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Posted: 1/15/2021 4:08:09 PM EDT
[#1]
The only folks that can request to see your paperwork are the feds. If you want to carry a copy of your confidential tax document with your weapon that’s up to you.
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Posted: 1/15/2021 4:10:14 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The only folks that can request to see your paperwork are the feds. I you want to carry a copy of your confidential tax document with your weapon that’s up to you. So, stupid question. When you say tax document.. Does this come at the end of the year with W2's or something? |
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Posted: 1/15/2021 4:17:28 PM EDT
[#3]
Your form one is that document. It’s considered a tax document.. It has a tax stamp on it. If approached by any LE, besides a fed, you could be nice and show it to them. Just take a picture and keep it on your phone.
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Posted: 1/15/2021 4:18:30 PM EDT
[#4]
First, anyone can request you show them the stamp. You don’t have to show anyone though. A range can make you leave if you refuse. It would be wise to show the feds or even regular cops. As it’s quick and easy way to go about your business. But again, you don’t have to do shit.
The digital copy they emailed you is all you get. I printed one out and saved a copy on my phone and Computer. I only carry digital copies of my stamps. If that’s not enough, screw em. If that’s all I get with SBRs then why I need anything else for suppressor or anything else. |
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Posted: 1/15/2021 4:19:24 PM EDT
[#5]
A lot of people keep a copy of their approved form, either physical or digital, with the item when they are out and about.
Technically, the only people that can demand to see proof are ATF officers. |
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Posted: 1/15/2021 4:19:42 PM EDT
[#6]
Did you file with paper or online on the efile website. If you filed with paper, you should have gotten your form 1 back with the tax stamp affixed to the top right corner. This is all you get. It could take a couple weeks to get in the mail if you called to check status and that's how you know it was approved.
If you filed online you should have gotten a pdf emailed to you. |
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Posted: 1/15/2021 4:23:04 PM EDT
[#7]
There is a reason the ATF has a direct phone line for L/E to call to determine if a weapon is in their registry.
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Posted: 1/15/2021 4:24:35 PM EDT
[#8]
Quoted: First, anyone can request you show them the stamp. You don’t have to show anyone though. A range can make you leave if you refuse. It would be wise to show the feds or even regular cops. As it’s quick and easy way to go about your business. But again, you don’t have to do shit. The digital copy they emailed you is all you get. I printed one out and saved a copy on my phone and Computer. I only carry digital copies of my stamps. If that’s not enough, screw em. If that’s all I get with SBRs then why I need anything else for suppressor or anything else. This. If asked, you can ask if they have a warrant or if those plates are level 4. Or you can just show them your approved form 1 or 4. People have various hills they're willing to die on. Pick your hill. |
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Posted: 1/15/2021 4:24:37 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Did you file with paper or online on the efile website. If you filed with paper, you should have gotten your form 1 back with the tax stamp affixed to the top right corner. This is all you get. It could take a couple weeks to get in the mail if you called to check status and that's how you know it was approved. If you filed online you should have gotten a pdf emailed to you. Gotcha! Thanks guys. I efiled and just have the PDF. I wasn't sure if I was supposed to receive like a little stamp or some sort of card with a stamp on it in the mail. Just wanted to be certain. I just took a photo of the PDF version and will keep it on my phone. Edit, I have no problem whatsoever showing the approval. I went through the trouble, I may as well! Just wanted to know what is "shown" for approval. |
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Posted: 1/15/2021 4:43:14 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This. If asked, you can ask if they have a warrant or if those plates are level 4. Or you can just show them your approved form 1 or 4. People have various hills they're willing to die on. Pick your hill. What would asking about the level of plates do? |
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Posted: 1/15/2021 4:48:32 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What would asking about the level of plates do? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: This. If asked, you can ask if they have a warrant or if those plates are level 4. Or you can just show them your approved form 1 or 4. People have various hills they're willing to die on. Pick your hill. What would asking about the level of plates do? 
