User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 1/11/2021 1:10:55 PM EDT
[#1]
Is the MG in your family trust?
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/11/2021 1:13:29 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Is the MG in your family trust? Quote HistoryQuoted: Is the MG in your family trust? Pretty sure OP is saying that he has an existing family trust in NV and someone in Texas, who is a C&R holder, wants to gift him a MG. OP, where do you currently reside? If the MG is in Texas, then it would be a stamp to a FFL in your state and then a stamp to your trust (as far as I understand it) What if I already have the MG in my state? Then you are unlawfully possessing a NFA item. Below is the NRS code. This doesn't even take into account what the ATF would do. NRS 202.350 Manufacture, importation, possession or use of dangerous weapon or silencer; carrying concealed weapon without permit; penalties; issuance of permit to carry concealed weapon; exceptions. [Effective January 1, 2020.] 1. Except as otherwise provided in this section and NRS 202.3653 to 202.369, inclusive, a person within this State shall not: (b) Manufacture or cause to be manufactured, or import into the State, or keep, offer or expose for sale, or give, lend, possess or use a machine gun or a silencer, unless authorized by federal law; 2. Except as otherwise provided in NRS 202.275 and 212.185, a person who violates any of the provisions of: (b) Paragraph (b) of subsection 1 or subparagraph (1) or (3) of paragraph (d) of subsection 1 is guilty of a category C felony and shall be punished as provided in NRS 193.130. NRS 193.130 (c) A category C felony is a felony for which a court shall sentence a convicted person to imprisonment in the state prison for a minimum term of not less than 1 year and a maximum term of not more than 5 years. In addition to any other penalty, the court may impose a fine of not more than $10,000, unless a greater fine is authorized or required by statute. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/11/2021 2:40:59 PM EDT
[#3]
Sorry, I must have done a poor job of explaining.
I am listed in the trust, but do not administer the NV trust. My father owns and deals with the family trust. I live in TX, and I am signed off to have the MG here with me, along with a transport letter. I have my own trust, but this item is not in it. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/11/2021 2:54:51 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I am on the family trust based in NV, and I am being gifted a MG in TX,. The current owner is a C&R, as well as the MG.. Is it a 2 tax stamp processes, and does it need to be transferred through different ffls in each state? What if I already have the MG in my state? Quote HistoryQuoted: I am on the family trust based in NV, and I am being gifted a MG in TX,. The current owner is a C&R, as well as the MG.. Is it a 2 tax stamp processes, and does it need to be transferred through different ffls in each state? What if I already have the MG in my state? Quoted: Sorry, I must have done a poor job of explaining. I am listed in the trust, but do not administer the NV trust. My father owns and deals with the family trust. I live in TX, and I am signed off to have the MG here with me, along with a transport letter. I have my own trust, but this item is not in it. Who actually owns the MG? |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/11/2021 3:11:38 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Who actually owns the MG? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I am on the family trust based in NV, and I am being gifted a MG in TX,. The current owner is a C&R, as well as the MG.. Is it a 2 tax stamp processes, and does it need to be transferred through different ffls in each state? What if I already have the MG in my state? Quoted: Sorry, I must have done a poor job of explaining. I am listed in the trust, but do not administer the NV trust. My father owns and deals with the family trust. I live in TX, and I am signed off to have the MG here with me, along with a transport letter. I have my own trust, but this item is not in it. Who actually owns the MG? The trust in NV, which is administered by my father. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/11/2021 3:34:13 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The trust in NV, which is administered by my father. Ok, and what is your role with regards to the trust? Are you a trustee of some sort or a beneficiary? |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/12/2021 9:35:04 AM EDT
[#7]
I am a special trustee, and the trust allows me to have possession. The letter has been written up by the lawyer who helped build the trust. I have my own trust with my NFA items and that trust isn't written up like one used for the Vickers MK1(the MG I have been referring to).
