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Link Posted: 5/8/2020 7:58:10 AM EDT
[#1]
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Originally Posted By kymarkh:

Doesnt have to be an sbr to be a fun gun and folks cant help but grin after they run a mag.  Its not my HD or go to war gun but its fun as hell and is pretty darn accurate out to 100 or so.
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I don't get all the snobbery on the SBR thing. I think the PS90 is fine just the way it is. I believe I will be using it as my HD gun due to capacity if nothing else. I have a holster coming for my 5.7 pistol & will try that for my EDC pistol as well.
Link Posted: 5/8/2020 5:42:53 PM EDT
[#2]
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Quoted:
I don't get all the snobbery on the SBR thing. I think the PS90 is fine just the way it is. I believe I will be using it as my HD gun due to capacity if nothing else.
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Not trying to be snobby, but you may not realize the difference. Try a short one and see for yourself.
It makes a big difference inside a house, around hallways, getting in/out of vehicles, etc.

The whole purpose of the 5.7mm cartridge is the resulting compactness of the weapon. If you don't have a compact weapon then you might as well be firing 5.56mm, since it offers superior performance and is less expensive. You could stick a D60 mag in any AR and have 10 rounds over the PS90.
Link Posted: 5/8/2020 6:49:28 PM EDT
[#3]
Link Posted: 5/8/2020 6:53:31 PM EDT
[#4]
Link Posted: 5/8/2020 8:49:46 PM EDT
[#5]
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Originally Posted By KitBuilder:
Not trying to be snobby, but you may not realize the difference. Try a short one and see for yourself.
It makes a big difference inside a house, around hallways, getting in/out of vehicles, etc.
View Quote




I have an AR pistol, so I get your whole point & don't disagree with your premise.

But for *me*, the $200 SBR tax stamp isn't worth the time nor money, IMO.
Link Posted: 5/9/2020 12:23:55 AM EDT
[#6]
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Originally Posted By KitBuilder:
The whole purpose of the 5.7mm cartridge is the resulting compactness of the weapon. If you don't have a compact weapon then you might as well be firing 5.56mm, since it offers superior performance
View Quote


@KitBuilder nailed it.

The P90 was designed as an alternative to compact 9mm subguns. If left with a rifle length platform, choose a rifle cartridge.
Link Posted: 5/9/2020 4:49:02 AM EDT
[#7]
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Originally Posted By xwinder:

@KitBuilder nailed it. 

The P90 was designed as an alternative to compact 9mm subguns. If left with a rifle length platform, choose a rifle cartridge.
View Quote




There are those of us whom neither want nor wish to tolerate the muzzle blast from a "rifle cartridge". The 5.7 is much, much more pleasant to shoot from a short barrel than the .223 is.
Link Posted: 5/9/2020 8:09:23 AM EDT
[#8]
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Originally Posted By BobCole:
There are those of us whom neither want nor wish to tolerate the muzzle blast from a "rifle cartridge". The 5.7 is much, much more pleasant to shoot from a short barrel than the .223 is.
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Agree 100%. The SBR PS90 is an excellent shooter. For a 16” gun there are better options.
Link Posted: 5/9/2020 12:50:33 PM EDT
[#9]
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Originally Posted By backbencher:
Why not a CMMG Banshee or Diamondback that takes your existing pistol mags?  I have an AR57 upper, expensive ammo that doesn't approach .223.  If you want a PS90 b/c it looks cool, rock on.
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There are quite a few reasons actually. But ill be honest. #1 is the top reason.

#1 ps90 is the coolest looking gun on the face of the earth and i always wanted one.

#2 there is almost zero recoil and more importantly very little gas in my face (left hand shooter). ALL other sbr/pistol 223/556 i have shot are Horrible as a leftie

#3 its downward ejecting. Very nice for left handed shooter. Especially for bullpups.

#4 when sbr'ed its about 21"!!! Tiny little thing. And it still hold 50rds.

