Midway is willing these:

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Which are pretty clearly the Federal 130 gr HST Micro .38 Special +P bullets

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I just put a couple hundred on order, as the HST Micro load is what I carry in my shirt barrel .357, but the factory loads are very expensive.  I’m going to try to duplicate the factory load in a +P load.

Since there are no load recipes for a .38 130 gr HP Wadcutter out there (at least none I’ve found) I was curious if anyone in this forum was loading these bullets, and what load was used?  

Or recommendations for a starting load?

Mine should be here today. I am going to attempt a couple different recipes.

Another person I know couldn't load them to the cannelure in one particular 38SPL and was forced to load them deep like the factory load.

At this point the brass was bulged enough that they wouldn't load in the cylinder, so a run through a Lee FCD became necessary and solved the problem.

I would imagine that a person needs to keep a very close eye on velocity when loading them deep. Based on several reviews of the factory ammo out there, I would make a point to keep them below 850 FPS from a 2" 38SPL +P rated revolver. If you are approaching 900 you are likely way over regular +P pressures. At 900 you are probably approaching the old Winchester +P+ LE pressures.

My tentative plan is to take a few from my very small factory stash of HST Micro and shoot them over a chrono from my 2.75” .357.  That will be my MV baseline for loads out of that gun.  

Maybe start with minimum load for 125 gr .38+P and shoot over a chrono to get an idea where the loading lies as far as pressure?

@dryflash3

You ne ruined you ordered some of these in another thread.  Any idea how you plan to load them?

Interesting bullet. Wonder how they do in Mag brass with a little more boom!

And how do you crimp?

I don’t think this bullet would perform well at .357 velocities.  The design actually shows significant expansion at .38+P velocities from a snub barrel.  I think it might simply come apart at .357 velocities.  Now, loaded to .38+P velocities in a .357 case would be fine.

Yeah, that was my thought too. If you load them that deep, I am not sure I would put Mag level powder in them anyway. Guessing pressure would be a bit high. I prefer to run Mag cases in my S&W carry gun but I reduce the load.

What is length from cannelure to tip?

Delta in special to Mag case length is 0.14ish

If about that, it would likely be safe to seat them deep in 357 case and use special load data. Again, how do you crimp though? Crimping at case mouth doesn’t make sense if you seat deep.

Is diameter at tip wide enough on these? Seems like they are a shy narrow above cannelure. Been debating buying some but wanted plan first.

I will say up front that I don’t know anything about this die but my thoughts are it’s used specifically for heeled bullets in 38 colt. SO, why can’t it be used to put a crimp in the middle of a 38 Special (or Mag) case:

https://oldwestbulletmoulds.com/shop/ols/products/38-long-and-short-colt-heel-bullet-crimp-die

Just wanted to see if I could mimic how Federal would do it. Guessing they put the crimp there for a reason.

I was actually just doing research on 38 colt and came across the die.

I wish I had bought a box of the factory ammo to do a teardown inspection.

Any of you fine people have access to a box of the factory load?

ETA - Found a cut away photo that doesn't say much. I wonder how much volume the powder actually takes up.

https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/new-federal-hst-130-grain-38-special-p/

ETA 2 - Also found an archived thread on the factory load with more reference data. He did a tear down but doesn't mention the powder...

https://www.ar15.com/forums/handguns/Federal-38-spl-P-130gr-HST-in-Clear-Ballistics-gel-/20-179492/

ETA 3 - Ok... Powder is obviously somewhat dense, is fast enough to produce decent velocity, and is flash suppressed. BE-86 or similar?

Good info. Thx for posting.
I went ahead and ordered a box of ammo from Bass Pro:
https://www.basspro.com/shop/en/federal-premium-personal-defense-hst-handgun-ammunition

Only place I saw it in stock. Going to see how they crimp. Not sure I trust the “cutaway” as it looks like a digital recreation.

It appears to just be a heavy roll crimp at the front.

If I were to guess, I’d say that the cannelure is only present to lock the core to the jacket. The performance tests seem to clearly show that the bullet isn’t bonded... And why would it really need to be at the intended velocities?

It’s much cheaper to make them that way and they probably didn’t even have to make a new tool for it.

