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Posted: 4/22/2004 1:37:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/21/2014 1:23:08 PM EDT by haLfLiFe]
I received a request for a tacked "how to thread."  As your intrepid and fearless servant I give unto thee a tacked thread.  Please share your experience and tips for obtaining a C&R for our fellow shooters.
Link Posted: 4/22/2004 8:00:12 PM EDT
If you want to learn from my mistake, be sure to fill out line 7 with your personal info, and send the Certification of Citizenship (an additional form). Get it right the first time and it'll save you many weeks of waiting.
Link Posted: 4/22/2004 11:31:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/23/2005 3:09:06 AM EDT by Leisure_Shoot]
OK, here's the basics... anyone else thinks of anything else, or notices any bad info or dead links, email me or IM me...

What is a C&R or Cruffler?
C&R is nothing more than a way to facilitate collecting.
You may have certain firearms shipped to your C&R FFL address, just like a FFL business.
The easy definition is firearms that are 50 years old or more.  
-There are also some collectible firearms allowed.
You can write to the ATF asking them to determine a firearm a C&R.  
-It looks a little difficult; requiring you to demonstrate why the firearm is collectible.
It is not a business.  
-It MAY NOT be a business or it will be taken away fom you.
If you can own a gun you can get a C&R license.
The ATF determines who may have a C&R.
-Cities have little to no say in whether you may get one.  
It does require you to keep a logbook.
-You must record EVERY C&R purchase.
You don't have to record non C&R firearms purchases in your C&R bound book.

Still interested?
Here are the forms you will need to fill out and where to send them

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________


Instructions for 5310 series forms
Because of legal reasons, and the requirement of fingerprint cards and photographs, the Form 7 cannot be posted on our site. To receive the application, along with the proper fingerprint cards, either go to the Distribution Center Order Form or call the Distribution Center at (703) 455-7801 and a packet will be sent to you via U.S. mail. If you e-mail your request, please provide your complete name and address address, the type of license you wish to apply for and a packet will be sent to you via U.S. mail.

7CR (5310.16) - Application for License (FFL)



Make sure you order this one from the list on the right: F 7CR (5310.16) - Application for License (Collector of Curios and Relics) Under 18 U.S.C. Chapter 44, Firearms

ATF Forms you will receive in your packet:

ATF application form F 7CR  If filling this out for yourself, you will use "Individual" or "Individual Collector" when it asks for position.  Fill out 2 copies of this one, as you need to send one to the ATF and one to your Chief Law Enforcement Officer.


ATF US Citizenship certification Form F 5330.20  If you are filling out the application as an individual collector, then you will be the person certifying yourself.    Add you Social Security Number to the document.

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Mail   your C&R Application and your US Citizenship Certification form, along with a money order for $30.00, to the ATF at:

Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms
P.O. Box 409567
Atlanta, Georgia 30384-9567



Mail   a copy of the application only, to your CLEO.  Include a letter like this:

Dear Chief/Sheriff X,

Enclosed please find, as per federal regulation, a copy of my ATF Form 7CR.  You are not required to take any action with respect to the enclosed form.  If I can be of any service, or if there are any questions, please do not hesitate to contact me at the address above.  Please be advised this is not a license to do business, but only a license to collect.

                                               Respectfully,
 

                                                Soon2B C&R Guy

Some suggest you include the sentence in blue, if you are concerned you CLEO will try to stop or harass your application.  Note, it is not up to the CLEO to accept or decline your application.  You are onlty required to send them a copy.  The ATF decides whether or not to issue the license.
It is also suggested you send this via certified mail.

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________

ATF phone number in Atlanta
-  (404) 417-2750 or 1-866-662-2750
    fax number is: (404) 417-2751 or 1-866-257-2749

Of course, after about 10 days, you'll need to call and find out just where the heck your license is.