#5 i have a couple 10" ar15s. They are LOUD and create a fire ball. I would never shoot them indoors. I actually dont shoot them because its so unpleasant. And they are still way longer then my ps90 sbr.

Unless your a left handed shooter and have never had to deal with hot bras and gas and debris in your face you probably wont understand. It sucks BAD.

I was picking up magazines for 23-25 a pop but tge price just went up to 39. Not sure why.
Link Posted: 5/10/2020 12:36:43 AM EDT
[#10]
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Originally Posted By BobCole:




There are those of us whom neither want nor wish to tolerate the muzzle blast from a "rifle cartridge". The 5.7 is much, much more pleasant to shoot from a short barrel than the .223 is.
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Originally Posted By BobCole:
Originally Posted By xwinder:

@KitBuilder nailed it. 

The P90 was designed as an alternative to compact 9mm subguns. If left with a rifle length platform, choose a rifle cartridge.




There are those of us whom neither want nor wish to tolerate the muzzle blast from a "rifle cartridge". The 5.7 is much, much more pleasant to shoot from a short barrel than the .223 is.


Why not just get the 10/22 stock that looks like a PS90 then?

I love my PS90, I bought it for the design and looks, yet I knew I would SBR it ASAP.
Link Posted: 5/10/2020 8:38:04 AM EDT
[#11]
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Originally Posted By mjrowley:

Why not just get the 10/22 stock that looks like a PS90 then?
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Originally Posted By mjrowley:

Why not just get the 10/22 stock that looks like a PS90 then?


Because I neither wanted one nor do I want a Ruger in any way?


I love my PS90, I bought it for the design and looks, yet I knew I would SBR it ASAP.



Good for you, sir. What does that have to do with ME in ANY way?  
Link Posted: 5/15/2020 11:10:37 PM EDT
[#12]
You will want to go through ammo like crap through a goose. I have taken mine to shoot twice in the last couple months. 350 rds went bye-bye like it was nothing.

With 5.7 there is good ammo and there is cheap (admittedly, relatively) ammo. There is no good cheap ammo.
Link Posted: 5/16/2020 11:18:41 PM EDT
[#13]
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Originally Posted By strider98:

With 5.7 there is good ammo and there is cheap (admittedly, relatively) ammo. There is no good cheap ammo.
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Yeah, I've heard that.  


Wonder why PMC or Aguila hasn't come out with a 5.7 loading yet?
Link Posted: 5/16/2020 11:45:46 PM EDT
[#14]
5.7 is apparently really sensitive to powder variations, so it would need a higher level of precision, meaning higher costs.
Link Posted: 5/17/2020 12:49:38 PM EDT
[#15]
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Originally Posted By BobCole:



Yeah, I've heard that.   


Wonder why PMC or Aguila hasn't come out with a 5.7 loading yet?
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I want to know where the Speer GoldDot is...
Link Posted: 5/17/2020 1:52:07 PM EDT
[#16]
Its a cool little gun when sbr’d....its just too expensive to feed so mine just sits on the wall looking cool. Ive taken it out on occasion hunting varmints at close range though. Ive had several over the years and sold them all but kept the sbr.
Link Posted: 5/17/2020 8:40:59 PM EDT
[#17]
I read most of the thread so forgive if me if this has been answered.

I want a PS90 bigly.

I will immediately SBR it. Can I do this myself or do I need to send it to someone? What parts do I need?

What’s the difference between Gen I and Gen II and how do I know I’m getting a Gen 2 if it doesn’t say so?
Link Posted: 5/17/2020 9:34:16 PM EDT
[#18]
Urban sling is a must

Attachment Attached File
Link Posted: 5/17/2020 10:34:01 PM EDT
[#19]
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Originally Posted By amediocreshooter:
I read most of the thread so forgive if me if this has been answered. 

I want a PS90 bigly. 

I will immediately SBR it. Can I do this myself or do I need to send it to someone? What parts do I need? 