Want to see something funny? Look closely at the photos in the OP. Midway stole their picture from Lucky Gunner. Lazy @sses.

I took the second f picture from Lucky Gunner  It was the quickest picture I could find that showed a picture of the factory load with projectile outside the case.

I bought some of these bullets, and intend to load them using wadcutter data from my Lyman book. I am going to load them like Federal loads their HST ammo. I would agree that the cannalure is likely used to hold the core, but I have read or elsewhere that people crimp at the cannalure,  and have success at 38 special velocities.

Anybody load this yet? Based on 140gr jhp data I'd planned on loading it with accurate #2 4.2-4.7gr with a col~ 1.5.

How far has anyone shot them?

I'm an old guy.  One of those who loaded 148 grain HBWC backwards in .38 special cases back in the early 80's.

The darn things tumbled bad out past 15 or 20 yds.  

That would still make a nasty hole, hitting sideways/yawing before impact, but they still tumbled.  I gave it up after a few boxes with different powders/powder charge weight experiments.

There's a reason they put all the weight up front in the HBWC and the shotgun slugs.

i CCW this in its factory federal hst ammo

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My ammo order came Monday but still waiting on Midway’s order of bullets.

I bought an RCBS Green Machine one late night on Ebay. It was late and I had had a drink or three. Been sitting in the box for months. Maybe I will see if that works on these just for fun.

Same here.  I haven’t had a chance to do any loading with these projectiles as I have several other reloading projects I’m wrapping up.  

But I plan to work on these before the end of the summer, and hopefully I can duplicate the factory “wadcutter” profile and velocity.

The factory load is sold as .38 +P

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yes
youtube videos show good expansion, even from snubbies

mr gunsngear did one

I finally loaded up 15 rounds, and might be able to test them this Friday. I went with a COAL of 1.21, which has the bullet just proud of the case. I use AA  data for Silhoutte which is probably  too slow for a snub nose, but should be ok for a test. I used data for the 148 WCDBB.

if you can get a green machine to work .....I wish to raise my glass to you sir!

I eager to load some of these.

I take it you're going +p with that oal? 148gr data cause of bullet length?

Updated 07/26/20, added a few more chronograph numbers from different powders from today’s range session.

I have been loading and testing this bullet for the last couple weeks. Keep in mind, with no load data out there, if you do decide to run them deep (almost flush) like the factory HST’s, keep in mind that makes for a lot of bearing surface and reduced case capacity all causing pressure to go up compared to when seating mid cannelure. I advise starting lower than you normally would and working your way up. For me this is were I’m at in the load development.

First I tore down a factory 130 grain HST round, for anyone wondering the rounds I pulled from the factory ammo had a powder charge of 5.3 grains. The factory rounds are seated to 1.168 COAL. Also for what it’s worth the cannelure on the pulled factory HST bullet is in a slightly different spot compared to the bullets I received from Midway. This MIGHT be why they are labeled as seconds. The factory charge of 5.3 grains appears to be about 100 percent case capacity, the top of the powder charge is pretty close to flush with the bottom of the bullet, not compressed, but appeared about 100 percent case capacity with the Factory powder that Federal uses.

In my testing so far I have only tested in a 4” revolver and here has been my results.

When seated mid Cannelure, With a COAL of 1.440, 1/3 turn Lee factory crimp die for crimp, Using CCI 500 primers in Starline brass, In my 4” revolver here are some numbers I chronographed. Hopefully this will help someone get an idea. Be advised I worked up to all these loads. I personally had no pressure signs with the loads listed below, no sticky extraction, no flat primers, but as always, start low and work up.

6.4 grains of Power Pistol: 926 FPS, SD 16.2
6.2 grains CFE: 848 FPS, SD 19
4.5 grains of Titegroup: 773 FPS, SD 10.4
5.5 grains of unique: 842 FPS, SD 21.8


And here is a few readings with the same set up as above, but seated to factory length 1.168 COAL, Which is almost flush like a wad cutter.

