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Posted: 1/20/2022 1:09:58 AM EDT
Why the SCAR in 5.56 (MK16) was not adopted by U.S. Special Forces to replace the M4A1.


This guy, Jeff Gurwitch, is ex-SF. This may have been posted before, but he provides straight up reasons why the SCAR 16 was not adopted in the long run. Remains to be seen how the NRCH version will do.
Link Posted: 1/20/2022 8:41:13 AM EDT
[#1]
Thanks for posting.
My biggest gripe is the reciprocating charging handle. I just switch it to the right side, like an AK, and forget about it.
It’s a good rifle, IMO, but not better than the M4.
Link Posted: 1/20/2022 6:20:52 PM EDT
[#2]
People are far over think this.  More than anything this was a budgetary decision.  Even in USSOCOM, funding is not unlimited. M4 rifles are provided to USSOCOM from their parent organization budget while the SCAR isn’t service common so USSOCOM dollars would have to be spent to buy them. Could you justify spending limited funds on a 5.56 rifle that offered little to no improvement when you got M4 rifles for free because they were service common?  Especially when you had other things to spend the money on.  

By the time the SCAR was ready, the Block II offered just as much or more to the war fighter than the SCAR did.
Link Posted: 1/21/2022 8:37:23 AM EDT
[#3]
Probably one of the most informative videos I have seen yet that provided some facts and solid reasoning behind a few of the scar 16 shortcomings. The brass in the op rod channel was a new one to me.

I was getting tired of the “Seals hate the scar” vids which provided little besides muh charging handle.
Link Posted: 1/21/2022 2:56:40 PM EDT
[#4]
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Quoted:
People are far over think this.  More than anything this was a budgetary decision.  Even in USSOCOM, funding is not unlimited. M4 rifles are provided to USSOCOM from their parent organization budget while the SCAR isn’t service common so USSOCOM dollars would have to be spent to buy them. Could you justify spending limited funds on a 5.56 rifle that offered little to no improvement when you got M4 rifles for free because they were service common?  Especially when you had other things to spend the money on.  

By the time the SCAR was ready, the Block II offered just as much or more to the war fighter than the SCAR did.
View Quote


You are correct regarding budget restrictions, but the gentleman in the video was involved in the actual testing and spent a lot of time deployed over seas on our behalf. He points out several specific things regarding the SCAR 16s (and points out the SCAR 17s did not necessarily have those issues):

1. Reciprocating charging handle would get caught on things when shooting behind barriers or obstacles. He points out it’s not the charging handle itself is the issue, its the placement of it close to the rail or where your hands/sling would lie vs an AK.

2. Weak stock latch that failed repeatedly during their tests

3. Bad magazines could easily cause double or triple feeds that could cause cases to get stuck in the receiver rendering the rifle useless. Not a fault of the rifle, but US GIs often get handed that “bad magazine”, which was a concern. The video author points out he could more easily fix a M4 than the SCAR 16s when this happened.

4. Bottom rail attached to the barrel got too hot. Remember, they were practicing with full auto fire.

Combine these issues with a poorly planned procurement process (he repeatedly points out that SOCOM operators/gun guys were not involved in the initial proposal) and improved “know how” on how to keep a M4 carbine running right, sticking with the M4 made sense in 2008-10. I’m sure FN learned some things, and could have fixed them quickly. Comes down to $$$ and desire. I still believe the SCAR is a better platform for suppressed use than the M4, so maybe the NRCH version and some further improvements could allow it to supersede the M4 in 5.56 NATO.
Link Posted: 1/21/2022 4:46:47 PM EDT
[#5]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


You are correct regarding budget restrictions, but the gentleman in the video was involved in the actual testing and spent a lot of time deployed over seas on our behalf. He points out several specific things regarding the SCAR 16s (and points out the SCAR 17s did not necessarily have those issues):

1. Reciprocating charging handle would get caught on things when shooting behind barriers or obstacles. He points out it’s not the charging handle itself is the issue, its the placement of it close to the rail or where your hands/sling would lie vs an AK.

2. Weak stock latch that failed repeatedly during their tests

3. Bad magazines could easily cause double or triple feeds that could cause cases to get stuck in the receiver rendering the rifle useless. Not a fault of the rifle, but US GIs often get handed that “bad magazine”, which was a concern. The video author points out he could more easily fix a M4 than the SCAR 16s when this happened.

4. Bottom rail attached to the barrel got too hot. Remember, they were practicing with full auto fire.

Combine these issues with a poorly planned procurement process (he repeatedly points out that SOCOM operators/gun guys were not involved in the initial proposal) and improved “know how” on how to keep a M4 carbine running right, sticking with the M4 made sense in 2008-10. I’m sure FN learned some things, and could have fixed them quickly. Comes down to $$$ and desire. I still believe the SCAR is a better platform for suppressed use than the M4, so maybe the NRCH version and some further improvements could allow it to supersede the M4 in 5.56 NATO.
View Quote



Great summary
Link Posted: 1/21/2022 8:22:25 PM EDT
[#6]
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Quoted:
My biggest gripe is the reciprocating charging handle.
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Same here, so imagine surprise to hear (from video), that was a design requirement! They designed a DOA gun.
Link Posted: 1/22/2022 3:58:32 PM EDT
[#7]
I wanted to love the SCAR, but the M4A1 was/is a better gun for the SOF cat!
Link Posted: 1/24/2022 9:14:20 PM EDT
[#8]
Great video. Former CRIF guy so he definitely knows his shit.
Link Posted: 1/25/2022 10:48:29 AM EDT
[#9]
One of the biggest problem was (which will be the biggest problem for the new NGSW program) cost:benefit ratio over widespread adoption in regular infantry use.

Very good video!
Link Posted: 3/10/2022 11:58:37 PM EDT
[#10]
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Quoted:


Same here, so imagine surprise to hear (from video), that was a design requirement! They designed a DOA gun.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
My biggest gripe is the reciprocating charging handle.


Same here, so imagine surprise to hear (from video), that was a design requirement! They designed a DOA gun.


Read that early on over on FNForum or maybe FALFiles back in the late 2000s/early 2010s.  Always seemed like a weird complaint to have after it's specifically demanded as a feature.  Like fussing over HiPowers mag releases.

The clearing malfunctions thing I can definitely see, as I've run some crap ammo through mine and malfunctions are a hassle to fix vs an AR platform.
Link Posted: 3/11/2022 1:32:11 AM EDT
[#11]
Shooting alot of “tactical stages” myself, as in barricades, movement etc. the reciprocating charging handle is an issue. I’ve used it on both sides. I’m a right handed shooter. When I have it AK style, the only malfunction I’ve ever induced on the gun is on barricades.

When shooting with charging handle on left side of gun (opposite of AK) the sling has gotten in the way. Not often but it has.

True the bottom rail does get hot (fast strings of semi auto)

The scar is absolutely the BEST suppressed weapon I have ever shot. Reliable, easy to shoot and clean etc. I have yet to shoot a single AR thst is a better suppressor host than the scar.

Even with the downfall of the reciprocating charging handle I love my scar. I prefer it over the AR. Of course thst is personal preference.
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