What’s the difference between Gen I and Gen II and how do I know I’m getting a Gen 2 if it doesn’t say so?
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Gen 1 will have a black triggerpack. Gen 2 will be gray with a black hammer.


For SBR. Yes you can do it yourself. There's videos on youtube how to.

1.) E-file Form 1
2.) Engrave Receiver

Once you get your paperwork,

3.) For the barrel, you have options.
-Buy a real p90 barrel (expensive)
-Buy a CMMG barrel
-Remove the original barrel to be cut down and threaded

You can either drill the pin out to unscrew the shroud, or you can simply hacksaw it behind the threads and it pulls right off.

4.) Same with the muzzle attachment, there options
-Gen 1 original flash hider
-Gen 2 AR15 type birdcage
-Thread adapter
Link Posted: 5/18/2020 7:14:19 AM EDT
[#20]
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How does the front of the sling attach, please?
Link Posted: 5/18/2020 9:22:11 AM EDT
[#21]
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Originally Posted By GrimesSU:


Gen 1 will have a black triggerpack. Gen 2 will be gray with a black hammer.


For SBR. Yes you can do it yourself. There's videos on youtube how to.

1.) E-file Form 1
2.) Engrave Receiver

Once you get your paperwork,

3.) For the barrel, you have options. 
-Buy a real p90 barrel (expensive)
-Buy a CMMG barrel
-Remove the original barrel to be cut down and threaded

You can either drill the pin out to unscrew the shroud, or you can simply hacksaw it behind the threads and it pulls right off.

4.) Same with the muzzle attachment, there options
-Gen 1 original flash hider
-Gen 2 AR15 type birdcage
-Thread adapter
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Thanks.

I’m familiar with Form 1s. No problem there. They’re only taking 3 weeks which is awesome.

I did some homework last night and it looks like I’d just cut the barrel behind the pin and throw it away. I’d use a CMMG SBR barrel and OEM Gen1 muzzle brake.

The only open question is how to time the muzzle brake. I didn’t see any use of crush washers or anything.
Link Posted: 5/18/2020 12:51:07 PM EDT
[#22]
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Originally Posted By amediocreshooter:


Thanks. 

I’m familiar with Form 1s. No problem there. They’re only taking 3 weeks which is awesome. 

I did some homework last night and it looks like I’d just cut the barrel behind the pin and throw it away. I’d use a CMMG SBR barrel and OEM Gen1 muzzle brake. 

The only open question is how to time the muzzle brake. I didn’t see any use of crush washers or anything.
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Originally Posted By amediocreshooter:
Originally Posted By GrimesSU:


Gen 1 will have a black triggerpack. Gen 2 will be gray with a black hammer.


For SBR. Yes you can do it yourself. There's videos on youtube how to.

1.) E-file Form 1
2.) Engrave Receiver

Once you get your paperwork,

3.) For the barrel, you have options. 
-Buy a real p90 barrel (expensive)
-Buy a CMMG barrel
-Remove the original barrel to be cut down and threaded

You can either drill the pin out to unscrew the shroud, or you can simply hacksaw it behind the threads and it pulls right off.

4.) Same with the muzzle attachment, there options
-Gen 1 original flash hider
-Gen 2 AR15 type birdcage
-Thread adapter


Thanks. 

I’m familiar with Form 1s. No problem there. They’re only taking 3 weeks which is awesome. 

I did some homework last night and it looks like I’d just cut the barrel behind the pin and throw it away. I’d use a CMMG SBR barrel and OEM Gen1 muzzle brake. 

The only open question is how to time the muzzle brake. I didn’t see any use of crush washers or anything.


With my CMMG barrel and original brake, you don’t need a crush washer. There is a flat spot on the top of the brake that fits under the receiver and keeps correct orientation

https://i.imgur.com/LzKfX3v.jpg
Link Posted: 5/18/2020 7:45:10 PM EDT
[#23]
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Originally Posted By amediocreshooter:


Thanks. 

I’m familiar with Form 1s. No problem there. They’re only taking 3 weeks which is awesome. 