Call this number and ask for the licensing dept.  
Tell them you are calling about the status of your C&R license.
They will then ask what state you are applying in, and transfer you to the person handling your license.  
That person almost never seems to answer the phone.
I was told they get about 100 apps per day.  I don't know if they meant per state or countrywide.
I'm sure that includes 01 and 03 FFL's.  
Link Posted: 4/26/2004 1:24:24 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/6/2004 10:37:45 AM EDT by Leisure_Shoot]
After you receive your C&R you must maintain a bound book to comply with ATF regs.
The best set up I've seen is a packet from:

RK ENTERPRISES
2616 LAS POSITAS RD
SANTA BARBARA, CA 93105
(805) 687-1416   FAX (805) 687-4565


Cost is $23.95 for the Curio & Relic Collector FFL Package

I recommend you purchase it before you fill out your ATF application,
as it gives you an idea of the paperwork you are required to maintain,
and how to fill out the various application questions.


Link Posted: 4/26/2004 4:52:15 AM EDT
i will definitly second contacting RK Enterprises. Outstanding helpful folks.
Link Posted: 4/30/2004 9:07:05 PM EDT
Just wondering.... If you have a C&R does it now allow ATF to stop by when ever they want and request to review your log book and inspect your collection?
Link Posted: 4/30/2004 9:17:55 PM EDT

Originally Posted By JThompson:
Just wondering.... If you have a C&R does it now allow ATF to stop by when ever they want and request to review your log book and inspect your collection?



No, they have to make an appointment, and you can goto THEIR office.




And just to start some trouble, you have to log EVERY C&R firearm you aquire while you are licensed in your bound book no matter how you get it. You do not "use" your licence, you "are licenced". Just like driving you don't "use" your licence only when someone asks for it, you are licenced to drive.
Link Posted: 4/30/2004 9:27:32 PM EDT
Quick google search for one of the few ATF letters on loggin C&Rs

Department of the Treasury
Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms
F: PD: FB: FT: nvc
AUG 10 1998

(inside address redacted)

Dear Mr. (redacted):

This is in response to your letter dated July 20, 1998, to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms. In your letter, you have inquired whether it is necessary to record the transfer of a curio or relic firearm in your acquisition and disposition records.

Please be advised that, in accordance with 27 CFR  178.125 (g), a licensed collector shall enter into a record each receipt and disposition of firearms curios or relics. Therefore, regardless of whether the curio or relic firearm was obtained using your collector's license, the acquisition must be entered into your records upon receipt. Accordingly, if you, as a licensed collector, dispose of a curio or relic firearm, the disposition also must be entered into your record book regardless of when it was obtained.

We trust the foregoing has been responsive to your request. Should you require additional information or have any questions, please contact us.

Sincerely yours,
(initialed) KRD
for Christopher M. Cuyler
Chief, Firearms Programs Division
Link Posted: 5/15/2004 1:14:54 PM EDT
Once you have sent your application in....

You will probably be chomping at the bit for the next 4 to 6 weeks. Use this time to your advantage. Start looking over the vendors list and addressing a couple envelopes a night. Include a letter notifying the vendor that you have enclosed a signed copy of your license and wish to be added to their mailing list as well as their e-mail list. Also request that you be informed of any future sales or promotions.

Do a few of these at a time and set them aside. When your license finally arrives, make several copies of it and sign them. DO NOT SIGN THE ORIGINAL LICENSE. Add the signed copies to the allready addressed envelopes along with the letters.

Trust me on this, you wont want to wait untill the last minute to start trying to address 50+ envelopes and get them sent off. Once you send the envelopes off you will once again be chomping at the bit, just waiting for all the catalogs to start showing up over the next 3 or 4 weeks.

One last piece of advice, keep a list of the vendors who have your license on file. That way you will know at a glance if a vendor has your stuff should you see a sale on something you want.

