Are there any real factory (not conversions) out there ? I have a nice conversion but am always looking for more collectible. (Its a disease and if you dont have it you wont understand it).
If so is one manufacturer more desirable than another ?

To me, the most collectible Uzi is the Micro... there aren't many transferable Micros out there, either. Just the few pistols that were registered in 84, 85, and early 86.

For what's out there, you might do well to ask over on the Uzi Talk forums, as that's where the best concentration of knowledge on this topic is for sure!

Yes, the Uzi has been around since before GCA68, so there are real, factory transferrables in this country and on the registry, along with some amnesty registrations here or there. Most of the factory RR crop are pre-86 samples, though, or the Group Industries domestic pre-86 transferrables as mostly finished out by Vector.

Some of the Vector guns were done as mini-Uzis; those are transferrable and rarer than the more common full size Uzis of any stripe.

I would further add, Sir Osprey, that any foreign transferrable is now a de-facto C&R, since 50 years have now passed sinced 1968.

Great info so far thanks all.
So IMI is "the original" I take it ?
Do you know if Action Arms had  a "factory" gun imported  ?
Mine is an Action arms conversion by Flemming.

The Action Arms branch of Action Manufacturing wasn't around before 1968, and the 68 GCA banned NFA imports from being transferable. There shouldn't be any transferable AA factory imports, which were imported as MGs... only those registered before the 86 cutoff as factory imported semi-autos, but converted after the fact.

I'm a (former) SOT. My pre-86 sample is a full-sized IMI factory Uzi imported by Action Arms.

Model is "SMG"

Two of the C&R IMI Uzis are up for sale at the Morphy Auction starting tomorrow:

http://auctions.morphyauctions.com/catalog.aspx?auctionid=324

Happy bidding and good luck!

I’ve got an original IMI full size in ATF jail right now. It wasn’t cheap.

Yes I saw those and thus the topic.
Based on what I have researched recently and with help here there may be legality problems.
I've emailed Morphy's to ask if there is, will my money be refunded if the guns are confiscated down the road.
Waiting for a response in the morning.
Its down to the wire.

Are there any worthwhile transferable  MG's that are not cheap ;)

Looking back I should have applied for an SOT license.

Hindsight always 20/20.

As already posted, Morphy Auctions has two pre-68 transferable UZIs in their current auction. The pre-68 transferable Uzi is without question is the most desirable collectible Uzi. If talking about semis converted pre-86 to fullauto and Group Industries (or Vector) guns.....fullauto vs mini vs micro is a matter of opinion. The micro is for the niche collector and is dangerous as a shooter in the wrong hands. Minis always bothered me because bolt guns lack the proper sear engagement bolt “feet” that extend forward of the bolt and thus the bolt sits further forward in the cocked position. Means you can’t insert a mag on an open bolt, as the bolt is forward of the rear lip of the cartridge in the magazine and won’t strip/feed/fire the round. The Vector RR mini was cut down from a full-size and lacks the proper rear ribs. Hence, I don’t own a mini.

I used to be moderator over at UZItalk and wrote most of the full auto conversion library over there and most of those pictures were ones I took.
In regards to what is more collectible, I used to have a transferrable Micro UZI that was a RR Wilson conversion that I sold.  I had it all factory correct minus the bayo lug put on there.  It was a beast to shoot and always worried about who I let shoot it.  I think the receiver was kinda flimsy as well.  The metal is a thinner gauge than the Mini or full size.
I have Fleming sear Mini UZI which I think is the most rare.
The factory full auto pre may Mini's were imported for LE/Mil pre86 (I think in 1984) but the semi's didn't come into the country till '87.  
Fleming registered some regular UZI SMG sears before 86 and then busted the blocking bar out of the full size UZI's after '86 and also properly relieved the trunion's on the semi Mini's.  So these Mini's are as close as you can get to full auto factory IMI Mini and are NOT re-welded like the Vector's.  
ATF caught up with Fleming in '88 and had him stop this practice but grandfathered those he already did and those sears are married to the receivers.