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/12/2021 12:02:18 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: (From previous post) I live in TX, and I am signed off to have the MG here with me, along with a transport letter. I am a special trustee, and the trust allows me to have possession. The letter has been written up by the lawyer who helped build the trust. I have my own trust with my NFA items and that trust isn't written up like one used for the Vickers MK1(the MG I have been referring to). Ok, and do you have an approved 5320.20 to transport the firearm interstate? |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/12/2021 3:52:22 PM EDT
[#9]
Yes, but I am not sure why it matters when it comes to the question of whether this is a 2 tax stamp or 1 stamp transfer.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/12/2021 4:29:22 PM EDT
[#10]
There is a lot of confusion here on exactly what you are trying to do.
Are you trying to take possession with the Vickers remaining on the family trust OR are you trying to transfer the Vickers from the family trust to your trust? The answer is very different between the two scenarios. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/12/2021 5:48:56 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yes, but I am not sure why it matters when it comes to the question of whether this is a 2 tax stamp or 1 stamp transfer. Because i'm trying to cover all the bases here. Your explanations as to what you are trying to do have varied and lack some information. You stated previously that you had a "transport letter" and that a letter was written up by a lawyer that did the initial trust. Neither one of those describes a 5320.20, so i'm making sure that is covered first. Also, since you have an approved 5320.20, was it for a temporary transport to be returned to the original registration address or was it for a permanent move? |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/12/2021 7:55:57 PM EDT
[#12]
Quoted: I am on the family trust based in NV, and I am being gifted a MG in TX,. The current owner is a C&R, as well as the MG.. Is it a 2 tax stamp processes, and does it need to be transferred through different ffls in each state? What if I already have the MG in my state? Sounded more like his dad owns the MG on his trust (aka family trust) The son (6172crew) is on that trust. He reported it to the ATF that he transported it to TX, with an approval . The dad is a C&R holder. The MG is a C&R MG. Sounds like he wants to know if he has to do 2 stamp process to get it to be owned by him.. ie stamp 1 to get from father to a FFL in TX, and then another stamp to get if from FFL to his trust/individual Form 4. Question is if OP is a C&R holder.. I think it is a 1 stamp process if he is, but don't deal with interstate C&R transfers. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/12/2021 9:07:13 PM EDT
[#13]
If the gun is owned by a TX C&R holder, and is being transferred to the NV based trust you are part of, it first has to go to a NV FFL. Trusts cant be C&R holders.....so it's tax paid
Once it transfers from the NV FFL to the NV trust, you get to do a 5320.20 to take it to TX 2 stamp transfer + 5320.20 You can't legally just take possession of it in TX if it is being transferred to a NV based trust |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/12/2021 9:41:02 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If the gun is owned by a TX C&R holder, and is being transferred to the NV based trust you are part of, it first has to go to a NV FFL. Trusts cant be C&R holders.....so it's tax paid Once it transfers from the NV FFL to the NV trust, you get to do a 5320.20 to take it to TX 2 stamp transfer + 5320.20 You can't legally just take possession of it in TX if it is being transferred to a NV based trust Apparently, from the mid thread update, the trust owns the MG already. From subsequent updates we have found that OP already has the MG and an approved 5320.20. The question now is what is OP trying to do with it? The assumption is that he is trying to transfer it from the family trust to his own personal trust, but we are waiting for an update. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/12/2021 11:29:27 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Apparently, from the mid thread update, the trust owns the MG already. From subsequent updates we have found that OP already has the MG and an approved 5320.20. The question now is what is OP trying to do with it? The assumption is that he is trying to transfer it from the family trust to his own personal trust, but we are waiting for an update. Sometimes life is only as complicated as you choose to make it..... I'm out.....all my NFA stuff is registered to me as an individual.....and has been for 25+ years Maybe the OP should contact the person(s) who convinced him/them that a trust was the way to go ..... |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/13/2021 8:51:03 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Sounded more like his dad owns the MG on his trust (aka family trust) The son (6172crew) is on that trust. He reported it to the ATF that he transported it to TX, with an approval . The dad is a C&R holder. The MG is a C&R MG. Sounds like he wants to know if he has to do 2 stamp process to get it to be owned by him.. ie stamp 1 to get from father to a FFL in TX, and then another stamp to get if from FFL to his trust/individual Form 4. Question is if OP is a C&R holder.. I think it is a 1 stamp process if he is, but don't deal with interstate C&R transfers. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I am on the family trust based in NV, and I am being gifted a MG in TX,. The current owner is a C&R, as well as the MG.. Is it a 2 tax stamp processes, and does it need to be transferred through different ffls in each state? What if I already have the MG in my state? Sounded more like his dad owns the MG on his trust (aka family trust) The son (6172crew) is on that trust. He reported it to the ATF that he transported it to TX, with an approval . The dad is a C&R holder. The MG is a C&R MG. Sounds like he wants to know if he has to do 2 stamp process to get it to be owned by him.. ie stamp 1 to get from father to a FFL in TX, and then another stamp to get if from FFL to his trust/individual Form 4. Question is if OP is a C&R holder.. I think it is a 1 stamp process if he is, but don't deal with interstate C&R transfers. I am not a FFL, but you are correct about everything. The batfe lady says 2 stamps, and we think it is 1. Why would I send it back to our ffl in NV, so she can send it back out to my FFL in TX? |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/13/2021 8:54:09 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If the gun is owned by a TX C&R holder, and is being transferred to the NV based trust you are part of, it first has to go to a NV FFL. Trusts cant be C&R holders.....so it's tax paid Once it transfers from the NV FFL to the NV trust, you get to do a 5320.20 to take it to TX 2 stamp transfer + 5320.20 You can't legally just take possession of it in TX if it is being transferred to a NV based trust Got it backwards, but I think I am following you. The NV trust which owns the vickers is not a FFL, even though it is temp with me in TX, it would need to be returned to start the first of 2 stamps in order to get her transferred to me? Then I can get another transport letter and go get it? |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/13/2021 8:59:13 AM EDT
[#18]
Hope this helps.
Vickers owned by family trust based in NV I am a special trustee and able to transport/use Vickers I put in for the transport letter and have it currently in TX Dad says "I want to gift Vickers to you, lets find out the proper way to do it so it doesn't cause problems." I called ATF and did not mention the truster is a FFL, but she did say it needs to hit 2 FFLs, 1 in NV, then TX, then me. I start a thread and confused the dog shit out of everyone who browses arfcom. You're welcome, just ringing in the new year with more 2020 bs. 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/13/2021 9:01:26 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Sometimes life is only as complicated as you choose to make it..... I'm out.....all my NFA stuff is registered to me as an individual.....and has been for 25+ years Maybe the OP should contact the person(s) who convinced him/them that a trust was the way to go ..... Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Apparently, from the mid thread update, the trust owns the MG already. From subsequent updates we have found that OP already has the MG and an approved 5320.20. The question now is what is OP trying to do with it? The assumption is that he is trying to transfer it from the family trust to his own personal trust, but we are waiting for an update. Sometimes life is only as complicated as you choose to make it..... I'm out.....all my NFA stuff is registered to me as an individual.....and has been for 25+ years Maybe the OP should contact the person(s) who convinced him/them that a trust was the way to go ..... Whats worse is I have half my NFA stuff in a trust I administer and half personally owned. I started the trust but wondering if its worth it in the end. 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/13/2021 11:17:07 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Hope this helps. Vickers owned by family trust based in NV I am a special trustee and able to transport/use Vickers I put in for the transport letter and have it currently in TX Dad says "I want to gift Vickers to you, lets find out the proper way to do it so it doesn't cause problems." I called ATF and did not mention the truster is a FFL, but she did say it needs to hit 2 FFLs, 1 in NV, then TX, then me. I start a thread and confused the dog shit out of everyone who browses arfcom. You're welcome, just ringing in the new year with more 2020 bs. Alright, i get where you are and what you are trying to do. I say make it as simple as possible. You have legal access to the gun and possession. At this point I would not transfer it to your trust unless there is someone you want to have access to it while you are not around. Have you dad update the trust saying upon dis death, the Vickers goes to you. When he dies, the Vickers will transfer tax free to you on a form 5. The only thing I am not sure of, hopefully someone like BigWaylon will be able to chime in, is how to tell the ATF that the Vickers is now permanently in Tx. I am not sure if that is another 5320.20 with the current and permanent address as yours with the box checked that it is not going back to N.V. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/13/2021 12:01:49 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Alright, i get where you are and what you are trying to do. I say make it as simple as possible. You have legal access to the gun and possession. At this point I would not transfer it to your trust unless there is someone you want to have access to it while you are not around. Have you dad update the trust saying upon dis death, the Vickers goes to you. When he dies, the Vickers will transfer tax free to you on a form 5. The only thing I am not sure of, hopefully someone like BigWaylon will be able to chime in, is how to tell the ATF that the Vickers is now permanently in Tx. I am not sure if that is another 5320.20 with the current and permanent address as yours with the box checked that it is not going back to N.V. This is why I was wondering whether the approved 5320.20 has it listed as a temporary transport to be returned to the original address or a permanent move. As I understand it, and @BigWaylon might need to clarify: Scenario 1: If the 5320.20 lists a temporary transport to TX, the the firearm would need to be returned to NV. Once in NV, the father would have to file a form 4 and transfer the MG to a FFL in TX. Once the firearm reaches the FFL in Texas, the MG would be transferred from the FFL to OP on another Form 4. This would be two stamps. Scenario 2: If the 5320.20 lists a permanent move to TX, the firearm would not need to be returned to NV. The new registered address in the NFRTR is in Texas. The father would still have to sign the form, unless the son has permission to sell and dispose of items within the trust. This would be a form 4 from the family trust to the sons trust. Only 1 stamp and does not have to go back to NV. Scenario 3: The beneficiary route works, but it sounds like the father might be wanting the MG off the trust sooner rather than later. I may be mistaken though, this have been a very convoluted thread. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/13/2021 12:36:16 PM EDT
[#22]
I’m not going to try to answer everything, as I’m not 100% sure. And I haven’t read the whole thread word for word. But as I understand it there’s an MG registered to a trust. The person asking the questions is a trustee of said trust. They would like to transfer it to a different trust. Assuming that’s all correct:
1. Transfer the MG using a 5320.20 from the address of record to the state where it’s going to end up, and it is legally in the possession of the OP. 2. File a Form 4 from the current trust to the new trust, and since OP is the transferor and transferee, he maintains possession the whole time. It seems that simple to me...or did I miss something? Admittedly, what I’m not 100% confident in answering is how a temporary travel 5320.20 would impact the situation. And there’s no need for any FFL to be involved, much less two like the ATF apparently said. (And I don’t know enough about C&R to offer anything on that topic) |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/13/2021 12:36:21 PM EDT
[#23]
There are some things that people are saying that are confusing.. These are the paths I believe you can do:
If you are NOT a FFL there are 2 scenarios: 1. Need to have your dad transfer the machine gun to a FFL with a SOT in NV (1-5 months) on a Form 4. They would then need to do a Form 3 and transfer it to a TX FFL (2-4 weeks). Then it would transfer to you on a Form 4 (4-12 months). 2. Need to have your dad transfer the machine gun to a FFL with a SOT in TX (1-5 months) on a Form 4. (Yes you can transfer a MG to out of state FFL, I just did this 4 months ago) Then it would transfer to you on a Form 4 (4-12 months). Option 2 would be faster ------------- If you are a C&R FFL: This one I'm not as clear but I believe you can have a C&R Machinegun transfer to you directly from your father on a Form 4. C&R MG can be shipped directly to a out of state C&R FFL. https://onlygunsandmoney.com/2020/07/15/a-machine-gun-on-your-cr-license.html#:~:text=Once%20it%20is%20approved%2C%20however,file%2F128116%2Fdownload |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/13/2021 12:45:14 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I’m not going to try to answer everything, as I’m not 100% sure. And I haven’t read the whole thread word for word. But as I understand it there’s an MG registered to a trust. The person asking the questions