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Posted: 1/22/2021 9:06:54 PM EDT
I have recently been told that I should not use anti-seize with graphite in it on aluminum. Is this true. My issue is that I have been using permatex 80071 on my AR-15 builds for years. It is a mixture of aluminum copper and graphite.  I was told that graphite will deteriorate aluminum.  Is this an issue for me that I need to correct or am I good to go.  I tried to search the internet and could not find much. Permatex claims that this anti-seize is good for cylinder head bolts which are mostly aluminum anymore
Link Posted: 1/23/2021 12:27:16 AM EDT
Graphite on it's own is not corrosive or harmful to aluminum. But graphite is electrically conductive and can contribute to galvanic corrosion from dissimilar metals. However, class 3 hard coat anodizing is considered an adequate barrier for galvanic corrosion so as long your AL parts are anodized the concern is diminished.

Obviously heavy wear areas are subject to eventually losing the hard coat anodizing but the graphite would be long gone by then and that AR will be near end of life.
Link Posted: 1/23/2021 1:31:32 AM EDT
I would recommend not using it with steel barrel nuts and aluminum uppers. I'm not sure if i would tear down, clean and reassemble an upper that had it, unless it was a duty weapon.
Link Posted: 1/23/2021 1:35:35 AM EDT
AeroShell 33 Grease is inexpensive & What the GI Manuals call for.

Hell, Amazon will same day it to you in most place for less than $10.

Why not use "The Right Stuff"?

BIGGER_HAMMER
Link Posted: 1/23/2021 1:41:17 AM EDT
I use Aeroshell 64.  I believe this is mil-spec and I have had no issues over several years.  I have some ceramic based, high-temp anti-seize that I use for mounting suppressors, think it is Permatex brand, can’t remember the number.  I would stay away from metallic or graphite based anti seize compounds as the others have mentioned.

Good luck.
Link Posted: 1/25/2021 12:21:41 PM EDT
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Quoted:
AeroShell 33 Grease is inexpensive & What the GI Manuals call for.

Hell, Amazon will same day it to you in most place for less than $10.

Why not use "The Right Stuff"?

BIGGER_HAMMER
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I bought a couple of the tiny containers of it and had them shipped to my house for under $10. I thought that it was silly to buy such a small amount of fancy grease, when I had antisieze and grease at home, but it was peace of mind. For that $10, it will be a lifetime supply for me. It’s probably enough to build 50-100 uppers. A little goes a long way.
Link Posted: 1/28/2021 12:11:52 AM EDT
I use thread sealant.  Can't corrode if they dont get wet!
Link Posted: 1/28/2021 9:37:31 PM EDT
It's called GALVANIC CORROSION

Link Posted: 1/29/2021 10:56:52 AM EDT
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Quoted:
It's called GALVANIC CORROSION

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And it requires an electrolyte to support the cycle, so keep it dry.
Link Posted: 1/29/2021 11:09:59 AM EDT
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Quoted:
And it requires an electrolyte to support the cycle, so keep it dry.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
It's called GALVANIC CORROSION

And it requires an electrolyte to support the cycle, so keep it dry.

Yes, and salt typically was the largest contributing factor historically.

Graphite is not a metal, but its conductivity is high enough that it can cause galvanic corrosion.

As far as metal nobility, mild steel > aluminum. Anodizing helps prevent the issue.

For galvanic corrosion to occur, the metals involved must be connected in two ways. First, they must be in electrical contact, either through direct physical contact or through another conducting material, to allow an electric current to flow from one metal to the other. Second, they must also be in ionic contact, so an ion current can flow between them. This requires an electrolyte, namely, a solution containing ions such as from a dissolved salt, an acid or a base. For ionic contact, the metals might be completely immersed in the electrolyte or coated with a continuous film of electrolyte that wets both metals, as can happen when the humidity is high.


Chances are low but still a possibility. Not worth the risk.
Link Posted: 2/6/2021 11:51:45 PM EDT
FWIW, I was trained in a copper based anti-seize for aluminum to steel connections like barrel nuts
Link Posted: 2/8/2021 8:26:45 AM EDT
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FWIW, I was trained in a copper based anti-seize for aluminum to steel connections like barrel nuts
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"Trained"?

Do tell.....
Link Posted: 2/15/2021 1:38:39 PM EDT
Quoted:
I have recently been told that I should not use anti-seize with graphite in it on aluminum. Is this true. My issue is that I have been using permatex 80071 on my AR-15 builds for years. It is a mixture of aluminum copper and graphite.  I was told that graphite will deteriorate aluminum.  Is this an issue for me that I need to correct or am I good to go.  I tried to search the internet and could not find much. Permatex claims that this anti-seize is good for cylinder head bolts which are mostly aluminum anymore
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You don't have enough arms, is what you are saying.
Get more and use different "anti-seize".
What exactly is seizing?
Plain 'ol white lithium grease works just fine.
Aeroshell is white lith with moly powder in it.

The question is more interesting when you toss in operating temps or interfaces that move but are prone to seizing, like piston rings.
Link Posted: 2/15/2021 10:18:17 PM EDT
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AeroShell 33 Grease is inexpensive & What the GI Manuals call for.
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This for the win - been using it for years with no issues. A little goes a long ways and try not to get any on you when you use it...
Link Posted: 2/25/2021 12:48:18 AM EDT
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Quoted:

"Trained"?