I did some homework last night and it looks like I’d just cut the barrel behind the pin and throw it away. I’d use a CMMG SBR barrel and OEM Gen1 muzzle brake. 

The only open question is how to time the muzzle brake. I didn’t see any use of crush washers or anything.
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Cut it about 2 inches behind the pin as the threads are pretty long.

Also, don't throw away the cut barrel. It's a high quality FN barrel.

Get it cut down and threaded for a spare. TROS does good work from what I hear, but he requires a copy of your form 1 to simply cut the barrel, which I don't agree with. I used Class 3 Machining, which is a industry member from Dallas here and he did great work.


Don't throw away the spring that goes in the front of the receiver around the barrel behind the flash hider. You re-use it.

Like it was said above, no timing. There's a flat that lines up to the receiver.

The barrel is sort of free-floating in the receiver and tightens into the flash hider. The spring in front behind the flash hider provides the forward pressure. So don't be alarmed at the small amount of rotational and rearward play.

You will need good fitting THIN 15mm and 19mm wrenches, and a 15mm crows foot (Snap-on part number: FCOM15A) to torque it. Torque is 30-35ft lbs.

Remember it is also reverse thread (Lefty tighty, Righty loosey), so you will need a torque wrench that clicks in the reverse direction as not all do.
Link Posted: 5/19/2020 3:37:15 PM EDT
[#24]
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Originally Posted By GrimesSU:


Cut it about 2 inches behind the pin as the threads are pretty long.

Also, don't throw away the cut barrel. It's a high quality FN barrel.

Get it cut down and threaded for a spare. TROS does good work from what I hear, but he requires a copy of your form 1 to simply cut the barrel, which I don't agree with. I used Class 3 Machining, which is a industry member from Dallas here and he did great work.


Don't throw away the spring that goes in the front of the receiver around the barrel behind the flash hider. You re-use it.

Like it was said above, no timing. There's a flat that lines up to the receiver.

The barrel is sort of free-floating in the receiver and tightens into the flash hider. The spring in front behind the flash hider provides the forward pressure. So don't be alarmed at the small amount of rotational and rearward play.

You will need good fitting THIN 15mm and 19mm wrenches, and a 15mm crows foot (Snap-on part number: FCOM15A) to torque it. Torque is 30-35ft lbs. 

Remember it is also reverse thread (Lefty tighty, Righty loosey), so you will need a torque wrench that clicks in the reverse direction as not all do.
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Sweet. This is all very helpful. Thank you so much!

I just bought one today. $1349 which seemed like a steal.

I am sending it off for engraving soon. I too have seen the bs about requiring a tax stamp and it’s exactly the reason I’m not going to be using any of those people. It’s weird. Any AR15 maker will cut your barrel no problem. All the guys that I’ve looked at for PS90 barrels want a copy of the stamp. I could see if they were installing it in the receiver but they aren’t. They’re just cutting a piece of steel.

ETA: I've been watching youtube videos to install a barrel and it seems pretty straightforward now that I have the gun in front of me. I get why you need a thin 15mm wrench (thanks for the part number for the crow foot. I will order for my torque wrench and yes it does click on reverse) but is the 19mm for the muzzle device when you torque the barrel down?

What's the word on rocksett on the barrel threads? I don't plan on suppressing this.
Link Posted: 5/19/2020 6:44:12 PM EDT
[#25]
@BWood

Can you answer my sling question, please?  Thanks!
Link Posted: 5/19/2020 7:08:43 PM EDT
[#26]
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Originally Posted By amediocreshooter:


Sweet. This is all very helpful. Thank you so much! 

I just bought one today. $1349 which seemed like a steal. 

I am sending it off for engraving soon. I too have seen the bs about requiring a tax stamp and it’s exactly the reason I’m not going to be using any of those people. It’s weird. Any AR15 maker will cut your barrel no problem. All the guys that I’ve looked at for PS90 barrels want a copy of the stamp. I could see if they were installing it in the receiver but they aren’t. They’re just cutting a piece of steel.