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Posted: 1/15/2021 4:53:56 PM EDT
[#12]
ROFL we literally just did this last week, and here we are again with the same wrong answers.
https://www.ar15.com/forums/Armory/Is-a-picture-on-your-phone-good-enough-for-the-tax-stamp-/20-520044/?page=1 |
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Posted: 1/15/2021 8:18:30 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There is a reason the ATF has a direct phone line for L/E to call to determine if a weapon is in their registry. The operations center won't process a NFRTR query for state or local LE. It cannot be queried in NCIC either. They'd need to get ATF (probably a Special Agent) to execute the query. I've never actually seen anyone (in state/local LE) do it, but that's how it'd work. |
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Posted: 1/15/2021 8:38:09 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That line is only for use by federal employees. The operations center won't process a NFRTR query for state or local LE. It cannot be queried in NCIC either. They'd need to get ATF (probably a Special Agent) to execute the query. I've never actually seen anyone (in state/local LE) do it, but that's how it'd work. Senior ATF Special Agent friend says he cannot get access to NFRTR without a valid case number. |
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Posted: 1/17/2021 6:05:27 AM EDT
[#15]
It is extraordinary unlikely any local LEO would ever ask to see my stamp paperwork, especially in small town Utah. Nevertheless, to avoid any hassles I have a very organized binder at home with all my stamps and a folded copy in a ziplock bag I keep in my range bag.
In the unlikely event a LEO happens by and is concerned with my cans, SBR's, etc., I have no problem showing them my paperwork. Here, it's more likely I'd wind up with a new friend and shooting buddy. LOL!!! |
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Posted: 1/17/2021 6:52:15 PM EDT
[#16]
it's not a bad idea to keep a copy on you, a miniaturized and waterproofed copy fits neatly in many buttstocks, grips, and you can keep copies under the foam in your cases you use for the cans/guns.
in reality you only have to show them to atf officials. also in reality the police can detain you under reasonable suspicion and you can show the judge that your forms were correct. how bad of a day that turns into depends on various factors. like the guy above said, pick your hill to die on. statistically there's cops on the wrong side of the thin blue line that are either less than competent or downright ignorant and or corrupt and if fate that day puts you in front of one of those and he decides you're going to jail well, you're going to jail. sure it will be thrown out. but you still went to jail which is less of a fun time than enjoying your range time as planned.... |
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Posted: 1/19/2021 3:19:37 PM EDT
[#17]
I keep a copy of my approved Form 1, stamp, and trust on my phone (in the cloud) in case ATF asks while I'm at a range, which seems like a rarity.
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Posted: 3/27/2021 10:07:22 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I keep a copy of my approved Form 1, stamp, and trust on my phone (in the cloud) in case ATF asks while I'm at a range, which seems like a rarity. Why would you ever give a federal agent access to your phone?!?!? Print out a copy to prevent that intrusion. |
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Posted: 3/27/2021 10:10:33 AM EDT
[#19]
Edit: don’t shoot places where the gestapo ask to see your papers and you don’t have to worry about it
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Posted: 3/27/2021 10:18:15 AM EDT
[#20]
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Posted: 3/27/2021 11:14:04 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: First, anyone can request you show them the stamp. You don’t have to show anyone though. A range can make you leave if you refuse. It would be wise to show the feds or even regular cops. As it’s quick and easy way to go about your business. But again, you don’t have to do shit. The digital copy they emailed you is all you get. I printed one out and saved a copy on my phone and Computer. I only carry digital copies of my stamps. If that’s not enough, screw em. If that’s all I get with SBRs then why I need anything else for suppressor or anything else. When did that happen? I've got four stamps, and they're all hard copy. |
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Posted: 3/27/2021 11:24:05 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: When did that happen? I've got four stamps, and they're all hard copy. Efile |
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Posted: 3/27/2021 11:44:48 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Efile One doesn't have to Efile, but if you do, all you'll get back is the digital PDF with a stamp image on it. You can download it, and print a copy if you want. Most people just save them on their phones, email, dropbox, or whatever. |
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Posted: 3/27/2021 5:53:49 PM EDT
[#24]
I got asked by an employee at an indoor range if my SBR is registered. Like most of you suggested, i told him “yes”. As i was prepared to whip out my copy of my Form 1, he then told me I didn’t need to pull out my paperwork. He then told me he had to ask because they had someone that week walked in with an unregistered SBR. To cover their own rear-end as a business, they have to ask if a firearm looks like an NFA item to them. Like you all have said, its easier to comply. And yeah, you don’t have to show your paperwork... but they do have the right to ask you to leave.