Do tell.....
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Quoted:
Quoted:
FWIW, I was trained in a copper based anti-seize for aluminum to steel connections like barrel nuts

"Trained"?

Do tell.....


Had a good tutor who was an army armorer.  I have heard a lot of people advocate for copper based anti-seize for galvanic issues associated with steel and aluminum connections.  Many of the metal inserts fir screws used by Daniel Defense and KAC also have copper.

Do you disagree with copper based anti-seize ?
Link Posted: 2/25/2021 7:17:37 PM EDT
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Quoted:


Had a good tutor who was an army armorer.  I have heard a lot of people advocate for copper based anti-seize for galvanic issues associated with steel and aluminum connections.  Many of the metal inserts fir screws used by Daniel Defense and KAC also have copper.

Do you disagree with copper based anti-seize ?
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
FWIW, I was trained in a copper based anti-seize for aluminum to steel connections like barrel nuts

"Trained"?

Do tell.....


Had a good tutor who was an army armorer.  I have heard a lot of people advocate for copper based anti-seize for galvanic issues associated with steel and aluminum connections.  Many of the metal inserts fir screws used by Daniel Defense and KAC also have copper.

Do you disagree with copper based anti-seize ?



Copper Grade Anti-Seize a combination of copper (10%) flake, graphite and other extreme pressure additives. 

The use of metallic-based thread paste technology can create conditions where the thread paste is incompatible with the metallurgy of the machinery. Metallic-based thread pastes typically contain a high percent volume concentration of graphite compared to the metallic filler. Graphite is often referred to as a “metalloid” in that it is conductive and acts as a dissimilar metal.


Stainless steel, carbon steel, brass, bronze, aluminum components being assembled require a thread lubricant that does not contribute to galvanic corrosion and, more so, protect the surface from atmospheric corrosion. 

Lithium fortified with moly is the way.



Link Posted: 2/25/2021 11:52:04 PM EDT
What does the grease and oils that make up part of the anti seize do? You guys do realize that anti seize isnt straight metallic metals and graphite.

Anti seize has been used on steel / aluminum threads for quite a while in the automotive world. Most of those aluminum threads are just plain machined aluminum. They don't even have the added benefit of being hard anodized like an AR upper has.

Anti seize is a specialty lubricant intended for this purpose.  

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Permatex:
A highly refined blend of aluminum, copper and graphite lubricants. Use during assembly to prevent galling, corrosion and seizing due to weathering or chemicals. Anti-Seize assures easier disassembly. Temperature range: -60°F to 1600°F (-51°C to 871°C). Salt, corrosion and moisture resistant ? ideal for marine use. Non-aerosol version meets Mil Spec #907E.
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It all boils down to the threads needing lubricated for assembly. Use a grease type lubricant and you will be fine. AeroShell, anti seize, wheel bearing grease, Crisco
Link Posted: 2/26/2021 10:21:52 AM EDT
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Quoted:
What does the grease and oils that make up part of the anti seize do? You guys do realize that anti seize isnt straight metallic metals and graphite.

Anti seize has been used on steel / aluminum threads for quite a while in the automotive world. Most of those aluminum threads are just plain machined aluminum. They don't even have the added benefit of being hard anodized like an AR upper has.

Anti seize is a specialty lubricant intended for this purpose.  




It all boils down to the threads needing lubricated for assembly. Use a grease type lubricant and you will be fine. AeroShell, anti seize, wheel bearing grease, Crisco
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Quoted:
What does the grease and oils that make up part of the anti seize do? You guys do realize that anti seize isnt straight metallic metals and graphite.

Anti seize has been used on steel / aluminum threads for quite a while in the automotive world. Most of those aluminum threads are just plain machined aluminum. They don't even have the added benefit of being hard anodized like an AR upper has.

Anti seize is a specialty lubricant intended for this purpose.  

Permatex:
A highly refined blend of aluminum, copper and graphite lubricants. Use during assembly to prevent galling, corrosion and seizing due to weathering or chemicals. Anti-Seize assures easier disassembly. Temperature range: -60°F to 1600°F (-51°C to 871°C). Salt, corrosion and moisture resistant ? ideal for marine use. Non-aerosol version meets Mil Spec #907E.



It all boils down to the threads needing lubricated for assembly. Use a grease type lubricant and you will be fine. AeroShell, anti seize, wheel bearing grease, Crisco

To each their own. And likely 90% here will never encounter saltwater / extreme humidity type environments for extended periods as in past theaters, but the specs are there for reasons.

Oxidation stability of Lubricating Greases and Detection of copper corrosion from Lubricating Greases are part of testing per the .Mil std, not by happenstance.  


Link Posted: 3/27/2021 4:33:52 PM EDT
This is the stuff you want to use.  They sell it on amazon in MUCH smaller jars for not much less money.  A few ounces goes a long way.

https://pilotshq.com/products/aeroshell-33ms-64-extreme-pressure-grease-mil-21164d

If you are in a hurry at 2AM & your wally world doesn't carry the Aeroshell, this will work too.


https://www.amazon.com/Loctite-37230-Silver-Anti-Seize-Stick/dp/B003THFRCC
Link Posted: 3/28/2021 9:54:52 PM EDT
I actually use a thread sealant when I assemble my uppers, Loctite 567.  It keeps the threads dry and has moderate thread-lock properties.  It's not cheap, but I keep it around for sealing other threaded stuff.
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