When I started reloading back in 2007, I read that for bolt action rifles, neck sizing only your brass that was fireformed in your Gun was better than FL sizing your brass after every shot and now I’m seeing videos to FL your brass after every shot?

Anybody else?

Things come and go. I'm pretty sure I've seen the vid you're referring to, and I found it unnecessarily histrionic personally.

Neck sizing is good for brass that will be used in a single rifle, preferably a bolt action, and it means you will pretty rarely need to trim. Also your brass will last a long time. You also won't need lube to prep.

If you are neck sizing for, say, a competition bolt action I can't see any reason to stop.

There are obvious downsides to neck sizing of course but it clearly has its uses. But I think some people may think erroneously that neck sized brass has a monopoly on accuracy, which probably is not true... but I would imagine most benchrest shooters are using neck sizing and arbor dies for a reason, and it isn't just because they're easy to take to the range.

I neck size for a couple of "precision" bolt actions. I couldn't quantify the accuracy gains I see and may not be good enough to see them, but I appreciate some of the other qualities I mentioned.

I also neck size a lot of stuff I shoot low power cast loads in.

I don't believe anyone could post a better response. Great post Redarts.!!!!!

Motor

I only neck size my magazine feed bolt actions.

I learned there is simply no need for me to full size my cases ever.

I don't do it for the case but rather consistentsy as I'm looking for zero head gap every time.

I've never done a side-by-side comparison of neck-sized vs. full length-sized brass, but I doubt there is much if any measureable difference in accuracy in most rifles. Something that's worked well for me is a combination of the two: sizing just enough so that a loaded cartridge chambers with slight resistance. In ARs, however, full length sizing is usually mandatory, just don't overdo it as brass probably won't last long. If you get to where sized brass / loaded rounds work fine through a case gauge, that's plenty. You may be able to screw the die down tighter and oversize the case, something to be avoided.

Most of my loading is for bolt-action rifles. Some, particularly magnum cases that aren't full length sized, will eventually require a full length sizing after several loadings or they won't chamber. Maximum case longevity can be achieved in this manner. Case separations are avoided and I haven't seen any accuracy problems that can be attributed to partial sizing.

My side-by-side comparison,  Remington 40 XB in 243 win.

RCBS Standard dies-neck sizing is less accurate then FL sizing.  Brass life is the same because of split necks using an expander. Some dies will over work the neck area when sizing.  Not all.

My preferred method-    Redding type S FL sizing bushing die, with controlled shoulder bump.  Neck turned brass/no expander. Factory brass with expander, light drag on pull through. Do lube the inside and outside of the neck using a bushing and expander.  No expander, lube outside of neck only, brush inside.

I have not tried- Redding body die with Lee collet neck die.  Many online like it.

Doing your own testing is the only way to know.

Some barrels / cartridges can be necksized only, others need the shoulder set back periodically. I think the sharp AI and BR cartridges tend to not require FL sizing.

Awhile back, it was common to necksize and every 3-5 loads set the shoulder back a little. Competitive shooters discovered that it was more consistent to FL size a minimal amount each load. I think you'll find that the vast majority of top LR shooters are now doing a minimal FL shoulder setback every time. The whidden click die looks like a great way to control this but they are too rich for my blood.

I used to neck size only for bolt, until the handle gets heavy, then FL bump.  About every 4th sizing.

The necks are less concentric doing neck size only, and you are working the brass more, allowing it to grow and grow, then bumping it much further back.

With the advent of bushing neck sizers in a FL die body, you can do both, and have tight control over the small amount of shoulder bump, and sizing the neck while the brass is held very tightly in the die because it is being sized as well.  This allows very incredibly consistent brass, with precisely consistent concentricity of the neck to the body.  The bushings allow precise control of desired neck tension.

I use a Redding Type-S bushing Full Length sizing die, then I swap the default expander for their small floating carbide button.  Some opt to pull the expander altogether, which is fine if that's how you set up for your bushing size.

I have experimented with neck and FL sizing.

No appreciable gains in accuaracy but case life is better. And brass prep is easier. I have done it in 308, 300 rsaum, 6.5 CM and 22 TCM.

The one time I have found it to be almost mandatory is in my 22 tcm rifle. The chamber is horrible. many thousands over sized. Split cases on the factory firing was in the 20%.

So, I bought a 22 cal neck sizer and cut it down for the short case. Neck size about 80% of the neck, seat the bullet and have not had to throw out a case since. But the bolt is very tight now after 10 firings or so. Time to FLS and anneal and hope for the best on the next firing.

