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Posted: 4/4/2019 5:09:10 PM EDT
MAC via Instagram just posted that Thales won’t be offering their AUG update on the civilian market. Can anyone confirm that this is true? If it is true, I’m greatly disappointed.
Link Posted: 4/4/2019 5:13:18 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/4/2019 5:14:27 PM EDT by burkeva]
Snip

Australian military supplier drops US gun sale

By RORY CALLINAN

MARCH 29, 2019

The arms company making the Australian military’s standard issue assault rifle has dropped plans to sell a semiautomatic version to civilians in the United States.

French company Thales, through its New South Wales-based Lithgow Arms plant had been advertising semiautomatic version of the military issue F-90 Steyr rifle for sale in the United States civilian market.

The assault style rifle called the Atrax was almost identical to the F-90 Lithgow arms’ standard issue firearm it makes for the Australian Defence Forces.

The main difference was that the Atrax was configured to fire semiautomatic not automatic.

US gun shop websites have been advertising the Atrax as due to be released in the US civilian market soon and are promoting the rifle as having had a range of 400m, being sold with a high capacity magazine and was able to be broken down to fit in a backpack.

But today a Thales spokesman said the company had dropped plans to sell any of the rifles to civilian markets on ethical grounds.

He declined to say when the decision was made.

The spokesman said while the proposal to sell the Atrax had been made two years ago, no rifles had been sold.

“No F-90 variants have been sold to non-government/civilian users either directly or through distributors,’’ he said.

“Lithgow Arms is Australia’s sovereign industrial capability in small arms design and development and will only sell semiautomatic and automatic rifles to military and law enforcement agencies,’’ it said.

“Our immediate focus is to deliver all F90/EF88 rifles to the ADF under Land 125. Advertisements for the Atrax are still visible on some US based Firearms distributors including major gun supplier Brownells which described the weapon as “the pinnacle of weapons design and performance” and quoted a price of $1999.99.

Snip
Link Posted: 4/4/2019 5:16:54 PM EDT
Dumb move on their part
Link Posted: 4/4/2019 5:21:13 PM EDT
Super disappointed by this. Maybe Styer can take advantage of the lack of competition.....
Link Posted: 4/4/2019 5:39:28 PM EDT
That's to bad. Thales brought a post sample to the Bullpup Shoot a couple years ago. I really liked it.
Link Posted: 4/4/2019 5:56:26 PM EDT
That's disappointing.
Link Posted: 4/4/2019 6:00:00 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By maleante:
That's disappointing.
View Quote
Totally blows.
Link Posted: 4/4/2019 6:54:10 PM EDT
Their company, their choice.

Capitalism will fix this one way or another.
Link Posted: 4/4/2019 7:49:18 PM EDT
Their company their choice and they should not be allowed to sell guns to anyone here if they won't sell to civilians. If I had my way an EO would already be written
Link Posted: 4/4/2019 8:34:07 PM EDT
I think their 922r plans fell through so it wasn’t happening anyways and this is for pr brownie points if true.
Link Posted: 4/4/2019 8:43:15 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Kali_Refugee:
I think their 922r plans fell through so it wasn’t happening anyways and this is for pr brownie points if true.
View Quote
Was going to post this. I don’t think this thing was ever coming either way, and I’d assume that was due to importation problems. It’s just expedient to drop out now when it’s regionally politically expedient.
Link Posted: 4/4/2019 9:42:55 PM EDT
Yeah this is them taking the easy way out.

They couldn’t line up US manufacturing for yeeears.
Link Posted: 4/5/2019 2:22:49 AM EDT
Don’t worry the gun is junk and has issues
Link Posted: 4/5/2019 7:41:08 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By nmichlig:
Don’t worry the gun is junk and has issues
View Quote
Please tell us more.......
Link Posted: 4/5/2019 1:27:44 PM EDT
Well, it sucks for the people who really wanted this, but it's for the best if our money doesn't go to these countries.
Link Posted: 4/5/2019 3:45:59 PM EDT
More money i’ll give to Steyr or B&T. Companies that actually care about us and bring us cool stuff.
Link Posted: 4/6/2019 7:10:21 PM EDT
Well that sucks.
Link Posted: 4/6/2019 8:36:49 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By chapperjoe:
Their company, their choice.