Factory Rounds, 130 grain HST: 779 FPS, SD 10 (tested this two times on different range trips and both times were almost identical)
4.0 grains of Titegroup: 875 FPS, SD 12.9
4.0 grains of Bullseye: 822 FPS, SD 15.8 (Maybe slight sticky extraction, no issues though. Probably the max charge I would want to go with Bullseye)
5.0 grains of Power Pistol: 839 FPS, SD 21.2
5.3 grains of Power Pistol: 927 FPS, SD 25.2 (This PP load seems upper limit, had pressure signs when testing with federal primers, but not with CCI’s.)
5.0 grains of CFE Pistol: 908 FPS, SD 18.9
5.3 grains of CFE Pistol: 950 FPS, SD 15.2
5.0 grains of Silhouette: 776 FPS, SD 27.7
5.3 grains of Silhouette: 866 FPS, SD 28.9
4.7 grains of Unique: 881 FPS, SD 17.2


I Haven’t settled on a load yet, but if running factory COAL of 1.168 I really like 5.0-5.1 grains of CFE pistol. With that said most all loads I listed have been accurate for me, shooting to POA/POI, Punching nice clean holes. The beauty of this bullet is it’s ability to expend well even down to lower velocities (mid 750’s and up in my experience) the performance in water jugs has been great. But I haven’t pushed it yet and tested it in .357 magnum to see how fast I can push it before it breaks apart. The hollow point cavity is huge, so I’m guessing a week/mild .357 load for this bullet would be a good choice, we shall see.

@ARHutch

Great information!   Thanks for sharing.

What is the bullet diameter forward of the cannelure?

I am assuming it isnt .357/358.  Usually they run a couple thou smaller, but I have yet to touch this bullet.

Actually, pretty much the entire bullet (with the exception of the very tip) runs .357, Lots of bearing surface on this bullet.

Very good post. Thank you. I loaded up some  rounds flush (I think it was around 1.2) with Ramshot Silhouette,  4.5 gr, and it shot surprisingly well. I didnt run it through a chrono, but I would guess it was under 800 fps, out of a 2 inch snubnose  revolver. I am going to bump it up a little.

Good to hear, I will be testing Ramshot silhouette Next. Just ordered another 500. I love this bullet, for the price it’s a great shooter with great performance. Accurate, cheap and reliably expands at Lower velocities, which can be hard to accomplish in that 750-800 ft./s range that Snub nose .38’s generally Produce.

I shot IMR Red 3.8 gr and 4.1 gr  oal I.200 with a mild crimp

At 10 yards from a rest they shot 1 inch or so with a smith 27

A smith 642 was larger all cases extracted easily.  

One note a PMC case got mixed with my Starline the PMC bulged as is was thicker and would not seat in the case guage. Starline was fine.
I bought 1K and are happy with the Groups

Interesting Dryflash, I find mine are pretty consistent in that 356.5-357 diameter range. Other than an occasional reading, Not many of mine measured .355, My pulled factory bullets measured about exact with the midway seconds. I assumed the “seconds” was the cannelure is slightly lower compared to the factory pulled bullets, that’s about the only difference I could find. But I’m sure it could be other things as well.

Definitely Hard to tell, could be anything. My diameter is pretty consistent with the factory bullets. Here is a couple pictures from the factory rounds Versus the ones for sale at Midway.

Pulled charge from factory round.


Factory round, showing COAL.


And difference in cannelure position I was talking about. Factory round on the left and Midway round on the right.

Because these are .357 has anyone thought of loading them in 9x19 ??

With the large metplat they would have trouble feeding in some 9mms,

My 59 series Smiths will feed empy cases.  I think they would expand and 800 to 1000 fps could be archived  wit acceptable Pressures,  thoughts?

I agree with Dryflash, it could be worth a try in 9mm. A bullet that would expand easily at even modest 9mm velocities is attractive. Most of mine mic out at 356.5-357, but even still you could try it. Just with the long bearing surface and how deep you may have to seat this bullet in a tiny 9mm case so that it feeds reliably may make for some crazy pressure. Would definitely just be cautious. But I like the idea.

I’m gonna try a few more powders in .38 special, then move on to see how fast I can push them in .357 magnum before they fall apart. I’m thinking a nice low powered .357 magnum load would make a great carry round in a light weight revolver like my lcr.

Brass is prepped and I loaded a dummy.  Now to decide on a powder.

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But the round has to be super reliable too (definition of defensive ammo). I am reluctant to trust these bullets in semi.