I full length size for my bolt guns. I had read the same thing about neck sizing as you, but already had FL dies and didnt have the money to spend on a neck sizing die back then.  I have had plenty of success and worked up my loads FL sizing.  Do what works for you.

Type S FL sizing die with a bushing controlling the neck tension is what works for me in bolt guns.  A bump of 2 thousandths bushing with no expander works well for me.  
I use the Type S die for a 2 stage pass .339 bushing in the Type S FL and the .336 in the Type S NK to finish off my 308 Lapua brass.  No surprises and consistent smooth chambering.
Case life is excellent.

I only reload for a few calibers 5.56,22-250,6 PPC 45apc, 44 mag. The 22-250 and 6 PPC I only neck size, Both will shoot sub .100" groups at 100 yards. the best with the 22-250 (Shilen DGA was one hole at three hundred yards).
For hunting I only use factory ammo.
For the pistol rounds and 5.56, I FL resize.
I will wait until the bolt is a little hard to close then will FL resize, trim if needed.

I FL size every time.  Bump the shoulder back minimally, and it provides me with more consistent results than neck sizing did.  Eventually my cases became harder to chamber and needed bumps anyway.

Thanks for the replies. I’ll shoot some loads and look for accuracy. I will then take my most accurate full length sized load and neck size only and try to get more accuracy. If it fails I will go back to regular FL and use my neck sizer if my brass falls and dents on the ground.

I neck size my Grendel and Blackout brass with Wilson hand dies. Have a Redding body die as well for the Grendel brass which was necessary as the brass eventually becomes difficult to chamber.

I'm not an expert, but I've seen the same trend OP. Used to always read and hear that for best accuracy you should just neck size and full size when necessary. Now I see a lot of people citing how full length sizing every loading is common in benchrest circles now. I think one thing that gets left out of that however is much of that full sizing is being done with custom dies.

I'm happy with my setup and I'm going to continue to use it. I only just recently got an arbor press and I've started loading bullets with Wilson micrometer seaters as well. The concept behind why they say it will make more concentric ammo makes sense to me. Plus I think they're kind of cool.

I've never necksized except when I first started reloading.....I only had a Lee Target Loader the first few months, it only did necks.  I don't compete and certainly I'm not a benchrester, but I know quite a few and I've noticed the trend has gone away from neck sizing in their hobby.

The one-holers they worship seem to get smaller by full length sizing with dies that don't expand the necks.....special ordered for their rifle.  That means a die for each brand of brass even, because neck wall thickness matters.

It's all about concentricity.  Neck sizing is not helpful there....it tends to send necks another direction from the rest of the case....even a little matters to those guys.

I've been around longer then I'd like to admit and have been reading accuracy articles in gun magazines for years. One thing in common that they all have is that neck only sizing was always the most effective way to improve accuracy.

Yes there are many other accuracy "tricks" but the one thing that made the largest difference in group sizes was neck only sizing.

Motor

The operative word is "was".  2 years ago, I woulda said exactly the same thing.  2 years ago benchresters all neck sized.

Things change.  I've been reading the same magazine articles as you for 46 years.....enough to agree with what you said 100%....up until 2 years ago.    Maybe there's a conspiracy.

Here's a couple of examples.....but just a tip of the conspiracy iceburg....

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2017/10/stop-neck-sizing-why-you-should-full-length-size-your-brass/

http://www.larrywillis.com/resizing.html

The first one (link) has be discussed several times with the same conclusion. This guy is shooting a custom gun with custom made chamber and is using custom dies. For the everyday guy with the store bought rifle neck only sizing is still your best bet.

It's simple logic. If the case is already nearly a perfect fit for chamber it's going to be centered better in the chamber and less likely to move off center while expanding. I'll take logic over anything any day.

I'll read the second link when I get a chance.

I can tell you this. I competed with 3.different rifles, 6mm Remington, (model 788), .280 Remington (Ruger M77V), .308 Win (Ruger M77 with #3 ER Shaw barrel).

I shot neck only sized brass in all 3 over at least a 10 year span and never had a single problem weather on the line or while practicing. Never wore out a single casing either. I annealed about every 5th cycle. My LC 7.62x51 brass had around 15 cycles on it when I stopped competing. I continued to use that same brass for a 742 autoloader, full length sized of course, until the webs started to thin. That took about 4 to 5 more cycles.

I'm not in any way saying that you can't get very good accuracy full length sizing. We do it all the time with our big game rifles and semiautomatic rifles but there is no way you are going to get both accuracy and long case life full length sizing. At least not with factory chambers and regular dies.

Motor

I do not neck size for any rifle.