Below is a picture of my Micro setup I had...I had the factory Micro iron sites (in new wax paper that I never installed) that I sold seperately for I think $400.

Amphibian. I’m looking at transferable UZIs as well and think I want a RR conversion over a vector. Looking at a ciener IMI UZI RR conversion. Can you tell me anything about his conversions? This one has restrictor ring on place but no blocking bar. Are there any conversion I should be looking out for? I keep hearing vector horror stories over on Uzi talk so not looking at them right now.

Did you get it from Bernie by any chance?

Grail gun... closest I'm ever going to get is a SBR clone, probably.

I've never been crazy about the Vector guns and have seen too many fail in the back from failed welds and trunions breaking loose.  I know some say that it happens on IMI as well but I think those are extremely rare.

I know a guy that has a Ciener IMI RR conversion and the only thing I didn't like was the ugly markings Ciener put on the receiver but it runs fine.

Billistics has always been considered the best and most complete but I would be careful about that since I personally was about to buy one and the conversion was awful.  Turns out it was one of the guns that was seized and although it was registered by them it was completed by someone else.

I've had several Fleming conversions and they have all been great.  Fleming did basic and 'deluxe' conversions.  In both cases he removed the blocking bar.  I know the deluxe he had remarked the receivers to say SMG UZI or UZI SMG can't recall which.  I can't remember what else the deluxe had...probably need to go back and re-read my own articles.

Neal Smith conversions also had the bar removed.

I've had my full size UZI's brought up to full SMG spec but a friend of mine told me about a case that makes me think I shouldn't have.  One guy had a semi spec trunion and had an issue where a squib was in the barrel and then another round fired after it and bulged the barrel and swelled the trunion.  Since it was still semi spec, they bored it out to SMG spec giving that trunion another life and not have to resort to rewelding another trunion in there.  Green Mountain sells short semi spec barrels that are chrome lined so consider that as well.

With the restrictor ring, it has been said that Uziel Gal himself really liked that for more rigidity.  I had mine milled off for more compatibility.  I used to have a Fleming UZI where the ring was still in there but the top of it was relieved so unmodified SMG bolts would drop right in...I think I took pictures of that on UZItalk.

Holy Poop, Batman!

One of those is up to $42,500! The other is a steal at only $22,500.

I think I’ll stick with my Group gun that cost less than $7k a decade ago.

Are there any USSS UZIs with documentation? I've seen guys claiming to have them, but I've never seen one documented. I guess FOIA results from ATF would be good enough.

If there were, they would all most likely be either pre-may, or post-may samples......and the chances of them being surplused to any place but Quantico or a smelter are highly unlikely......

Kind of like when the FBI decided to get rid of their Thompsons.......aside from a few left for "show and tell" in a few field offices they were all destroyed.......even sledge-hammered the drums and Swetnam Hard Cases.....

FWIW, at the Morphy auction yesterday, with an 18% buyer premium, the two IMI C&R Uzis went for $50,150 and $26,550, respectively.  I've no idea why there was the difference in prices.

What does one look for in a registered bolt?

Any particular brand to stay away from?

I know some bolts are tied to slotted receivers and those are a no go.

Just looking for info.

Most registered bolts are made by B&G, and a few by SWD( I believe). They will have the blocking bar left in the receiver, and are generally GTG unless you're interested in caliber conversions.....then you are SOL.

LaFrance made some "conversion kits" that consisted of a modified lower and bolt......they seem to be fine as well.

Like you said, you want to avoid a "registered receiver" conversion where the blocking bar was left intact and a slotted bolt was essentially "married" to that receiver. Removal of the blocking bar at this point would constitute manufacture of a new Post-86 MG.

Uzitalk has lots more detail if you want to do the research before dropping 10K

Thanks for the info. I need to do some more research on them.

I have considered a UZI for a second MG but currently a Sten is on top of the list.

From what I've read, B&G made and registered 950 Uzi FA bolts.  Which is roughly 10% of all transferable Uzis.