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Posted: 3/27/2021 5:57:45 PM EDT
[#25]
It’s not required, but I keep a folder with all my tax stamps/approved forms in my range bag
It’ll be faster to show a cop at the time than getting a free ride |
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Posted: 3/27/2021 6:09:25 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: To cover their own rear-end as a business, they have to ask if a firearm looks like an NFA item to them.... He's full of shit. No law.....federal, state or local puts any level of responsibility or duty on a gun range to verify if an SBR, silencer, etc is registered. No insurance company either. |
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Posted: 3/27/2021 6:15:28 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: He then told me he had to ask because they had someone that week walked in with an unregistered SBR. To cover their own rear-end as a business, they have to ask if a firearm looks like an NFA item to them. LOL Gun Store Commandos never disappoint. Next time ask him how they "cover their own rear-end as a business" if someone comes in with a stolen gun? Or if the person is prohibited? |
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Posted: 3/27/2021 6:58:53 PM EDT
[#28]
In Oregon, SBR/suppressors, etc. are unlawful unless registered. If shown proof of registration, popo cannot arrest. Now if you don't have documentation, the officer can arrest you on the charge. On the back end, a affirmative defense is showing proof the C3 item is registered.
All that said, I've owned suppressors, SBRs, SBS, and a SMG for 12 years and have never been asked for paperwork. That includes a good 6-7 times of LE contact while out shooting in the woods and even while shooting my SMG at a LE range in the Portland metro area that's open to the public. |
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Posted: 3/27/2021 7:06:57 PM EDT
[#29]
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Posted: 3/27/2021 7:21:52 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: “Must be made available.” Does not specify WHEN or WHERE. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/105614/C42DE6EB-9267-4E6D-8346-87DF841499D5_jpe-1882536.JPG Let me finish that sentence for you "upon request of any ATF officer" Unless I'm mistaken, the "When" is when you are requested to by an ATF officer and the "where" is the place where you are standing when requested by an ATF officer. Am i missing something with this interpretation? |
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Posted: 3/27/2021 7:24:14 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Let me finish that sentence for you "upon request of any ATF officer" Unless I'm mistaken, the "When" is when you are requested to by an ATF officer and the "where" is the place where you are standing when requested by an ATF officer. Am i missing something with this interpretation? LOL Anyone who disagrees with that interpretation should tell said ATF officer, "I will get back to you next week", and report back what happens next. |
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Posted: 3/28/2021 7:31:35 PM EDT
[#32]
Boggles my mind the level of nonsense around “showing forms” and “engraving” that gets kicked around here.
I keep a folder of copies of all stamps. I have never been asked to show anyone, but I’d have no problem showing a cop if I was ever asked. If you are shocking someone by flashing around an SBR or silencer, you’re probably not in the right place. No range I’ve ever been to gives a flying fuck. |
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Posted: 3/28/2021 8:01:25 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Boggles my mind the level of nonsense around “showing forms” and “engraving” that gets kicked around here. I keep a folder of copies of all stamps. I have never been asked to show anyone, but I’d have no problem showing a cop if I was ever asked. If you are shocking someone by flashing around an SBR or silencer, you’re probably not in the right place. No range I’ve ever been to gives a flying fuck. This. I mean really, I keep a copy of my forms in the glove box of my vehicles, they are redacted to not show my address though in case the vehicle gets stolen. I've never had someone at a range ask for proof, if they did, I'd leave. |
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Posted: 3/29/2021 8:30:06 AM EDT
[#34]
None of the ranges I've been to lately have cared what I'm shooting. I've never been asked to produce forms either. I was asked once by a local LE at the range if my SBR and silencer were registered to which I responded with 'yes'. That was the end of the conversation.
I have digital copies of the tax stamps on my phone and I keep a binder with copies of the tax stamp and my trust in my range bag. Just in case. But it's never come to me having to pull it out and perform a show and tell. |
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