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Posted: 3/13/2021 10:29:38 PM EDT
Don’t have any real knowledge of lever guns so looking for experienced recommendations . My primary Doctor and friend of the last 17-years is retiring in a few months and I want to get him a nice lever action as a gift. I understand he will be going back home to the plains of South Dakota to manage his family property. Apparently it’s been in the family for years. I’m actually just guessing he would have some appreciation and use for such a tool. Not even sure he’s into guns but even if he’s not it will make a great mantle piece (I’m thinking Henry Big Boy brass).

Now the practical question - what caliber is most versatile / useful / accessible ammo / etc....?
I looked at 45-70 ammo and good stuff is near $3/round. ?? Maybe I’m wrong, but I don’t think he’ll be hunting Buffalo either...

Suggestions please...
Link Posted: 3/13/2021 10:38:44 PM EDT
[#1]
I'm no lever gun expert, but as I see it, you've got 3 general categories, and you've gotta figure out which one you want to be in.

Pistol caliber - Your 357 or 44 Mag guns. These can really be quite powerful in a rifle barrel.

Small Rifle Caliber - think 30-30.

Big Boy Rifles - Think 45-70.

Once you make that choice, you'll get better advice.
Link Posted: 3/13/2021 11:09:28 PM EDT
[#2]
Get on gun broker or similar sites and find Browning remake of the 1895 Winchester in 30-06 or 30-40 Krag.  You want 1980 type vintage as they are a direct copy of the originals and do not have disastrous tang safeties and rebounding hammers.  You should get one new old stock with box and papers for around a thousand.

The 95 is native to the Dakotahs and either cartridge will deal with any game found there.
Link Posted: 3/13/2021 11:13:51 PM EDT
[#3]
44mag would be my choice.
Link Posted: 3/14/2021 12:22:23 AM EDT
[#4]
Many options.

I think if I was going to buy a lever gun for someone who may not be into shooting but might like a "classic" firearm like a lever gun, I'd get one in 45 long colt. It's one of the more classic rounds that is still relatively common. Of course, I don't think lever guns were originally chambered in 45lc (or just 45 Colt originally) but probably not a concern unless someone is really into classic guns. I don't own a 45lc so never paid much attention to ammo, but I think it's a bit more expensive than other options and not usually a lot of options. 44-40 would be another choice and more period correct if that's of any concern.

The cheapest and most common, other than 22lr, lever gun caliber is probably .357. This will be easy to shoot out of a rifle and wouldn't be as likely to turn off a novice as some of the other choices.

44 mag has more power than the .357 but it's also more expensive and not quite as easy to find on shelves but most stores will still carry a few options. Recoil will be a bit more.

30-30 is another "classic" caliber. More power and a good starting point for a hunting rifle. Whether or not you could use a .357 or 44 to hunt will depend on state regulations, but 30-30 likely wouldn't be an issue. More recoil too and not many ammo options. Common enough that you'll find it in most stores but you usually have a choice of 150 or 170 grain.

45-70 is going to be on the upper end of the power spectrum for a lever gun. Lower power "trapdoor" loads are pretty mild to shoot but modern rifle loads can be pretty stout. My 45-70 is probably my favorite gun to shoot and also has a lot of history.

All that said, unless you know more about the guy and what he would do with it, what other guns/calibers he shoots, etc. just get a .357. It's probably the most versatile, affordable, option. Or a 22lr if it doesn't have to be a centerfire caliber.
Link Posted: 3/14/2021 12:45:20 AM EDT
[#5]
I would suggest the all weather Henry in either 44 mag or 45-70. They have a better feel than the brass version and put up with more abuse.   As you noticed 45-70 is quite expensive when it can be found,  44 mag is less expensive and more available. I also suggest you locate it, place a hold on it, give him a gift card in the amount or take him to the store and you pay for it  at that store but let him fill out the paperwork and do the background check.
If there are bears there 45-70 is a solid choice.
As mentioned above 22 and 22 mag could also be a possible.

https://www.henryusa.com/rifles/big-boy-all-weather-side-gate/
Link Posted: 3/14/2021 1:05:57 AM EDT
[#6]
I have 357 Rossi, 30/30 Winchester and 35Rem Marlin. The 35 is my favorite but is a booger to find ammo for. The next will be 45Colt
Link Posted: 3/14/2021 10:32:44 AM EDT
[#7]
I don’t know how old your friend is but I don’t think I would get a .45-70 for him due to recoil sensitivity with age. I would lean towards the .30-30 or one of the pistol cartridges, probably the .357 caliber. Of course you can also look at the Henry .22LR which are very nice.
Link Posted: 3/14/2021 11:04:16 AM EDT
[#8]
Quoted:
I'm no lever gun expert, but as I see it, you've got 3 general categories, and you've gotta figure out which one you want to be in.