Have fun!
Link Posted: 5/17/2004 3:56:30 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/3/2011 10:09:04 PM EDT by Seth_Livzz]
Updated link to current forms and instructions on the ATF website:

http://www.atf.gov/forms/download/atf-f-5310-16-notice.html
Link Posted: 6/20/2004 8:20:18 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/20/2004 10:39:38 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/20/2004 10:42:52 PM EDT by Leisure_Shoot]
Yes. What a C&R does is allow you to have it mailed to your house from an out of state seller.
But, it can only be C&R eligible guns. (essentially, 50 yr old firearmss)
If you mean as a C&R holder can you buy as a private purchase and not log it as C&R, the general concensus is no, you must log all firearms into your C&R logbook regardless of how you purchase them.
Link Posted: 6/20/2004 11:10:04 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/20/2004 11:45:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/20/2004 11:51:12 PM EDT by Leisure_Shoot]
There are .pdf's of what is eligible.  Such things as special edition tommy guns and special edition newly made 1911's are on it.  I think evil black rifles might be a bit much though.  Are you asking if they are on it currently,or if you can petition them to have it added to the list.  I believe there is a process to do so.  This is behyond my knowledge... but I've seen it mentioned on other forums.

Here's a link to ATF site with the listed guns as of 2001 and the update file from 2001-current...
ATF C&R eligble firearms
Link Posted: 7/16/2004 5:07:13 AM EDT
Tagged
Link Posted: 8/18/2004 10:07:39 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Leisure_Shoot:
Yes. What a C&R does is allow you to have it mailed to your house from an out of state seller.
But, it can only be C&R eligible guns. (essentially, 50 yr old firearmss)
If you mean as a C&R holder can you buy as a private purchase and not log it as C&R, the general concensus is no, you must log all firearms into your C&R logbook regardless of how you purchase them.




What about C&R eligible firearms that were purchased PRIOR to obtaining a C&R FFL? Would such a firearm need to be logged for receipt even though the receipt of the firearm was prior to obtaining a C&R?

It makes sense that one would need to log such a firearm after disposing of it, but the receipt question is driving me nuts. F'ing ATF always making things so complicated.
Link Posted: 8/18/2004 10:57:16 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/5/2005 1:56:43 PM EDT by Leisure_Shoot]
It makes sense that you would need to log the prior ones, because otherwise you could buy some guns with your C&R and just claim you've had them since before you got the C&R.

You log previously owned guns only if you sell them.
Link Posted: 8/18/2004 11:02:58 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/14/2006 11:26:21 AM EDT by SHIVAN]
Link Posted: 8/18/2004 2:09:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By napalm:

Originally Posted By Leisure_Shoot:
Yes. What a C&R does is allow you to have it mailed to your house from an out of state seller.
But, it can only be C&R eligible guns. (essentially, 50 yr old firearmss)
If you mean as a C&R holder can you buy as a private purchase and not log it as C&R, the general concensus is no, you must log all firearms into your C&R logbook regardless of how you purchase them.




What about C&R eligible firearms that were purchased PRIOR to obtaining a C&R FFL? Would such a firearm need to be logged for receipt even though the receipt of the firearm was prior to obtaining a C&R?

It makes sense that one would need to log such a firearm after disposing of it, but the receipt question is driving me nuts. F'ing ATF always making things so complicated.






You must only log C&R activities you do "while licenced" if you did it before you were licenced it doesn't have to be in the book.

If you dispose of a C&R gun you got before you were licenced, and now you are licenced you log it in from yourself and out to whoever you sell it to.

Makes sense in an odd kind of way
Link Posted: 8/18/2004 9:07:02 PM EDT
How come I got a book for my non-C&R guns when I ordered from RK Enterprises?  
Do they just do that as an extra precaution?
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 1:10:01 PM EDT
Another stupid C&R question.