is a trustee of said trust. They would like to transfer it to a different trust. Assuming that’s all correct: 1. Transfer the MG using a 5320.20 from the address of record to the state where it’s going to end up, and it is legally in the possession of the OP. 2. File a Form 4 from the current trust to the new trust, and since OP is the transferor and transferee, he maintains possession the whole time. It seems that simple to me...or did I miss something? Admittedly, what I’m not 100% confident in answering is how a temporary travel 5320.20 would impact the situation. And there’s no need for any FFL to be involved, much less two like the ATF apparently said. (And I don’t know enough about C&R to offer anything on that topic) That was my thought as well, especially if the 5320.20 listed it as a permanent change. Then a form 4 from trust to trust would be possible. Also, i would forget about the C&R stuff since the C&R holder does not currently own the machine gun, the trust does. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/13/2021 2:09:49 PM EDT
[#25]
I see now why everyone was asking about the transport form, and why it was important. We had a death in the family yesterday and I wasn't able to talk with the ol' man about it but I think getting it permanently moved to TX might be the easiest thing to do. I haven't asked why he wants to transfer the MG, but he did mention biden at one point. His trust has some very expensive pieces in it and maybe he is wanting to sell them off, and delete the trust but if not then I will see if keeping it as it is might be the best. Obviously I will also need to change the transport from a annually updated document to permeant.
Thanks, gents! I joined as team member so my avatar is changed, nothing else. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/14/2021 12:49:55 PM EDT
[#26]
Wanted to thank everyone for the help, the batfe person agrees, I can do the form 4 on my own as a special trustee and no need to go back to NV to have it transfer between 2 different ffls. Since I already have it, I just need to pay the stamp from the trust to me (or my trust).
Thanks again for the guidance. S/F |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/14/2021 6:21:33 PM EDT
[#27]
Glad you got that worked out OP. Enjoy your Vickers, I was looking at one yesterday at my lgs. I have no interest in buying one but, since you posted about it I took a quick look.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/15/2021 4:33:18 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Wanted to thank everyone for the help, the batfe person agrees, I can do the form 4 on my own as a special trustee and no need to go back to NV to have it transfer between 2 different ffls. Since I already have it, I just need to pay the stamp from the trust to me (or my trust). Thanks again for the guidance. S/F So even though your in a different state, but a trustee.. you can do a Form 4? Nice. Never knew that one. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/15/2021 12:19:38 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So even though your in a different state, but a trustee.. you can do a Form 4? Nice. Never knew that one. That is why it depends on the 5320.20 and whether it is listed as a permanent move. The registered owner is still the trust, but the registered address would be in Texas. Form 4 direct from trust to trust across state lines is prohibited, as you know, but the MG now permanently resides in TX so you wouldn't be crossing state lines. If there wasn't a 5320.20, you could theoretically just file a permanent one and then do the form 4 after it was approved. This is the same thing when you move with NFA items. You file a 5320.20 for all applicable items but you retain the same trust. The only thing you would have to check is whether the trust complies with the laws of the new state that you are moving to. Once you move, the new registered address is the new home and you can sell direct to people in the new state on a form 4. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/15/2021 12:26:10 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That is why it depends on the 5320.20 and whether it is listed as a permanent move. The registered owner is still the trust, but the registered address would be in Texas. Form 4 direct from trust to trust across state lines is prohibited, as you know, but the MG now permanently resides in TX so you wouldn't be crossing state lines. If there wasn't a 5320.20, you could theoretically just file a permanent one and then do the form 4 after it was approved. This is the same thing when you move with NFA items. You file a 5320.20 for all applicable items but you retain the same trust. The only thing you would have to check is whether the trust complies with the laws of the new state that you are moving to. Once you move, the new registered address is the new home and you can sell direct to people in the new state on a form 4. Oh that makes sense now. |
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