ETA: I've been watching youtube videos to install a barrel and it seems pretty straightforward now that I have the gun in front of me. I get why you need a thin 15mm wrench (thanks for the part number for the crow foot. I will order for my torque wrench and yes it does click on reverse) but is the 19mm for the muzzle device when you torque the barrel down? 

What's the word on rocksett on the barrel threads? I don't plan on suppressing this.
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Yes, the 19mm is to hold the muzzle device.

Rocksett isn't needed if it is properly torqued. Plus because it is reverse threaded, there's no way it was loosen under firing unless maybe it was only finger tight. FN did reverse thread for that reason.
Link Posted: 5/19/2020 8:16:37 PM EDT
[#27]
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Originally Posted By GrimesSU:


Yes, the 19mm is to hold the muzzle device.

Rocksett isn't needed if it is properly torqued. Plus because it is reverse threaded, there's no way it was loosen under firing unless maybe it was only finger tight. FN did reverse thread for that reason.
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Thanks so much for your time answering my questions. You made me feel a lot more confident about swapping this barrel out. I'll get pics up when the Eform 1 comes back!

Link Posted: 5/19/2020 10:17:40 PM EDT
[#28]
Link Posted: 5/20/2020 6:30:48 AM EDT
[#29]
Can anyone tell me about 5.7 ammo?

Does the American Eagle stuff work in PS90s? What about SS195LF?


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Originally Posted By PursuitSS:
Yes, Mark McWillis of TROS requires a copy of your approved Form 1 or Form 4.

HIS business, his rules. He’s just trying to make sure the LAW is being followed. I don’t think he’s losing sleep over the loss of a few jobs. He has probably cut more PS90 barrels than everyone else combined. He’s cut OVER 1,000 to date!

Comparing the Factory barrel on our P90 to one he cut down on one of our PS90’s you can’t tell the difference.
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Nah bro. It’s MY money and my privacy, so they are my rules. As you said, he won’t miss my business so it sounds like me going elsewhere is the best choice for both parties.
Link Posted: 5/20/2020 7:19:23 AM EDT
[#30]
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Quoted:


Yes, Mark McWillis of TROS requires a copy of your approved Form 1 or Form 4.

HIS business, his rules. He’s just trying to make sure the LAW is being followed. I don’t think he’s losing sleep over the loss of a few jobs. He has probably cut more PS90 barrels than everyone else combined. He’s cut OVER 1,000 to date!

Comparing the Factory barrel on our P90 to one he cut down on one of our PS90’s you can’t tell the difference.
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Quoted:


Yes, Mark McWillis of TROS requires a copy of your approved Form 1 or Form 4.

HIS business, his rules. He’s just trying to make sure the LAW is being followed. I don’t think he’s losing sleep over the loss of a few jobs. He has probably cut more PS90 barrels than everyone else combined. He’s cut OVER 1,000 to date!

Comparing the Factory barrel on our P90 to one he cut down on one of our PS90’s you can’t tell the difference.


I understand for a Form 4 or a Form 1 with a receiver still attached, but it is quite stupid for a bare barrel.

He's the only one I know that requires it for a blank barrel.

What "LAW" is he "following" requiring one for a blank barrel?


And I'm sure it's more than a few lost jobs doing so.


Originally Posted By amediocreshooter:
Can anyone tell me about 5.7 ammo? 

Does the American Eagle stuff work in PS90s? What about SS195LF?


I've only used SS197 and SS198 since it's easy to get. Not sure SS195 is still in production.

I've heard American Eagle is hit or miss. The problem being the rounds being pushed back into the casing when loading.
Link Posted: 5/20/2020 9:03:57 AM EDT
[#31]
Have had excellent luck w/ AE in my AR 57 upper.
Link Posted: 5/20/2020 10:20:33 AM EDT
[#32]
Link Posted: 5/20/2020 10:57:18 AM EDT
[#33]
Link Posted: 5/20/2020 12:15:21 PM EDT
[#34]
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Quoted:
And no, there's no law requiring it.
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Quoted:
And no, there's no law requiring it.
This.

