyhow...  There are a lot of transferables in WA still to be dealt with.  

If you are manufacturing for sale to LE/Govt as fed law says then who is ATF to say where you are based?  Plenty of class 3 manufacturers are based in WA.  Just cannot sell MG’s to WA state residents.  But you certainly can sell SBR’s, Suppressors, etc.  Just no MG’s or SBS’s for the everyday buyer.    

Actually- that is a good comparison.  SBS’s are not legal for everyday ownership in WA.  But I just bought multiple SBS’s, because I think I can make a few bucks, but they all have to transfer out of the state.  Basically the same as transferable MG’s.  It isn’t like there are any MFR’s in the US able to make new MG’s for sale to US citizens- all are for LE/Govt/export.  

Plenty of FFL/SOT’s with MG’s on their books here.  I have only bought a transferable on my books so not sure if anything has changed with regards to the new WA defund the police idiocy for manufacturing, but I believe that law has put a crimp on LE buying new full auto weaponry, so demo letters are being denied for folks trying to do them.  I think the defund the police law also may require agencies to get rid of, or at least not use, full auto stuff.  Whole lot of stupidity in one law there in so many ways.  But that is all aimed at LE, not FFL’s themselves.

So I think you are still good to acquire in a method that does not require a demo letter, or if you are a MFR, then build whatever you want that your license would allow.  

Obviously ATF is probably going to be taking a hard stance on rental ranges who make MG’s, and SOT’s who go in and out of business to make more post samples available to other MFR’s, but until something changes WA isn’t much different than other states except for the demo letter situation.  

Good to know, thanks for the clarification. I had only half-assedly talked to the state / ATF about it and a couple shops that do manufacture for law enforcement and it seemed to be more hassle than it was worth for me at the time.

I'm in the process of getting a fiber laser engraving business going (bought the machine to mark serial numbers and do customizations but am having fun doing PMAGs and stuff also). The laser would make having the SOT more useful for me if only to do NFA markings for people. I know it was a PITA to get all my form 1 stuff done locally years ago!