Capitalism will fix this one way or another.
View Quote
You dream, general.
Link Posted: 4/7/2019 12:15:01 PM EDT
This is incredibly disappointing. I'd waited on the Atrax as my first bullpup since late 16 or 17 when it was first announced, now I'm glad I went ahead and snagged a Steyr this year. I guess I need to hit the gym more since the one pound lighter koala AUG is permanently off the table.

For the record, I love this thing so far.
Link Posted: 4/7/2019 2:50:51 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By nmichlig:
Don't worry the gun is junk and has issues
View Quote
So what's wrong with it?
Link Posted: 4/7/2019 4:23:24 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By burkeva:
Snip

Australian military supplier drops US gun sale

By RORY CALLINAN

MARCH 29, 2019

The arms company making the Australian military's standard issue assault rifle has dropped plans to sell a semiautomatic version to civilians in the United States.

French company Thales, through its New South Wales-based Lithgow Arms plant had been advertising semiautomatic version of the military issue F-90 Steyr rifle for sale in the United States civilian market.

The assault style rifle called the Atrax was almost identical to the F-90 Lithgow arms' standard issue firearm it makes for the Australian Defence Forces.

The main difference was that the Atrax was configured to fire semiautomatic not automatic.

US gun shop websites have been advertising the Atrax as due to be released in the US civilian market soon and are promoting the rifle as having had a range of 400m, being sold with a high capacity magazine and was able to be broken down to fit in a backpack.

But today a Thales spokesman said the company had dropped plans to sell any of the rifles to civilian markets on ethical grounds.

He declined to say when the decision was made.

The spokesman said while the proposal to sell the Atrax had been made two years ago, no rifles had been sold.

"No F-90 variants have been sold to non-government/civilian users either directly or through distributors,'' he said.

"Lithgow Arms is Australia's sovereign industrial capability in small arms design and development and will only sell semiautomatic and automatic rifles to military and law enforcement agencies,'' it said.

"Our immediate focus is to deliver all F90/EF88 rifles to the ADF under Land 125. Advertisements for the Atrax are still visible on some US based Firearms distributors including major gun supplier Brownells which described the weapon as "the pinnacle of weapons design and performance" and quoted a price of $1999.99.

Snip
View Quote
'...will only sell semiautomatic and automatic rifles to military and law enforcement agencies,'' it said.'

I saw a movie where only the police and .gov had guns -
It was called "Schindler's List"
Link Posted: 4/8/2019 7:46:11 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By KitBuilder:
So what's wrong with it?
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By KitBuilder:
Originally Posted By nmichlig:
Don't worry the gun is junk and has issues
So what's wrong with it?
That kid ain’t coming back. He dropped that snark bomb and then rolled out to pollute other threads.
Link Posted: 4/8/2019 10:47:48 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By burkeva:
That kid ain't coming back. He dropped that snark bomb and then rolled out to pollute other threads.
View Quote
Yeah that's what I figured.
I haven't heard of any issues with the product.
Link Posted: 4/8/2019 10:53:36 AM EDT
yeah, it would have happened already. they probably figure the next administration would ban it anyway. and in the next couple years they would probably sell about 1200 of them, maybe...

I always wondered why Americans bought so few exotic guns back in the day before 1989 like H&K, FNC, Daewoo, etc... but seeing how they overwhelming prefer ARs these days despite a smorgasbord of overseas guns, I no longer wonder.
Link Posted: 4/8/2019 10:54:28 AM EDT
Good, now I won't have to buy one
Link Posted: 4/8/2019 12:19:26 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By burkeva:
Super disappointed by this. Maybe Styer can take advantage of the lack of competition.....
View Quote
They'll probably raise prices.
Link Posted: 4/9/2019 1:02:45 PM EDT
Brownells just called me to say all pre-orders are canceled!
Link Posted: 4/9/2019 6:47:07 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Quake_Guy:
yeah, it would have happened already. they probably figure the next administration would ban it anyway. and in the next couple years they would probably sell about 1200 of them, maybe...