First and foremost, I want all my ammo to run in any gun that I shoot it from, including my buddies rifle.  We quite often use my loads to verify rifle accuracy.
Second, I shoot mostly semi auto rifles, so FL is a necessity, and at least a 10 thou bump on the shoulder.
Third, I talk with guys that have been shooting F-class or benchrest for decades, and 90% of them just FL and have for years.  
Forth, neck sizing goes not equate to more accuracy or increase case life.
Fifth, consistent neck tension and case capacity is more important than anything for consistent accuracy.  
Sixth, if you want to do something that will actually increase accuracy, start mandrel sizing your necks instead of relying on an expander ball.
Seventh, if you want more case life, start annealing.  The by product of this will be better accuracy due to more consistent neck tension.

Items 3 thru 7 Ive learned from guys that have shot at the top of their game in F-class or benchrest for years.  These guys are the ones that shoot sub 1/4" groups on a regular basis.  I dont even approach their level of skill, but that doesnt mean I cant take some of the 100's of years of shooting and reloading knowledge they have and apply it for myself.

"No appreciable gains in accuaracy but case life is better. And brass prep is easier."

This has also been my experience and why I neck size for my one and only center fire bolt gun, mostly because the sizing is quicker.  I definitely enjoy shooting more than loading.

Also, as others have mentioned, the newer trend in FL sizing is with much more expensive or custom sizing dies which require more setup and tinkering time.

I don't shoot X rings, mostly steel that is at least 2 moa or larger out to 1000 yards.  I understand why more serious BR, F-Class or other competition shooters would spend more time and $$ on their sizing hardware and processes.

I agree with those who go with neck sizing for brass life, consistency, and simplicity in a particular rifle.  I think some are overlooking that fact that many/most of those competition shooters with the full sizing method are using those custom dies with a custom chamber to pursue the results they achieve.

With many examples of the extreme accuracy achieved by the "old fashioned" neck sizing method, I think one would have to have some decent money to throw at the "professional" method, and that's fine for those who have the cash or compete at these extreme levels.

On the other hand, when you consider that you can buy a Ruger American bolt rifle, a decently priced scope, and off-the-shelf ammo to end up shooting some amazingly accurate results, a lot of this tends to get down to hair splitting.

I realize that hair splitting is what's involved at the very top of the long range competition venue, but that probably isn't necessary for the vast majority of even the most serious reloaders.

I guess many of us will slog along with the antiquated, ineffective neck sizing method and suffer in silence.

Exactly the point I was trying to make. Every single negative comment about neck only sizing points to some form of competitive shooting where very specialized equipment is being used.

Stop comparing specialized methods to the  masses who shoot store bought rifles.

Motor

Except Im not.  Most of the guys that I know that shoot BR or F-class are using something like a Rockchucker and Redding dies.  They trickle their powder with a Chargemaster or into a 5-0-5 with a hand trickler.  They arent doing rocket surgery here.

If you want to debate the merits, or lack thereof, of neck sizing I certainly will.  I think its a waste of time that has no tangible benefits.

I use Redding and Whidden dies,  They are nice but they aren't custom. I have a number of friends who shoot factory rifles with less expensive dies.  
I still have them bump .002"   My rifles are all customs but is not like that is some voodoo that makes the practice not work.

So seemingly endless case life with periodical neck annealing is not a tangible benefit? With no loss of accuracy.

This isn't speculation. I've used well over 100 pounds of powder in neck only sized ammo. I think that's enough to draw a valid opinion.

Motor

I was going to post something which has not yet been mentioned and is relevant but it seems a fight is about to break out, so I think I'll wait a while.

I would make the argument that annealing is the thing that keeps cases going for many loadings regardless of Neck or FL.  Since I started annealing I have only been losing cases to primer pockets, not cracked necks or anything like that.

Neck sizing  works and as stated, FL sizing after a few loads will restore concentric alignment.   Annealing restores and aids neck tension, both FL and neck sizing benefit from maintaining brass consistency.  Bottom line, in some chambers, calibers and rifles either method can prove to be the accuracy king.  Having done both for bolt gun calibers, accuracy being the goal, either showed to be amazing, depending on a few other variables.  I FL size my  brass, annealing after a determined number of cycles and just bumping the shoulder enough to function reliably.
Newbies should note that you FL size only for semi auto rifles.  Every PRC shooter I know has their own bit of wizard touches, but annealed brass is a common thread, most use bushing dies, most are anal about maintaining the brass to be consistent and reliable.

I can respect your opinion and what you have run across in your loading and shooting.  Most of the guys I am talking to shoot about 40+ lbs of powder a year from 1 or 2 rifles, and replace barrels like we change our socks.  A few of them have been shooting F-class or BR or some form of it since the 60's.  They have seen every fad come and go, the only thing they all say is consistency.