I've been through those audits both for having an S.O.T. and for an Explosives License. I can tell you they're NO FUN!
Right but there's nothing to audit for a barrel. Nobody logs barrels.

Even if someone shipped him a barreled receiver, the only audit trail would be the receiver's A&D entry.

There's no requirement to record the scope of work performed, and it doesn't become a SBR until it goes back into the stock.
Link Posted: 5/20/2020 12:37:10 PM EDT
[#35]
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Originally Posted By KitBuilder:
This.

Right but there's nothing to audit for a barrel. Nobody logs barrels. 

Even if someone shipped him a barreled receiver, the only audit trail would be the receiver's A&D entry. 

There's no requirement to record the scope of work performed, and it doesn't become a SBR until it goes back into the stock.
View Quote


It’s so easy to fake a Form 1 in photoshop, and without the receiver how does he know the Form 1 (if it’s real) is even for the firearm that will eventually wear the barrel he’s cutting?

I don’t even carry my tax stamps with me when I use my NFA stuff. I’m certainly not going to mail a copy of a form to some boot licker who wants to make sure I’m following an unconstitutional law.
Link Posted: 5/20/2020 12:56:11 PM EDT
[#36]
Link Posted: 5/20/2020 12:58:22 PM EDT
[#37]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
If you have a 10.4" barrel installed in a PS90 receiver it damn well better be registered as an SBR!
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It cannot be a SBR without a stock present.
Link Posted: 5/20/2020 12:59:10 PM EDT
[#38]
Link Posted: 5/20/2020 1:01:33 PM EDT
[#39]
Link Posted: 5/20/2020 1:08:36 PM EDT
[#40]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
BULLSHIT!
An analogy would be an 10.5" AR-15 rifle assembled without a stock, it's an SBR!
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If there's no stock it's not a SBR.
It's part of the "rifle" definition.

The AR meets the pistol definition without a stock, while the PS90 does not (because it cannot fire).

AR pistol made from rifle = SBR.
This doesn't apply to the PS90.

In most configurations...
There must (at least) be a stock with no other lawful use within the possessor's control in order to charge them with constructive possession of a SBR.

Trust me. I've worked for SOTs and feds.
Link Posted: 5/20/2020 1:18:31 PM EDT
[#41]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By PursuitSS:


BULLSHIT!

An analogy would be an 10.5” AR-15 rifle assembled without a stock, it’s an SBR!
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Originally Posted By PursuitSS:
Originally Posted By KitBuilder:

It cannot be a SBR without a stock present.


BULLSHIT!

An analogy would be an 10.5” AR-15 rifle assembled without a stock, it’s an SBR!

Nope. You’re wrong. Educate yourself.
Link Posted: 5/20/2020 1:22:22 PM EDT
[#42]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By PursuitSS:


So you’re suggesting forging a Federal document?
View Quote


removed.
Link Posted: 5/20/2020 1:29:44 PM EDT
[#43]
Can we get back on topic? From what I can tell - There are boot licking companies and their Internet forum buddies who ask to see a copy of a Form 1 to cut a piece of steel. There are also companies who sell barrels or cut them without requiring proof that you or someone has a Form 1’d PS90.

I will be installing a CMMG barrel and muzzle device but will send my PS90 barrel in for cutting as a spare.

The only open item seems to be ammo. It’s hard to find, and it looks like AE isn’t the best choice for PS90s.
Link Posted: 5/20/2020 2:01:39 PM EDT
[#44]
Link Posted: 5/20/2020 2:02:52 PM EDT
[#45]
Link Posted: 5/20/2020 2:04:14 PM EDT
[#46]
Link Posted: 5/20/2020 2:44:55 PM EDT
[#47]
Off topic, CC violations, too much to sort through from two similar threads and reports.  AeroE
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