I always wondered why Americans bought so few exotic guns back in the day before 1989 like H&K, FNC, Daewoo, etc... but seeing how they overwhelming prefer ARs these days despite a smorgasbord of overseas guns, I no longer wonder.
View Quote
Having lived through those days as a consumer with cash to spend, a lot of it has to do with price. Back in the 80s you could get a Colt's AR-15 for ~$450 or so and a Mini-14 for a bit less, it was hard to justify spending ~$800+ for the others. I bought an HK-91 for about $800 in 1987 and sold it shortly after when I realized that the accessories were stupid expensive. Magazines were ~$30-50 each, the freaking cleaning kit (which now sells for about $5 surplus) was $25 new. Then you have the fact that other than HK, none of the other brands really advertised and were more boutique guns than anything. We look at those prices today and shrug, but consider that in 1987, that $800 HK-91A2 would cost ~$1670 in current dollars, and a $30 magazine would be ~$63.

In the end, the selection was pretty exotic, and the stuff was available, but it became a simple issue of cost, lack of the manufacturers' advertising and educating the public, and the mindset that "those guns" were the purview of survivalists and wannabes.

If you can find it, in 1982 Guns and Ammo released a publication called "Assault Rifles: The New Breed of Sporting Arm". I found a copy on eBay:

Guns and Ammo's Assult Rifles: The New Breed of Sporting Arm"
Link Posted: 4/9/2019 6:51:00 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/9/2019 7:25:49 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Aimless:
I bet NZ pressured them to cease civilian sales to continue the contract with NZ.
View Quote
That thought did come to mind...
Link Posted: 4/9/2019 7:27:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/9/2019 7:28:44 PM EDT by Leonitus]
Oops.....double tap
Link Posted: 4/9/2019 8:38:04 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Aimless:
I bet NZ pressured them to cease civilian sales to continue the contract with NZ.
View Quote
Didn’t NZ wholesale switch to LMT mrp and MWS based rifles, dropping the Austeyr?
Link Posted: 4/9/2019 8:54:31 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Kali_Refugee:
I think their 922r plans fell through so it wasn’t happening anyways and this is for pr brownie points if true.
View Quote
Dollars to doughnuts it was the mosque shooting that caused this change. Just my opinion.
Link Posted: 4/9/2019 10:40:15 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By DerekCB:

Dollars to doughnuts it was the mosque shooting that caused this change. Just my opinion.
View Quote
If they hadn’t of hit the YouTube circuit hard 2 years ago (MAC IVlotsof8safteewards, and many others) for publicity hinting at eminent release then went dark I’d agree. But 922r compliance is a bitch lots of pieces to get in order though with a domestic manufacturer making compliance parts to spec and also at a reasonable price. Heck even when it does work it can suddenly fall to shit like the AUG A3 line and Sabre defense being raided by the atf then ceasing to exist. Plus I seem to recall someone saying months ago their perspective US partner fell through could be wrong on that.

I guess we will probably never know diffinitively either way.
Link Posted: 4/9/2019 11:30:03 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Kali_Refugee:
I think their 922r plans fell through so it wasn't happening anyways and this is for pr brownie points if true.
View Quote
I support this theory.
Already vaporware prior to the event in NZ.
Link Posted: 4/9/2019 11:33:35 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By JoshNC:
Didn't NZ wholesale switch to LMT mrp and MWS based rifles, dropping the Austeyr?
View Quote
Yes they did. NZ dropped the F88 Austeyr and AFAIK never had any plan to adopt the F90.
Link Posted: 4/10/2019 12:38:49 AM EDT
@manticore_arms