Pistol caliber - Your 357 or 44 Mag guns. These can really be quite powerful in a rifle barrel.

Small Rifle Caliber - think 30-30.

Big Boy Rifles - Think 45-70.

Once you make that choice, you'll get better advice.
View Quote

Quoted:
I don't know how old your friend is but I don't think I would get a .45-70 for him due to recoil sensitivity with age. I would lean towards the .30-30 or one of the pistol cartridges, probably the .357 caliber. Of course you can also look at the Henry .22LR which are very nice.
View Quote
Some solid advice here.  If the guy is retiring, he's a bit up there in age.  Depending on how much shooting he's ever done, .45-70 might be a bit of overkill.

For the Dakotas, the 1895 mechanism might get some significant longer range, but be difficult to mount a scope (again, how are his eyes?).  The Henry long ranger accomplishes range and ease of scope mounting, but loses that "traditional" look.  

A .30-30 would be a traditional farm rifle with a little bit of range, probably to the limit of OP's friend's eyes.  But a bit more oomph behind it might limit some shooting sessions.

A .44 mag might have some oomph and still be some fun shooting.  A Henry all weather might work for a functional working gun, or a SS Marlin.  Many of the new Henry's are coming out with a side gate, which is way easier and more intuitive loading.  A side gate all weather might fit the Bill. Also I don't know if the regular brass Big Boys on .44 are coming out with side gates yet.
Link Posted: 3/14/2021 2:26:11 PM EDT
[#9]
.45 Colt is the best option.  He can run super light loads all the way up to heavy loads for bear protection.  I also like the .44 magnum but I find that the .45 Colt is a little more versatile without having to change to a lighter cartridge.  


I don't know what kind of shape your friend is in but keep in mind that Big Boy has the octagonal barrel.  The brass frame and octagonal barrel make for a beautiful rifle but they are quite barrel heavy.   I'd consider one of the models with a round barrel.

As far as Henry goes, they are fantastic rifles with even better customer service.  The actions on our two Big Boy's are butter smooth and they are both very accurate rifles.  That said, I will likely buy a Henry All Weather side gate model to be my main lever gun just because it's far better at handling the outdoor environment and it's much lighter.

Any way you go, a Henry is a great choice!
Link Posted: 3/19/2021 5:52:18 PM EDT
[#10]
If he doesn’t reload: 357.

45-70 can be toned down but again he would have to reload. 45 Colt is purposely loaded to weak single action Colt power.

Watch this vid on Lucky Gunner. If you’re thinking about 44 mag.

I have 4 lever guns. 357 is the jack of all trades. Can shoot it all day, no sore shoulder nor wallet.

.357 Magnum vs .44 Magnum Lever Actions
Link Posted: 3/19/2021 9:14:43 PM EDT
[#11]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
45 Colt is purposely loaded to weak single action Colt power.
View Quote


Not at all.  Sure you can buy .45 Colt cowboy loads but there are way more loads available.  There are way more non-cowboy loads than low power cowboy variants.  Even if you don't reload you can find everything from mild to wild available from brick and mortar stores and online.  Most every lever rifle out there is capable of handling .45 Colt ammo loaded to .44 magnum levels.  Even a 255 grain "low power" cowboy load is extremely effective as a hunting or defensive load.  

I'm a big fan of the .357 magnum but the .45 Colt can do way more with its larger/heavier bullets.
Link Posted: 3/20/2021 11:01:54 AM EDT
[#12]
If you dont even know if the guy is really into shooting, he probably wont have good form to handle recoil.
If he’s retiring, he’s older and probably will be recoil averse.
At most the guy will shoot it a few times, and maybe have fun with it. He’s certainly not going to plop down and start reloading it. You’d be expecting a lot from the guy to get into a new hobby at max speed.

All of those points lead you to a 357mag lever action.
If fun.

You know whats not fun? 45-70, when you’ve never really shot guns.
Link Posted: 3/20/2021 6:40:15 PM EDT
[#13]
Even with full power loads, the 357 is hard to beat. Very easy to shoot and .38 ammo can be used for practice.
Link Posted: 3/21/2021 12:35:38 PM EDT
[#14]
For a trophy/gift rifle, think about UBERTI.

