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6/25/2018 7:04:05 PM
Posted: 6/4/2018 3:30:01 PM EDT
When looking at non restricted, civilian lasers, why do so many people go for the A3 over the D2? The D2 illuminator is far superior yet I rarely see guys with the D2 but they're rocking the A3. Is it just because of the size?
Link Posted: 6/4/2018 3:58:32 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/4/2018 9:12:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/4/2018 10:18:40 PM EDT by MrPlayer]
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Originally Posted By TNVC_Augee:

The main advantage of the A3 is the laser-based illuminator which has less downrange visible signature than the LED-based illuminator on the D2, which is especially important in a “tactical” environment (hunting isn’t really my balliwick, but I understand some animals may spook due to visible signature as well).

Beyond that, the D2 is not only larger and heavier, but IMHO, the “FIRE” button location is ergonomically inferior and less ambidextrous than the DBAL-A3, though I think the ATPIAL is superior to both.

~Augee
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Do you even own a D2?

Edit.
Because......I kid, I kid.
Link Posted: 6/4/2018 9:31:05 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/4/2018 10:06:37 PM EDT by TNVC]
Link Posted: 6/4/2018 10:17:15 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/4/2018 10:30:39 PM EDT by MrPlayer]
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Originally Posted By TNVC:

Lol...Nice Plant...I'm the one you're after Mr. "Player". Why don't you get your PenPal in here to show his Mohawk again you said you didn't own but then all of a sudden later in the other thread you show up with a pic that is somehow in your possession.

Just a "little fun" as you always say.
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Like I said. I don’t own one. But I am familiar. Like I see it at least once a week, and he’s happy with his. And he’s not the one you refer to as a “pen pal” But as stated previously my opinion is based on actual experience.
Yes, it was a little fun at Augee. I’m sure he won’t mind. :D I knew whom i was quoting.
I’m light hearted in most things I do, including posting here on ARF. Honestly Vic, I get the feeling you comments are more mean spirited. But feel free to correct me if I’m wrong. It’s funny that my past dealings with you as a customer don’t earn me any credit with you anymore.
The “Player” part of my screen name is a play on words that anyone who actually knows me understands. It’s not that hard to decipher.

Edit: Oh! The A3 laser I own I bought from TNVC.
2nd Edit: I just remembered that the D2 I used to own I also bought from TNVC.
Link Posted: 7/3/2018 5:33:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/3/2018 5:34:12 PM EDT by fivefivesixphoto]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By TNVC_Augee:

The main advantage of the A3 is the laser-based illuminator which has less downrange visible signature than the LED-based illuminator on the D2, which is especially important in a “tactical” environment (hunting isn’t really my balliwick, but I understand some animals may spook due to visible signature as well).

Beyond that, the D2 is not only larger and heavier, but IMHO, the “FIRE” button location is ergonomically inferior and less ambidextrous than the DBAL-A3, though I think the ATPIAL is superior to both.

~Augee
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It sounds like you might be referring to restricted lasers though? From my (very limited) experience with the ATPIAL-C I found the illuminator to be basically worthless outside of, say, 75 yards ish, maybe 100 depending on ambient lighting conditions. The A3 was only a little better, I think because of the ability to focus it. The D2 definitely doesn't spook animals, a few friends and I have slayed many hogs and coyotes with the D2 and they never saw us comin'. I totally understand the visible signature thing for guys that have to deal with rounds coming their way. As far as being ambi, I completely agree, the D2 really is not unless your using the tape switch. It just seems to me, for civilians, the D2 is a far better system. I think a lot of guys don't get the D2 because its not "cool." Obviously this is all my opinion, you're a far better reference than I will ever be in regards to anything night vision related. I guess for pewing steel inside of 75-100 yards at the range or doing CQB work, any of the civi systems will be fine.
Link Posted: 7/3/2018 11:56:43 PM EDT
It all depends on what your using it for. As others have stated the A3 illuminator is very anemic compared to the D2, 75 yards vs 550 yards +. For CQB, trying to have the lowest signature possible, or under near dark conditions the A3 great, but IMHO you'd be better off by buying a I2 9007 and saving hundreds of dollars over the A3. The main difference between the 2 is a visable slaved laser size and weight. I own a D2, 9007 and a OTAL-C IR. I supplement the 9007 IR illuminator with a Surefire M622V which extends my IR light range to @ 125-150 yards. If I find myself in a CQB situation I can easily switch the M622V to it's 350 lumen white light with a twist of the head.
Link Posted: 7/10/2018 4:08:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/10/2018 4:09:32 PM EDT by TNVC_Augee]
Link Posted: 7/10/2018 4:26:40 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By TNVC_Augee:

What it gets down to at the end of the day is that IR aiming lasers, while they can (and I have) be used out to longer distances, where they really shine (pardon the pun), and are most effective for fast-moving engagements at short to intermediate ranges.

The honest fact is that for most civilian/LE use from a "tactical" perspective, at least, engagements outside the practical ranges of Class I laser-based LAMs is really pushing the reasonable PID range of an unmagnified NOD as well, as such my emphasis is always going to be performance within that envelope.

Hunting applications, I recognize can play by slightly different "rules," and the D2 was, to a certain extent designed more specifically for that kind of application in response to the needs of the a different market than the ATPIAL-C and DBAL-A3/I2-SS. The DBAL-D2 is generally larger, heavier, and less ambidextrous, which is fine for what is essentially a hunting "optic," while the others were designed more specifically with military use and applications in mind, and the C1 variants are simply somewhat... "downgraded" to meet C1 power restrictions.

~Augee
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So what you’re saying is that even though the Civi PEQ15 and A3 fall flat on their face at 75ish yards, it’s not that big of a deal because you’re not going to get PID under non magnified night vision away? Is that correct? What distances can PID be established under NODs anyway?
Link Posted: 7/10/2018 5:58:36 PM EDT
Link Posted: 7/10/2018 6:22:27 PM EDT
@TNVC_Augee, right on, thanks for all your input man. I really appreciate it. I’m mostly just trying to decide if an A3 or Peq 15 civi models would suit my needs for range use. The D2 is great for hunting, but like you said, it’s Big, less ambextrious and a bit more pricey. I have very limited time behind the A3 and no time behind the PEQ. The A3 seemed very inadequate but that may have been solely based on the situation I used it in.
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