Any insight on this?
Link Posted: 4/10/2019 11:22:15 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By KitBuilder:
So what's wrong with it?
View Quote
Dropping the QD barrel to shave weight on a perfectly balanced rifle is pretty stupid. The AUG has the best QD game around. That decision killed my interest. Actual workmanship and QC may be fantastic for all I know.
Link Posted: 4/10/2019 12:01:08 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By crazymoose:
Dropping the QD barrel to shave weight on a perfectly balanced rifle is pretty stupid.
View Quote
I disagree. Adding those rails adds weight, and the AUG needs more rails (unless you only shoot in the daytime) and less weight (since it's heavier than an M4A1). They made it lighter than a non-railed AUG, yet gave it enough rail space to be a modern military weapon. Having a QD barrel is nice, but not necessary for anything except a LMG. One can easily remove the barrel assembly from the stock assembly and clean it that way. No big deal.
Link Posted: 4/10/2019 12:08:19 PM EDT
The amount of rail space to Barbie doll up a gun isn't what makes a firearm "modern"
Link Posted: 4/10/2019 12:35:22 PM EDT
It's just one variable. If you don't have enough rail space to mount the needed accessories, then it cannot compete with other modern options.
Link Posted: 4/10/2019 1:04:25 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By KitBuilder:
I disagree. Adding those rails adds weight, and the AUG needs more rails (unless you only shoot in the daytime) and less weight (since it's heavier than an M4A1). They made it lighter than a non-railed AUG, yet gave it enough rail space to be a modern military weapon. Having a QD barrel is nice, but not necessary for anything except a LMG. One can easily remove the barrel assembly from the stock assembly and clean it that way. No big deal.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By KitBuilder:
Originally Posted By crazymoose:
Dropping the QD barrel to shave weight on a perfectly balanced rifle is pretty stupid.
I disagree. Adding those rails adds weight, and the AUG needs more rails (unless you only shoot in the daytime) and less weight (since it's heavier than an M4A1). They made it lighter than a non-railed AUG, yet gave it enough rail space to be a modern military weapon. Having a QD barrel is nice, but not necessary for anything except a LMG. One can easily remove the barrel assembly from the stock assembly and clean it that way. No big deal.
Can anyone who uses multiple barrels chime in on what the POI shift is when you switch them? Not trying to derail but since it came up.
Link Posted: 4/10/2019 1:32:37 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/10/2019 10:08:13 PM EDT by FNBrowning]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By kfeltenberger:

Having lived through those days as a consumer with cash to spend, a lot of it has to do with price. Back in the 80s you could get a Colt's AR-15 for ~$450 or so and a Mini-14 for a bit less, it was hard to justify spending ~$800+ for the others. I bought an HK-91 for about $800 in 1987 and sold it shortly after when I realized that the accessories were stupid expensive. Magazines were ~$30-50 each, the freaking cleaning kit (which now sells for about $5 surplus) was $25 new. Then you have the fact that other than HK, none of the other brands really advertised and were more boutique guns than anything. We look at those prices today and shrug, but consider that in 1987, that $800 HK-91A2 would cost ~$1670 in current dollars, and a $30 magazine would be ~$63.

In the end, the selection was pretty exotic, and the stuff was available, but it became a simple issue of cost, lack of the manufacturers' advertising and educating the public, and the mindset that "those guns" were the purview of survivalists and wannabes.

If you can find it, in 1982 Guns and Ammo released a publication called "Assault Rifles: The New Breed of Sporting Arm". I found a copy on eBay:

Guns and Ammo's Assult Rifles: The New Breed of Sporting Arm"
View Quote
'IN' to tag this; I lived through those days also, and I still have the "Assault Rifes" by Guns & Ammo Magazine that I bought new off the newsstand. I was poor at the time, and that mag was my wish book.
BTW: the title of the 1982 publication puts the firearms magazine staff writers as the authors of the "assault rifle" label and not the later political opportunists as is always claimed. . . .