So how do we get consistency?  There are 3 schools of thought.  Yours is in the first.  Neck or full length size, anneal every 4-5 firings, full size as needed to get the case back in shape so you can close the bolt.   Heres the problem with this school of thought.  Lets say you rate your brass hardness on a scale of 1-5 and neck tension on a scale of 1-5.  Post annealing brass would have a hardness of 1, and because of that the neck tension on that case would would be a 5.  After your first firing and sizing the hardness increases to a 2, and tension drops to a 4.  Next firing hardness 3, tension 3.  You see where I am going with this?  Neck tension decreases as hardness increases.  You cannot maintain consistent neck tension which in turn effects consistency and therefore accuracy.  So if you base your accuracy load on a freshly annealed case, it will be close on the second firing, but by the 3rd or 4th your 1/2" group will turn into a 3/4" group.  So you anneal to get back to where you started from.

Next school of thought is simply to let the brass get as hard as possible.  Brass can only get so hard before it get to the point where the neck splits.  The idea here is fire that brass a few times so that the brass settles down, so that the neck tension becomes a consistent 2.  Now that the brass is consistent, they build their loads off this consistently hardened brass.  Case life is reduced with this method, but it does work.  Most guys that use this method simply replace their brass as needed.  This method does also reduce the amount of trimming that might need to be done considerably.

Last method is to anneal every firing.  This ensures the tension is always a 5.  Because you always know that the neck tension is a 5, your loads are very consistent, even more so that letting it get work hardened like my last example.  This method also gives the best brass life, but does require a little more trimming.

How does this translate out for Average Joe like me and you?  Well it points out that consistency is king.  Annealing every firing is by far the best for case life and consistency.  I will also say that I lose very few cases to neck splitting.  Generally the primer pocket wears out before I split a neck.

Next I want to point out how neck sizing can possibly induce run out when you make your ammo.  Almost no rifles have a perfectly aligned bore to chamber, or even a perfectly sized chamber, or is completely aligned from action to bolt to chamber to barrel.  Im not going to include multi thousand dollar rifles in this group, but even the guys that build and own these rifles will tell you there is some tolerance stacking.  Even some of the best barrel makers will tell you the same thing, and we have a few here in Wisconsin.  So lets look at a decent stock Remington 700 as an example.  This rifle will very likely have some tolerance stack up from the action to chamber to bore.  Very likely the chamber will be slightly egg shaped.  In this chamber you fire a round, neck size that case, but the case is still slightly egg shaped, or has otherwise been influenced by the tolerance stack up from action to bolt to bore.  This in turn can create an issue where you see run out in your bullets after they are seated.  You also have no way of getting the case exactly back into the chamber in the position it was last fired in.  Full length sizing removes this problem as the case is the same every time, therefore the run out on the bullet when it is loaded and chambered is exactly the same.  This is the reason I do not neck size, because for Average Joe with an average rifle, it simply doesnt pay off with measurable results.  Even those guys that have very pricey custom rifles, they are telling me the same thing, neck sizing simply is not consistent enough to warrant doing it.

Here is an article that really opened my eyes to a few things.  If you havent read it, please do.  Even if you dont learn anything from it, its a hell of a read.  Click here  Download the full PDF of the interview, but the author does a decent job with the Cliffs Notes version on his website.
The most important thing I gleaned from this article is that neck tension is the most important part of loading for accuracy and that counting grains of powder is generally a waste of time.

These are just my thoughts as a relative rookie in comparison to the guys I am talking with.  But the really great thing about old guys like this?  They have no problems imparting their wisdom to relative youngster like me at 43 over a beer at the bar, or even at the range when they are running test loads that shoot better at 200 than I can at 100 in their backup rifle just messing around.

True and true.  It was not my intention to flame anyone, especially Motor1.... I respect his experience.

As is stated in my post, I am only an observer....never competed in anything for fame or money.  So I'm sitting back listening and hopefully learning.

In a similar thread on a bench rest shooter's site, there's a similar civil argument going......some, taking Motor's view, and on the other side many taking the newfangled view.  One guy even said that everyone in national competitions, these days are full length resizing....and many in long range shooting too.  He insinuated that local shoots were less inclined to change their time honored ways. I wouldn't know, but I'm sure such claims can be investigated.

Hope everyone here takes part in the interest of education, not just negative argument.  I find the subject interesting.  I learn something new every day....still, after all this time in the hobby.

Kaldor:  Thankyou for your last post.....I learned a lot of something news from that and the link too!

Rabidus:  Thanks for your thread.