MHO, YMMV. etc.

I can confirm that SWD did some registered bolts, as I have one.

Vector put over 3000 Uzi’s into the system but I guess you just hear about the bad ones. I think a big part of the problem may be the fact that so many of these guns were bought by speculators. They were put away as an investment, to be sold at a premium as a NIB gun long after Vector ran out. Here we are, almost 20 years later and they’re still dribbling out into the market, never having been shot and certainly never having had even the known problems addressed. Every time one of these time capsule guns shows up with a problem we get to rehash all of the issues. It just never ends. People seem to think a new in box gun is always better and that’s simply not the case.

While most of the guns Vector sold were fine, some clearly were not. The problems with these guns were identified and well known even at the time. Vector would fix them at no cost to the owner. I bought my full size SMG when Vector was still selling them and mine showed up with the trunnion issue. A call to Vector and off it went via Fed Ex. It was back in my hands inside of two weeks with the trunnion re-welded and a semi feed ramp installed. That was July of 2002. I have no idea how many thousands of rounds I’ve put through the gun in the ensuing years but I can tell you exactly how many problems I’ve had with it since then. Zero. Not one. It sucked having to send a new gun in for repair but the gun I got back was fixed and fixed right. Nothing has broken so far but the various parts I’ve tried from the parts kits I own have all fit without issue, so if something’s “out of spec” I’m not sure how you’d even tell.

I doubt mine’s the only one. The problem guns that came out of Vector that were/are owned by shooters have had these issues addressed long since and are every bit the equal of a converted IMI gun. Depending on how the IMI gun was converted and who did it, maybe a good deal better. It just doesn’t get any better than full SMG spec and it doesn’t get any better than perfectly reliable. Of course, there will always be people who want an Israeli Uzi just like there are folks who want a Russian AK or an Italian Beretta. I don’t think anyone is going to be able to do anything about that.

Agreed. I have two Vector FS UZI SMGs. One has 10k through it easily. The other prob only 3k. Neither have had any issues whatsoever.

I have also seen a Frankford Arsenal registered bolt.

I have had a Vector Full Size Uzi as well since 2003 (so 15 years at this point) and have had zero problems with it.

Yep, my two transferred to me in 03. F4 sent in 02, took over a year. Hard to believe it’s been 15 years since I bought my UZIs and M16. Still feels like yesterday.

I did. Bernie is a great guy.

The above is a response to Makarov’s question which I failed to quote. Mea Culpa.

One of my regret was not buying a matching Mini as well.   I guess at the time $2500 in early 2000s dollars for somebody in their mid 20s was a decent chunk of coin and the Minis I think were $500ish more.

My Vector was my 3rd machinegun after my M11 and M16.

It seems crazy that I bought my first machinegun close to 20 years ago at this point as I still remember taking the M11 to range for the first time  like it was yesterday as well.

Man I agree on all points. I was in my early 20s when I started buying. I passed on so so many transferable MGs that I should have just figured out how to fund.

It ended up selling for $52K !

WOW!
What an auction-collection.

Out of curiosity what was wrong with your vector trunion? You mean weak welds?

I owned 2 Groups built by Vector. 1 I sold a few years ago and I still have the other. Vector used to make dealers deals like buy 20 new Uzis and get a Mini or full sized free. I remember walking into a store in around 04 and seeing a stack of Vector boxes sitting in the owners office in the corner in the floor.

I had to send mine back in because the trunion welds broke, but I was shooting a lot of 45ACP through it at the time. Vector fixed it for free, never had another problem with it.

My trunnion was welded in crooked and the gun wouldn't feed worth a darn.

The 50K gun was was a true C+R factory gun.
The other was a conversion. NOT a C+R. Still legal.
Morphy's might get into trouble with the buyer of that one as misrepresented.

Minnesota for example only allows C+R machine-guns.
I have a real McCoy factory MAC 10 in C+R.  Just wished it was an UZI ;)