I bought my Mini-14 at Gemco because I was too poor to afford a Colt. I'm going to see if I have the receipt, because I don't remember it as just a "bit less" than the Colt, I remember it as significantly less. We'll see.
ETA: Found the receipt. Nov. 1983 $249.97. As I said, significantly less than Colt
Link Posted: 4/10/2019 1:36:46 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By KitBuilder:

I disagree. Adding those rails adds weight, and the AUG needs more rails (unless you only shoot in the daytime) and less weight (since it's heavier than an M4A1). They made it lighter than a non-railed AUG, yet gave it enough rail space to be a modern military weapon. Having a QD barrel is nice, but not necessary for anything except a LMG. One can easily remove the barrel assembly from the stock assembly and clean it that way. No big deal.
View Quote
I probably should have phrased my criticism more narrowly.

For a military weapon, sure, you need more rails than a mirror on Mötley Crüe's tour bus. But as a civilian who doesn't need IR lasers and all of that shit, I'm fine with either the 2:00 rail for a white light or one of the bolt on rails.
Link Posted: 4/10/2019 3:25:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/10/2019 3:26:00 PM EDT by Manticore_Arms]
Link Posted: 4/10/2019 3:45:09 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By MOS68W:

Can anyone who uses multiple barrels chime in on what the POI shift is when you switch them? Not trying to derail but since it came up.
View Quote
I have never swapped differing barrels of the same length into the same receiver in a test, but I have swapped different length barrels into the same receiver without rezeroing the otic - just to see what happens.

I was at a 100 yard indoor range zeroing a 16" gun. With the 18" barrel, it was still on target but way off the poi/poa of the 16". The 20" was off the paper, and the 24" hit the concrete wall of the shooting tube... I'd assume that EVERY barrel will behave differently, the AUG's awesome return to zero is solely predicated upon using the same barrel in the same receiver.

I've never thought of the AUG as a gun where you swap from a 16" to a 20" barrel on the fly. To me, the QD barrels are great for concealibility, compactness, and cleaning.
Link Posted: 4/10/2019 3:51:50 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Manticore_Arms:
Maybe we will crank out a few fixed barrel receivers that can plug into an AUG stock someday, LOL....
View Quote
Thanks for the behind the scenes look. Build a fixed barrel AUG receiver THAT DOESN'T COST $1000 and you'll make a lot of people happy.
Link Posted: 4/10/2019 3:58:30 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By KitBuilder:
It's just one variable. If you don't have enough rail space to mount the needed accessories, then it cannot compete with other modern options.
View Quote
That's what I don't get. The F90 has pretty exactly the same amount of rail space as an AUG M1 with a long rail
Link Posted: 4/10/2019 4:04:26 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By mcantu:
That's what I don't get. The F90 has pretty exactly the same amount of rail space as an AUG M1 with a long rail
View Quote
But the F90 has more forward rails (for lights and lasers) and weighs less.
Link Posted: 4/10/2019 4:04:47 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By mcantu:

That's what I don't get. The F90 has pretty exactly the same amount of rail space as an AUG M1 with a long rail
View Quote
It had side rails 90' to the top rail. Steyr doesn't offer that.
Link Posted: 4/10/2019 4:18:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/10/2019 4:41:10 PM EDT by mcantu]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By KitBuilder:

But the F90 has more forward rails (for lights and lasers) and weighs less.
View Quote
The weight loss doesn't seems very substantial considering all the changes.

These are the numbers I've pulled together (I can't find a weight for an M1 with optic) and I'm using 14" barrels to keep the comparison as apples to apples as possible

AUG A1, 14" barrel w/optic...7.1 lbs
F90/ATRAX, 14" barrel,no optic...6.9 lbs
M4A1, 14.5" barrel, w/quad rail, no optic...7.2 lbs

And the reason they have the forward rails is that they ditched the vfg in order to have a more integrated grenade launcher. If you want a vfg, you have to attach it to the new front rail (and it won't be as ergonomic as the original)

On the AUG most of the weight is in the receiver and bolt carrier. I wonder how hard it would be for Steyr to skeletonize the receiver some to lose half a pound or so?
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