No problem, I like reloading, especially the science side of it.  I work in an industry where problem solving and analyzing are a big deal, so it spills over into my hobbies.  I think about think like how ogives influence bullet jump, pressure curves caused by bearing surface length, powder burn rates appropriate for barrel lengths, etc.  I also think about how I can streamline a process to get better productivity while still maintaining a high level of quality and consistency.

We are all entitled to our own opinions, and Lord knows I can be an opinionated SOB sometimes.  What works for me, may not for you, but I always like hearing others viewpoints.  Out society has unfortunately moved past civil discussion on many subjects, at least we can find it here most of the time.

OMG, you could probably make a mint running a range out of that warehouse.

I saved a copy of it, will have to give it a good read sometime soon.

Kaldor.
Could be things are changing that wouldn't be very surprising. I competed in the late 1980s through the 90s. We actually had a full silhouette range at our club. Small bore right up through high power rifle. Just locally we an average of 20 people at Thursday evening practice many of these are personal friends of mine.

Every single one of these people used neck only sized brass.

You've made some very good points. For benchrest shooting I have no doubt it will make a difference. For our sport anything at or under 1MOA was sufficient and the method I described did that with ease. I don't know how many rounds are fired in a benchrest match but for silhouette it's about 60 including "zero checks" for a 40 round match. Then add another 40 or more on practice day. You can see where brass life and not annealing every time is desirable.

Motor

That's kinda where I'm at. If you neck size a few times and then shoulder bump every few firings you'll have that variation in case capacity.

I think it's better to use a FL bushing die and size the case minimally but consistently after each firing.

variation in case capacity.  Seen a GI test when there was 4% volume difference between Factory sized and fired on 5.56mm.  Has to be a lot more on larger cartridges.

That happens with either method.  I checked some factory Hornady brass against 1x and it was .008 shorter than my chamber.

My perspective on the topic -

Technology evolves.  When I first started reloading, neck sizing was the be-all and end-all.  The pinnacle was Wilson dies and an arbor press.   That was accompanied by 7/8" X 14 TPI dies that were neck-only dies.

Redding Type S Neck Sizing Dies came on the scene with user-selectable neck bushings, the sliding sleeve to control the case and a micrometer adjustment to control how much of the neck got sized.

This was accompanied by the introduction of their Competition Bullet Seater with the sliding sleeve to support the case and a micrometer top to facilitate changing OAL.  These were a fairly large improvement over standard dies.

I especially enjoy the micrometer top, as I use a lot of different bullet weights in my 260 and 308.

Shortly thereafter, the Redding Type S Full Length Sizing Dies came on the scene.  These gave all the control of the neck dies but added the benefit of being able to push the shoulder back.  They also allow the die to act as a body-only die, a neck-only die and as a decapper.  They can be used with and without an expander ball and can also use a carbide expander ball to eliminate lubing the inside of the case neck.

Now, wait!  That is a HUGE leap forward in the design, the technology, of a sizing die.

In the years after Redding's innovations, Forster and others have brought out similar products.  To the reloader, that is ALL GOOD.

Overlay that entire history with the switch to using higher quality bullets and the AR as the shooting platform, displacing bolt actions on the firing line for those who seek accuracy.  Recognize the greatly improved quality of the barrels and chambers we are getting even from high volume companies and you are looking serious accuracy improvements for the average Joe who reloads.

Is no one using neck sizing dies?  They probably are but there are other options that meet the needs of the average Joe who is limited by his shooting skill and is no longer limited by his rifle or his ammo.

That evolution is what I think killed the use of neck sizing dies.

I try stuff. I usually find that excellent ammo can be made using standard full length sizing dies without any downside. The secret is having the neck honed (Forster dies) so the neck only gets sized -.003" to -.004" smaller than the loaded round's measurement. This reduces work hardening of the brass, reduces friction when the expander removes internal imperfections and gives very little run-out.

I usually set my headspace dimension at SAAMI minimum -001". The only exception being my Winchester .300 Magnum. I bump the shoulder -.0015" to -.002" from the fired measurement and call it good.

I've settled on this approach after 35 years of experiments. It's more important to me nowadays that my ammo feeds and fits in every firearm I own and every firearm my family and friends own. Having universally usable ammo is more important than customizing every load for just one rifle. I buy quality bullets and let them be responsible for the accuracy factor.

My .308 bolt guns feed from the same trough as my M-1A's. My Winchester M70 shoots the same ammo as my semi-auto's. Logistics is important to me and simplicity is to.

Neck sized some creedmoor brass I shot out of my bolt action and the federal brass would not fit and 1/2 of my Hornady brass also did not fit .

Looks like I’ll only use the collet for dinged brass.