Link Posted: 3/21/2021 2:34:39 PM EDT
[#15]
Isn’t SD pretty open?
Unless he’s into Western style guns, why not a flat shooting caliber?
Maybe the old style Browning BLR in 7mm/08 or 308?
Not knowing his tastes or what he’s into, it is a crap shoot.
Link Posted: 3/21/2021 3:22:58 PM EDT
[#16]
Quoted:
Even with full power loads, the 357 is hard to beat. Very easy to shoot and .38 ammo can be used for practice.
View Quote

357 is the best answer in my opinion that only beaten by 22 as a fun gun. When the craziness subsided 38/357 are cheaper by far than any of the other calibers and the ballistics of a 357 out of a carbine are pretty solid if he’s looking to actually use it.
Quoted:
For a trophy/gift rifle, think about UBERTI.

View Quote

They make some good looking guns. I think I’ll end up with one eventually. Very classic looking.
Link Posted: 3/21/2021 7:31:56 PM EDT
[#17]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
For a trophy/gift rifle, think about UBERTI.

View Quote

I agree 1873 maybe.
Link Posted: 3/22/2021 11:33:07 AM EDT
[#18]
A Henry Big Boy carbine in .44 mag or .45 Colt would be a good choice for an all around ranch gun.
Link Posted: 3/22/2021 11:42:17 AM EDT
[#19]
In today’s ammo availability, and not knowing your friends interest, I would say a pistol caliber rifle. Most versatile and fun for repeat shooting. The .45-70 is fun, but as mentioned could end up as a wall hanger if only factory loads are used. Plus the selection of pistol caliber rifle manufacturers are greater.

Also if your friend enjoys the rifle, could peak his interest into expanding into a companion revolver such as a Ruger Blackhawk or one of the Uberti remakes.

And the same goes for .22 rimfire lever actions.
Link Posted: 3/22/2021 1:22:17 PM EDT
[#20]
Got to agree with the folks recommending pistol caliber.  A .357 Mag Henry Big Boy Brass looks cool and is still a fun and pleasant shooting plinker with .38 Special or capable of taking deer with .357 Mag.
Link Posted: 3/22/2021 1:31:12 PM EDT
[#21]
I would suggest 444 marlin, followed by 444 marlin or else 444 marlin.

Round up some brass and load pistol bullets for tons of fun.


I have 22, 357, 44mag, 35 rem and 444 in levers, the 444 stays out, goto porch gong rifle, just allot of fun in a lever.

Not sure Henry runs that caliber, but just my 2 cents.  Marlin 444
Link Posted: 3/23/2021 1:59:41 PM EDT
[#22]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Not at all.  Sure you can buy .45 Colt cowboy loads but there are way more loads available.  There are way more non-cowboy loads than low power cowboy variants.  Even if you don't reload you can find everything from mild to wild available from brick and mortar stores and online.  Most every lever rifle out there is capable of handling .45 Colt ammo loaded to .44 magnum levels.  Even a 255 grain "low power" cowboy load is extremely effective as a hunting or defensive load.  

I'm a big fan of the .357 magnum but the .45 Colt can do way more with its larger/heavier bullets.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
45 Colt is purposely loaded to weak single action Colt power.


Not at all.  Sure you can buy .45 Colt cowboy loads but there are way more loads available.  There are way more non-cowboy loads than low power cowboy variants.  Even if you don't reload you can find everything from mild to wild available from brick and mortar stores and online.  Most every lever rifle out there is capable of handling .45 Colt ammo loaded to .44 magnum levels.  Even a 255 grain "low power" cowboy load is extremely effective as a hunting or defensive load.  

I'm a big fan of the .357 magnum but the .45 Colt can do way more with its larger/heavier bullets.



Good points but 45 colt ammo is now .452” bullets and my new rossi lever gun is .454” bore.

Will lose accuracy shooting .452” out of a .454” bore.

Link Posted: 3/30/2021 12:44:04 AM EDT
[#23]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:



Good points but 45 colt ammo is now .452” bullets and my new rossi lever gun is .454” bore.

Will lose accuracy shooting .452” out of a .454” bore.

View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
45 Colt is purposely loaded to weak single action Colt power.


Not at all.  Sure you can buy .45 Colt cowboy loads but there are way more loads available.  There are way more non-cowboy loads than low power cowboy variants.  Even if you don't reload you can find everything from mild to wild available from brick and mortar stores and online.  Most every lever rifle out there is capable of handling .45 Colt ammo loaded to .44 magnum levels.  Even a 255 grain "low power" cowboy load is extremely effective as a hunting or defensive load.  

I'm a big fan of the .357 magnum but the .45 Colt can do way more with its larger/heavier bullets.