Since someone with a C&R FFL is the holder of an FFL, will a C&R holder be able to ship/receive C&R-eligible weapons to/from another C&R holder across state lines?
Link Posted: 8/30/2004 11:31:45 PM EDT
Do you have to be 18 or 21 to recieve a C&R license?
Link Posted: 9/9/2004 1:43:04 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/4/2004 11:53:59 AM EDT by Leisure_Shoot]
Looks like things have changed a little.
I've updated above to show where to get the forms.
Now they appear to need you to order it from them via phone or web request (no cost for them to send to you, apparently)
It also seems they need fingerprints, now.
I'm checking on that.


bad info on ATF site... disregard.
Link Posted: 9/10/2004 3:18:18 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Leisure_Shoot:
Looks like things have changed a little.
I've updated above to show where to get the forms.
Now they appear to need you to order it from them via phone or web request (no cost for them to send to you, apparently)
It also seems they need fingerprints, now.
I'm checking on that.



I requested my forms and received them today (9/10/04). I got 2 full copies of the ATF F 7CR Application for Licence (Collector of Curios and Relics) and F 5330.20 Certification of Compliance with 18 U.S.C. 922(g)(5)(B). I DID NOT receive any fingerprint cards. The instructions on the back do not mention any requirement for fingerprints.

BTW, the form is now 2 copies of  F 7CR bound together, one is marked on the bottom COPY 1 ATF COPY the other is marked COPY 2 CLEO.

TowlieMatrix
Link Posted: 9/10/2004 3:27:17 PM EDT
I just got my C&R a few weeks ago, and I did not submit fingerprints.

The regs may have changed very recently ...


Link Posted: 9/10/2004 5:06:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/10/2004 6:24:44 PM EDT by Leisure_Shoot]

Originally Posted By TowlieMatrix:
I requested my forms and received them today (9/10/04). I got 2 full copies of the ATF F 7CR Application for Licence (Collector of Curios and Relics) and F 5330.20 Certification of Compliance with 18 U.S.C. 922(g)(5)(B). I DID NOT receive any fingerprint cards. The instructions on the back do not mention any requirement for fingerprints.

BTW, the form is now 2 copies of  F 7CR bound together, one is marked on the bottom COPY 1 ATF COPY the other is marked COPY 2 CLEO.

TowlieMatrix



Perhaps they just list the same info for FFL 01 and FFL 03?
I don't know... do you get fingerprinted for FFL 01?
Link Posted: 9/15/2004 5:58:53 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/22/2004 3:49:42 PM EDT by BlackDog714]
tagged...  I just sent off to receive my app today

Edited to add that I got my app today...  Do I have to actually send the 2nd copy to the CLEO or just a letter?  
Link Posted: 9/22/2004 3:30:14 AM EDT
tagged
Link Posted: 10/1/2004 2:22:20 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/1/2004 2:27:48 AM EDT by JTChance]

Originally Posted By Seth_Livzz:
Here's a link for the change of address form 5300.38 in .pdf format

5300.38



Has anyone gone through a change of address? Do I need to send my original license? Do I ignore questions that are business related

Edit: It's late, what can I say. Just found a very recent thread answering my question.
Link Posted: 10/1/2004 2:25:00 AM EDT
The ATF returned my call regarding my C&R license (it took them nearly a month from dsposit of my check to "processing" my paperwork)  and I asked them about fingerprints being necessary for a C&R license.. their response:

FINGERPRINTS ARE NOT NEEDED FOR C&R LICENSES!

However, some field offices are sending them out with the C&R application.. she could not give an answer as to why.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 11:35:54 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/4/2004 11:54:58 AM EDT by Leisure_Shoot]
I got my application, which I requested from the ATF, on their new web page.
It is pretty easy to order, and nicely done.
No fingerprint paperwork comes with it.
Fear not, lowly government subjects.
They simply need to update their description of the packet.
Link Posted: 10/9/2004 5:37:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/9/2004 5:48:49 PM EDT by Va_Dinger]
I just received my forms today and attempting to fill them out.  I have a couple of questions.

(1.) In section 10. of the form do I just fill in my CLEO + his address or leave it blank?
(2.) In section 11. is that my signature or my CLEO?