Good points but 45 colt ammo is now .452” bullets and my new rossi lever gun is .454” bore.

Will lose accuracy shooting .452” out of a .454” bore.




Here are the specs for 45 Colt.

The bullet diameter is 0.450" to 0.456"

The barrel groove diameter is 0.450" to 0.454"

The barrel bore diameter is  0.446" to 0.450"

Regardless if the groove diameter is 0.454", a 0.452" bullet is still going to be smaller than the bore diameter.

44 Magnum is a lot harder hitting than 357 Magnum, especially at 100 yards.

44 Magnum cases last much longer reloading than thin 30-30 cases and use less powder.

44 Magnum is pretty good at lever action, woods ranges.

Cowboy action loads can be had in 44 Special and full power hunting loads in 44 Magnum.

Some 44 Special ammo is too short to feed in some lever actions, but usually most 44 Special ammo will feed in most rifles.

I've loaded 45 Colt hot and it works well, but 44 Magnum still has the edge in sectional density.
Link Posted: 4/3/2021 1:59:47 PM EDT
[#24]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:



Here are the specs for 45 Colt.

The bullet diameter is 0.450" to 0.456"

The barrel groove diameter is 0.450" to 0.454"

The barrel bore diameter is  0.446" to 0.450"

Regardless if the groove diameter is 0.454", a 0.452" bullet is still going to be smaller than the bore diameter.

44 Magnum is a lot harder hitting than 357 Magnum, especially at 100 yards.

44 Magnum cases last much longer reloading than thin 30-30 cases and use less powder.

44 Magnum is pretty good at lever action, woods ranges.

Cowboy action loads can be had in 44 Special and full power hunting loads in 44 Magnum.

Some 44 Special ammo is too short to feed in some lever actions, but usually most 44 Special ammo will feed in most rifles.

I've loaded 45 Colt hot and it works well, but 44 Magnum still has the edge in sectional density.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
45 Colt is purposely loaded to weak single action Colt power.


Not at all.  Sure you can buy .45 Colt cowboy loads but there are way more loads available.  There are way more non-cowboy loads than low power cowboy variants.  Even if you don't reload you can find everything from mild to wild available from brick and mortar stores and online.  Most every lever rifle out there is capable of handling .45 Colt ammo loaded to .44 magnum levels.  Even a 255 grain "low power" cowboy load is extremely effective as a hunting or defensive load.  

I'm a big fan of the .357 magnum but the .45 Colt can do way more with its larger/heavier bullets.



Good points but 45 colt ammo is now .452” bullets and my new rossi lever gun is .454” bore.

Will lose accuracy shooting .452” out of a .454” bore.




Here are the specs for 45 Colt.

The bullet diameter is 0.450" to 0.456"

The barrel groove diameter is 0.450" to 0.454"

The barrel bore diameter is  0.446" to 0.450"

Regardless if the groove diameter is 0.454", a 0.452" bullet is still going to be smaller than the bore diameter.

44 Magnum is a lot harder hitting than 357 Magnum, especially at 100 yards.

44 Magnum cases last much longer reloading than thin 30-30 cases and use less powder.

44 Magnum is pretty good at lever action, woods ranges.

Cowboy action loads can be had in 44 Special and full power hunting loads in 44 Magnum.

Some 44 Special ammo is too short to feed in some lever actions, but usually most 44 Special ammo will feed in most rifles.

I've loaded 45 Colt hot and it works well, but 44 Magnum still has the edge in sectional density.



Ruger revolvers are .452” from my research, guess post WWII, many gun companies moved from .454 to .452” wish Rossi would do the same.

Do you know any ammo manufactures who are making .454”-.455” bullets?

Link Posted: 4/4/2021 2:15:29 PM EDT
[#25]
We'd really need to have more information on the type of shooting he does, but 45-70 is probably off the table as it is expensive and a lot of the loads for it kick more than an old dude probably would enjoy.

For some reason I have always felt that 30-30 recoils a lot for the ballistic performance you get. I'd rather shoot my 45-70 than an 1894; maybe because it's heavier at 8.1 lbs. Either way, the heavier .357 mag loads approach 30-30 energy coming from an 18" barrel and in return for the slightly lower energy you get about twice the magazine capacity.

.45 Colt is like 45-70 in that it is very versatile even with factory ammo.

I'd recommend .357, .44, or .45 Colt for him. 1873s are probably my favorite, but the Henry pistol caliber guns use the same locking mechanism as a Marlin 336 (as do their full-size rifles) and so are probably the strongest.
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