Sorry if these are stupid questions, but I just want to be sure. I watched a friends SBR paperwork take almost a year becuase he screwed up his paperwork.
Link Posted: 10/12/2004 3:12:57 PM EDT
My paperwork went out this morning. Thanks for the great thread.
Link Posted: 12/1/2004 7:50:49 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/1/2011 12:15:36 PM EDT by thedoctors308]
...
Link Posted: 12/6/2004 1:25:45 PM EDT
its 21 for the C&R
Link Posted: 12/21/2004 2:30:17 PM EDT
I sent my application 11-23, called today .  They said it was approved just before I called.  I should see it in the mail by next week.  I can hardly wait to send an order off to Brownells.
Link Posted: 12/27/2004 5:33:33 PM EDT
Yippee!  It's here!  But . . . only 11 of the 12 letters in my last name are on it.  Big deal or not?
Link Posted: 12/27/2004 5:46:11 PM EDT
tagged
Link Posted: 1/1/2005 8:12:09 PM EDT

Originally Posted By BlammO:
Yippee!  It's here!  But . . . only 11 of the 12 letters in my last name are on it.  Big deal or not?



I don't know the answer, but if it were me, I would call them and ask the question.
My guess is that if they wanted to, they could make trouble for you if the licence is not in your name.

it should just be a case of them sending out a corrected copy.
Link Posted: 1/2/2005 12:28:19 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/6/2005 9:06:24 PM EDT by BlammO]
The person who handles this sort of thing is not returning calls this week -- presumably out for the holidays.  I'll try on Monday.

ETA 1/6/2005:  Got through on the phone and a new license is on its way.  That was as easy as it could be!
Link Posted: 1/2/2005 2:24:37 AM EDT
Tagged......... Thanks for the info!
Link Posted: 1/6/2005 12:53:31 PM EDT
 

 Thanks Yall.  After readin this, i ordered the Forms from the ATF website. Waitin on em to get here
Link Posted: 1/7/2005 2:02:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/8/2005 9:59:09 AM EDT by Brad-Man]
I just got my forms.  There is now provision for using a credit card to pay the fee.

The form is different (revised in Oct or Nov. '04)

When I called in to question a boxon the form, they didn't even have a copy themselves!

By the way, they instructed me to put 'private collection' in the box along with my SSN.
Link Posted: 1/24/2005 11:39:53 AM EDT
Tagged!

BigDozer66
Link Posted: 1/25/2005 3:31:49 PM EDT
I just mailed mine this afternoon.  
Link Posted: 2/2/2005 8:12:39 PM EDT
Just received mine today - mailed in 1/7/05.  I live in Marietta, GA
Link Posted: 2/4/2005 12:23:00 AM EDT
Link Posted: 2/7/2005 11:14:32 PM EDT
Sent mine out on 1/17/05 and got my C&R FFL today 02/07/05
Link Posted: 2/9/2005 2:07:23 PM EDT
Hmm.  Sent mine out December 31 and no word yet.  Guess I need to call to check.
Link Posted: 2/21/2005 8:45:15 AM EDT
I ordered my C&R application last week, and got it the other day.  I recieved the Certification of Compliance with 18 U.S.C. but the actual C&R application was backordered.  I'm going to go ahead and fill out the form I did recieve but I'm not sure of what they are asking for.  On the citizenship form line 1 and 2, name under which application was filed, that would be myself?  And line 2, anme of person certifying citizenship, that would be my name as well?  I want to make sure to get it right the first time.  The Dr.
Link Posted: 3/2/2005 5:56:02 PM EDT
I'm waiting for my backordered forms from BATFE.  One quick question -- since C&R doesn't license you as a dealer, how do you handle it when you sell an item?  Do fill out a 4473 or treat it like a private party sale and log it in your bound book?

Also, I know you're not allowed to use it for business purposes, but if a gun appreciates in value between acquisition and disposal, are you allowed to sell for a profit?

Thanks,
SC
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